subject:"\[sword\-devel\] More French questions"

Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

2018-01-03 Thread Dominique Corbex

A few thoughts:

Calvin is just the label I choose for naming the v11n of French Bibles based on 
the Textus Receptus released in Geneva, Switzerland from 1535 till nowadays. In 
French, these Bibles are named 'Bibles de Genève' (Geneva Bibles). I've could 
have named the v11n 'Geneva', but it already exists an English Geneva Bible 
issued in 1560, using another v11n. John Calvin prefaced the first French Bible 
in 1535, then revised the full Bible in 1560, a version nicknamed 'Bible de 
l'Épée' or 'Bible of the Sword' in English, two good reasons among others, I 
think, for naming this v11n as 'Calvin'.

The Calvin v11n should include OT, NT, and optionally deuterocanonical books.

The BHS (Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia) on the other hand, besides the 
different book order, is an edition of the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew Bible 
and clearly contains OT only.

Hope it helps
-- .
domcox 

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Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

2018-01-03 Thread David Haslam

Versifications are merely that. They do not encompass mappings of one v11n to 
another.

Before SWORD began to support av11n, several Bible modules were squeezed into 
the KJV v11n.
Only a few of these have the original references parenthesised at the start of 
verse text.

Best regards,

David

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 02:07, John Dudeck  wrote:

> Dominique and all,
>
> I need to understand better what the v11n functionality actually does in 
> Sword.
>
> A good example is the Plague of Frogs in Exodus. In all my English bibles, as 
> well as French Darby, it starts on Ex 8:1. However in all my other French 
> bibles it starts on Ex 7:26-29, and Ex chapter 8 is offset by 4 verses.
>
> I notice that the French Bibles downloadable in AndBible (I looked at 
> FreSegond and F10), follow the KJV versification, rather than the official 
> French versification. In other words, they have been modified and do not 
> follow their canonical form.
>
> So I am frustrated trying to figure out how Sword (and AndBible) handle v11n. 
> I have read the Wiki several times over. It is so sketchy that it's not much 
> help.
>
> I realize that things are in flux in this area. Reportedly AndBible is 
> supposed to already have the French v11n, but the French Bibles that are in 
> the repository follow the KJV, so there is no way to demonstrate what it is 
> doing.
>
> So my question is: How is v11n _supposed_ to work? Does it effectively map 
> every verse between versions having different v11n?
>
> The .h file appears to only list the book order and the number of verses in 
> each chapter. I don't see how this maps verse to verse. It can't possibly 
> just assume that from chapter 1 verse 1 to the end of the book all the verses 
> are contiguous and can be matched 1-to-1 with a different bible, because not 
> all bibles have the same number of verses. In some places, two verse are 
> merged into one, other places one verse is split into two, in Psalms the 
> headers are counted as verse 1 in French but not in English, some Bibles have 
> dropped out certain verses and left gaps in the verse numbering, etc, etc.
>
>> > But the Colombe is different in the book of Joel... it follows the BHS and 
>> > has 4 chapters.
>>
>> In fact, after a closer look, I discovered 56 differences in OT and 2 in NT 
>> between the Segond 1910 and a revised 1978 I own.
>> This are not only differences in the number of maximum verses per chapter, 
>> but also in the number of chapter for 2 books, Joel and Malachi.
>
> Right. I only mentioned just the one example, that was causing osis2mod to 
> hang...it never got as far as Malachi, etc.
>
>> I guess you have two options, either you renumber the verses of the 
>> commentary to match an existing v11n, or you write a new verse map for the 
>> 'Colombe'.
>
> I would be happy to do a verse map, but I am not clear on how the mapping is 
> done.
>
> My current work-around is going to be (as you suggest) to adjust all of the 
> French references in the commentaries to their KJV equivalents. This will not 
> be seen by the user, as it will be done in the  and 
>  tags. I already have code that does this in my 
> conversion scripts. But I am hoping that the forthcoming v11n will allow me 
> to work with the natural v11n of each commentary, and let Sword handle the 
> mapping.
>
> BTW We will be putting three new French bibles into Sword: Parole de Vie, 
> S21, and Nouvelle Edition de Genève (NEG). These are not public domain, and 
> will only be distributed in the scope of our project. I will have to see 
> whether there will be v11n issues with any of these. MacArthur's commentaries 
> use NEG. The Africa Bible Commentary uses Colombe. But we are not likely to 
> put the Colombe Bible into the project, nor NBS nor Semeur, because of cost.
>
>> As a starting point, please find attached a skeleton for a new v11n, it is 
>> based on my own Bible 'Colombe'.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> --
>> domcox 
>
> John Dudeck  Tel: +1-704-588-9891  Cell: +1-803-504-8065
> john.dud...@sim.orgCharlotte, North Carolina
> --
> When the carols have been stilled, When the star-topped tree is taken down,
> When family and friends are gone home, When we are back to our schedules,
> THE WORK OF CHRISTMAS BEGINS
> To welcome the refugee, To heal a broken planet, To feed the hungry,
> To build bridges of trust, not walls of fear, To share our gifts,
> To seek justice and peace for all people,
> To bring Christ's light to the world. -- Michael Dougherty___
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Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

