RE: [swinog] future of dsl
At the following link can some more infomations about the plans and timetables of Swisscom with VDSL be found. (sorry, only in german) http://www.tschan.ch/swinog/Triple_Play_Netzstruktur_und_Architektur.pdf Regards David --- |I doubt it would be VDSL - more likely VDSL2. Which gives them a very |limited footprint. Distances with VDSL2 are very limited. Indeed. There was a short talk 2 months ago by Swisscom, explaining their plan to deploy VDSL2, which actually implies moving the exchanges closer to the users, and their roadmap for coverage in the big cities. The presentation is available here: http://www.giti.ch/documents/Presentation_3PInfra.pdf ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: R: [swinog] future of dsl
> IMHO there is no good solution to solve those issues with volume based > services. > You can just be generous to your customers like we do. Maybe we will hear > soon > how sunrise handles such cases on their ADSL services with dynamic IPs ;-) There are solutions, like force the user to use a socks 4/5 proxy you would provide and do the accounting on it. however, the user needs some knowledge... to configure its softwares.. and not all applications support that (or ignore the global Windows settings).. Pascal smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: R: [swinog] future of dsl
Hi, Cool. So, as a Networker or Sysadmin, it's three steps: 1. Offer customers volume based services 2. Install scripts to ping around randomly 3. Make lots of $$$ fast Sorry, gotta go talk to my boss... We've (ImproWare) got also a low entry Cablemodem product, which is volume based. You get the speed of 768/128 and 300MB MB Traffic included for 9.90.- Although we filter DOS-attacks and don't count ICMP traffic and all router advertisments etc, there is always the possibilty to get (unwanted) UDP traffic from the net. There is no real solution here, but if a customer detects such an attack we just delete those incidents and reassign the Megabytes. But remember there are also customers with open WLANs ... IMHO there is no good solution to solve those issues with volume based services. You can just be generous to your customers like we do. Maybe we will hear soon how sunrise handles such cases on their ADSL services with dynamic IPs ;-) Martin Martin Blapp, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- ImproWare AG, UNIXSP & ISP, Zurlindenstrasse 29, 4133 Pratteln, CH Phone: +41 61 826 93 00 Fax: +41 61 826 93 01 PGP: PGP Fingerprint: B434 53FC C87C FE7B 0A18 B84C 8686 EF22 D300 551E -- ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
Ueli Heuer wrote: > On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:19 +0200 "Frei Stefan" > > >>1.) >>If a given phoneline (be it analog or ISDN) is registered for ADSL >>use, you can successfully run whatever ADSL account on it. >> >>2.) >>The bandwith you get is based on the bandwith bought for that >>specific phoneline. >> >>3.) >>The IP addresses you get are based on the account used for logging in. > > > this is working at the moment but swisscom will block this in the near > future :( Depending on technology used; "old" BBCS, same behaviour, for "new" BBCS services this will change. > > >>Based on my experiance/experiment (2 years ago), your idea would work >>with the above limitations. >> >>If someone has more insight on how this works in the backbone, >>I would be interessted to learn about. http://www.swinog.ch/meetings/swinog3/BBCS_Swinog.ppt Quite outdated, but the basics of todays BBCS are still the same. > > > you'll find design cases in the Ciscopress book [1] or on the cisco > homepage. you should search for VPDN solutions it's L2TP tunneling, VPDN only works in LAN environments Guido ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:19:03 +0200 Ueli Heuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [1] I have to look at home for the title of this book. I'll > post it later. The title of the book is: "Design and Implementation of DSL-Based Access Solutions" Ciscopress, ISBN 1-58705-021-8 http://www.ciscopress.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=1587050218&rl=1 -- I'm sorry, Party-bug in the Aloha protocol. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: R: [swinog] future of dsl
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Also, what traffic does count? All traffic? Cool, ruin your All traffic, since at the point where Swisscom is measuring, they actually already see L2TP traffic. And yes, above argument is valid for all volume based charging... Cool. So, as a Networker or Sysadmin, it's three steps: 1. Offer customers volume based services 2. Install scripts to ping around randomly 3. Make lots of $$$ fast Sorry, gotta go talk to my boss... CU, Venty ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
