Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

2022-11-19 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 at 11:58, Minh Nguyen wrote: > direct interested mappers to the wiki talk page, where hopefully others > can engage as necessary. > I do have some concerns about the talk pages though. Over time, I've asked quite a few questions on various talk pages, seeking clarification

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Proposed features/emergency=lifeboat station

2022-11-24 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Discussions on the Talk page mentioned groups such as these https://wsart.org.uk/, who assist Emergency Services (Police, Fire & Ambulance) with water search & rescue. Have mentioned them in the proposal as emergency_service=water Thanks Graeme On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 at 09:35, Graeme Fit

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Proposed features/emergency=lifeboat station

2022-11-26 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
In regard to mapping the location of a lifeboat, just noticed this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=6952187784#map=19/53.09914/5.94569 & the wiki for houseboats https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building=houseboat, states " Houseboats that are moving are not mappable in OSM". I

Re: [Tagging] craft vs office for service enterprises/establishments.

2023-01-25 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 02:51, Daniel Bégin wrote: > and office=psychologist because they provide services. > I would usually use healthcare=psychotherapist for them. Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] tagging the diameter of a mini-roundabout

2023-01-29 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
The old Australian version of what I think is the same thing were nicknamed Silent Cops. Article about them: https://www.shannons.com.au/club/forum/general/who-remembers-silent-cops/ Thanks Graeme On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:04, Colin Smale wrote: > The "Priority to the right" rule doesn't

[Tagging] RFC - Proposed features/emergency=air rescue service

2023-01-08 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Have now raised a proposal for emergency air-rescue services, further broken down into search and rescue, and aeromedical (Air Ambulance) services. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/emergency%3Dair_rescue_service All comments welcome either here, on the talk page

Re: [Tagging] caravans en-de inconsistency

2023-01-18 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
When I created https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dcaravan, I defined them as: "recreational vehicles such as towed caravans (a.k.a travel trailers, pop-tops, camper trailers, tent trailers, 5th wheelers etc); powered, self-propelled motorhomes (camper vans, expedition vehicles, truck

[Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-06 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Some time ago, I raised a proposal for Marine Rescue stations: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Marine_rescue. After a few weeks, I returned it to draft status, pending the resolution of the Military Bases proposal which was also going through at that time, but despite that,

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-08 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Looking at some of the "inland" examples shown on OT, I wonder if they should actually be tagged as a "lifeboat-station" at all, or whether they would be better shown as a lifeguard base? Examples, with some websites included: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/299123258 +

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-08 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Thanks, but are they usually found inland? I found a few rescue / lifeboat stations along the Polish coast, but only one mapped inland, which either doesn't exist anymore, or it's website has changed? https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254564700

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-08 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Thanks! Once again, would =lifeboat_station cover them? Thanks Graeme On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 at 16:38, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Fixed link on it. > > By looking at https://mopr.com.pl/stacje-i-ratownicy/ there are two that > are definitely > serious

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-08 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
station - > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/392193354 - but perhaps some kind of > "water rescue" tag is more appropriate. > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 4:41 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > >> Thanks, but are they usually found inland? >> >> I found a few res

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-06 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 at 09:30, Jmapb wrote: > "Lifeboat" is an ambiguous term -- it even has a disambiguation page on > Wikipedia which lists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(shipboard) > ahead of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeboat_(rescue) . > Yes, that is a possibility, although

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Street vendors

2022-11-07 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Another version of sort of a street-vendor that I was wondering about is mobile food vans. They drive into a site (building site, warehouse complex etc) at morning tea time, blow their horn, stay for 15-20 minutes, then leave & come back at lunch time. Are they a street vendor? Thanks Graeme

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-07 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 at 20:03, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > What about such stations on freshwater lakes and on rivers? Is "marine" > fitting there? > That one's easily covered by definition, as in the original marine-rescue proposal: "the base areas or

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-07 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 at 08:07, Tom Pfeifer wrote: > > Not really. emergency=lifeboat_station implies the presence of a boat. > Not all water rescue > related infrastructure has a boat, and not all is located directly at the > coast line or river bank. > "marine" implies salt water. > Yes,

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-06 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Sun, 6 Nov 2022 at 19:08, Illia Marchenko wrote: > One tag is enough. I prefer emergency=lifeboat_station because > "emergency" is a narrower key. > Thanks, Illia. I definitely agree that it should be emergency=, rather than amenity=. I must also admit to a slight personal preference for

Re: [Tagging] Possible merge of marine_rescue & lifeboat_station tags?