2018-01-02 Thread ref...@gmx.net

The French versifications are new (as of 1.8.0) in libsword and hence not yet used for current modules. I will reissue the translations with correct versifications once the more important front-ends report being released with 1.8.0 support. This can be next week or a few months. PeterSent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird autocorrects. Original Message Subject: Re: [sword-devel] More French questionsFrom: John Dudeck To: sword-devel mailing list CC: 


Dominique and all,


I need to understand better what the v11n functionality actually does in Sword.


A good example is the Plague of Frogs in Exodus. In all my English bibles, as well as French Darby, it starts on Ex 8:1. However 
in all my other French bibles it starts on Ex 7:26-29, and Ex chapter 8 is offset by 4 verses. 


I notice that the French Bibles downloadable in AndBible (I looked at FreSegond and F10), follow the KJV versification, rather 
than the official French versification. In other words, they have been modified and do not follow their canonical form.


So I am frustrated trying to figure out how Sword (and AndBible) handle v11n. I have read the Wiki several times over. It is so 
sketchy that it's not much help.


I realize that things are in flux in this area. Reportedly AndBible is supposed to already have the French v11n, but the French 
Bibles that are in the repository follow the KJV, so there is no way to demonstrate what it is doing.


So my question is: How is v11n _supposed_ to work? Does it effectively map every verse between versions having different 
v11n?


The .h file appears to only list the book order and the number of verses in each chapter. I don't see how this maps verse to verse. 
It can't possibly just assume that from chapter 1 verse 1 to the end of the book all the verses are contiguous and can be matched 
1-to-1 with a different bible, because not all bibles have the same number of verses. In some places, two verse are merged into 
one, other places one verse is split into two, in Psalms the headers are counted as verse 1 in French but not in English, some 
Bibles have dropped out certain verses and left gaps in the verse numbering, etc, etc.


> > But the Colombe is different in the book of Joel... it follows the BHS and has 4 chapters.
> 
> In fact, after a closer look, I discovered 56 differences in OT and 2 in NT between the Segond 1910 and a revised 1978 I own.
> This are not only differences in the number of maximum verses per chapter, but also in the number of chapter for 2 books, Joel 
and Malachi.


Right. I only mentioned just the one example, that was causing osis2mod to hang...it never got as far as Malachi, etc.


> I guess you have two options, either you renumber the verses of the commentary to match an existing v11n, or you write a new 
verse map for the 'Colombe'.


I would be happy to do a verse map, but I am not clear on how the mapping is done. 


My current work-around is going to be (as you suggest) to adjust all of the French references in the commentaries to their KJV 
equivalents. This will not be seen by the user, as it will be done in the  and  tags. I 
already have code that does this in my conversion scripts. But I am hoping that the forthcoming v11n will allow me to work with 
the natural v11n of each commentary, and let Sword handle the mapping.