Folken wrote: On Fri July 22 2005 12.52, Glogger Steven wrote: hi olivier Idea: Let's say I have a "standard" (600/100) flatrate adsl account from ISP A at home, and the Sunrise 150 flex somewhere else (holiday house, chalet, grandparents, etc.). Will it still work if I just configure the sunrise adsl line with the login/pw information of ISP A ? (assuming I turn off the router at home). No need to turn off the router in one place. I had a case where a person got an old router from a third party.. the credidentials of the 3rd party where still in the router. Connected it and logged in, while the 3rd party was connected with the same account. (This had been running for about 3/4 of a year, until i discovered it.) This depends on the configuration at the ISP. Multiple logins at the same time may be allowed or not. If a fixed IP address is associated with this login you'll get troubles anyway, but that's another story. Marco -- Init Seven AG - www.init7.net PGP: 0x0B431D6B - 0BCA FD08 2859 FF1A 4B42 29BD DD91 3A67 0B43 1D6B ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
On Fri July 22 2005 12.52, Glogger Steven wrote: > hi olivier > > > Idea: Let's say I have a "standard" (600/100) flatrate adsl > > account from ISP A at home, and the Sunrise 150 flex > > somewhere else (holiday house, chalet, grandparents, etc.). > > > > > > Will it still work if I just configure the sunrise adsl line > > with the login/pw information of ISP A ? (assuming I turn > > off the router at home). No need to turn off the router in one place. I had a case where a person got an old router from a third party.. the credidentials of the 3rd party where still in the router. Connected it and logged in, while the 3rd party was connected with the same account. (This had been running for about 3/4 of a year, until i discovered it.) greetings, - Folken ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: R: [swinog] future of dsl
> Also, what traffic does count? All traffic? Cool, ruin your All traffic, since at the point where Swisscom is measuring, they actually already see L2TP traffic. And yes, above argument is valid for all volume based charging... Cheers, Markus ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
Kuster, Christian schrieb: [about updates, horrible TOFU-Quoting because of high suck-level removed] Another argument not to use windoze... So, you say you never update your Linux- and/or Unix-Systems? Good luck then. I think Windowsupdate is great, but thats more or less the only thing that I find good about Windows though. Oh and some games like Freelancer. =:-) CU, Venty ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: R: [swinog] future of dsl
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: The different is with analog Telephone Line you pay every Minute, if you are in the Internet... This you can have better on control. But The traffic. I think is not very easy... I make now a test at home... I have installed a counter on my PC and I'm looking, how mach of traffic the computer makes, without me... You must look Antivirus make every month min. 5-10 mb traffic. Windows Updates.. horror... Also, what traffic does count? All traffic? Cool, ruin your neighbour by ping-flooding him with ping -f -s 2048 or something. Or just IP? Hmm, well, SYN-Flood or UDP something. If it's only IP, there is an implementation of IP over ICMP called "ptunnel" which can be found here: http://www.cs.uit.no/~daniels/PingTunnel/ So what? I have almost no traffic whatsoever. And with that low bandwidth I don't care about tunneling all traffic to some proxy somewhere. The only problem for some users is to be able to use a suitable machine as a proxy but this could be whole new service to sell. =:-) CU, Venty ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] future of dsl
re, On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 13:04 +0200, Erich Hohermuth wrote: > The new model is called open pipe and the speedprofile is allocated via > phonenumber and domain. > Swisscom counts all traffic inkl. L2TP header etc. via policy-map and the isp > has to pay per Gbyte. Ok, thanks to you, Steven and Stefan for infos! So the cheapest way to go online @ a secondary residence is still to find someone nice around with a "real" flatrate adsl line and who lets you add a (well configured) WLAN device against a few bottles of good wine :) Olivier PS: 10Mbit/1Mbit ADSL for 30EUR/Mt, that's now "standard" in France, cf. http://adsl.free.fr/ or even 20Mbit downstream if you're lucky... flatrate of course./me would like a swiss freebox! :-) ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:19 +0200 "Frei Stefan" > 1.) > If a given phoneline (be it analog or ISDN) is