2022-11-09 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Another question! In a number of places e.g. https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1nBt the Rescue unit has two buildings - an admin base / radio room / lookout tower, usually overlooking the river mouth, together with a boatshed a bit further upriver e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/244664674 &

Re: [Tagging] amentiy=donation_centre?

2022-11-12 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 at 10:37, António Madeira wrote: > I don't know of any charity which buys items to then resell or > distribute them, although that can happen in some obscure situation. > There's that international thing appearing again! In Australia, *every* (or at least the vast

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

2022-11-13 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 01:07, Cartographer10 via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > I hope that the current proposal will for everybody. > It possibly will be one day, but at the moment, no, I don't think that we're yet ready to say "You *have* to post there". I recently started a

Re: [Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=air_rescue_service

2023-02-24 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Proposal has been approved with 20 yes, 2 no, 0 abstentions, so thank you everybody. Will sort the pages out over the next few days. Thanks Graeme On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 09:34, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Last day for voting! > > Thanks > > Graeme > > > On Sun, 19 F

Re: [Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=water_rescue

2023-02-24 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Proposal has been approved with 20 yes to 3 no, so thank you everybody. Will sort the pages out over the next few days. Thanks Graeme On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 09:34, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Last day for voting! > > Thanks > > Graeme > > > On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 at 1

Re: [Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=air_rescue_service

2023-02-23 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Last day for voting! Thanks Graeme On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 at 13:28, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Response so far has been overwhelmingly positive! :-) > > Another week of voting to go if you'd like to please add your vote? > > Updated link giving the correct

Re: [Tagging] amenity=bbq without grill/grate ?

2023-02-23 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 at 23:16, Matija Nalis < mnalis-openstreetmapl...@voyager.hr> wrote: > does `amenity=bbq` + `grate=no` make any sense to you, No, not really. Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=water_rescue

2023-02-23 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Last day for voting! Thanks Graeme On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 at 13:36, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 10:06, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > >> >> >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/emergency%3Dwater_rescue >> > >

Re: [Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=water_rescue

2023-02-18 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 10:06, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/emergency%3Dwater_rescue > Voting has been extremely positive so far! Still open for another week if you'd like to please add your vote. Th

Re: [Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=air_rescue_service

2023-02-18 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Same for this one, if there are no further comments, I'll move it to > voting in a couple of days. > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/emergency%3Dair_rescue_service >

Re: [Tagging] Wall gardens as ways?

2023-03-02 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 at 14:37, Kai Michael Poppe wrote: > Just updated the Wiki. > Thanks! Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Wall gardens as ways?

2023-03-01 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 at 17:02, joost schouppe wrote: > Hi, > > I made a proposal for facade gardens some time back, see > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Facade_garden > Thanks for that. Yes, I see now that they are different things On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 at 18:12, Martin

[Tagging] Wall gardens as ways?

2023-02-28 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
We were discussing this article earlier: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-28/urban-nature-sydney-developers-incentives-rooftop-gardens-green/102030006 & I wondered if we even have a way of mapping wall gardens? Turns out that yes we do (Of course! :-)): leisure=garden + garden:type=green_wall,

Re: [Tagging] unicode in direction_* for guildepost to describe what it is related to, e.g. hiking

2023-04-19 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Is that actually on the sign? If not, it shouldn't be mapped. Thanks Graeme On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 at 08:59, Marc_marc wrote: > Hello, > > a specialist appearance contributor adds in unicode characters > to visually represent the type of travel present on a guildepost > > is this really a good

Re: [Tagging] sport=inline_hockey a good value ?

2023-04-02 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 3 Apr 2023 at 01:56, Marc_marc wrote: > > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/sport=inline_hockey > does this term correspond to British English term ? > I must admit to not knowing the sport term specifically, but inline skates, as opposed to roller skates, is certainly valid BE.

