Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 16.04.2016 um 16:15 schrieb Xen: The backlash against this renaming may have been enormous but people just say "oh, that's political". Systemd in general has been the single thing with the most opposition in the history of Linux that I'm aware of. stop spreading uneducated nonsense, the

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 16-04-16 14:27: >> So at that point, I am immediately stuck. This was in large part about >> people who are NOT expert administrators, remember? > > they don't care about how their interfaces are named And this is the lie to begin with. You people say this so you can

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 16.04.2016 um 14:20 schrieb Xen: So I deleted your email that belonged to this piece and then tried to find what you wrote about myself. But the beginning of it is of course that Debian/Ubuntu doesn't have "sysconfig" directory. I know OpenSUSE does, but Debian doesn't. that is all

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 16-04-16 12:07: > > > Am 16.04.2016 um 06:46 schrieb Andrei Borzenkov: >> 16.04.2016 03:14, Reindl Harald пишет: >>> >>> >>> Am 15.04.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Xen: If you cannot give me a default mapping automatically, why not allow me to generate one easily? Is

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 16.04.2016 um 06:46 schrieb Andrei Borzenkov: 16.04.2016 03:14, Reindl Harald пишет: Am 15.04.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Xen: If you cannot give me a default mapping automatically, why not allow me to generate one easily? Is there a tool that can take the current device and produce the list

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

16.04.2016 03:14, Reindl Harald пишет: > > > Am 15.04.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Xen: >> If you cannot give me a default mapping automatically, why not allow me >> to generate one easily? Is there a tool that can take the current device >> and produce the list I proposed? > > just use

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 15.04.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Xen: If you cannot give me a default mapping automatically, why not allow me to generate one easily? Is there a tool that can take the current device and produce the list I proposed? just use network.service aka /etc/init.d/network, enter the MAC and you are

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Andrei Borzenkov schreef op 13-04-16 05:39: > Yes. And I do not see how all this information is expected to be stuffed > into 14 characters available for interface name, or even less if we > account to VLAN numbers. > > I am not aware of any OS that tries to do it. All of them maintain >

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 05:04: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 02:42:29AM +0200, Xen wrote: >> When you say that probing on the PCI bus never ends, and if we are >> talking not about some form of hotplugging, then I really wonder what >> you're on about ;-) because I do think the kernel has a

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 15-04-16 18:06: > > > Am 15.04.2016 um 18:02 schrieb Xen: >> Reindl Harald schreef op 15-04-16 17:55: > so 3 seconds is unacceptable and the idea ist a joke in general > because > you wait for something possibly happen while you don't know how > long you

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 15.04.2016 um 18:02 schrieb Xen: Reindl Harald schreef op 15-04-16 17:55: so 3 seconds is unacceptable and the idea ist a joke in general because you wait for something possibly happen while you don't know how long you have to wait and jsut hope for luck - that's not a good design and

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 15-04-16 17:55: > > > Am 15.04.2016 um 17:48 schrieb Xen: >> Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 10:24: >>> 4xHDD raid-10, hardware from 2011 >>> Startup finished in 660ms (kernel) + 5.380s (initrd) + 12.769s >>> (userspace) = 18.810s >>> >>> os on sd-card >>> Startup

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 15.04.2016 um 17:42 schrieb Xen: Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 05:04: You are lying to me and trying to lead me in the woods. The stuff you say is stuff people say that in the end don't end up being true. It does not even agree with the reality of how the system works currently. They are

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 15.04.2016 um 17:54 schrieb Xen: Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 10:26: What are you on about? Just because I don't have a superfast system, I cannot say anything? no beause of "hmm let wait 3 seconds for something we don't know if it ever appears and how long it would take to appear"

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 15.04.2016 um 17:48 schrieb Xen: Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 10:24: 4xHDD raid-10, hardware from 2011 Startup finished in 660ms (kernel) + 5.380s (initrd) + 12.769s (userspace) = 18.810s os on sd-card Startup finished in 375ms (kernel) + 4.306s (initrd) + 8.323s (userspace) =

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 10:26: > > > Am 13.04.2016 um 03:08 schrieb Xen: >> Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 02:06: >>> >>> Am 13.04.2016 um 01:20 schrieb Xen: Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:16: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:37AM +0200, Xen wrote: >> All you need to do

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 10:24: > > > Am 13.04.2016 um 02:42 schrieb Xen: >> Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:29: >>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 01:20:05AM +0200, Xen wrote: >> >>> All execpt for 4-socket and larger servers. They take tens of minutes >>> in the BIOS and then less than a

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 05:04: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 02:42:29AM +0200, Xen wrote: >> When you say that probing on the PCI bus never ends, and if we are >> talking not about some form of hotplugging, then I really wonder what >> you're on about ;-) because I do think the kernel has a

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 13.04.2016 um 02:15 schrieb pgndev: On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: Is there a ML anywhere on which you don't sputter, fume, rant and insult? interesting that you say that to me in this thread while the OP started very early to call people