registered for ADSL > use, you can successfully run whatever ADSL account on it. > > 2.) > The bandwith you get is based on the bandwith bought for that > specific phoneline. > > 3.) > The IP addresses you get are based on the account used for logging in. this is working at the moment but swisscom will block this in the near future :( > Based on my experiance/experiment (2 years ago), your idea would work > with the above limitations. > > If someone has more insight on how this works in the backbone, > I would be interessted to learn about. you'll find design cases in the Ciscopress book [1] or on the cisco homepage. you should search for VPDN solutions Ueli [1] I have to look at home for the title of this book. I'll post it later. -- I'm sorry, I'd love to help you -- it's just that the Boss won't let me near the computer. ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] future of dsl
Hi, > Will it still work if I just configure the sunrise adsl line with > the login/pw information of ISP A ? (assuming I turn off the router > at home). > > I guess it would work (but of course still at 150/50), but what > about the 20MB limitation? The new model is called open pipe and the speedprofile is allocated via phonenumber and domain. > Who is doing the accounting work: > Swisscom or Sunrise, or both? Swisscom counts all traffic inkl. L2TP header etc. via policy-map and the isp has to pay per Gbyte. Regards Erich ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] future of dsl
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:34:18 +0200, Olivier Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 11:59 +0200, Glogger Steven wrote: ok, for the speed: it's 3 times faster .. (ow..is that slow -,)) but is it really cheaper? [...] Idea: Let's say I have a "standard" (600/100) flatrate adsl account from ISP A at home, and the Sunrise 150 flex somewhere else (holiday house, chalet, grandparents, etc.). Will it still work if I just configure the sunrise adsl line with the login/pw information of ISP A ? (assuming I turn off the router at home). I guess it would work (but of course still at 150/50), but what about the 20MB limitation? Who is doing the accounting work: Swisscom or Sunrise, or both? Oliver, I tested this about two years ago. I have two ADSL lines at home served by different providers (one analog, one ISDN, both with fixed IPs). I did some permutations, connecting different lines (analog/ISDN) with the different account credentials, e.g. connecting line A with account from line B and so on). I then then expanded the experiment with ADSL lines of friends in other parts of Switzerland. My observations was as follows: 1.) If a given phoneline (be it analog or ISDN) is registered for ADSL use, you can successfully run whatever ADSL account on it. 2.) The bandwith you get is based on the bandwith bought for that specific phoneline. 3.) The IP addresses you get are based on the account used for logging in. Based on my experiance/experiment (2 years ago), your idea would work with the above limitations. If someone has more insight on how this works in the backbone, I would be interessted to learn about. Cheers Stefan Frei -- Stefan Frei, Dipl.El.Ing.ETH Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Office: ETZ G60.1 Computer Engineering and Networks Lab (TIK) Fon: +41 44 632-7015ETH Zentrum / Gloriastrasse 35 / CH-8092 Zurich Fax: +41 44 632-1035 ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
AW: AW: [swinog] future of dsl
hi olivier > Idea: Let's say I have a "standard" (600/100) flatrate adsl > account from ISP A at home, and the Sunrise 150 flex > somewhere else (holiday house, chalet, grandparents, etc.). > Will it still work if I just configure the sunrise adsl line > with the login/pw information of ISP A ? (assuming I turn > off the router at home). i suppose swisscom will change that in the near future. so, don't do such a thing ,-) > I guess it would work (but of course still at 150/50), but > what about the 20MB limitation? Who is doing the accounting work: > Swisscom or Sunrise, or both? swisscom does some per-ISP accounting - because they deliver the whole traffic to $ISP. and sunrise has also to do per-user accounting, to send the bill... -steven ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] future of dsl
On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 11:59 +0200, Glogger Steven wrote: > ok, for the speed: it's 3 times faster .. (ow..is that slow -,)) > but is it really cheaper? [...] Idea: Let's say I have a "standard" (600/100) flatrate adsl account from ISP A at home, and the Sunrise 150 flex somewhere else (holiday house, chalet, grandparents, etc.). Will it still work if I just configure the sunrise adsl line with the login/pw information of ISP A ? (assuming I turn off the router at home). I guess it would work (but of course still at 150/50), but what about the 20MB limitation? Who is doing the accounting work: Swisscom or Sunrise, or both? Regards, Olivier ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: R: [swinog] future of dsl