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

2023-04-13 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 at 20:48, Greg Troxel wrote: > (admin_level 4/6/8, normally). > Would it work to add the admin_level= to the road to say which level of Government owns it? Then I would think that a search should be able to say that this is an AL2 highway in the country of Norway, so owned

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

2023-04-13 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 at 03:06, Tod Fitch wrote: > the toll roads in my area. They are, I believe, owned by a toll road > authority > Owned, or leased? Around here, toll roads & bridges are built by the Govt, using public funds, then the actual operation is leased to a private company, who

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

2023-04-13 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Thanks fellas, both fair comments! Graeme On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 at 13:15, Andrew Harvey wrote: > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 at 08:17, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > >> On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 at 20:48, Greg Troxel wrote: >> >>> (admin_level 4/6/8, normally

Re: [Tagging] drones

2023-02-10 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Here are the Australian rules: https://www.casa.gov.au/knowyourdrone/drone-rules They're more a matter of saying No, you can't, rather than Yes, you can! I don't think that it would work in OSM? Thanks Graeme On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 at 04:10, Craig Wallace wrote: > On 2023-02-10 11:43,

Re: [Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=water_rescue

2023-02-09 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Have now opened voting. Thanks Graeme On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 10:06, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Getting back to this after a busy few weeks, if there are no further > comments, I'll move it to voting in a couple of days. > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_

Re: [Tagging] dry swamps

2023-02-11 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 at 05:10, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > A wetland is a land area that is saturated with water, either permanently > or seasonally” > But does "seasonally" include "maybe once every 20 years"? Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] dry swamps

2023-02-11 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 at 10:18, stevea wrote: > "Brevity is the soul of wit" is true for reasons. > & when you're only brief half the time ... ? :-) Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] leisure=practice_pitch a bad idea because too overspecific for a main tag ?

2023-01-31 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 at 20:23, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > but you typically cannot see details like a basketball court with just one > basket. > But iD, at least, when tagging basketball "pitches" asks for the number of hoops, with 1 as an option. Does that info then go anywhere downstream?

[Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=water_rescue

2023-02-02 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Getting back to this after a busy few weeks, if there are no further comments, I'll move it to voting in a couple of days. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/emergency%3Dwater_rescue Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list

[Tagging] Proposed_features: emergency=air_rescue_service

2023-02-02 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Same for this one, if there are no further comments, I'll move it to voting in a couple of days. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/emergency%3Dair_rescue_service Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Wave Lounger

2023-07-02 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 3 Jul 2023 at 05:39, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > https://i.etsystatic.com/26861520/r/il/09aa34/3144992841/il_1140xN.3144992841_ps9i.jpg > Ah, but is that frame, material or surface? :-) https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/benches-material/100491 Thanks Graeme

[Tagging] Refreshed proposal - Emergency=disaster_response

2023-07-12 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Advising on behalf of the originator that https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal:Emergency%3Ddisaster_response has been refreshed with new content. So far, the person who redid it is only on the talk page, but further conversation is also on the Forum at

Re: [Tagging] Perimeter of a pitch

2023-05-22 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 22 May 2023 at 22:43, Marc_marc wrote: > > but what's the playing area ? > Yep, good question, with no across-the-board answer! As you say, you can play tennis from "outside" the court, but in most ball games, if the ball (& sometimes player) crosses the marked line, that's out! &

Re: [Tagging] Perimeter of a pitch

2023-05-21 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Mon, 22 May 2023 at 06:10, Raphael wrote: > > Does the area outside the sidelines of a pitch up a board, a fence, a > change in surface or similar belong to a pitch (sports field) or not? > I'm asking because there's [some disagreement][^1] about how to map > `leisure=pitch`: [like this][^2]

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

2023-08-06 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Just commented on the Forum, but I'll repeat it here. There are too many things to take into account that may affect your coverage - different networks, different phones on the same network, how crowded any spot is at the time = how much demand, whether there may be a good spot up that hill etc

