[Tagging] Permanent open air stage
Hi! I'm tagging my hometown and saw that Map features doesn't have any tag to mark open air stages. I know lot of open air stages are one time effort (for example, festivals), but there are lot of permanent ones (made of stone, wood, etc.), especially in Europe. leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? Cheers, Peter. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Kevin Atkinson ke...@atkinson.dhs.org wrote: If you help me to find the roads mentioned I might be able to give you a little better advice. What do you mean by find the roads mentioned? Also how are you identifying the function of the roads. Is it just local knowledge? Or are you using some official documents? Mostly local knowledge for the more major roads, plus physical characteristics for the minor collectors (for example, they have a centerline while other nearby streets don't). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
On 23/08/2010 10:03, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? osmdoc (specifically http://osmdoc.com/en/tag/leisure/#values) doesn't have either as of August 2009. Maybe an XAPI check somehere where you know some have been mapped might suggest one or the other, but otherwise it looks like it is up to you? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Making the former secondary would seemingly overload the map with secondaries. But as it is, there are two distinct classes of road marked as tertiary, and it's not always clear which connect between neighborhoods and which serve as main roads inside neighborhoods. Bumping the latter down to residential would also lose information: these are more than your typical residential street, and are intended to collect and distribute neighborhood traffic. Does anyone have any suggestions other than starting the long process to make a new collector classification for the latter? Am I using too few primaries and secondaries? In Germany we use highway=unclassified as minor connection (below tertiary) between two towns and also for the main road in or to a neighborhood. Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 5:16 AM, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Making the former secondary would seemingly overload the map with secondaries. But as it is, there are two distinct classes of road marked as tertiary, and it's not always clear which connect between neighborhoods and which serve as main roads inside neighborhoods. Bumping the latter down to residential would also lose information: these are more than your typical residential street, and are intended to collect and distribute neighborhood traffic. Does anyone have any suggestions other than starting the long process to make a new collector classification for the latter? Am I using too few primaries and secondaries? In Germany we use highway=unclassified as minor connection (below tertiary) between two towns and also for the main road in or to a neighborhood. highway=unclassified in my experience is essentially highway=residential outside a residential area. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Kevin Atkinson ke...@atkinson.dhs.org wrote: If you help me to find the roads mentioned I might be able to give you a little better advice. What do you mean by find the roads mentioned? I assume what you gave are street names, correct? Are they in the area you linked to. If so what are the marked as now, etc. Can you give them in the order in which I will find them in the map, either going form North to South or West to East, etc. Also how are you identifying the function of the roads. Is it just local knowledge? Or are you using some official documents? Mostly local knowledge for the more major roads, plus physical characteristics for the minor collectors (for example, they have a centerline while other nearby streets don't). In that case I will leave some of them as residential. I didn't mark every road with a centerline as tertiary in Salt Lake City. Many may be considered local roads and not collectors by the city and/or the state. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
2010/8/23 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com: Hi! I'm tagging my hometown and saw that Map features doesn't have any tag to mark open air stages. I know lot of open air stages are one time effort (for example, festivals), but there are lot of permanent ones (made of stone, wood, etc.), especially in Europe. leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? I can point you to 2 examples in Berlin, which I haven't checked for actual tagging but might be an example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.515502lon=13.229589zoom=18layers=M http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.46212lon=13.545709zoom=18layers=M cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Also how are you identifying the function of the roads. Is it just local knowledge? Or are you using some official documents? Mostly local knowledge for the more major roads, plus physical characteristics for the minor collectors (for example, they have a centerline while other nearby streets don't). In that case I will leave some of them as residential. I didn't mark every road with a centerline as tertiary in Salt Lake City. Many may be considered local roads and not collectors by the city and/or the state. I'm arguing that it's useful to distinguish those from minor residential streets. Yes it would be, and I am not disagreeing with that. Did you not also ask for advice on what to do without the extra classification? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] is tourism a good category for everything cultural?