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 13.04.2016 um 03:08 schrieb Xen: Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 02:06: Am 13.04.2016 um 01:20 schrieb Xen: Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:16: On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:37AM +0200, Xen wrote: All you need to do is wait a few seconds before you start renaming Most machines boot

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 13.04.2016 um 02:42 schrieb Xen: Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:29: On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 01:20:05AM +0200, Xen wrote: All execpt for 4-socket and larger servers. They take tens of minutes in the BIOS and then less than a minute in the kernel/userspace, depending on the amount of

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 02:42:29AM +0200, Xen wrote: > When you say that probing on the PCI bus never ends, and if we are > talking not about some form of hotplugging, then I really wonder what > you're on about ;-) because I do think the kernel has a limited set of > probes that it can perform,

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

13.04.2016 02:24, Jordan Hargrave пишет: > > I am the primary developer of biosdevname. I've been wanting this > naming functionality built into systemd or even the OS itself. > Primarily I am interested in servers with multiple physical and > virtual NICs but getting it working on desktops

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 02:06: > > > Am 13.04.2016 um 01:20 schrieb Xen: >> Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:16: >>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:37AM +0200, Xen wrote: All you need to do is wait a few seconds before you start renaming >>> >>> Most machines boot to login faster

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 13-04-16 02:04: > > > Am 13.04.2016 um 00:03 schrieb Xen: >> Reindl Harald schreef op 12-04-16 21:35: >>> >>> Am 12.04.2016 um 21:24 schrieb Xen: However currently for me, biosdev renumbers these, while my scheme wouldn't >>> >>> wow - you even don't realise

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:29: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 01:20:05AM +0200, Xen wrote: > All execpt for 4-socket and larger servers. They take tens of minutes > in the BIOS and then less than a minute in the kernel/userspace, > depending on the amount of memory. > > Doesn't your

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Jordan Hargrave schreef op 13-04-16 01:24: > I am the primary developer of biosdevname. I've been wanting this > naming functionality built into systemd or even the OS itself. > Primarily I am interested in servers with multiple physical and > virtual NICs but getting it working on desktops

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: Is there a ML anywhere on which you don't sputter, fume, rant and insult? If you don't like what you're reading -- walk away and don't participate. Adding yet another rule to the 'Raindl-Filter(tm)'. The

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 13.04.2016 um 01:20 schrieb Xen: Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:16: On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:37AM +0200, Xen wrote: All you need to do is wait a few seconds before you start renaming Most machines boot to login faster than a "few seconds", so: Most machines boot to login faster

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 13.04.2016 um 00:03 schrieb Xen: Reindl Harald schreef op 12-04-16 21:35: Am 12.04.2016 um 21:24 schrieb Xen: However currently for me, biosdev renumbers these, while my scheme wouldn't wow - you even don't realise that "biosdevname" and

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 01:20:05AM +0200, Xen wrote: > Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:16: > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:37AM +0200, Xen wrote: > >> All you need to do is wait a few seconds before you start renaming > > > > Most machines boot to login faster than a "few seconds", so: > > Most

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Xen wrote: > Just want to summarize here very shortly. > > > If you turn the hotplug naming scheme into something more attractive. > > If you turn the USB naming scheme into something more attractive. > > If you accept like a 99.9% confidence

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Greg KH schreef op 13-04-16 01:16: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:37AM +0200, Xen wrote: >> All you need to do is wait a few seconds before you start renaming > > Most machines boot to login faster than a "few seconds", so: Most machines boot to login faster than a few seconds? What machines

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 12:39:37AM +0200, Xen wrote: > All you need to do is wait a few seconds before you start renaming Most machines boot to login faster than a "few seconds", so: > or wait on some defined trigger. Exactly what type of "defined trigger" would work for busses that you never

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Just want to summarize here very shortly. If you turn the hotplug naming scheme into something more attractive. If you turn the USB naming scheme into something more attractive. If you accept like a 99.9% confidence interval for waiting until hardware has shown itself, then taking the

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 12-04-16 21:35: > > > Am 12.04.2016 um 21:24 schrieb Xen: >> However currently for me, biosdev renumbers these, while my scheme >> wouldn't > > wow - you even don't realise that "biosdevname" and >

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 12-04-16 20:54: >> Then do it yourself. > > what? Design or propose something better. Maybe you thought the original system was better, I guess you mentioned something like that. > i am just a user like you but with technical understanding, the point is > that you

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 12.04.2016 um 21:24 schrieb Xen: However currently for me, biosdev renumbers these, while my scheme wouldn't wow - you even don't realise that "biosdevname" and https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ are two completly different things

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) schreef op 12-04-16 12:46: > On 04/12/2016 02:26 AM, Xen wrote: >> That is completely nonsensical because it would imply that some network >> device could be initialized 2 hours after the system had booted. > > Greg KH is completely correct -- that can totally happen. If

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 12.04.2016 um 20:37 schrieb Xen: Reindl Harald schreef op 12-04-16 11:24: Regular hardware should not suddenly appear out of nowhere, but I do not know about that Thunderbolt thing you mentioned that is nonsense * USB hardware is often *onboard* like SD-card slots on ProLiant

