Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010, pavithran wrote: Hi, I was very much surprised that a football ( the ball kicked by foot) which I tagged has shown a different ball in osmarendering . It is showing a ball used by american football . Some of the IRC discussion I had said that its 'ambiguous' though I don't agree to the ambiguous property because even americans play for FIFA where the F means Football ! But showing up a American football for places tagged with football is really suprising . How do we tag football ? I was suggested to use sport=soccer for football while sport=football for american football ! I really felt so alien :( Some interesting things I found were : Of the 45 national FIFA (Fédération Internationale de Football Association) affiliates in which English is an official or primary language, 43 use football in their organizations' official names (only Canada and United States use soccer). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(word) As a worldwide project which name should we prefer ? Regards, Pavithran Where I live there are FOUR games played all called football. Only one really uses the feet on the ball Really we should use full names which are clear and not use football at all Soccer Rugby League Rugby Union Australian Rules American Football (extras welcome) I just noted that JOSM had a rugby preset which didn't actually cover what I needed - I needed rugby league for that particular sportsground ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 1:33 PM, pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com wrote: As a worldwide project which name should we prefer ? soccer in US and Canada and football everywhere else. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
2010/6/27 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 1:33 PM, pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com wrote: As a worldwide project which name should we prefer ? soccer in US and Canada and football everywhere else. -1, AFAIK we use soccer in Germany, Italy and probably elsewhere, while football refers to american football (looking at the icons, preset icons, etc.). Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
Le 27/06/2010 14:25, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer a écrit : soccer in US and Canada and football everywhere else. -1, AFAIK we use soccer in Germany, Italy and probably elsewhere, while football refers to american football (looking at the icons, preset icons, etc.). Cheers, Martin I thought OSM tongue was English English, and not American English so I use football for European football. I never had found a place for American football. -- FrViPofm ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: -1, AFAIK we use soccer in Germany, Italy and probably elsewhere, while football refers to american football (looking at the icons, preset icons, etc.). - -1 AFAIK we tag what people see and use daily. As Richard F. said, when you see a duck, you tag a duck. If someone searches a pitch for football, I will not tell him to search a pitch for soccer because soccer is used in US and Canada but nowhere else. And as pavithran showed, even the official name is internationaly using the english original version. If you need a script to change soccer to football in your country, contact me. If you have a problem with osmarender, it's completely open and anybody can change it and fix the rules he wants. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
Pieren pier...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: -1, AFAIK we use soccer in Germany, Italy and probably elsewhere, while football refers to american football (looking at the icons, preset icons, etc.). - -1 AFAIK we tag what people see and use daily. As Richard F. said, when you see a duck, you tag a duck. If someone searches a pitch for football, I will not tell him to search a pitch for soccer because soccer is used in US and Canada but nowhere else. And as pavithran showed, even the official name is internationaly using the english original version. If you need a script to change soccer to football in your country, contact me. If you have a problem with osmarender, it's completely open and anybody can change it and fix the rules he wants. We are building a database which needs semantic consistency. The underlying problem is that words don't mean the same thing in various places. So we have to decide if football(european)/soccer is football or soccer. And then there's football americain as they say in .fr. OSM is mostly en_GB, so it seems obvious that football should mean soccer. If we had 'activity code 47' then it would just be localized. We're only having this discussion becaues the tag schema is close enough to a common language. If what you want is a map for a particular locale, and you want to translate from en_OSM to en_US or de_DE, that's another matter and seems fine. pgpjQKd4jh9mf.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
If you say football in en-GB then you mean the game run by the Football Association in England, and by FIFA internationally. If you say Rugby, you mean whichever of the two codes is dominant in your part of the country / social circle (and probably Rugby Union by default). At least the ball's the same shape for Rugby Union and Rugby League. Of course you can tag what you like and if you want to tag sport=soccer and if enough people use that then people will figure out what you mean. But it'll be 95% guesswork if you tag sport=football for anything other than Association Football. Richard On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: OSM is mostly en_GB, +1 so it seems obvious that football should mean soccer. !! really ?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football#Etymology Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
2010/6/27 Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com: In my opinion, football being multi-interpretable, the name should not be used for either. sport=soccer is 100% clear, sport=american_football also is. sport=football can be different things, and therefore is to be avoided except if for whatever reason you know something is used for some kind of football, but you do not know which one. +1. To all those who expressed there idea that soccer should be tagged sport=football in this thread: please don't ignore the wiki, applications and render rules. By looking at all of these it should become obvious that soccer is the preferred tag (also by numbers where soccer is used more than 10 times as often as football). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 8:04 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: By looking at all of these it should become obvious that soccer is the preferred tag (also by numbers where soccer is used more than 10 times as often as football). Expecting that american football dedicated pitches are quite rare in Europe, I would say that the 2700 footballs prove that nothing is obvious in this original choice made by a few people. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
Yes, the wiki needs to be changed to tell people not to use the insulting word 'soccer', especially as we try to use British English to stop tags getting confusing. Just using sport=football would be confusing, so I prefer sport=association_football I would also guess that using the insulting term 'soccer' in the UK will lead to vandalism by British football supporters Jason +1. To all those who expressed there idea that soccer should be tagged sport=football in this thread: please don't ignore the wiki, applications and render rules. By looking at all of these it should become obvious that soccer is the preferred tag (also by numbers where soccer is used more than 10 times as often as football). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
On 28 June 2010 10:48, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: rugby, or Australian_football, and avoid the use of Rugby is ambiguous as well, which can mean either rugby union or rugby league... As Liz wrote early on both of which are also referred to as football :) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tsunami warning siren?
emergency=siren ? I'm sure this sort of thing deserves it's own category. On 6/28/10, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: At 2010-06-27 00:24, Alan Mintz wrote: Is the device near the upper right of this pic: http://sites.google.com/site/am909geo/osm-1/TsunamiAlert.jpg a tsunami warning siren? I've seen a number of similar devices in coastal areas. This particular one is at 33.4993, -117.67656. Consensus is that it is a warning siren. Any objections or alternative suggestions to man_made=siren ? -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Sent from my mobile device ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?
On 28 June 2010 10:26, Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com wrote: Yes, the wiki needs to be changed to tell people not to use the insulting word 'soccer', especially as we try to use British English to stop tags getting confusing. Just using sport=football would be confusing, so I prefer sport=association_football I would also guess that using the insulting term 'soccer' in the UK will lead to vandalism by British football supporters Jason No, Jason, what is insulting is when soccer players/fans try to claim exclusive use of a word which has been used for hundreds of years for many sports, of which soccer is one on the most recent, and also the least like the original. Original football banned kicking the ball, it was carried and thrown only. You can recommend association_football if you like, but I would bet many more people can tell you what soccer is than association football. Stephen ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