2010/8/22 Claudius Henrichs claudiu...@gmx.de: tourism=artwork + artwork_type=sculpture because of the quote above I'm raising the question: is tourism a good top-category? I think in many cases it is not. Even hotels are only sometimes related to tourism, while others are related to business. The wiki states: Places and things of specific interest to tourists IMHO neither artwork, nor museums, nor picnic-sites and the least zoos are of specific interest to tourists. I'd very much like to see a toplevel-tag cultural (and probably another one accomodation). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: I'm tagging my hometown and saw that Map features doesn't have any tag to mark open air stages. I know lot of open air stages are one time effort (for example, festivals), but there are lot of permanent ones (made of stone, wood, etc.), especially in Europe. leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? a similar item from the 19th Century is called a bandstand do they have a tag yet? otherwise I would consider them equivalent and tag them the same ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
2010/8/23 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/8/23 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com: Hi! I'm tagging my hometown and saw that Map features doesn't have any tag to mark open air stages. I know lot of open air stages are one time effort (for example, festivals), but there are lot of permanent ones (made of stone, wood, etc.), especially in Europe. leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? I can point you to 2 examples in Berlin, which I haven't checked for actual tagging but might be an example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.515502lon=13.229589zoom=18layers=M http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.46212lon=13.545709zoom=18layers=M It uses building=yes, which isn't wrong, but not explict. I think it is worth to introduce new tag. Cheers, Peter. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
2010/8/23 Liz ed...@billiau.net: On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: I'm tagging my hometown and saw that Map features doesn't have any tag to mark open air stages. I know lot of open air stages are one time effort (for example, festivals), but there are lot of permanent ones (made of stone, wood, etc.), especially in Europe. leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? a similar item from the 19th Century is called a bandstand do they have a tag yet? otherwise I would consider them equivalent and tag them the same Not slipping into details, yes, it's the same. Open_air_stage I think is more generic and more to point. Cheers, Peter. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
2010/8/23 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: highway=unclassified in my experience is essentially highway=residential outside a residential area. Not exactly. An 'unclassified' is a road to connect some neighborhoods or towns. It should be a connection between roads of a higher class (tertiary, secondary) but often used only by locals. It could be found in the rural and urban area. A 'residential' is a road only with originating traffic (people living there, delivering service, ...). Nobody who wants to drive from town A to town C, will use a residential road in town B. You will find residential roads in residental, commercial or industrial areas. Ciao André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] is tourism a good category for everything cultural?
2010/8/23 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/8/22 Claudius Henrichs claudiu...@gmx.de: tourism=artwork + artwork_type=sculpture because of the quote above I'm raising the question: is tourism a good top-category? I think in many cases it is not. Even hotels are only sometimes related to tourism, while others are related to business. The wiki states: Places and things of specific interest to tourists IMHO neither artwork, nor museums, nor picnic-sites and the least zoos are of specific interest to tourists. I'd very much like to see a toplevel-tag cultural (and probably another one accomodation). But does it matter? After long discussion about emergency I'm not so sure. Yes, things which are can be interesting to tourists are mostly cultural. But they don't exclude each other, so where is problem? It is still matter how map is rendered and which data are selected to be viewed. In fact, culture is so overwhelmingly general word, that it can be anything. I would avoid to use it. It would help to see which old tags you think must be under new cultural toplevel tag. Cheers, Peter. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
On 23/08/2010 10:54, Liz wrote: On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: I'm tagging my hometown and saw that Map features doesn't have any tag to mark open air stages. I know lot of open air stages are one time effort (for example, festivals), but there are lot of permanent ones (made of stone, wood, etc.), especially in Europe. leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? a similar item from the 19th Century is called a bandstand do they have a tag yet? otherwise I would consider them equivalent and tag them the same http://osm.org/go/0ERWvVy24-- I tagged building=bandstand, but I know of numerous others so a tag in its own right would be good. I can think of at least four different things like this: - the Victorian bandstand as above, - a stage where theatre is performed (Covent Garden - the performance area, not the Opera) - an orchestra stage (which might be the same thing, or might be exclusive) - I have in mind the one on the banks of the Charles River in Boston. Is this in fact different from a bandstand except in scale? Clearly at a high level no and at a deeper level yes. - a historic amphitheatre still used for contemporary productions - like the one at Orange in France Also, doesn't the Parthenon has a permanent theatrical seating area for the Son et lumiere displays, so there's no stage but there is an auditorium. David ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Nathan Edgars II wrote: You will find residential roads in residental, commercial or industrial areas. This seems very wrong to me. Can I get input from others? you may. The categories have strange names and are used differently in different jurisdictions so I map residential roads in residential, commercial and industrial areas and put unclassified roads in rural areas While there would be scope for a greater granularity in the roads classification that would result in great upheaval for mappers ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:19 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Nathan Edgars II wrote: You will find residential roads in residental, commercial or industrial areas. This seems very wrong to me. Can I get input from others? you may. The categories have strange names and are used differently in different jurisdictions so I map residential roads in residential, commercial and industrial areas and put unclassified roads in rural areas While there would be scope for a greater granularity in the roads classification that would result in great upheaval for mappers If that's so, why do we have residential at all? Why not just use unclassified? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
2010/8/23 David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com: On 23/08/2010 10:54, Liz wrote: On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: I'm tagging my hometown and saw that Map features doesn't have any tag to mark open air stages. I know lot of open air stages are one time effort (for example, festivals), but there are lot of permanent ones (made of stone, wood, etc.), especially in Europe. leisure = openair_stage or leisure=open_air_stage? a similar item from the 19th Century is called a bandstand do they have a tag yet? otherwise I would consider them equivalent and tag them the same http://osm.org/go/0ERWvVy24-- I tagged building=bandstand, but I know of numerous others so a tag in its own right would be good. I can think of at least four different things like this: - the Victorian bandstand as above, - a stage where theatre is performed (Covent Garden - the performance area, not the Opera) - an orchestra stage (which might be the same thing, or might be exclusive) - I have in mind the one on the banks of the Charles River in Boston. Is this in fact different from a bandstand except in scale? Clearly at a high level no and at a deeper level yes. - a historic amphitheatre still used for contemporary productions - like the one at Orange in France Also, doesn't the Parthenon has a permanent theatrical seating area for the Son et lumiere displays, so there's no stage but there is an auditorium. David Ok, I went with building=bandstand. Anyone for creating proposal feature or edit it stright down in Map features? Cheers, Peter. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.comwrote: If that's so, why do we have residential at all? Why not just use unclassified? 'residential' was originaly created for residential areas only. But many contributors use it extensively for all minor urban roads. So I just consider 'residential' and 'unclassified' as equal (although personally I use 'residential' only for its original purpose). Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minorurban/suburban collectors?
I can understand the need for distinction, however. Many suburban areas have the streets laid out in a tree structure, rather than a grid. The feeder streets that are the main routes into and out of the neighborhoods have residences along them, but generally wider than the side-streets, and sometimes have a higher speed limit. Sometimes these streets will have a mix of residences, small businesses, and professional offices such as dentist's offices and doctor's offices. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minorurban/suburban collectors? From :mailto:riedel.an...@gmail.com Date :Mon Aug 23 05:59:20 America/Chicago 2010 2010/8/23 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: If that's so, why do we have residential at all? Why not just use unclassified? 'residential' was originaly created for residential areas only. But many contributors use it extensively for all minor urban roads. So I just consider 'residential' and 'unclassified' as equal (although personally I use 'residential' only for its original purpose). I see a difference in the connection level: (top-down) ... tertiary - unclassified - residential - service ... BTW: you will find mostly all 'residentials' in the build-up area. André ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
2010/8/23 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: Hell no. That would be a parking lane, not suitable for cycling. Picture a typical bike lane; now remove all signage and markings calling it a bike lane. Here's an example: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.332798,-81.491435spn=0.001929,0.00515t=kz=19layer=ccbll=28.332797,-81.491264panoid=s34bEpDWqe-ThdTF0X38uQcbp=12,103.59,,0,2.84 what does actually make you believe it is intended for bicycles if there is no signs and no road markings? Couldn't it just as well be for horses, skateboards, pedestrians, snow mobiles, motorbikes, dogs or whatever? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
On 23/08/2010 15:31, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2010/8/23 Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com: Hell no. That would be a parking lane, not suitable for cycling. Picture a typical bike lane; now remove all signage and markings calling it a bike lane. Here's an example: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.332798,-81.491435spn=0.001929,0.00515t=kz=19layer=ccbll=28.332797,-81.491264panoid=s34bEpDWqe-ThdTF0X38uQcbp=12,103.59,,0,2.84 what does actually make you believe it is intended for bicycles if there is no signs and no road markings? Couldn't it just as well be for horses, skateboards, pedestrians, snow mobiles, motorbikes, dogs or whatever? Having stayed in a hotel just north of where that picture was taken I can say that snowmobiles would be unlikely there! Large humanoid mice would be a possibility though... Sometimes you don't need a sign to tell what something is for. Near where I live there's an equestrian crossing (think light-controlled pedestrian crossing, but with the buttons high up so horseriders can easily reach). There's no sign saying horse riders please cross here, but given that the other options would be people on stilts or penny-farthing riders it seems fair to assume that horseriders were the target market. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] is tourism a good category for everything cultural?
