Re: [Tagging] Center turning lanes: centre_turn_lane=yes method vs. lanes:both_ways method

[Paul Johnson]

Even though the editors and at least one major consumer handle the tagging
the way I mentioned, and not centre_turn_lane=*?  FryIsNotSureIfSerious.jpg

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Tristan Anderson <
andersontris...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> In that case the developers at Osmand have some work to do.
>
> All we do is provide the data.  Individual consumers can choose whether
> they want to use it.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Paul Johnson 
> *Sent:* February 19, 2017 6:24 AM
> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] Center turning lanes: centre_turn_lane=yes
> method vs. lanes:both_ways method
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Tristan Anderson <
> andersontris...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've always used
>>
>>
>> lanes=5
>>
>> centre_turn_lane=yes
>>
>>
>> as a shortcut that implies
>>
>>
>> lanes=5
>> lanes:forward=2
>> lanes:both_ways=1
>> lanes:backward=2
>> turn:lanes:both_ways=left
>>
>> It's just a way to reduce five tags to two in a common, special-case
>> situation.  Lanes can be any odd number greater than one.
>>
>
> I'm not sure of any data consumers that would assume that shorthand.  I
> know Osmand correctly recognizes the latter, but would not parse the
> former.
>
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[John Willis]

Javbw
> On Feb 22, 2017, at 10:13 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> If you want more detail about the port (typology / properties), please 
> explain what should be added (you'll likely know better then me what you 
> need, as you have many of them).
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Seaway

I will read up on what is mappable currently and compare to features I have 
seen that are mappable - all of these little towns have similar infrastructure 
for many 10m fishing boats, and additional infrastructure for larger 20-30m 
boats in some places. 

The one thing I need to check on is... a boat "pull-out" area. It is not a 
dock/pier and not a boat launch. Launches are for cars to get boats off their 
trailer, and mappable for people to know where to take their boat to get it 
into/out of a body of water. These pull-out areas are long stretches of 
(concrete) shoreline dedicated to pulling small and medium sized boats out of 
the water for parking /maintenance for smaller little boats. I'm sure in other 
countries where there is less infrastructure, this is just a beach or 
shoreline, but these are purpose-built and dedicated features. Maybe there is 
an existing key, but this is a common feature for tiny fishing villages I would 
like to map, like this one (my picture). 

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/javbw/11091200666/in/set-72157638113676925/

I know these are small things for small villages, and mapping for a big 
intermodal container ports is more important, but there are more of these 
little places to map overall. 

Javbw 



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Re: [Tagging] A place where letters & parcels are sent to be sorted so they can be delivered?

[Bill Ricker]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On 22 February 2017 at 19:56, Dave F  wrote:
>
> > A place where letters & parcels are sent to be sorted so they can then be
> > delivered?


​Here in USA, the two serving my area are General Mail Facility Boston and
Fields Corner Postal Annex ​

​(which is an annex to the local Fields Corner Post Office, which no longer
has route delivery operating from it, but has full window service and
Postal Boxes, which the Annex does not).
 ​
-- 
Bill Ricker
bill.n1...@gmail.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 22 Feb 2017, at 20:52, Mark Wagner  wrote:
> 
> River.  It's got facilities for handling bulk cargo, containerized
> cargo, oil, and natural gas.  It's got at least two cruise-line
> terminals, three public marinas, a number of sightseeing-cruise docks,
> one ferry dock (cars and passengers), at least one ro-ro dock for
> trains, a coast-guard station, facilities to handle things like
> airplane parts being shipped to Boeing, and I'm sure there's at least
> one fish-processing plant in there somewhere.  There are at least two
> drydocks, support docks for various specialist ships, what looks like a
> gas station for freighters, and similar facilities.
> 
> A modern industrial port is a very complicated place


yes, I agree. There is typically also a concentration of landbased 
infrastructure like railways and motorways.

The presence of all these different ports and functions close to each other 
doesn't invalidate the proposal IMHO. you wouldn't want to draw a big blob 
somewhere with i-can-handle-everything =yes tags, but would rather want 
distinct entities for these (independent) functional parts.

thank you for pointing out I have missed gas cargo so far.

Regarding the fish processing plant: would you consider it part of the fishing 
port? Or is it an industrial area, somehow related, close to the fishing port? 

cheers,
Martin 






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Re: [Tagging] A place where letters & parcels are sent to be sorted so they can be delivered?

[Andy Mabbett]

On 22 February 2017 at 19:56, Dave F  wrote:

> A place where letters & parcels are sent to be sorted so they can then be
> delivered?
>
> In the Britain I think they'd normally be called a sorting office. but
> there's only 21 & 2 for postal_sorting_office from tag info

Once they were. My local one is now, formally, known as "Great Barr
Delivery Office". You can search for them by nearby postcodes,

http://www.royalmail.com/delivery-and-collection-office-finder

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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[Tagging] A place where letters & parcels are sent to be sorted so they can be delivered?

[Dave F]

Hi

A place where letters & parcels are sent to be sorted so they can then 
be delivered?


In the Britain I think they'd normally be called a sorting office. but 
there's only 21 & 2 for postal_sorting_office from tag info


Is post_depot the same thing? (313 wordwide/212 GB)

Either tag doesn't seem a great number. Is there a more popular one in use?