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 12-04-16 11:24: >> Regular hardware should not suddenly appear out of nowhere, but I do not >> know about that Thunderbolt thing you mentioned > > that is nonsense > > * USB hardware is often *onboard* like SD-card slots on ProLiant > machines down to the HP

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Reindl Harald schreef op 12-04-16 14:02: > Am 12.04.2016 um 14:00 schrieb Xen: >> Martin Pitt schreef op 12-04-16 12:57: >>> Xen [2016-04-12 3:37 +0200]: The trick to turn it off on the website doesn't work: ln -s /dev/null /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-setup-link.rules >>> >>> It

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 12.04.2016 um 14:00 schrieb Xen: Martin Pitt schreef op 12-04-16 12:57: Xen [2016-04-12 3:37 +0200]: The trick to turn it off on the website doesn't work: ln -s /dev/null /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-setup-link.rules It does (at least on Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora), but you need to

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Martin Pitt schreef op 12-04-16 12:57: > Xen [2016-04-12 3:37 +0200]: >> The trick to turn it off on the website doesn't work: >> >> ln -s /dev/null /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-setup-link.rules > > It does (at least on Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora), but you need to > rebuild your initrd after doing

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Xen [2016-04-12 3:37 +0200]: > The trick to turn it off on the website doesn't work: > > ln -s /dev/null /etc/udev/rules.d/80-net-setup-link.rules It does (at least on Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora), but you need to rebuild your initrd after doing this. Martin -- Martin Pitt

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On 04/12/2016 02:26 AM, Xen wrote: > Greg KH schreef op 12-04-16 00:14: >>> Also, since the current scheme puts usb devices in a slightly different >>> format you can identify them from the name. >>> >>> You are right in saying that that would cause a list that changes as it >>> is getting

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Am 12.04.2016 um 04:26 schrieb Xen: Greg KH schreef op 12-04-16 00:14 How you determine if a device is "onboard" or "offboard"? Are you going to know when all "onboard" devices are found before you do anything else? How? I don't know, do you know? I am just a nitwit right. The

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Xen schreef op 12-04-16 04:26: > I didn't even know it was that bad, jeez. > > My apologies. My sound stopped working as well because it was now a new device ;-) (different PCI bus number). The system sees it now as two devices, one of which is not present. They are the same device of course.

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Greg KH schreef op 12-04-16 00:14: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 11:13:25PM +0200, Xen wrote: You can put usb devices at the end of the list. >>> >>> Why last? How do you know they go last when scanning? How do you know >>> when / if they will show up? What about 2 USB devices? 3? >> >> To me

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Xen schreef op 11-04-16 23:13: > No. You are causing pain and suffering to millions of people. > > You (...) have not inquired with anyone whether they really wanted this. > > So you push something and then you say "oh, but you can opt out". > > So you place the burden on the user. It doesn't

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 11:13:25PM +0200, Xen wrote: > >> You can put usb devices at the end of the list. > > > > Why last? How do you know they go last when scanning? How do you know > > when / if they will show up? What about 2 USB devices? 3? > > To me it seems obvious that you initialize

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Greg KH schreef op 11-04-16 22:21: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:49:48PM +0200, Xen wrote: >> It will just not be "predictable" when you remove or add hardware, >> because that reorders the resulting lists. >> >> Ie, if you have: >> >> ethernet0 >> ethernet1 >> ethernet2 >> >> And you add a new

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:49:48PM +0200, Xen wrote: > It will just not be "predictable" when you remove or add hardware, > because that reorders the resulting lists. > > Ie, if you have: > > ethernet0 > ethernet1 > ethernet2 > > And you add a new device, it might become: > > ethernet0 >

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:49:48PM +0200, Xen wrote: > It will just not be "predictable" when you remove or add hardware, > because that reorders the resulting lists. > > Ie, if you have: > > ethernet0 > ethernet1 > ethernet2 > > And you add a new device, it might become: > > ethernet0 >

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Greg KH schreef op 11-04-16 01:05: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:27:24AM +0200, Xen wrote: >> Michael Biebl schreef op 11-04-16 00:22: >>> So why don't you implement such a scheme? Talk is cheap >> >> Criticising an idea by saying "do it yourself" is even cheaper. >> >> MUCH MUCH cheaper. >> >>

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:27:24AM +0200, Xen wrote: > Michael Biebl schreef op 11-04-16 00:22: > > So why don't you implement such a scheme? Talk is cheap > > Criticising an idea by saying "do it yourself" is even cheaper. > > MUCH MUCH cheaper. > > Idiot. No he isn't. The developers here

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

Michael Biebl schreef op 11-04-16 00:22: > So why don't you implement such a scheme? Talk is cheap Criticising an idea by saying "do it yourself" is even cheaper. MUCH MUCH cheaper. Idiot. ___ systemd-devel mailing list

Re: [systemd-devel] Network Interface Names: solution for a desktop OS

So why don't you implement such a scheme? Talk is cheap 2016-04-10 18:22 GMT+02:00 Xen : > I just want to present my conclusion here succintly. > > https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ > > Was introduced to safeguard against a