2010/8/23 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com: 2010/8/23 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/8/22 Claudius Henrichs claudiu...@gmx.de: I'd very much like to see a toplevel-tag cultural (and probably another one accomodation). In fact, culture is so overwhelmingly general word, that it can be anything. I would avoid to use it. actually I chose it because it is quite generic and there is a lot of feature which best fits in there IMHO (libraries, museums, artwork, theatres, cinemas, etc.) It would help to see which old tags you think must be under new cultural toplevel tag. For museums but especially for artwork like sculptures and mosaics (the description is kind of suboptimal on the wiki, see: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dartwork ) I do despute that they belong to tourism. Why should a sculpture be associated with tourism? But also the already mentioned picnic-site and zoos have the least to do with tourism. Almost any feature can on the other hand be associated with tourism (beach, river, lake, forest, tree, mountains, fountains, churches, ...), even prisons ;-). Another point is that we already have leisure. Tourism is probably a subclass of leisure, some of the tourism-features might fit better in leisure (e.g. picnic-site, zoo). (but it can also be seen the other way round: leisure is a subclass of tourism, see below). The World Tourism Organization defines tourists as people who travel to and stay in places outside their usual environment for more than twenty-four (24) hours and not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes not related to the exercise of an activity remunerated from within the place visited. I would not use tourism in OSM at all, as it can easily be devided into the things that are now (partly) subsummized: accomodation, eating and drinking, places of historical and/or cultural interest, amenities like picnic places, natural features, leisure features like zoos, etc. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
On 08/23/2010 09:35 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: btw.: this is not what we call lane in OSM, it is a (cycleway?)=track. I would actually consider to map it separately (with its own way) and not just attached with tags on the street, because it is physically divided from the road (basically the same rules apply as for dual carriageways). He’s not talking about the sidewalk. He’s talking about the “cycle” lane. I think this link may work to show it explicitly: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=klayer=ccbll=28.332797,-81.491264panoid=s34bEpDWqe-ThdTF0X38uQcbp=12,132,,2,18.46ie=UTF8hq=ll=28.332798,-81.491435spn=0.001171,0.002411z=19 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
2010/8/23 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com: Ok, I went with building=bandstand. Anyone for creating proposal feature or edit it stright down in Map features? you don't need a proposal for user-defined building tags. They are IMHO on the other hand not what you really want. An openair-arena is more than just the bandstand. You might also want to tag associate the parking, the fence and gates, the visitor space, the toilets and other. Also the ones I was pointing to were IMHO far too big to be called bandstands. At least what I read in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandstand and see in the pictures this is for fairly small stages, it is probably not for something festival-size. Also it seems limited to musical purposes, theatrical plays and the like don't seem to be included. It is also limited (at least according to wikipedia) to circular or semicircular structures. If you continue searching Wikipedia, you'll also find: sylvan theatre which is though limited to spaces in green areas like parks and woods. But IMHO it might somehow better fit for your purpose. Why not stick to your originally proposed open_air_stage? It is generic and easily understandable for non-natives as well. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Permanent open air stage
2010/8/23 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Also the ones I was pointing to were IMHO far too big to be called bandstands. some pictures here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Waldb%C3%BChne http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindl-B%C3%BChne_Wuhlheide cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging natural borders
