Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On 12/03/2015 10:04 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com mailto:ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:57:28AM +1100, Warin wrote: Mapping a maze path would reduce the enjoyment of the maze .. at least for me. Even if it was a single path. spoiler_warning=yes ? I do not think that is necessary: #1 you don't have to loook at the map before going through the maze #2 GPS is not precise enough to lead you through a maze You say that, but I'm guessing you've never been to an American suburban neighborhood full of twisty little cul-de-sacs with no rational urban planning or terrain to justify such obfuscation, each more identical than the last. American mazes can be quite huge, often dozens or even hundreds of square kilometers, and I'm pretty convinced the people who live in them do so because they can't find their way out. Off topic .. for a small while Unfortunately they exist around the world Paul ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boxes + http://people.wku.edu/charles.smith/MALVINA/mr094.htm /Little boxes on the hillside,// //Little boxes made of ticky tacky,// //Little boxes on the hillside,// //Little boxes all the same.// //There's a green one and a pink one // //And a blue one and a yellow one,// //And they're all made out of ticky tacky// //And they all look just the same./ // /And the people in the houses// //All went to the university,// //Where they were put in boxes// //And they came out all the same,// //And there's doctors and lawyers,// //And business executives,// //And they're all made out of ticky tacky// //And they all look just the same. / etc/ -- /Back on topic / / In June 2012 attraction=maze had 44 entries leisure=maze had 32 entries now in 2015 attraction=maze has 148 entries leisure=maze has 79 entries I think the continued use of attraction=maze is due to the good wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/maze compared to the poor wiki page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dmaze which, before I edited it, redirect back to attraction=maze !!! - So .. Should I simply make a wiki entry on leisure=maze .. and simply copy it across from attraction=maze .. then make the attraction=maze redirect to the leisure=maze page (possible edit wars!) Or make a new proposal here ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
+1 to make a wiki entry on leisure=maze. Fits with what already exists and the alternative isn't really better. On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 8:58 AM Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/03/2015 10:04 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:57:28AM +1100, Warin wrote: Mapping a maze path would reduce the enjoyment of the maze .. at least for me. Even if it was a single path. spoiler_warning=yes ? I do not think that is necessary: #1 you don't have to loook at the map before going through the maze #2 GPS is not precise enough to lead you through a maze You say that, but I'm guessing you've never been to an American suburban neighborhood full of twisty little cul-de-sacs with no rational urban planning or terrain to justify such obfuscation, each more identical than the last. American mazes can be quite huge, often dozens or even hundreds of square kilometers, and I'm pretty convinced the people who live in them do so because they can't find their way out. Off topic .. for a small while Unfortunately they exist around the world Paul ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boxes + http://people.wku.edu/charles.smith/MALVINA/mr094.htm *Little boxes on the hillside,* * Little boxes made of ticky tacky,* * Little boxes on the hillside,* * Little boxes all the same.* * There's a green one and a pink one * * And a blue one and a yellow one,* * And they're all made out of ticky tacky* * And they all look just the same.* *And the people in the houses* * All went to the university,* * Where they were put in boxes* * And they came out all the same,* * And there's doctors and lawyers,* * And business executives,* * And they're all made out of ticky tacky* * And they all look just the same. * etc * -- *Back on topic In June 2012 attraction=maze had 44 entries leisure=maze had 32 entries now in 2015 attraction=maze has 148 entries leisure=maze has 79 entries I think the continued use of attraction=maze is due to the good wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/maze compared to the poor wiki page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dmaze which, before I edited it, redirect back to attraction=maze !!! - So .. Should I simply make a wiki entry on leisure=maze .. and simply copy it across from attraction=maze .. then make the attraction=maze redirect to the leisure=maze page (possible edit wars!) Or make a new proposal here ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:57:28AM +1100, Warin wrote: Mapping a maze path would reduce the enjoyment of the maze .. at least for me. Even if it was a single path. spoiler_warning=yes ? I do not think that is necessary: #1 you don't have to loook at the map before going through the maze #2 GPS is not precise enough to lead you through a maze You say that, but I'm guessing you've never been to an American suburban neighborhood full of twisty little cul-de-sacs with no rational urban planning or terrain to justify such obfuscation, each more identical than the last. American mazes can be quite huge, often dozens or even hundreds of square kilometers, and I'm pretty convinced the people who live in them do so because they can't find their way out. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