The different is with analog Telephone Line you pay every Minute, if you are in the Internet... This you can have better on control. But The traffic. I think is not very easy... I make now a test at home... I have installed a counter on my PC and I'm looking, how mach of traffic the computer makes, without me... You must look Antivirus make every month min. 5-10 mb traffic. Windows Updates.. horror... En fact the Limit is Fr. 59.-- for the traffic. I think the most costumer are paying the Limit (total 69.--). For 150/50 is this verry expensive... For ADSL i think is the best way a flatrate... But I write tomorrow mornig what kind of trafic my computer is making... without makeing sometings. Greeting Xaver At Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:51:06 +0200, you wrote: >I don't think it's stupid. With a 56k modem you don't have any MB = >included at all, and you pay for traffic. Yes, you also pay when you = >install Windows Updates, McAfee updates or whatever. But if I were a = >"non-techie", I'd still prefer ADSL 150/50 instead of a 56k modem - = >because it's faster! *duh* > >At the end, you pay almost the same per hour like with a 56k modem = >(maybe something less) and you're faster. Again, this product wasn't = >thought for technical people, but for dial-up users who would like to = >get rid of the old, slow, noisy modem (yes, you can turn off the = >speaker, I know :-)) and maybe allow the husband to place a phone call = >while the wife plays Swiss Lotto, without needing ISDN. Is this so = >difficult? /methings ADSL Light was a great idea by Swisscom. Why does = >everything need to do Swisscom-bashing as a principle? > >Regards >Manuel >=20 > >-Messaggio originale- >Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Alain Stucki >Inviato: venerd=EC, 22. luglio 2005 10:02 >A: swinog@swinog.ch >Oggetto: AW: [swinog] future of dsl > >That's exact my position. 20MB/month.. This is really stupid..=20 >20MB exhausted in a few days by reading your daily spam, some other = >mails with attached files and so on..=20 > >I think no one need ADSL with 20MB traffic limit, the good, old 56k = >modem is a much better solution for these "Gelegenheits-surfer" >No basic free, no traffic limit.. You pay exactly what you get.. > >Greetz >Alain > >___ >swinog mailing list >swinog@lists.swinog.ch >http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
AW: [swinog] future of dsl
> I don't think it's stupid. With a 56k modem you don't have > any MB included at all, and you pay for traffic. Yes, you > also pay when you install Windows Updates, McAfee updates or > whatever. But if I were a "non-techie", I'd still prefer ADSL > 150/50 instead of a 56k modem - because it's faster! *duh* ok, for the speed: it's 3 times faster .. (ow..is that slow -,)) but is it really cheaper? let's calculate a little bit: 20MB costs the user at least 10.- per month (that he has to switch his telephone to sunrise is another thing). a 56k modem reaches about 7kb/sec. so 20Mb takes about 48 Minutes to download. 1 hour by phone costs something CHF 2.80. i know, its a little bit comparing apples with pears... but at the end: - the user can download faster (ok, it takes hime 16 minutes...) - pays around 10x more ... the user should enjoy a good coffee during that download - which he can of course afford because he saved some money ;-) > Why does everything need to do Swisscom-bashing as a principle? it'snot swisscom bashing (ok, maybe a little bit): but the pricing we have to pay to swisscom is far away from good and bad. it seems that they took a pricelist from 1998 or so for this service... pfft... -steven ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
R: [swinog] future of dsl
I don't think it's stupid. With a 56k modem you don't have any MB included at all, and you pay for traffic. Yes, you also pay when you install Windows Updates, McAfee updates or whatever. But if I were a "non-techie", I'd still prefer ADSL 150/50 instead of a 56k modem - because it's faster! *duh* At the end, you pay almost the same per hour like with a 56k modem (maybe something less) and you're faster. Again, this product wasn't thought for technical people, but for dial-up users who would like to get rid of the old, slow, noisy modem (yes, you can turn off the speaker, I know :-)) and maybe allow the husband to place a phone call while the wife plays Swiss Lotto, without needing ISDN. Is this so difficult? /methings ADSL Light was a great idea by Swisscom. Why does everything need to do Swisscom-bashing as a principle? Regards Manuel -Messaggio originale- Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di Alain Stucki Inviato: venerdì, 22. luglio 2005 10:02 A: swinog@swinog.ch Oggetto: AW: [swinog] future of dsl That's exact my position. 