Thanks Michael and Liz. I've been thinking about this for a while, and putting off mapping many of the streams/rivers in the Sierra Mountains because of this uncertainty. It seems that there is no general consensus, so I would like to propose what I think is the best trade-off: I think that if we map the park/city/etc boundary as a separate way than the river/ridge/etc, we give ourselves greater flexibility over time: 1. We don't know for certain if the boundary is defined as the river/stream center forever, or if it was defined as the center at a certain point in time. 2. When the city boundary changes for political reasons, or the river changes course due to erosion, it is much easier to represent this without having to split the natural way from the boundary polygon. 3. Most renderers draw line features on top of polygon features making the rendering nicer looking 4. I don't think a simple mathematical offset is the best way to represent the two ways, but rather a more natural mapping of the natural feature: peak-to-peak or following the river, etc. Sound reasonable? -Erik I'd prefer relations. Duplicating the line to offset is borderline micro-mapping; I don't think micro-mapping is practical in a lot of cases right now. On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Erik G. Burrows e...@erikburrows.comwrote: I have several cases where a border polygon (national park, wilderness, etc.) is defined based on a natural feature, such as a stream/crestline/etc. What is the preferred way to handle this dual-purpose way? Splitting the border way, creating a relation of the border pieces, and adding the natural= tag to the correct pieces seems reasonable to me, but I want to make sure that is correct, and will render properly. Depends how the border is defined. Is it the stream centerline? One bank? A parallel offset line on one side? (The latter is probably more applicable to canals where the property line goes beyond the water.) In the cases I'm dealing with now, the boundaries are on the stream, which is not defined anywhere as having width, just a line. -- If you are flammable and have legs, you're never blocking a fire exit. -Mitch Hedberg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- If you are flammable and have legs, you're never blocking a fire exit. -Mitch Hedberg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
On Monday 23 August 2010 12:59:20 André Riedel wrote: I see a difference in the connection level: (top-down) ... tertiary - unclassified - residential - service ... I agree with the importance ordering. That is what I am using too. Except I skip residential, when it it is not a residential area. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Another classification needed for minor urban/suburban collectors?
2010/8/23 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:02 AM, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: You will find residential roads in residental, commercial or industrial areas. This seems very wrong to me. Can I get input from others? +1, I agree with André that unclassified roads can IMHO be found in residential areas and are to be considered bigger/more important than residential roads, but I don't agree that thay occur in areas where nobody lives or where living is not the main purpose. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
2010/8/23 Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net: He’s not talking about the sidewalk. He’s talking about the “cycle” lane. I think this link may work to show it explicitly: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=klayer=ccbll=28.332797,-81.491264panoid=s34bEpDWqe-ThdTF0X38uQcbp=12,132,,2,18.46ie=UTF8hq=ll=28.332798,-81.491435spn=0.001171,0.002411z=19 OK, sorry, I'm too much used to red=cycleway (in Europe it is quite often like this) and there is no signs either. Probably I'd suggest to cycle on the sidewalk anyway, doesn't seem to be any pedestrian around ;-) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
On 23/08/2010 19:13, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2010/8/23 Alex Mauerha...@hawkesnest.net: He’s not talking about the sidewalk. He’s talking about the “cycle” lane. I think this link may work to show it explicitly: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=klayer=ccbll=28.332797,-81.491264panoid=s34bEpDWqe-ThdTF0X38uQcbp=12,132,,2,18.46ie=UTF8hq=ll=28.332798,-81.491435spn=0.001171,0.002411z=19 OK, sorry, I'm too much used to red=cycleway (in Europe it is quite often like this) and there is no signs either. Probably I'd suggest to cycle on the sidewalk anyway, doesn't seem to be any pedestrian around ;-) I think I'm with Martin here; especially since the right filter lane crosses over it. Seems downright dangerous. Is this a typical scenario? Dave F. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] ele-key for lakes / water bodies and glaciers
How do you use the key ele for water covered areas like lakes? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ele I think I would use it to tag the height of the ground (solid) part, and not the water surface, because this is what I would expect a terrain model would display. On the other hand for glaciers and other permafrost areas it might be easier (and the expected thing) to tag the surface of the ice and not the ground below. Anyone with experience here? I think we should add some precision to the wiki definition. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
On 08/23/2010 01:46 PM, Dave F. wrote: I think I'm with Martin here; especially since the right filter lane crosses over it. Seems downright dangerous. Is this a typical scenario? Yes. At least in my town, all the right-turn lanes are to the right of the cycle lane. Otherwise you'd have people turning right in front of cyclists who are going straight. (Cyclists turning right should be using the right-turn lane) —Alex Mauer “hawke” signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