BTW We will be putting three new French bibles into Sword: Parole de Vie, S21, and Nouvelle Edition de Genève (NEG). These 
are not public domain, and will only be distributed in the scope of our project. I will have to see whether there will be v11n issues 
with any of these. MacArthur's commentaries use NEG. The Africa Bible Commentary uses Colombe. But we are not likely to put 
the Colombe Bible into the project, nor NBS nor Semeur, because of cost.


> As a starting point, please find attached a skeleton for a new v11n, it is based on my own Bible 'Colombe'.
> 
> Best regards,
> -- 
> domcox 


John Dudeck  Tel: +1-704-588-9891  Cell: +1-803-504-8065
john.dud...@sim.org    Charlotte, North Carolina
--
When the carols have been stilled, When the star-topped tree is taken down,
When family and friends are gone home, When we are back to our schedules,
THE WORK OF CHRISTMAS BEGINS
To welcome the refugee, To heal a broken planet, To feed the hungry,
To build bridges of trust, not walls of fear, To share our gifts,
To seek justice and peace for all people, 
To bring Christ's light to the world. -- Michael Dougherty
  



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Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

2018-01-02 Thread John Dudeck




Dominique and all,


I need to understand better what the v11n functionality actually does in Sword.


A good example is the Plague of Frogs in Exodus. In all my English bibles, as well as French Darby, it starts on Ex 8:1. However 
in all my other French bibles it starts on Ex 7:26-29, and Ex chapter 8 is offset by 4 verses. 


I notice that the French Bibles downloadable in AndBible (I looked at FreSegond and F10), follow the KJV versification, rather 
than the official French versification. In other words, they have been modified and do not follow their canonical form.


So I am frustrated trying to figure out how Sword (and AndBible) handle v11n. I have read the Wiki several times over. It is so 
sketchy that it's not much help.


I realize that things are in flux in this area. Reportedly AndBible is supposed to already have the French v11n, but the French 
Bibles that are in the repository follow the KJV, so there is no way to demonstrate what it is doing.


So my question is: How is v11n _supposed_ to work? Does it effectively map every verse between versions having different 
v11n?


The .h file appears to only list the book order and the number of verses in each chapter. I don't see how this maps verse to verse. 
It can't possibly just assume that from chapter 1 verse 1 to the end of the book all the verses are contiguous and can be matched 
1-to-1 with a different bible, because not all bibles have the same number of verses. In some places, two verse are merged into 
one, other places one verse is split into two, in Psalms the headers are counted as verse 1 in French but not in English, some 
Bibles have dropped out certain verses and left gaps in the verse numbering, etc, etc.


> > But the Colombe is different in the book of Joel... it follows the BHS and has 4 chapters.
> 
> In fact, after a closer look, I discovered 56 differences in OT and 2 in NT between the Segond 1910 and a revised 1978 I own.
> This are not only differences in the number of maximum verses per chapter, but also in the number of chapter for 2 books, Joel 
and Malachi.


Right. I only mentioned just the one example, that was causing osis2mod to hang...it never got as far as Malachi, etc.


> I guess you have two options, either you renumber the verses of the commentary to match an existing v11n, or you write a new 
verse map for the 'Colombe'.


I would be happy to do a verse map, but I am not clear on how the mapping is done. 


My current work-around is going to be (as you suggest) to adjust all of the French references in the commentaries to their KJV 
equivalents. This will not be seen by the user, as it will be done in the  and  tags. I 
already have code that does this in my conversion scripts. But I am hoping that the forthcoming v11n will allow me to work with 
the natural v11n of each commentary, and let Sword handle the mapping.


BTW We will be putting three new French bibles into Sword: Parole de Vie, S21, and Nouvelle Edition de Genève (NEG). These 
are not public domain, and will only be distributed in the scope of our project. I will have to see whether there will be v11n issues 
with any of these. MacArthur's commentaries use NEG. The Africa Bible Commentary uses Colombe. But we are not likely to put 
the Colombe Bible into the project, nor NBS nor Semeur, because of cost.