20MB/month.. This is really stupid.. 20MB exhausted in a few days by reading your daily spam, some other mails with attached files and so on.. I think no one need ADSL with 20MB traffic limit, the good, old 56k modem is a much better solution for these "Gelegenheits-surfer" No basic free, no traffic limit.. You pay exactly what you get.. Greetz Alain ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: AW: [swinog] future of dsl
Be sure to disconnect when you're not using the ADSL... the unsolicited traffic (backscatter, scanners, worms, etc..) will generate between 60 and 120Mb incomming traffic per month per IP Pascal smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
AW: AW: [swinog] future of dsl
sorry, the ADSL Night is verry Expensive.. If the price is only 6 Francs cheaper, as an normal ADSL Prise (600/100). I think isn't an alternative... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Auftrag von Marco Huggenberger Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 10:13 An: swinog@swinog.ch Betreff: Re: AW: [swinog] future of dsl Alain Stucki schrieb: > I think no one need ADSL with 20MB traffic limit, the good, old 56k modem is a much better solution for these "Gelegenheits-surfer" > No basic free, no traffic limit.. You pay exactly what you get.. Or if you just need DSL in the night, use ADSLnight ;) http://www.init7.net/adsl-night.php Cheers M. Things you can do on friday (if you have nothing to do): Join the openBC-Swinog-Forum at: https://www.openbc.com/net/swinog/ Write articles on the new swinog-wiki*: http://wiki.swinog.ch/index.php/Main_Page *If you need an account just drop me a line to marco-at-by-night.ch ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: AW: [swinog] future of dsl
Alain Stucki schrieb: I think no one need ADSL with 20MB traffic limit, the good, old 56k modem is a much better solution for these "Gelegenheits-surfer" No basic free, no traffic limit.. You pay exactly what you get.. Or if you just need DSL in the night, use ADSLnight ;) http://www.init7.net/adsl-night.php Cheers M. Things you can do on friday (if you have nothing to do): Join the openBC-Swinog-Forum at: https://www.openbc.com/net/swinog/ Write articles on the new swinog-wiki*: http://wiki.swinog.ch/index.php/Main_Page *If you need an account just drop me a line to marco-at-by-night.ch ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
AW: [swinog] future of dsl
Swisscom will make money. With adsl for only 25.--/Mt. or less. They couldn't finance the infrastructur. With the new price they get a lot of money. 2nd part is the most people woln't pay a fixrate. They say i don't use ADSL so often... With this offer, i think they get a lot of people to adsl, which now are using a anlalog modem or an ISDN TA. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Auftrag von mark walliser Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:55 An: swinog@swinog.ch Betreff: Re: [swinog] future of dsl please stick to the real world... ...and think again about the "targetpeople"... in addidtion on the other hand: i really cannot think of someone using a "penguin-os" (or whatever) and downloading less than 20MB/month... why the hell can one always make a linux** vs. windows-topic out of everything?! :-/ greetz, mark ** > or freebsd, beos, osx, solaris or anything else... - Original Message - From: "Kuster, Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: RE: [swinog] future of dsl Another argument not to use windoze... Christian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark walliser Sent: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:23 To: swinog@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] future of dsl ...so, what will be the price of all these nice "automatic updates": - the next servicepack - the security patches - the update of the virusscanner - the update of the anti-spyware . . . please don't arguement: turn it off... because "automatic" is recommended - and the targetpeople you named, they definitely choose the recommended value... limit @ 20MB is way to low... ...i for one would never choose "non-flatrate", but that's a different story... just my 0.02$ cheers, mark walliser - Original Message - From: "Manuel Wenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: R: [swinog] future of dsl Hello, > That Sunrise offer is just a "Bauernfänger": 20 MB are exhausted > in a few days by requesting the "Tagi"'s (or Blick ..) homepage > and receiving some Emails - including "God morning" stuff and SPAM. > In fact, with this offer they may still reach the 40 CHF ;-) What you say is true. But that's not what this new ADSL product's target customers do with Internet. I think more of people like "my mother" (tm) who turn on the 'puter once a week to receive *one* email from her friend and then once a month to do their telebanking stuff. People like this actually exist, and that's a good product for them. They will never reach the 49.-/month that a 600/100 costs. That's why we are also offering this product :-) -Manuel ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