Here in Nashville, Tennessee, USA I have seen instances where there is no marked right-turn lane, so that the bike lane continues across the intersection (meaning that cars are expected to turn right across the bike lane); instances where the bike-lane markings stop shortly before the intersection, and you have a right-turn lane instead of a bike lane (the most common situation); and even one rather poorly-designed case where the right-turn lane and the bicycle lane cross each other in an X, so that, once you reach the intersection, the bike lane is actually between the driving lanes and the right-turn lane. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane? From :mailto:dave...@madasafish.com Date :Mon Aug 23 13:46:52 America/Chicago 2010 On 23/08/2010 19:13, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2010/8/23 Alex Mauerha...@hawkesnest.net: He’s not talking about the sidewalk. He’s talking about the “cycle” lane. I think this link may work to show it explicitly: http://maps.google.com/maps?t=klayer=ccbll=28.332797,-81.491264panoid=s34bEpDWqe-ThdTF0X38uQcbp=12,132,,2,18.46ie=UTF8hq=ll=28.332798,-81.491435spn=0.001171,0.002411z=19 OK, sorry, I'm too much used to red=cycleway (in Europe it is quite often like this) and there is no signs either. Probably I'd suggest to cycle on the sidewalk anyway, doesn't seem to be any pedestrian around ;-) I think I'm with Martin here; especially since the right filter lane crosses over it. Seems downright dangerous. Is this a typical scenario? Dave F. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] is tourism a good category for everything cultural?
Martin, So its ok to shift stuff from tourism but not shift stuff from amenity to emergency? On 8/24/10, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/23 Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com: 2010/8/23 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/8/22 Claudius Henrichs claudiu...@gmx.de: I'd very much like to see a toplevel-tag cultural (and probably another one accomodation). In fact, culture is so overwhelmingly general word, that it can be anything. I would avoid to use it. actually I chose it because it is quite generic and there is a lot of feature which best fits in there IMHO (libraries, museums, artwork, theatres, cinemas, etc.) It would help to see which old tags you think must be under new cultural toplevel tag. For museums but especially for artwork like sculptures and mosaics (the description is kind of suboptimal on the wiki, see: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dartwork ) I do despute that they belong to tourism. Why should a sculpture be associated with tourism? But also the already mentioned picnic-site and zoos have the least to do with tourism. Almost any feature can on the other hand be associated with tourism (beach, river, lake, forest, tree, mountains, fountains, churches, ...), even prisons ;-). Another point is that we already have leisure. Tourism is probably a subclass of leisure, some of the tourism-features might fit better in leisure (e.g. picnic-site, zoo). (but it can also be seen the other way round: leisure is a subclass of tourism, see below). The World Tourism Organization defines tourists as people who travel to and stay in places outside their usual environment for more than twenty-four (24) hours and not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes not related to the exercise of an activity remunerated from within the place visited. I would not use tourism in OSM at all, as it can easily be devided into the things that are now (partly) subsummized: accomodation, eating and drinking, places of historical and/or cultural interest, amenities like picnic places, natural features, leisure features like zoos, etc. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Sent from my mobile device ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:31 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/23 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: Hell no. That would be a parking lane, not suitable for cycling. Picture a typical bike lane; now remove all signage and markings calling it a bike lane. Here's an example: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.332798,-81.491435spn=0.001929,0.00515t=kz=19layer=ccbll=28.332797,-81.491264panoid=s34bEpDWqe-ThdTF0X38uQcbp=12,103.59,,0,2.84 what does actually make you believe it is intended for bicycles if there is no signs and no road markings? Couldn't it just as well be for horses, skateboards, pedestrians, snow mobiles, motorbikes, dogs or whatever? The way the solid line becomes dashed at the beginning of the right turn lane, with a solid line on each side of the narrow strip approaching the intersection, is standard bike lane design in Florida and one of several recommended by the feds: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/05085/chapt15.cfm#fig1511 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] is tourism a good category for everything cultural?