2015-02-27 1:14 GMT+01:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: So leisure=maze Possible sub tags? material= fee= operator= opening_hours= etc. +1 for mazes that fall into the leisure category, and obviously -1 for those that clearly don't, like the one at the outer facade of the cathedral of Lucca, IT, or those pavements in gothic French cathedrals, or the one Daedalos built to repress the minotaur ;-). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On 21/02/2015 1:16 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: Given that both the multiple-path and single-path definitions are in use, the OSM definition of labyrinth should not exclude either one. Present definition of maze within OSM includes labyrinth. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/maze States The terms labyrinth and maze are considered synonyms in this proposals. I'm inclined to restart this abandoned proposal as leisure=maze. / //The traditions of the dead generations weigh like a nightmare on the brains of the living/ Karl Marx 1852 -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. On February 20, 2015 3:24:42 PM Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: Various new age spiritual communities have a strong definition of labyrinth: it's one path, no dead ends, leading to a center. There are dozens in my area. The term is widespread and common, as is the feature. The one path labyrinth is a mappable feature in OSM, even if Merriam Webster has not caught up ;-). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On 20/02/2015 6:57 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 19 February 2015 at 00:04, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: leisure=maze 77 attraction=maze 147 So the usage is split about even.. Looks more like 1:2 to me. The numbers are too small for me to say. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On 19/02/2015 10:49 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-02-19 12:43 GMT+01:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com mailto:ricoz@gmail.com: in addition to that I think any large enough maze should be mapped with highway=maze or highway=path, dead end markers and emergency exits. +1 and telephone number and capacity. -1 Mapping a maze path would reduce the enjoyment of the maze .. at least for me. Even if it was a single path. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On 19/02/2015 8:55 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-02-19 10:20 GMT+01:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com: The usuall OSM practice is to have one tag xxx=maze and then have a sub tag to distinguish the type of maze. Why this exception .. other than poor practice in the past? you seem to imply that there is just one way to look at the world. A=B with subtypes of B, but a wall engraving is something completely different (artwork) than a hedge or a ruin of an ancient religious site, all of which can come in the form of a maze. E.g. we are _not_ tagging man_made=metal_plate and then distinguish metal_plate=memorial metal_plate=sluice_gate metal_plate=roof metal_plate=hole_cover etc. Instead we use building=roof for all kinds of roofs and historic=memorial for some kinds of memorials, and don't care whether they are made of a metal plate or not. There are infinite ways to structure / classify / interpret the world, which are main classes and which are sub classes is something that evolves within our open tagging system. There is no usual OSM practise in a way it would determine how to classify mazes. OSM usually tags what is seen on the ground .. A stone sculpture is tagged tourism=artwork artwork_type=sculpture material=stone etc. My preference is for one tag =maze .. if a distinction is to be made between them then use a sub tag.. but there does not look to be enough of them for that to be worthwhile? So the choice for tags so far is attraction=maze ... looks too restrictive if restrained to only amusement parks. historic=maze ..looks too restrictive as new mazes would be excluded. So I'd exclude the above two. amenity=maze leisure=maze tourism=maze I'd be tossing a coin to chose between the three. to describe what kind of object? A maze. Be it stone, hedge, etc within an amusement facility or not. Given the above artwork example .. I'm inclined to the leisure=maze solution. As that would not conflict with an art work within the maze, nor a fountain (amenity=fountain) and not restrict it to an amusement facility. So leisure=maze Possible sub tags? material= fee= operator= opening_hours= etc. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On 19 February 2015 at 00:04, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: leisure=maze 77 attraction=maze 147 So the usage is split about even.. Looks more like 1:2 to me. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
Given that both the multiple-path and single-path definitions are in use, the OSM definition of labyrinth should not exclude either one. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. On February 20, 2015 3:24:42 PM Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: Various new age spiritual communities have a strong definition of labyrinth: it's one path, no dead ends, leading to a center. There are dozens in my area. The term is widespread and common, as is the feature. The one path labyrinth is a mappable feature in OSM, even if Merriam Webster has not caught up ;-). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