AW: [swinog] future of dsl
That's exact my position. 20MB/month.. This is really stupid.. 20MB exhausted in a few days by reading your daily spam, some other mails with attached files and so on.. I think no one need ADSL with 20MB traffic limit, the good, old 56k modem is a much better solution for these "Gelegenheits-surfer" No basic free, no traffic limit.. You pay exactly what you get.. Greetz Alain -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von mark walliser Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:55 An: swinog@swinog.ch Betreff: Re: [swinog] future of dsl please stick to the real world... ...and think again about the "targetpeople"... in addidtion on the other hand: i really cannot think of someone using a "penguin-os" (or whatever) and downloading less than 20MB/month... why the hell can one always make a linux** vs. windows-topic out of everything?! :-/ greetz, mark ** > or freebsd, beos, osx, solaris or anything else... - Original Message - From: "Kuster, Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: RE: [swinog] future of dsl Another argument not to use windoze... Christian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark walliser Sent: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:23 To: swinog@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] future of dsl ...so, what will be the price of all these nice "automatic updates": - the next servicepack - the security patches - the update of the virusscanner - the update of the anti-spyware . . . please don't arguement: turn it off... because "automatic" is recommended - and the targetpeople you named, they definitely choose the recommended value... limit @ 20MB is way to low... ...i for one would never choose "non-flatrate", but that's a different story... just my 0.02$ cheers, mark walliser - Original Message - From: "Manuel Wenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: R: [swinog] future of dsl Hello, > That Sunrise offer is just a "Bauernfänger": 20 MB are exhausted > in a few days by requesting the "Tagi"'s (or Blick ..) homepage > and receiving some Emails - including "God morning" stuff and SPAM. > In fact, with this offer they may still reach the 40 CHF ;-) What you say is true. But that's not what this new ADSL product's target customers do with Internet. I think more of people like "my mother" (tm) who turn on the 'puter once a week to receive *one* email from her friend and then once a month to do their telebanking stuff. People like this actually exist, and that's a good product for them. They will never reach the 49.-/month that a 600/100 costs. That's why we are also offering this product :-) -Manuel ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
i for one am pretty tired of it. period. - Original Message - From: "Kuster, Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [swinog] future of dsl For fun :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark walliser Sent: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:55 To: swinog@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] future of dsl please stick to the real world... ...and think again about the "targetpeople"... in addidtion on the other hand: i really cannot think of someone using a "penguin-os" (or whatever) and downloading less than 20MB/month... why the hell can one always make a linux** vs. windows-topic out of everything?! :-/ greetz, mark ** > or freebsd, beos, osx, solaris or anything else... - Original Message - From: "Kuster, Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: RE: [swinog] future of dsl Another argument not to use windoze... Christian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark walliser Sent: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:23 To: swinog@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] future of dsl ...so, what will be the price of all these nice "automatic updates": - the next servicepack - the security patches - the update of the virusscanner - the update of the anti-spyware . . . please don't arguement: turn it off... because "automatic" is recommended - and the targetpeople you named, they