Am 23.08.2010 23:37, schrieb John Smith: Martin, So its ok to shift stuff from tourism but not shift stuff from amenity to emergency? No it's not ok to wiki-fiddling emergency, or tourism, or cultural or whatever - especially not, if a lot of people actually disagree with that change. I've seen that you're trying to win a battle against the state of the art*, seems you think it's a good idea to confuse a lot of people by editing the wiki. OSM is *not* about seeking the nicest possible tag name, it's about people tagging things. Regards, ULFL * http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:emergency%3Dfire_hydrantaction=history ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Hell no. Mind cutting out the inflammatory language? That would be a parking lane, not suitable for cycling. http://www.gleneira.vic.gov.au/Files/draft_Glen_Eira_Bicycle_Strategy_v3.2.pdf See page 16, and repeated references to bike/parking lanes. Some have painted bike symbols, some don't. It doesn't make much difference. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Hell no. Mind cutting out the inflammatory language? Hell yes. That would be a parking lane, not suitable for cycling. http://www.gleneira.vic.gov.au/Files/draft_Glen_Eira_Bicycle_Strategy_v3.2.pdf See page 16, and repeated references to bike/parking lanes. Some have painted bike symbols, some don't. It doesn't make much difference. I accept that they exist. I don't accept that they're good design. But there's really no point in discussing this here. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ele-key for lakes / water bodies and glaciers
At 2010-08-23 11:52, =?UTF-8?Q?M=E2=88=A1rtin_Koppenhoefer?= wrote: How do you use the key ele for water covered areas like lakes? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ele I think I would use it to tag the height of the ground (solid) part, and not the water surface, because this is what I would expect a terrain model would display. I would expect the opposite - the elevation of the water surface above sea level. It appears that Google Earth does it this way (e.g. Lake Arrowhead ~ 34.258476, -117.182861). depth=* should then be used to tag the depth of the floor below the water surface. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] is tourism a good category for everything cultural?
On 24 August 2010 08:56, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: No it's not ok to wiki-fiddling emergency, or tourism, or cultural or whatever - especially not, if a lot of people actually disagree with that change. It's not about confusing anyone, especially if most people use presets they won't be confused at all. I've seen that you're trying to win a battle against the state of the art*, seems you think it's a good idea to confuse a lot of people by editing the wiki. What about when a lot of people agree with the change? OSM is *not* about seeking the nicest possible tag name, it's about people tagging things. Exactly, by using a little grouping it makes it easier to find similar tags without needing to search through a million different amenity tags. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Mapnik reender
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, just.st...@lesve.org wrote: Claudius Henrichs wrote, On 2010-08-22 18:31: Am 22.08.2010 16:20, LeSve: How should I map a statue (Monument) so the reendering will se it. Specially in mapnik version. Maybe it is not possible ? /LeSve Depending on the nature of the statue use either historic=memorial or tourism=artwork + artwork_type=sculpture Claudius To have it work I used tourism = attraction historic = =memorial In that case it come as both as icon and name /LeSve You have happily broken one of the written rules - tagging something so that it renders Did you consider a request for a new icon and a render of that icon for the statue? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