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-20 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 at 22:11, Greg Troxel wrote: > > an air rifle is not a firearm, in English, because there is no > combustion > Unfortunately, in Australia at least, air rifles are actually officially classed as firearms! :-( Thanks Graeme

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-20 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 at 11:03, stevea wrote: > Postscript: I find Minh's examples (a drive-through liquor store with > live fishing bait, a supermarket with mattresses and tool sheds, a > laundromat with treadmills, a car wash and tanning beds...) to be each and > every one of true,

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-20 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 at 14:31, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > I have created https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dknives > Thanks > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dammunition has single use > Is there a different tagging for that

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-20 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 at 14:38, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Jun 20, 2023, 01:36 by g...@lexort.com: > > In English, the adjective for the shop tends to be singular, when that > adjective is a noun. The plural just sounds funny. For example we have > "car

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-27 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 at 07:42, Minh Nguyen wrote: > Vào lúc 01:47 2023-06-27, Martin Koppenhoefer đã viết: > > what’s the category for multi role combat aircraft or heavy battletanks? > > Why do you ask? 樂 > So they can be listed as shop=weapons, perhaps? :-) Thanks Graeme

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-19 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 at 09:26, Greg Troxel wrote: > > In the US, even in Massachusetts, usage is "gun store" (store US vs shop > UK, as usual) if being casual, and "firearms" if being formal. I have > never heard any (civilian) store be desribed as a "weapons store". > Yep, & they don't buy

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-23 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Sat, 24 Jun 2023 at 03:37, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > but I have never seen a convenience store selling auto supplies, > Do you have stores attached to service stations, selling bread, milk, snacks, drinks etc? If so, they would probably also have a couple of shelves of auto stuff.

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-19 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 20 Jun 2023 at 02:57, Illia Marchenko wrote: > As possible solution, *shop=weapon* > Sorry, but speaking as a recreational shooter, & on behalf of all others, we find the use of the term "weapons" for our chosen sporting tools more than somewhat offensive - recreational shooters don't

Re: [Tagging] Tag government equals emergency defintion

2023-05-15 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
During discussions on one of the proposals that finished up as emergency=water_rescue ( https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_talk:Emergency%3Dlifeboat_station#Use_on_Rescue-related_sites), there was suggestion of office=government + government=transportation + emergency=control_centre for

Re: [Tagging] Tag government equals emergency defintion

2023-05-17 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 16 May 2023 at 18:00, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > emergency=control_centre/administration ??? > That was the plan! emergency=control_centre for the place where disaster / emergency responses are controlled / co-ordinated from e.g.

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - Documenting feet as an an optional elevation unit

2024-01-28 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
In regard to "exact" accuracy, spotted this article a few weeks ago in regard to the Japanese earthquake: https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/society/noto-peninsula-earthquake/20240111-161375/ 70cm / 28" to 2m / 6'6" horizontal & 3cm / 1.25" to 1.3m / 4'4" vertical movement! :-( Thanks Graeme On

Re: [Tagging] Defibrillators

2024-02-01 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Tag already set-up for them, Tim: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency=defibrillator?uselang=en Some groups are also working on mapping them as well. Whereabouts are you? Thanks Graeme On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 at 10:43, Timothy Noname wrote: > Hi, > I'm looking at

Re: [Tagging] Difference between "yes" and "designated" in access tags

2024-04-30 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 at 16:36, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > At least in Poland we distinguish between > signage with legal implications and route > markers. > > In fact, some bicycle trails are signed where > cycling is illegal > So does that then make it

Re: [Tagging] How to Tag Steps in a Bridleway

2024-04-28 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Completely aside from mapping them in OSM, but how do horses handle the steps in the bridleway? Thanks Graeme On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 at 05:41, Peter Neale via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Hi DaveF, > > Acting on advice, I have already split the Bridleway and re-tagged 2 >

Re: [Tagging] How to Tag Steps in a Bridleway

2024-04-29 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
Thanks, all! Graeme On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 at 18:06, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Mo., 29. Apr. 2024 um 09:47 Uhr schrieb Jo : > >> I was wondering about that myself. They seem to be 'long' steps. So a >> horse wouldn't have too much trouble with them. >> > > > > there is this property

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