> As a starting point, please find attached a skeleton for a new v11n, it is based on my own Bible 'Colombe'.
> 
> Best regards,
> -- 
> domcox 


John Dudeck  Tel: +1-704-588-9891  Cell: +1-803-504-8065
john.dud...@sim.org    Charlotte, North Carolina
--
When the carols have been stilled, When the star-topped tree is taken down,
When family and friends are gone home, When we are back to our schedules,
THE WORK OF CHRISTMAS BEGINS
To welcome the refugee, To heal a broken planet, To feed the hungry,
To build bridges of trust, not walls of fear, To share our gifts,
To seek justice and peace for all people, 
To bring Christ's light to the world. -- Michael Dougherty
  



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Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

2018-01-02 Thread Tom Sullivan

You might see if you can get a response from Richard Gamble at rpts.edu. 
He has studied Calvin extensively and has a reputation in Calvin 
studies. He might be able to answer.


Tom Sullivan
i...@beforgiven.info
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as a substitute for all who trust in Him, redeeming them from Hell.
If you repent (turn from your sin) and believe (trust) in Jesus Christ,
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On 01/02/2018 02:06 PM, Dominique Corbex wrote:

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:11:07 -0500
"John Dudeck"  wrote:

Hi John,


Do you know if Calvin is close to BHS - Bible Hebraic Stuttgartensia (or 
something like that)?

An alternate v11n for Massoretic Texts exists, but the order of books is 
different, e.g. the 5 last books are Esther, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Chronicles,
It may fit the BHS 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblia_Hebraica_Stuttgartensia#Book_order) but 
not the 'Colombe'.



But the Colombe is different in the book of Joel... it follows the BHS and has 
4 chapters.


In fact, after a closer look, I discovered 56 differences in OT and 2 in NT 
between the Segond 1910 and a revised 1978 I own.
This are not only differences in the number of maximum verses per chapter, but 
also in the number of chapter for 2 books, Joel and Malachi.

I guess you have two options, either you renumber the verses of the commentary 
to match an existing v11n, or you write a new verse map for the 'Colombe'.
As a starting point, please find attached a skeleton for a new v11n, it is 
based on my own Bible 'Colombe'.

Best regards,



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Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

2018-01-02 Thread Dominique Corbex

On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:11:07 -0500
"John Dudeck"  wrote:

Hi John,

> Do you know if Calvin is close to BHS - Bible Hebraic Stuttgartensia (or 
> something like that)?
An alternate v11n for Massoretic Texts exists, but the order of books is 
different, e.g. the 5 last books are Esther, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Chronicles,
It may fit the BHS 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblia_Hebraica_Stuttgartensia#Book_order) but 
not the 'Colombe'.


> But the Colombe is different in the book of Joel... it follows the BHS and 
> has 4 chapters.

In fact, after a closer look, I discovered 56 differences in OT and 2 in NT 
between the Segond 1910 and a revised 1978 I own.
This are not only differences in the number of maximum verses per chapter, but 
also in the number of chapter for 2 books, Joel and Malachi.

I guess you have two options, either you renumber the verses of the commentary 
to match an existing v11n, or you write a new verse map for the 'Colombe'.
As a starting point, please find attached a skeleton for a new v11n, it is 
based on my own Bible 'Colombe'.

Best regards,
-- 
domcox 
/**
 *
 *  canon_segondr78.h -	Versification data for French Louis Segond
 *  revised 1978 (aka. "Colombe")
 *
 * Copyright 1998-2013 CrossWire Bible Society (http://www.crosswire.org)
 *	CrossWire Bible Society
 *	P. O. Box 2528
 *	Tempe, AZ  85280-2528
 *
 * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
 * under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the
 * Free Software Foundation version 2.
 *
 * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
 * WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
 * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the GNU
 * General Public License for more details.
 *
 */

#ifndef CANON_SEGONDR78_H
#define CANON_SEGONDR78_H

SWORD_NAMESPACE_START

// Versification system: Segondr78

// Book order: Gen Exod Lev Num Deut Josh Judg Ruth 1Sam 2Sam 1Kgs 2Kgs 1Chr 2Chr Ezra Neh Esth Job Ps Prov Eccl Song Isa Jer Lam Ezek Dan Hos Joel Amos Obad Jonah Mic Nah Hab Zeph Hag Zech Mal Matt Mark Luke John Acts Rom 1Cor 2Cor Gal Eph Phil Col 1Thess 2Thess 1Tim 2Tim Titus Phlm Heb Jas 1Pet 2Pet 1John 2John 3John Jude Rev


