Re: [Tagging] Tagging a government job centre

[António Madeira via Tagging]

Seen by that perspective, I have to agree.
Anyway, maybe the wiki could be updated to reflect the entire scope of
the office=employment_agency

Thanks.


Às 06:32 de 10/10/2020, Tom Pfeifer escreveu:

As Volker said, office=employment_agency is the established tag.

office=government is wrong, since the employees in the job centre do
not govern.

The government might be the operator of the job centre, which can be
expressed in the operator tag,
e.g. operator=Government of Example County

tom

On 10.10.2020 09:21, Volker Schmidt wrote:

If you go to the (admittedly, very short) wiki page for
office=employment_agency, you find that the picture illustrating the
tag shows a German "jobcenter" of the Agentur fuer Arbeit, which is a
government agency.

So I think your starting assumption is not reflecting the actual tagging
This means also that your idea of creating a new "government" related
tag would be in conflict with the established tagging, at least in
Germany

Volker
(Italy)


 > On 10/10/2020 00:09, António Madeira via Tagging wrote:
 >> I was searching for a way of tagging a government job centre
and I found
 >> there's no suitable way of doing this.
 >> There's office=employment_agency which doesn't seem to fit
here, cause
 >> it seems to correspond to private companies who work with
this kind of
 >> services.



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[Tagging] bicycle lane on mini-rounabout

[Volker Schmidt]

How do I tag a bicycle lane (way.Type element on a mini-roundabout
(node-type element)?.
Example:
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/-yxlx8FNVBHgMC7LH9eFNA



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Re: [Tagging] railway=station areas

[Dave F via Tagging]

On 10/10/2020 00:34, Andrew Harvey wrote:



I believe most of this discussion is moot as the *vast* majority of
railway=stations are mapped as nodes:


I don't think that makes the point moot since nodes are just a quick 
first pass way to map a station,


railway=station is one of the earliest tags. Given the age of the 
project, I'm pretty sure we're beyond 'quick first pass'. especially in 
established countries.



eventually they should all be upgraded to areas.


It appears mappers have decided that's not what's best.


Tagging objects should be based on the understanding of what the
general
consumer of OSM accept it to be, not just a small group of "rail
enthusiasts" from Germany.


OSM should as much as possible try to remain agnostic towards a 
specific audience or use, we should strive to both be accurate and 
usable for both train drivers and public transport passengers.


See landuse=railway, railway=signal & railway=switch


This is not just a matter for rail enthusiasts from Germany.


Indeed.


 >the railway is from the rail network/infrastructure point of
view and
public
transit from the passenger point of view.

This seems to be a common misunderstanding by those advocating PTv2.


I'm not advocating PTv2, for a long time it just seemed like 
duplication of tags and a waste but if the ability to separate out the 
rail infrastructure from passenger viewpoint can be done with the 
tagging schema then that's maybe one advantage.


railway=station & PTv2 are separate schemas. They don't interact. If 
there's something missing in one, a tag's meaning can't be amended in 
the other. This is the misunderstanding.




No, it's because the public area is what most people consider to be a
'station'. (& most are mapped as nodes)


 but use a new tag for rail infrastructure so you can still correctly 
map the station for train drivers.


Why would train drivers, looking at OSM, need to have just a couple of 
signals enclosed inside a polygon?


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Re: [Tagging] What does bicycle=no on a node means?

[Emvee via Tagging]

I agree that splitting way and having short section as footway is also
correct tagging and
making data processing easier for router.


Normally splitting is not needed but yes, for uncommon/strange
situations the part of the way that is actually crossing the way can be
tagged with the needed access tags.

It not only makes it easier, brouter does currently does not support
evaluating access on a node in the context of the incoming and outgoing
way. I think that holds for other routers using openstreetmap data.


Though harder for other data consumers, for example detecting
of places where bicycle crossing should be created would be
significantly harder.


Good to think about data consumers!

The largest consumers of this data by far are routers. I do not see any
time soon and likely never other use as the majority of crossing is
still not mapped with highway=crossing/crossing=* and even the crossing
mapped such very few have bicycle=*

So make the life of routers hard/impossible while optimizing for some
future, imaginary data use?


But many highway=crossing bicycle=no exists and OSM Wiki should
document that also this
tagging scheme is used and what is its meaning as used by mappers.


Yes, it exists (although marginally) but by documenting it is implicitly
recommended and in this case it was explicitly recommended.

Or ... will somebody start documenting that routing a pedestrian/bicycle
route over a way that is not accessible is a good idea? (60.000
problems, see http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/errors/?item=3240)


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Re: [Tagging] Tagging a government job centre

[Tom Pfeifer]

As Volker said, office=employment_agency is the established tag.

office=government is wrong, since the employees in the job centre do not govern.

The government might be the operator of the job centre, which can be expressed 
in the operator tag,
e.g. operator=Government of Example County

tom

On 10.10.2020 09:21, Volker Schmidt wrote:
If you go to the (admittedly, very short) wiki page for office=employment_agency, you find that the 
picture illustrating the tag shows a German "jobcenter" of the Agentur fuer Arbeit, which is a 
government agency. 

So I think your starting assumption is not reflecting the actual tagging
This means also that your idea of creating a new "government" related tag would be in conflict with 
the established tagging, at least in Germany


Volker
(Italy)


 > On 10/10/2020 00:09, António Madeira via Tagging wrote:
 >> I was searching for a way of tagging a government job centre and I found
 >> there's no suitable way of doing this.
 >> There's office=employment_agency which doesn't seem to fit here, cause
 >> it seems to correspond to private companies who work with this kind of
 >> services.


 
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging a government job centre

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 10. Oct 2020, at 09:32, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> If you go to the (admittedly, very short) wiki page for 
> office=employment_agency, you find that the picture illustrating the tag 
> shows a German "jobcenter" of the Agentur fuer Arbeit, which is a government 
> agency.
> So I think your starting assumption is not reflecting the actual tagging
> This means also that your idea of creating a new "government" related tag 
> would be in conflict with the established tagging, at least in Germany


+1, I would also think office=employment_agency is a suitable tag.


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Re: [Tagging] Tagging a government job centre

[Volker Schmidt]

If you go to the (admittedly, very short) wiki page for
office=employment_agency, you find that the picture illustrating the tag
shows a German "jobcenter" of the Agentur fuer Arbeit, which is a government
agency. 
So I think your starting assumption is not reflecting the actual tagging
This means also that your idea of creating a new "government" related tag
would be in conflict with the established tagging, at least in Germany

Volker
(Italy)


> On 10/10/2020 00:09, António Madeira via Tagging wrote:
> >> I was searching for a way of tagging a government job centre and I found
> >> there's no suitable way of doing this.
> >> There's office=employment_agency which doesn't seem to fit here, cause
> >> it seems to correspond to private companies who work with this kind of
> >> services.
>


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