The maze/labyrinth distinction is there. When I hear of modern labyrinths, it's usually in the context of religious/spiritual uses (since there's only one way, it lends itself to a walking meditation). Mazes are generally like a recreational puzzle, where you're trying to find your way. Whether that's different enough for a separate tag, or just a subtag, I'm not sure. On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 4:24 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Some forms of mazes and labyrinths 1. - part of or entire garden (often of a castle or stately home or similarly representative building), like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze#mediaviewer/File:Longleat_maze.jpg or this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze#mediaviewer/File:Hedge_Maze,_St_Louis_Botanical_Gardens_%28St_Louis,_Missouri_-_June_2003%29.jpg These are typically permanent and do last more than a few weeks IMHO could be a garden:style http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Garden_specification Not sure if this should comprise stone mazes when put in similar context, e.g. Donnafugata Castle: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5_VDLUa6b-A/T4LEVS-CuAI/Bxk/9qCCsJ9iyCM/s1600/P1110213.JPG or in this Chinese garden: http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/ruine-labyrinth-china-peking-yuanmingyuan-18665768.jpg 2. seasonal stand alone labyrinths, often made of corn, typical in southern Germany but also elsewhere, e.g. http://www.maislabyrinth-eutingen.de/bilder?page=2 one suggestion could be amenity=maze as these are dedicated mazes. 3. Finger labyrinth, engraved mazes http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth#mediaviewer/File:Duomo_Lucca_cathedrale_Lucques_labyrinthe.jpg maybe tourism=artwork and subtype(s)? 4. Labyrinth mosaics and floor pavings E.g. in portugal, Conimbriga http://www.bilder-reiseberichte.de/labyrinthe/bilder/conimbriga-portugal-03-51.jpg Or in France, Chartre http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth#mediaviewer/File:Labyrinth_at_Chartres_Cathedral.JPG ___ FWIW, I have assumed in my contributions that maze and labyrinth would be exchangeable (indeed in German they are), but the English wikipedia suggests they are not (they claim: maze=several ways through, labyrinth: just one way). cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
Various new age spiritual communities have a strong definition of labyrinth: it's one path, no dead ends, leading to a center. There are dozens in my area. The term is widespread and common, as is the feature. The one path labyrinth is a mappable feature in OSM, even if Merriam Webster has not caught up ;-). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
Labyrinths aren't usually defined as having only one way through them. They normally have side passages, although, like other mazes, there may be only one path that will succeed in taking you all of the way to the exit. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. On February 20, 2015 11:25:27 AM Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: The maze/labyrinth distinction is there. When I hear of modern labyrinths, it's usually in the context of religious/spiritual uses (since there's only one way, it lends itself to a walking meditation). Mazes are generally like a recreational puzzle, where you're trying to find your way. Whether that's different enough for a separate tag, or just a subtag, I'm not sure. On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 4:24 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Some forms of mazes and labyrinths 1. - part of or entire garden (often of a castle or stately home or similarly representative building), like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze#mediaviewer/File:Longleat_maze.jpg or this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze#mediaviewer/File:Hedge_Maze,_St_Louis_Botanical_Gardens_%28St_Louis,_Missouri_-_June_2003%29.jpg These are typically permanent and do last more than a few weeks IMHO could be a garden:style http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Garden_specification Not sure if this should comprise stone mazes when put in similar context, e.g. Donnafugata Castle: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5_VDLUa6b-A/T4LEVS-CuAI/Bxk/9qCCsJ9iyCM/s1600/P1110213.JPG or in this Chinese garden: http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/ruine-labyrinth-china-peking-yuanmingyuan-18665768.jpg 2. seasonal stand alone labyrinths, often made of corn, typical in southern Germany but also elsewhere, e.g. http://www.maislabyrinth-eutingen.de/bilder?page=2 one suggestion could be amenity=maze as these are dedicated mazes. 3. Finger labyrinth, engraved mazes http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth#mediaviewer/File:Duomo_Lucca_cathedrale_Lucques_labyrinthe.jpg maybe tourism=artwork and subtype(s)? 4. Labyrinth mosaics and floor pavings E.g. in portugal, Conimbriga http://www.bilder-reiseberichte.de/labyrinthe/bilder/conimbriga-portugal-03-51.jpg Or in France, Chartre http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth#mediaviewer/File:Labyrinth_at_Chartres_Cathedral.JPG ___ FWIW, I have assumed in my contributions that maze and labyrinth would be exchangeable (indeed in German they are), but the English wikipedia suggests they are not (they claim: maze=several ways through, labyrinth: just one way). cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 11:24 AM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Labyrinths aren't usually defined as having only one way through them. They normally have side passages, although, like other mazes, there may be only one path that will succeed in taking you all of the way to the exit. Incorrect: A labyrinth is a single path or unicursal tool for personal, psychological and spiritual transformation. http://labyrinthsociety.org/about-labyrinths What people are talking about mapping is seen as a meditation tool, and has no side passages. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