definitely choose the recommended value... limit @ 20MB is way to low... ...i for one would never choose "non-flatrate", but that's a different story... just my 0.02$ cheers, mark walliser - Original Message - From: "Manuel Wenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: R: [swinog] future of dsl Hello, That Sunrise offer is just a "Bauernfänger": 20 MB are exhausted in a few days by requesting the "Tagi"'s (or Blick ..) homepage and receiving some Emails - including "God morning" stuff and SPAM. In fact, with this offer they may still reach the 40 CHF ;-) What you say is true. But that's not what this new ADSL product's target customers do with Internet. I think more of people like "my mother" (tm) who turn on the 'puter once a week to receive *one* email from her friend and then once a month to do their telebanking stuff. People like this actually exist, and that's a good product for them. They will never reach the 49.-/month that a 600/100 costs. That's why we are also offering this product :-) -Manuel ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
RE: [swinog] future of dsl
For fun :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark walliser Sent: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:55 To: swinog@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] future of dsl please stick to the real world... ...and think again about the "targetpeople"... in addidtion on the other hand: i really cannot think of someone using a "penguin-os" (or whatever) and downloading less than 20MB/month... why the hell can one always make a linux** vs. windows-topic out of everything?! :-/ greetz, mark ** > or freebsd, beos, osx, solaris or anything else... - Original Message - From: "Kuster, Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: RE: [swinog] future of dsl Another argument not to use windoze... Christian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark walliser Sent: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:23 To: swinog@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] future of dsl ...so, what will be the price of all these nice "automatic updates": - the next servicepack - the security patches - the update of the virusscanner - the update of the anti-spyware . . . please don't arguement: turn it off... because "automatic" is recommended - and the targetpeople you named, they definitely choose the recommended value... limit @ 20MB is way to low... ...i for one would never choose "non-flatrate", but that's a different story... just my 0.02$ cheers, mark walliser - Original Message - From: "Manuel Wenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: R: [swinog] future of dsl Hello, > That Sunrise offer is just a "Bauernfänger": 20 MB are exhausted > in a few days by requesting the "Tagi"'s (or Blick ..) homepage > and receiving some Emails - including "God morning" stuff and SPAM. > In fact, with this offer they may still reach the 40 CHF ;-) What you say is true. But that's not what this new ADSL product's target customers do with Internet. I think more of people like "my mother" (tm) who turn on the 'puter once a week to receive *one* email from her friend and then once a month to do their telebanking stuff. People like this actually exist, and that's a good product for them. They will never reach the 49.-/month that a 600/100 costs. That's why we are also offering this product :-) -Manuel ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
please stick to the real world... ...and think again about the "targetpeople"... in addidtion on the other hand: i really cannot think of someone using a "penguin-os" (or whatever) and downloading less than 20MB/month... why the hell can one always make a linux** vs. windows-topic out of everything?! :-/ greetz, mark ** > or freebsd, beos, osx, solaris or anything else... - Original Message - From: "Kuster, Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: RE: [swinog] future of dsl Another argument not to use windoze... Christian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark walliser Sent: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:23 To: swinog@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] future of dsl ...so, what will be the price of all these nice "automatic updates": - the next servicepack - the security patches - the update of the virusscanner - the update of the anti-spyware . . . please don't arguement: turn it off... because "automatic" is recommended - and the targetpeople you named, they definitely choose the recommended value... limit @ 20MB is way to low... ...i for one would never choose "non-flatrate", but that's a different story... just my 0.02$ cheers, mark walliser - Original Message - From: "Manuel Wenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: R: [swinog] future of dsl Hello, That Sunrise offer is just a "Bauernfänger": 20 MB are exhausted in a few days by requesting the "Tagi"'s (or Blick ..) homepage and receiving some Emails - including "God morning" stuff and SPAM. In fact, with this offer they may still reach the 40 CHF ;-) What you say is true. But that's not what this new ADSL product's target customers do with Internet. I think more of people like "my mother" (tm) who turn on the 'puter once a week to receive *one* email from her friend and then once a month to do their telebanking stuff. People like this actually exist, and that's a good product for them. They will never reach the 49.