/**
 * [on]tbooks - initialize static instance for all canonical text names
 *		and chapmax
 */
struct sbook otbooks_segondr78[] = {
  {"Genesis", "Gen", "Gen", 50},
  {"Exodus", "Exod", "Exod", 40},
  {"Leviticus", "Lev", "Lev", 27},
  {"Numbers", "Num", "Num", 36},
  {"Deuteronomy", "Deut", "Deut", 34},
  {"Joshua", "Josh", "Josh", 24},
  {"Judges", "Judg", "Judg", 21},
  {"Ruth", "Ruth", "Ruth", 4},
  {"I Samuel", "1Sam", "1Sam", 31},
  {"II Samuel", "2Sam", "2Sam", 24},
  {"I Kings", "1Kgs", "1Kgs", 22},
  {"II Kings", "2Kgs", "2Kgs", 25},
  {"I Chronicles", "1Chr", "1Chr", 29},
  {"II Chronicles", "2Chr", "2Chr", 36},
  {"Ezra", "Ezra", "Ezra", 10},
  {"Nehemiah", "Neh", "Neh", 13},
  {"Esther", "Esth", "Esth", 10},
  {"Job", "Job", "Job", 42},
  {"Psalms", "Ps", "Ps", 150},
  {"Proverbs", "Prov", "Prov", 31},
  {"Ecclesiastes", "Eccl", "Eccl", 12},
  {"Song of Solomon", "Song", "Song", 8},
  {"Isaiah", "Isa", "Isa", 66},
  {"Jeremiah", "Jer", "Jer", 52},
  {"Lamentations", "Lam", "Lam", 5},
  {"Ezekiel", "Ezek", "Ezek", 48},
  {"Daniel", "Dan", "Dan", 12},
  {"Hosea", "Hos", "Hos", 14},
  {"Joel", "Joel", "Joel", 4},
  {"Amos", "Amos", "Amos", 9},
  {"Obadiah", "Obad", "Obad", 1},
  {"Jonah", "Jonah", "Jonah", 4},
  {"Micah", "Mic", "Mic", 7},
  {"Nahum", "Nah", "Nah", 3},
  {"Habakkuk", "Hab", "Hab", 3},
  {"Zephaniah", "Zeph", "Zeph", 3},
  {"Haggai", "Hag", "Hag", 2},
  {"Zechariah", "Zech", "Zech", 14},
  {"Malachi", "Mal", "Mal", 3},
  {"", "", "", 0}
};
struct sbook ntbooks_segondr78[] = {
  {"Matthew", "Matt", "Matt", 28},
  {"Mark", "Mark", "Mark", 16},
  {"Luke", "Luke", "Luke", 24},
  {"John", "John", "John", 21},
  {"Acts", "Acts", "Acts", 28},
  {"Romans", "Rom", "Rom", 16},
  {"I Corinthians", "1Cor", "1Cor", 16},
  {"II Corinthians", "2Cor", "2Cor", 13},
  {"Galatians", "Gal", "Gal", 6},
  {"Ephesians", "Eph", "Eph", 6},
  {"Philippians", "Phil", "Phil", 4},
  {"Colossians", "Col", "Col", 4},
  {"I Thessalonians", "1Thess", "1Thess", 5},
  {"II Thessalonians", "2Thess", "2Thess", 3},
  {"I Timothy", "1Tim", "1Tim", 6},
  {"II Timothy", "2Tim", "2Tim", 4},
  {"Titus", "Titus", "Titus", 3},
  {"Philemon", "Phlm", "Phlm", 1},
  {"Hebrews", "Heb", "Heb", 13},
  {"James", "Jas", "Jas", 5},
  {"I Peter", "1Pet", "1Pet", 5},
  {"II Peter", "2Pet", "2Pet", 3},
  {"I John", "1John", "1John", 5},
  {"II John", "2John", "2John", 1},
  {"III John", "3John", "3John", 1},
  {"Jude", "Jude", "Jude", 1},
  {"Revelation of John", "Rev", "Rev", 22},
  {"", "", "", 0}
};

Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

2017-12-20 Thread Dominique Corbex

Dear John,

I'm the author of the French versifications sheme, I'll do my best to to answer 
your questions.