Here is the definition from my Merriam'Webster dictionary: 1 a : a place constructed of or full of intricate passageways and blind alleys b : a maze (as in a garden) formed by paths separated by high hedges 2 : something extremely complex or tortuous in structure, arrangement, or character : intricacy, perplexity a labyrinth of swamps and channels guided them through the labyrinths of city life — Paul Blanshard 3 : a tortuous anatomical structure; especially : the internal ear or its bony or membranous part Something with only one possible route isn't complex in structure. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. On February 20, 2015 1:43:59 PM Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 11:24 AM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Labyrinths aren't usually defined as having only one way through them. They normally have side passages, although, like other mazes, there may be only one path that will succeed in taking you all of the way to the exit. Incorrect: A labyrinth is a single path or unicursal tool for personal, psychological and spiritual transformation. http://labyrinthsociety.org/about-labyrinths What people are talking about mapping is seen as a meditation tool, and has no side passages. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On 19/02/2015 7:44 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: there are also few amenity=maze and historic and tourism. The key attraction is used according to the wiki for features on a playground or in a theme park. Given the huge variety of maze types (ranging from built ones in masonry, ones made of vegetation to those ornaments carved into historic buildings, etc) I'm in favor of distinguishing with different keys. Mazes are a very broad topic, with great history (the first work of an architect was a maze, Daedalos built it according to Greek mythology to tame the Minotaur). Currently we seem to lack documentation which tag to use for which kind of maze. Rather than unifying the tags we should try to get the docu clear and decide which tag to use for the different manifestations of mazes. cheers Martin The usuall OSM practice is to have one tag xxx=maze and then have a sub tag to distinguish the type of maze. Why this exception .. other than poor practice in the past? By having several =maze possibilities; a) the mappers may well make errors .. that cannot be detected other than by being on the ground. b) the mapper may not know what type of maze it is .. and thus either not enter it or make a guess. My preference is for one tag =maze .. if a distinction is to be made between them then use a sub tag.. but there does not look to be enough of them for that to be worthwhile? So the choice for tags so far is attraction=maze ... looks too restrictive if restrained to only amusement parks. historic=maze ..looks too restrictive as new mazes would be excluded. So I'd exclude the above two. amenity=maze leisure=maze tourism=maze I'd be tossing a coin to chose between the three. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On 19/02/2015 8:15 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: The problem with tourism=attraction attraction=maze Is that attraction is a top level tag, not a subtag of tourism=attraction. So maybe: tourism=attraction type=maze subtypes=labyrinth;hedge I'd do tourism=maze ... similar to zoo, theme park, museum, artwork. and if necessary sub tag under that .. there are lots of different types .. see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
I think that attraction=maze is better than attraction:type (shorter, without colon, type is not really adding anything useful, clear detailing of tourism=attraction). 2015-02-19 3:59 GMT+01:00 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: If it's of interest to outsiders it seems like an attraction. Thus how about: *tourism=attraction* *attraction:type=maze* *name=Happy Tunnel Kiddie Maze* *website=http://maze.example.org/ http://maze.example.org/* You want all those similar features (maze/tube hill/ride/garden/water park/whatever) to show up on a tourism/visitor type map. This is also a clear case where the existing maze tags could be mass retagged to the new scheme. --- You just want to be clear if a given feature is PART of a larger attraction (e.g. one ride in a water park), or if it's the high level feature (e.g. the water park itself). See also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dtheme_park and the associated tagging. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
there are also few amenity=maze and historic and tourism. The key attraction is used according to the wiki for features on a playground or in a theme park. Given the huge variety of maze types (ranging from built ones in masonry, ones made of vegetation to those ornaments carved into historic buildings, etc) I'm in favor of distinguishing with different keys. Mazes are a very broad topic, with great history (the first work of an architect was a maze, Daedalos built it according to Greek mythology to tame the Minotaur). Currently we seem to lack documentation which tag to use for which kind of maze. Rather than unifying the tags we should try to get the docu clear and decide which tag to use for the different manifestations of mazes. cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
