Re: [Tagging] dog toilets

[Tijmen Stam]

On 21-11-16 09:02, joost schouppe wrote:

Upon further thought on this subject which doubtlessly keeps all of you
out of your sleep, here's a short analysis with my conclusion:

dog_toilet:
plus: it is very clear what it means, even for non-native speakers
min: * we would need cat_toilet, hamster_toilet etc over time.
* technically, a toilet is something to sit down on, made out of
porcelain with a flushing system etc. So technically, a dog "toilet"
isn't a toilet.


* That is a water closet you're talking about

A toilet can be a bucket or just two steps with a hole in the floor. Or 
to be more correct: the toilet originally was a table with mirror where 
a women could dress up. This evolved into a private dressing room for a 
woman, where bathing as also often done, then toilets were installed in 
those, then into the toilet room, after which the toilet (bowl) got the 
name.



potty_area:
plus: easily expandable to show which animals are welcomed
min: it's eufemistic babytalk, not as descriptive, especially for
non-native speakers

pet_relief_area:
plus: easily expandable
min: "relief" is very eufemistic, and doesn't even show up in many
dictionaries as associated with defecation. Non-natives might easily
think this is something completely different

So I would like to propose a completely new value: amenity=pet_toilet.


+1

I happened to come across one this weekend (never saw one before), 
wanted to add a photo to the proposal but the wiki refuses editing atm.




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Re: [Tagging] Proper way to tag highways located in "dangerous" areas

[Ralph Dell]

-Original Message-
From: Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2016 6:39 PM
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Proper way to tag highways located in "dangerous" areas

Hi,

On 11/17/2016 08:42 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
> I don't think it's appropriate to put into the main toolchain or map 
> data in itself; would be better off as your own specialized mashup 
> keeping in mind that enormous can of worms...

I agree; there are lots of other interesting things that might be useful for 
routing, for example how likely it is to step into dog poo, how rainy the 
weather is in an area, how loud during rush hour or how dark at night; how 
accident-prone an intersection or how beautiful the landscape. Some of these 
are clearly non objective, others can be pseudo-objective like the crime 
figures but they'll often be biased, or not comparable across jurisdictions or 
even cities... I think adding any of this to OSM would move us away from being 
a database of easily observable facts, into the realm where people will fight 
endlessly about what the facts really are.

Let's not go there. Let's stick to "if two people cannot agree what to put in 
OSM, let them meet at the place in question, see things with their own eyes, 
and settle the argument". Anything that cannot be resolved that way (or, by 
extension, through a photo or sending someone else to go and look) will only 
cause trouble.

+1
For all the tagging that can be done, dangerous or similar is just a terrible 
idea.

Bye
Frederik


--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Tagging] dog toilets

[Hakuch]

On 21.11.2016 09:02, joost schouppe wrote:
> So I would like to propose a completely new value: amenity=pet_toilet.
> It is as descriptive as the best here, but easily expandable. It is a place
> where pets go to the toilet. Obviously they don't have a sit-down toilet.
> But "going to the toilet" is a very common euphemism - to the degree that
> there are eufemisms to not having to utter the word toilet (going to the
> bathroom).

+1, especially for "pet" because it describes the target group better
than "animal". I can live with the toilet thing

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Re: [Tagging] dog toilets

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

I am not convinced we will need a lot of other values for specific animals
in the context of amenity=pet_toilet.
Things can always be structured into more generic main tags and additional
subtags (without which the main tag does not make sufficient sense to
understand the thing). E.g. we could have come up with a tag like
amenity=communication_infrastructure and then have subtags like
communication_infrastructure=post_box,
communication_infrastructure=telephone, etc.
but we haven't.
amenity=pet_toilet would be a good tag if we were to expect a significant
amount of different pets for whom pet toilets will be set up. What I expect
is that most of these will be for dogs and a few will be for cats. That's
it. No places to bring your gold fish or canary bird are likely to be built
anywhere. Bigger animals like horses, camels, elephants, cows, etc. will
hardly fall under the "pet" category (and are unlikely to use any kind of
toilet anyway).
Rather than having a complicated theme requiring 2 hierarchical tags (at
least) to be set, I'd go with a simple:
amenity=dog_toilet
and maybe if required
amenity=cat_toilet
and if you really need,
amenity=pet_toilet (for mixed places, with subtags as required)

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] dog toilets

[joost schouppe]

Upon further thought on this subject which doubtlessly keeps all of you out
of your sleep, here's a short analysis with my conclusion:

dog_toilet:
plus: it is very clear what it means, even for non-native speakers
min: * we would need cat_toilet, hamster_toilet etc over time.
* technically, a toilet is something to sit down on, made out of porcelain
with a flushing system etc. So technically, a dog "toilet" isn't a toilet.

potty_area:
plus: easily expandable to show which animals are welcomed
min: it's eufemistic babytalk, not as descriptive, especially for
non-native speakers

pet_relief_area:
plus: easily expandable
min: "relief" is very eufemistic, and doesn't even show up in many
dictionaries as associated with defecation. Non-natives might easily think
this is something completely different

So I would like to propose a completely new value: amenity=pet_toilet.
It is as descriptive as the best here, but easily expandable. It is a place
where pets go to the toilet. Obviously they don't have a sit-down toilet.
But "going to the toilet" is a very common euphemism - to the degree that
there are eufemisms to not having to utter the word toilet (going to the
bathroom).

Implied would be dog=designated, as most of these things are built for dogs
only. Of course better to add the tag.
Other pets could be added with cat=yes, etc. Maybe even toddler=permissive
for that Japanese example :)


[1]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37176813

2016-11-10 9:37 GMT+01:00 joost schouppe :

> Thanks for the link John!
>
> Pet relief areas as described in the OPs mail are exactly "dog toilet".
> The the discussion went everywhere :)
>
> Maybe amenity=pet_relief_area is the better tag: it's just as descriptive
> as amenity=dog_toilet, but can be expanded to indicate which animals can
> use it. I think we can safely say that amenity=potty_area is the least
> preferable.
>
> The only edge case I saw in the previous thread is where there isn't
> really any infrastructure, it's more like a suggested area to let your
> animals do their thing. But I suppose an extra tag would do there?
>
> 2016-11-10 1:19 GMT+01:00 John Willis :
>
>>
>> On 9 Nov 2016, at 11:24 PM, joost schouppe 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Many cities have special little areas which are specifically meant to be
>> used as a toilet area for dogs.
>>
>>
>> Sounds like "pet relief areas" you find on motorways. Getting the dog out
>> of the car is usually to let them "get relief" by taking a poo. Sounds like
>> a similar place. Our nearby rest area has statues of dogs and cats peeing
>> in a small grassy area.
>> https://goo.gl/maps/gdArtdfbxcB2
>>
>> This tag was discussed on the mailing list last year , but I cannot
>> remember what came of it.
>>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2015-May/024673.html
>>
>> Javbw
>>
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>
>
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>



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