DaveF

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[Mark Wagner]

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 16:17:12 +0100
Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> 2017-02-22 15:01 GMT+01:00 Malcolm Herring
> :
> 
> > In general ports are not of singular usage. Some shipping services
> > may terminate at a particular port, but others may not. There may
> > also be differing service types carried on at one port.
> >
> > Therefore any attribute tags must allow for multiple values.
> >  
> 
> 
> OK, I was not sure, so I will change the cargo port types to several
> cargo handling capability tags (I had this already in mind, although
> the pictures I had looked at seemed to refer to quite specialized
> facilities). Is this applying to cruise ship / ferries as well? Are
> there fishing ports which also have cruise ships or ferries leaving /
> arriving? I haven't seen this so far, but my experiences with ports
> are somehow limited.
> 
> Maybe we could also have some capacity tags here? Like the maximum
> cargo / passengers a port is able to handle in a given time?
> 
> Are there mixed cargo / passenger ports? Of course you might find them
> close to each other, but wouldn't it make sense to map 2 ports in
> these cases, one for cargo and one for passengers?

Estimating from aerial photos, the Port of Seattle stretches along
about six miles of waterfront plus another five miles of the Duwamish
River.  It's got facilities for handling bulk cargo, containerized
cargo, oil, and natural gas.  It's got at least two cruise-line
terminals, three public marinas, a number of sightseeing-cruise docks,
one ferry dock (cars and passengers), at least one ro-ro dock for
trains, a coast-guard station, facilities to handle things like
airplane parts being shipped to Boeing, and I'm sure there's at least
one fish-processing plant in there somewhere.  There are at least two
drydocks, support docks for various specialist ships, what looks like a
gas station for freighters, and similar facilities.

A modern industrial port is a very complicated place.

-- 
Mark

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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[Malcolm Herring]

In the port area where I live, fishing, ferries, cruises, general 
cargoes, oil and gas terminals, ship repairs, offshore support, wind 
turbine construction & shipment are all handled.



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Re: [Tagging] RFC: new key seaway for seabased transportation, ports, etc.

[althio]

Hello Martin, all,

I do not really have a mind on a key:seaway (or another main key) but
I do not see this as the main point of discussion so I commented for
the tagging of ports.
This is mainly based on my understanding of the wikipedia page.
Please see the discussion page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Seaway for
this attempt.

I hope this is relevant for your proposal.

-- althio

On 21 February 2017 at 19:34, Martin Koppenhoefer
 wrote:
> Please comment on:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Seaway
>
> Thank you,
> cheers,
> Martin Koppenhöfer
>
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-02-22 15:01 GMT+01:00 Malcolm Herring :

> In general ports are not of singular usage. Some shipping services may
> terminate at a particular port, but others may not. There may also be
> differing service types carried on at one port.
>
> Therefore any attribute tags must allow for multiple values.
>


OK, I was not sure, so I will change the cargo port types to several cargo
handling capability tags (I had this already in mind, although the pictures
I had looked at seemed to refer to quite specialized facilities). Is this
applying to cruise ship / ferries as well? Are there fishing ports which
also have cruise ships or ferries leaving / arriving? I haven't seen this
so far, but my experiences with ports are somehow limited.

Maybe we could also have some capacity tags here? Like the maximum cargo /
passengers a port is able to handle in a given time?

Are there mixed cargo / passenger ports? Of course you might find them
close to each other, but wouldn't it make sense to map 2 ports in these
cases, one for cargo and one for passengers?

Cheers,
Martin

PS: can we please continue in the RFC thread of the proposal? Thank you.
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[Malcolm Herring]

On 22/02/2017 13:13, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

What I haven't decided yet is whether to propose using a property like
seaway:terminal
=yes
to distinguish terminals (route endpoints) from other ports, or if we
use different main tags like this:
seaway=ferry_port or seaway=ferry_terminal


In general ports are not of singular usage. Some shipping services may 
terminate at a particular port, but others may not. There may also be 
differing service types carried on at one port.


Therefore any attribute tags must allow for multiple values.


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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-02-22 13:26 GMT+01:00 John Willis :

> Whenever this seaway key is "done" - please make a tagging example for
> ports and "fishing ports" with lots of detail - besides massive port
> facilities everyone knows about, I visit a lot of rural costal Japanese
> towns for taking pictures, which are usually built around a small "public"
> port facility, with modern breakwaters made recently after the big Tsunami
> - mapping the small ports correctly would be fun.



basically just draw the outline and add seaway=fishing_port, name=* etc. to
the object. If you can't draw the outline, use a node.
If you want more detail about the port (typology / properties), please
explain what should be added (you'll likely know better then me what you
need, as you have many of them).

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Seaway


What I haven't decided yet is whether to propose using a property like
seaway:terminal

=yes
to distinguish terminals (route endpoints) from other ports, or if we use
different main tags like this:
seaway=ferry_port or seaway=ferry_terminal


Second question: does it make sense to state something like "home port" or
"port of call" for cruise ports?


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] landuse=industrial with industrial=port

[John Willis]

Javbw

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 9:02 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> I also see these features, and there is already tagging available for many of 
> them (see the harbour page), but I wouldn't choose "landuse" for the feature.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting a landuse. I was saying that this landuse being 
discussed (landuse=industrial + whatever) on the land, along with the 
waterway/seamark features on water would be encompassed by a larger polygon 
with the seaway=port* representing the entire "port" "area-use". 

(*whatever key=value that ends up being) 

Whenever this seaway key is "done" - please make a tagging example for ports 
and "fishing ports" with lots of detail - besides massive port facilities 
everyone knows about, I visit a lot of rural costal Japanese towns for taking 
pictures, which are usually built around a small "public" port facility, with 
modern breakwaters made recently after the big Tsunami - mapping the small 
ports correctly would be fun. 

Javbw 
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