The problem with tourism=attraction attraction=maze Is that attraction is a top level tag, not a subtag of tourism=attraction. So maybe: tourism=attraction type=maze subtypes=labyrinth;hedge ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
Yes Mateusz, +1 from me, sounds good - Dan 2015-02-19 8:00 GMT+00:00 Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com: I think that attraction=maze is better than attraction:type (shorter, without colon, type is not really adding anything useful, clear detailing of tourism=attraction). 2015-02-19 3:59 GMT+01:00 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: If it's of interest to outsiders it seems like an attraction. Thus how about: tourism=attraction attraction:type=maze name=Happy Tunnel Kiddie Maze website=http://maze.example.org/ You want all those similar features (maze/tube hill/ride/garden/water park/whatever) to show up on a tourism/visitor type map. This is also a clear case where the existing maze tags could be mass retagged to the new scheme. --- You just want to be clear if a given feature is PART of a larger attraction (e.g. one ride in a water park), or if it's the high level feature (e.g. the water park itself). See also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dtheme_park and the associated tagging. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
There are some super famous ones in Japan in hat appear in the same field every year - I imagine there is some seasonal tag system to tag when it appears. There is also a yearly field used for making a giant pice of art. I wonder if artwork + a time or seasonal tag would work, as it appears in the same place every year. Javbw On Feb 19, 2015, at 7:02 PM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote: maze=maize Probably too temporary for osm but they do appear every summer in the same area, moving with crop rotation. The farmer cuts paths through the maize and places a raised platform in the middle Phil (trigpoint ) On Thu Feb 19 09:48:33 2015 GMT, johnw wrote: I think it should be k kept under attraction, because a large mappable maze is certainly an interest of tourists - especially if it is part of a larger complex. Then it would be tourism=attraction attraction=maze maze=hedge or attraction:maze=hedge instead of attraction=maze + maze=hedge (so a generic maze would be attraction:maze=yes) I actually like this better. I don’t know which is better, but it certainly feels that any large maze - new or historic - is a form of attraction, so it should go into that - Especially if we are going to have a definition for special gardens in there as well. I think we can just label it historic or heritage or something if it fits for the maze http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historic http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historic Other: wall, boundary_stone, well, boundary_marker, folly is a maze a “folly”? I think it is. so tourism=attraction attraction:maze=hedge historic=other Javbw On Feb 19, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 19/02/2015 8:15 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: The problem with tourism=attraction attraction=maze Is that attraction is a top level tag, not a subtag of tourism=attraction. So maybe: tourism=attraction type=maze subtypes=labyrinth;hedge I'd do tourism=maze ... similar to zoo, theme park, museum, artwork. and if necessary sub tag under that .. there are lots of different types .. see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
I think it should be k kept under attraction, because a large mappable maze is certainly an interest of tourists - especially if it is part of a larger complex. Then it would be tourism=attraction attraction=maze maze=hedge or attraction:maze=hedge instead of attraction=maze + maze=hedge (so a generic maze would be attraction:maze=yes) I actually like this better. I don’t know which is better, but it certainly feels that any large maze - new or historic - is a form of attraction, so it should go into that - Especially if we are going to have a definition for special gardens in there as well. I think we can just label it historic or heritage or something if it fits for the maze http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historic http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historic Other: wall, boundary_stone, well, boundary_marker, folly is a maze a “folly”? I think it is. so tourism=attraction attraction:maze=hedge historic=other Javbw On Feb 19, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 19/02/2015 8:15 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: The problem with tourism=attraction attraction=maze Is that attraction is a top level tag, not a subtag of tourism=attraction. So maybe: tourism=attraction type=maze subtypes=labyrinth;hedge I'd do tourism=maze ... similar to zoo, theme park, museum, artwork. and if necessary sub tag under that .. there are lots of different types .. see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