-/month that a 600/100 costs. That's why we are also offering this product :-) -Manuel ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
RE: [swinog] future of dsl
Another argument not to use windoze... Christian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark walliser Sent: Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 09:23 To: swinog@swinog.ch Subject: Re: [swinog] future of dsl ...so, what will be the price of all these nice "automatic updates": - the next servicepack - the security patches - the update of the virusscanner - the update of the anti-spyware . . . please don't arguement: turn it off... because "automatic" is recommended - and the targetpeople you named, they definitely choose the recommended value... limit @ 20MB is way to low... ...i for one would never choose "non-flatrate", but that's a different story... just my 0.02$ cheers, mark walliser - Original Message - From: "Manuel Wenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: R: [swinog] future of dsl Hello, > That Sunrise offer is just a "Bauernfänger": 20 MB are exhausted > in a few days by requesting the "Tagi"'s (or Blick ..) homepage > and receiving some Emails - including "God morning" stuff and SPAM. > In fact, with this offer they may still reach the 40 CHF ;-) What you say is true. But that's not what this new ADSL product's target customers do with Internet. I think more of people like "my mother" (tm) who turn on the 'puter once a week to receive *one* email from her friend and then once a month to do their telebanking stuff. People like this actually exist, and that's a good product for them. They will never reach the 49.-/month that a 600/100 costs. That's why we are also offering this product :-) -Manuel ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
Re: [swinog] future of dsl
...so, what will be the price of all these nice "automatic updates": - the next servicepack - the security patches - the update of the virusscanner - the update of the anti-spyware . . . please don't arguement: turn it off... because "automatic" is recommended - and the targetpeople you named, they definitely choose the recommended value... limit @ 20MB is way to low... ...i for one would never choose "non-flatrate", but that's a different story... just my 0.02$ cheers, mark walliser - Original Message - From: "Manuel Wenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:01 AM Subject: R: [swinog] future of dsl Hello, That Sunrise offer is just a "Bauernfänger": 20 MB are exhausted in a few days by requesting the "Tagi"'s (or Blick ..) homepage and receiving some Emails - including "God morning" stuff and SPAM. In fact, with this offer they may still reach the 40 CHF ;-) What you say is true. But that's not what this new ADSL product's target customers do with Internet. I think more of people like "my mother" (tm) who turn on the 'puter once a week to receive *one* email from her friend and then once a month to do their telebanking stuff. People like this actually exist, and that's a good product for them. They will never reach the 49.-/month that a 600/100 costs. That's why we are also offering this product :-) -Manuel ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
R: [swinog] future of dsl
Hello, > That Sunrise offer is just a "Bauernfänger": 20 MB are exhausted > in a few days by requesting the "Tagi"'s (or Blick ..) homepage > and receiving some Emails - including "God morning" stuff and SPAM. > In fact, with this offer they may still reach the 40 CHF ;-) What you say is true. But that's not what this new ADSL product's target customers do with Internet. I think more of people like "my mother" (tm) who turn on the 'puter once a week to receive *one* email from her friend and then once a month to do their telebanking stuff. People like this actually exist, and that's a good product for them. They will never reach the 49.-/month that a 600/100 costs. That's why we are also offering this product :-) -Manuel ___ swinog mailing list swinog@lists.swinog.ch http://lists.swinog.ch/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swinog