There are actually 3 French versification schemes available in Sword/JSword:
 - Calvin  (Bibles de Genève, Martin, Ostervald...)
 - DarbyFr (Bible Darby)
 - Segond  (Bibles Segond)

This a fresh addition, so you'll need to work with Sword >= 1.7.903.


On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:45:38 -0500
"John Dudeck"  wrote:

> I am working on several commentaries in French for use specifically with 
> AndBible. So far they seem to be working more or less.
> 
> I am trying to figure out the correct way to set up French versification. 
> Supposedly Jsword supports the French versifications, but I can't find any 
> documentation on what they are. Do I need to pull the SVN and decipher the 
> source code?

No you don't, but if you want to, the v11n are described in include/canon_*.h 
files.
The French v11n are named canon_calvin.h, canon_darby.h, canon_segond.h.

There is a small section on the wiki about the French versifications:
https://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Survey_of_versification_schemes_in_French_Bibles


> I have several commentaries based on the Louis Segond (LSG) versification.
> 1) do I need to put something in the OSIS tagging to indicate this?

I don't think so. I don't do it. Please note that I'm not an expert in OSIS 
markup:)

 
> 2) what -v11n flag should I use for osis2mod.exe? Will that even work, 
> considering the 1.7 version doesn't support French versifications?

osismod.exe (>= 1.7.903) supports -v11n Calvin|DarbyFr|Segond

 
> 3) what Versification= should I put in mods.d/module.conf?

You should put (case-sensitive):
Versification=Segond


> I have one commentary that is based on the Colombe Bible, aka Segond Revisée 
> (SER). It has a lot of differences from KJV, LSG, DarbyFR, or Calvin. When I 
> try to compile it with osis2mod, the linking hangs in the book of Joel, and I 
> don't know if it is a problem with my annotateRef tagging or a problem with 
> osis2mod not knowing what to do with the versification.

The following wiki page lists the differences between the KJV and the Segond. 
https://www.crosswire.org/wiki/V11n-fr-Segond
Although there are a lot differences mainly in Job, Psalms..., there are none 
in the book of Joel. I guess there is maybe something wrong in your encoding, 
not specifically the annotateref tag.


Hoping that it will help you
Best regards,

Dominique Corbex
-- 


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[sword-devel] More French questions

2017-12-19 Thread John Dudeck

Greetings,

I know this is an ongoing discussion, but I am trying to get some work done :^)

I am working on several commentaries in French for use specifically with AndBible. So far they seem to be working
more or less.

I am trying to figure out the correct way to set up French versification. Supposedly Jsword supports the French
versifications, but I can't find any documentation on what they are. Do I need to pull the SVN and decipher the source
code?

I have several commentaries based on the Louis Segond (LSG) versification.
1) do I need to put something in the OSIS tagging to indicate this?

2) what -v11n flag should I use for osis2mod.exe? Will that even work, considering the 1.7 version doesn't support
French versifications?

3) what Versification= should I put in mods.d/module.conf?

I have one commentary that is based on the Colombe Bible, aka Segond Revisée (SER). It has a lot of differences from
KJV, LSG, DarbyFR, or Calvin. When I try to compile it with osis2mod, the linking hangs in the book of Joel, and I don't
know if it is a problem with my annotateRef tagging or a problem with osis2mod not knowing what to do with the
versification.

Seriously, I would be happy to help with French, but so far I can't even get my own stuff to work. I need help getting up
to speed.

Thanks.

John Dudeck
Programmer at Editions Cle Lyon, France
john.dud...@sim.org j...@editionscle.com
--
"I'm sure a mathematician would claim that 0 and 1 are both very
interesting numbers." -- Larry Wall

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Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

Re: [sword-devel] More French questions

[sword-devel] More French questions

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