Some forms of mazes and labyrinths 1. - part of or entire garden (often of a castle or stately home or similarly representative building), like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze#mediaviewer/File:Longleat_maze.jpg or this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze#mediaviewer/File:Hedge_Maze,_St_Louis_Botanical_Gardens_%28St_Louis,_Missouri_-_June_2003%29.jpg These are typically permanent and do last more than a few weeks IMHO could be a garden:style http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Garden_specification Not sure if this should comprise stone mazes when put in similar context, e.g. Donnafugata Castle: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5_VDLUa6b-A/T4LEVS-CuAI/Bxk/9qCCsJ9iyCM/s1600/P1110213.JPG or in this Chinese garden: http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/ruine-labyrinth-china-peking-yuanmingyuan-18665768.jpg 2. seasonal stand alone labyrinths, often made of corn, typical in southern Germany but also elsewhere, e.g. http://www.maislabyrinth-eutingen.de/bilder?page=2 one suggestion could be amenity=maze as these are dedicated mazes. 3. Finger labyrinth, engraved mazes http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth#mediaviewer/File:Duomo_Lucca_cathedrale_Lucques_labyrinthe.jpg maybe tourism=artwork and subtype(s)? 4. Labyrinth mosaics and floor pavings E.g. in portugal, Conimbriga http://www.bilder-reiseberichte.de/labyrinthe/bilder/conimbriga-portugal-03-51.jpg Or in France, Chartre http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth#mediaviewer/File:Labyrinth_at_Chartres_Cathedral.JPG ___ FWIW, I have assumed in my contributions that maze and labyrinth would be exchangeable (indeed in German they are), but the English wikipedia suggests they are not (they claim: maze=several ways through, labyrinth: just one way). cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
2015-02-19 10:27 GMT+01:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: I'd do tourism=maze ... similar to zoo, theme park, museum, artwork. and if necessary sub tag under that .. there are lots of different types .. see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze I agree. It's simple and to the point. For subtypes I would use maze_type. That would make it symmetrical with tourism=artwork + artwork_type=*. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
2015-02-19 12:43 GMT+01:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: in addition to that I think any large enough maze should be mapped with highway=maze or highway=path, dead end markers and emergency exits. +1 and telephone number and capacity. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
2015-02-19 10:20 GMT+01:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: The usuall OSM practice is to have one tag xxx=maze and then have a sub tag to distinguish the type of maze. Why this exception .. other than poor practice in the past? you seem to imply that there is just one way to look at the world. A=B with subtypes of B, but a wall engraving is something completely different (artwork) than a hedge or a ruin of an ancient religious site, all of which can come in the form of a maze. E.g. we are _not_ tagging man_made=metal_plate and then distinguish metal_plate=memorial metal_plate=sluice_gate metal_plate=roof metal_plate=hole_cover etc. Instead we use building=roof for all kinds of roofs and historic=memorial for some kinds of memorials, and don't care whether they are made of a metal plate or not. There are infinite ways to structure / classify / interpret the world, which are main classes and which are sub classes is something that evolves within our open tagging system. There is no usual OSM practise in a way it would determine how to classify mazes. My preference is for one tag =maze .. if a distinction is to be made between them then use a sub tag.. but there does not look to be enough of them for that to be worthwhile? So the choice for tags so far is attraction=maze ... looks too restrictive if restrained to only amusement parks. historic=maze ..looks too restrictive as new mazes would be excluded. So I'd exclude the above two. amenity=maze leisure=maze tourism=maze I'd be tossing a coin to chose between the three. to describe what kind of object? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
maze=maize Probably too temporary for osm but they do appear every summer in the same area, moving with crop rotation. The farmer cuts paths through the maize and places a raised platform in the middle Phil (trigpoint ) On Thu Feb 19 09:48:33 2015 GMT, johnw wrote: I think it should be k kept under attraction, because a large mappable maze is certainly an interest of tourists - especially if it is part of a larger complex. Then it would be tourism=attraction attraction=maze maze=hedge or attraction:maze=hedge instead of attraction=maze + maze=hedge (so a generic maze would be attraction:maze=yes) I actually like this better. I don’t know which is better, but it certainly feels that any large maze - new or historic - is a form of attraction, so it should go into that - Especially if we are going to have a definition for special gardens in there as well. I think we can just label it historic or heritage or something if it fits for the maze http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historic http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historic Other: wall, boundary_stone, well, boundary_marker, folly is a maze a “folly”? I think it is. so tourism=attraction attraction:maze=hedge historic=other Javbw On Feb 19, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 19/02/2015 8:15 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: The problem with tourism=attraction attraction=maze Is that attraction is a top level tag, not a subtag of tourism=attraction. So maybe: tourism=attraction type=maze subtypes=labyrinth;hedge I'd do tourism=maze ... similar to zoo, theme park, museum, artwork. and if necessary sub tag under that .. there are lots of different types .. see wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 06:48:33PM +0900, johnw wrote: I think it should be k kept under attraction, because a large mappable maze is certainly an interest of tourists - especially if it is part of a larger complex. Then it would be tourism=attraction attraction=maze maze=hedge or attraction:maze=hedge instead of attraction=maze + maze=hedge (so a generic maze would be attraction:maze=yes) I actually like this better. I don’t know which is better, but it certainly feels that any large maze - new or historic - is a form of attraction, so it should go into that - Especially if we are going to have a definition for special gardens in there as well. in addition to that I think any large enough maze should be mapped with highway=maze or highway=path, dead end markers and emergency exits. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On Feb 19, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: If it's of interest to outsiders it seems like an attraction. Thus how about: tourism=attraction attraction:type=maze name=Happy Tunnel Kiddie Maze website=http://maze.example.org/ http://maze.example.org/ What other information would be in attraction:*=* keyspace? Maybe it would be a good chance to add some kind of “sub-attraction” attribute - as the name of theme parks routinely gets pushed out of rendering because of the plethora of attraction tags around it. If we could designate a tag, like attraction:location=Theme_park - or something to denote that it is part of a larger park (as opposed to a ferris wheel or roller coaster sitting by itself as a stand alone attraction) - it might make rendering decisions easier (AKA don’t render this type attraction name until Z18 or something.) Or is that something all done with relations or whatnot? I’m unsure of where things cross from “done with tags” to “done with relations” to “done with the rendering code”. Javbw You want all those similar features (maze/tube hill/ride/garden/water park/whatever) to show up on a tourism/visitor type map. This is also a clear case where the existing maze tags could be mass retagged to the new scheme. --- You just want to be clear if a given feature is PART of a larger attraction (e.g. one ride in a water park), or if it's the high level feature (e.g. the water park itself). See also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dtheme_park http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism=theme_park and the associated tagging. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
Seeing as a maze is not an attraction for me, I would prefer the first option. Moreover, I would have assumed attraction was a subkey of tourism=attraction but apparently it is not. There are many uses of the term but the tag attraction=* was proposed in 2008 but never voted on or accepted. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Aattraction On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 7:04 AM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: The value maze is used some 224 times ... but it is split between leisure=maze 77 attraction=maze 147 So the usage is split about even.. What would be preferred? Both are applicable... none are documented .. and I'd like to document one .. so the question which is best? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] ?=maze
The value maze is used some 224 times ... but it is split between leisure=maze 77 attraction=maze 147 So the usage is split about even.. What would be preferred? Both are applicable... none are documented .. and I'd like to document one .. so the question which is best? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
On Feb 19, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: Seeing as a maze is not an attraction for me, I would prefer the first option. Moreover, I would have assumed attraction was a subkey of tourism=attraction but apparently it is not. There are many uses of the term but the tag attraction=* was proposed in 2008 but never voted on or accepted. Anything that is put on a tourist map is a tourist attraction, and in Japan, gardens, famous trees, and other things are attractions. I’m surprised attraction=* isn’t defined, as there are so many different kinds of torusit attractions. I would change the “french garden” tag to “Formal garden” - as a (formal) Japanese garden is very different in style, but very similar in purpose. As a “ride” attraction, a maze or a Formal garden certainly isn’t one, but it *is* a tourist attraction. The attraction proposal mixes tourism, ride, and playground kiddie “attractions” - maybe it needs to be split, but the idea is good. or can the kiddie stuff be merged with the playground attraction stuff discussed? It would be a good place to put that playground zip line under contention in the RFC aerialway=zip line thread. Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] ?=maze
If it's of interest to outsiders it seems like an attraction. Thus how about: *tourism=attraction* *attraction:type=maze* *name=Happy Tunnel Kiddie Maze* *website=http://maze.example.org/ http://maze.example.org/* You want all those similar features (maze/tube hill/ride/garden/water park/whatever) to show up on a tourism/visitor type map. This is also a clear case where the existing maze tags could be mass retagged to the new scheme. --- You just want to be clear if a given feature is PART of a larger attraction (e.g. one ride in a water park), or if it's the high level feature (e.g. the water park itself). See also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dtheme_park and the associated tagging. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
