Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
WAY WAY WAY too logical Rich...back to the original point, a)young up and comers at age 22, 23, 24 need to commit to racing the marathon rather than waiting until they are slow and old and b) we as a group ran better back then because we trained our asses off and didn't know crapola about physiology nor were we pulled by the local yokel 5 mile dash for cash...it didn't exist -Mike - Original Message - From: Richard McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mike fanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: TFMail List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:41 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY Mike, one problem--there weren't many sub 28:20 guys to move up to the marathon in the early 90s! Look at how slow the 10k people were in the 92 and 96 Trials!(And I didn't see Pat Porter (an excellent candidate for marathoning) running much on the roads.) They just weren't around. That's my point. I don't think you can attribute this lack of talent to road racing. If you look at the collegiate markes, which are largely untainted by road racing opportunities, the marks in the late 80s thru mid 90s were miserable! Nothing at the top end, and no depth in the 5 or 10k. Bottom line: the US had little talent to spare for marathoning during that period. If you could run sub 28:20, you could do quite well in the US without moving up to the marathon during that period, so why bother. In the early 1980s, when we had hot marathoners, you needed to think you could run sub 28 to even have a shot at an international team. So sub 28:20 meant it was time to move up back then. Maybe we're starting to arrive back at that point again. Then we'll see those guys moving up to the marathon again. Richard McCann At 06:55 PM 9/27/2000 -0700, mike fanelli wrote: While I appreciate the input, Brad Hudson is not a particularly good example...we're talking about athletes who are in the 28:20 (or better) range over 10,000 meters moving up sooner rather than later...during the ,'90s, these guys typically moved on to the weekly road circuit, racing up to 10 or so miles in order to make $250-$2000...road whores with no true sense of purpose... let's take 10 guys who've run sub 28:20 and are under 26 years old and send then to USOC training Center in Chula Vista and work with them and their coaches toward a marathon effort as part of a specific racing/training cycle...betcha we get some results. (good ones) -Mike
Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
I don't think we can attribute poor marathoning by American men to delaying marathoning. Several good young runners have tried the marathon (Brad Hudson comes to mind), and not really run that fast or consistently. The real problem is simply a "hole" in the US distance talent pool from the mid 80s to mid 90s. Bob Kennedy and Todd Williams were the only two Americans to achieve something like world class status in that period, and the other athletes with great potential were injured (e.g. Shannon Butler). Even the 1500 was extremely weak, with only the inconsistent Steve Holman running truly fast times. I suspect that marathoning will pick up shortly as many from the much-improved pool of talent try the event as a matter of course. Richard McCann
Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
While I appreciate the input, Brad Hudson is not a particularly good example...we're talking about athletes who are in the 28:20 (or better) range over 10,000 meters moving up sooner rather than later...during the ,'90s, these guys typically moved on to the weekly road circuit, racing up to 10 or so miles in order to make $250-$2000...road whores with no true sense of purpose... let's take 10 guys who've run sub 28:20 and are under 26 years old and send then to USOC training Center in Chula Vista and work with them and their coaches toward a marathon effort as part of a specific racing/training cycle...betcha we get some results. (good ones) I'm a fan of the middle distance program that Del Hessel et al have coordinated for the last decade...it has promoted development there...the VISA program with my old coach, Harry Marra and Fred Samara was a success...take it to the marathon...work with up and coming "youngsters" (22- 26)...don't allow them to lose their connection to the track...forego the local yokel numbnuts $150 weekly road 10K and VOILA!!! I'm willing to bet that we can develop a core group of marathon contenders. -Mike - Original Message - From: Richard McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Fanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]; TFMail List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:26 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY I don't think we can attribute poor marathoning by American men to delaying marathoning. Several good young runners have tried the marathon (Brad Hudson comes to mind), and not really run that fast or consistently. The real problem is simply a "hole" in the US distance talent pool from the mid 80s to mid 90s. Bob Kennedy and Todd Williams were the only two Americans to achieve something like world class status in that period, and the other athletes with great potential were injured (e.g. Shannon Butler). Even the 1500 was extremely weak, with only the inconsistent Steve Holman running truly fast times. I suspect that marathoning will pick up shortly as many from the much-improved pool of talent try the event as a matter of course. Richard McCann
t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
Congratulations to Meb and Abdi on running PRs in the 10,000 meter finals. Its guys like these that the US needs to have move up to the marathon immediately...rather than wait for the downside of their careers...London or Rotterdam 2001? Mike
Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
No. It's not guys like Meb and Abdi we need moving up to the marathon. We need to coddle, teach, train and coach them towards their potential at 5K and 10K. And along the way we need to remunerate them for their success on the track, just like the marathoners. This way 12:59 and 26:59 won't seem like such a mystery to them. The answer is not pushing everyone towards the marathon. Have we not learned from our mistakes? Larry New England Track
Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
OK, let's assume that they've got an additional 30 seconds improvement over 10K...where does that put them in the world?? My only real point was that TYPICALLY in this day and age, US distance runners wait way too long to focus on the marathon. When US ran well and had depth at the distance (1980) guys had moved to the event much earlier...Shorter at 23 years old!!! Our marathon depth or lack thereof is a borderline embarassing scene. It's like "OK, now I'm really slowing down in my career...do I take up handball or the marathon??" Mike - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:37 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY No. It's not guys like Meb and Abdi we need moving up to the marathon. We need to coddle, teach, train and coach them towards their potential at 5K and 10K. And along the way we need to remunerate them for their success on the track, just like the marathoners. This way 12:59 and 26:59 won't seem like such a mystery to them. The answer is not pushing everyone towards the marathon. Have we not learned from our mistakes? Larry New England Track
Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
Oh yes, we should wait till they are in their mid 30's when their strength and speed have been dimished. Mistakes? Our mistakes have been waiting too long to enter the marathon. Muscle strength starts to decline around age 25. Strength is of the upmost importance in marathoning. Am I mistaken or are there a lot of mid 20's marathoners in the elite world scene? Alan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:37:28 EDT No. It's not guys like Meb and Abdi we need moving up to the marathon. We need to coddle, teach, train and coach them towards their potential at 5K and 10K. And along the way we need to remunerate them for their success on the track, just like the marathoners. This way 12:59 and 26:59 won't seem like such a mystery to them. The answer is not pushing everyone towards the marathon. Have we not learned from our mistakes? Larry New England Track _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
I agree, I've been harping on this for years, since I was in college in fact. The marathon (if done right) need not end one's track career. There are many examples of guys running marathons and then running better on the track. Main example, once again, is Alberto Salazar. Fresh out of Oregon, Salazar went on a binge of winning, thats right, winning New York and Boston, sub 2:10 and everything. After running marathons, Salazar also managed to run 27:26 and 13:11. I agree that it wouldn't be horrible for our fastest guys (Meb, Abdi, Hausers, and so on) to jump into a big marathon each fall after a good track season. Not necessarily a time trial course, but a big race, how about New York? Grote adiRP - Original Message - From: mike fanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 12:13 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY OK, let's assume that they've got an additional 30 seconds improvement over 10K...where does that put them in the world?? My only real point was that TYPICALLY in this day and age, US distance runners wait way too long to focus on the marathon. When US ran well and had depth at the distance (1980) guys had moved to the event much earlier...Shorter at 23 years old!!! Our marathon depth or lack thereof is a borderline embarassing scene. It's like "OK, now I'm really slowing down in my career...do I take up handball or the marathon??" Mike - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:37 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY No. It's not guys like Meb and Abdi we need moving up to the marathon. We need to coddle, teach, train and coach them towards their potential at 5K and 10K. And along the way we need to remunerate them for their success on the track, just like the marathoners. This way 12:59 and 26:59 won't seem like such a mystery to them. The answer is not pushing everyone towards the marathon. Have we not learned from our mistakes? Larry New England Track
RE: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
Strength is of the upmost importance in marathoning. Great! A new event for CJ.Let's forget about aerobic development in training our marathoners and put them all on nandrolone.
Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY
30 seconds would put abdi in a pretty good position. keep in mind that not many have broken 27. we need guys like meb and abdi to get to that level and show people that we can do it. kennedy did it, and now we have more athletes that are on the edge of great things. kennedy showed people what it takes, and now the next generation is using his experiences and benefitting from them. these younger runners must continue their growth at all distances. also, i know it was a tactical race, but 30 seconds off abdi's time wins the olympics. 27:16 is rolling. i think the best time in the world this year is only 27:03. just a little something to think about over the next few years. mccaff On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, mike fanelli wrote: OK, let's assume that they've got an additional 30 seconds improvement over 10K...where does that put them in the world?? My only real point was that TYPICALLY in this day and age, US distance runners wait way too long to focus on the marathon. When US ran well and had depth at the distance (1980) guys had moved to the event much earlier...Shorter at 23 years old!!! Our marathon depth or lack thereof is a borderline embarassing scene. It's like "OK, now I'm really slowing down in my career...do I take up handball or the marathon??" Mike - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:37 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: MEB and ABDI IN SYDNEY No. It's not guys like Meb and Abdi we need moving up to the marathon. We need to coddle, teach, train and coach them towards their potential at 5K and 10K. And along the way we need to remunerate them for their success on the track, just like the marathoners. This way 12:59 and 26:59 won't seem like such a mystery to them. The answer is not pushing everyone towards the marathon. Have we not learned from our mistakes? Larry New England Track
