Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Andy Mabbett]

On 4 January 2015 at 19:56, Janko Mihelić  wrote:

> A fishpond isn't used for fishing. It's used for farming fish.

That's a very a narrow definition, and doesn't accord with common
usage, at least in the UK, where a fish pond can be a garden pond for
keeping ornamental fish; or a lake used for recreational fishing, or
one used in past times as a food source. A Google image search for
"fish pond" illustrates these types:


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fishpond&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=VVmqVN-5MIPeaMnngDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=657

See also:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_pond

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Dave Swarthout]

On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Janko Mihelić  wrote:

> Ok, I see everyone's against fishponds :) I think I'll use
> natural=water+water=pond and a landuse=aquaculture around the whole farm.


+1

The landuse=aquaculture tag is easy to use and such areas can include
several water=ponds. Almost all the fish and other seafood is grown in
these ponds in Thailand so I've used those tags quite a bit.

Cheers

Dave

-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Janko Mihelić]

2015-01-04 22:07 GMT+01:00 althio forum :

> Hi Janko
>
> The tagging would be better IMO if we separate feature and use.
> Hence this proposal to be refined:
>
> Feature
> natural=water or place =
> ocean /sea
> 
> water=lake/pond/...
>
> Use
> landuse=aquaculture
> produce=fish/oyster/shrimp/mussels/...
>
> So no subtag of water or pond needed.
>
> I would like to hook you into revising this proposed tagging:
>
> http:// 
> wiki.openstreetmap.org
> 
> /wiki/Proposed_features/Aquaculture
> 
>

Ok, I see everyone's against fishponds :) I think I'll use
natural=water+water=pond and a landuse=aquaculture around the whole farm.
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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Janko Mihelić]

2015-01-04 21:49 GMT+01:00 Brad Neuhauser :

> Have you looked at what tagging people are using (if any) within
> landuse=aquaculture and/or landuse=fishfarm areas?
>

I have looked now, and they are used pretty inconsistently. Sometimes every
fishpond is tagged with it's own landuse=fishfarm/aquaculture, sometimes
fishponds are landuse=basin, sometimes natural=water, sometimes
natural=water+water=pond.
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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[althio forum]

Hi Janko

The tagging would be better IMO if we separate feature and use.
Hence this proposal to be refined:

Feature
natural=water or place =ocean
/sea

water=lake/pond/...

Use
landuse=aquaculture
produce=fish/oyster/shrimp/mussels/...

So no subtag of water or pond needed.

I would like to hook you into revising this proposed tagging:

http:// 
wiki.openstreetmap.org

/wiki/Proposed_features/Aquaculture

 On Jan 4, 2015 7:46 PM, "Janko Mihelić"  wrote:

> Our wiki is missing a definition for a body of water used exclusively for
> fish farming. Since it's a small change to the wiki I thought it would be
> enough just to contact this list. This is the wiki page:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:water
>
> If there is a better word, or a tag that is already used, we can discuss
> it here.
>
> Janko Mihelić
>
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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Brad Neuhauser]

Have you looked at what tagging people are using (if any) within
landuse=aquaculture and/or landuse=fishfarm areas?

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Janko Mihelić  wrote:

> 2015-01-04 20:25 GMT+01:00 Lukas Sommer :
>
>> But we have also yet an existing tag water=pond for ponds. We would
>> have to change the defination for this tag from “a pond”
>>  to “a pond – but not if this is a pond that serves for fishing” –
>> sounds complicate …
>>
>
> A pond is the same as a lake - only smaller. A fishpond isn't used for
> fishing. It's used for farming fish. You can often recognize them from
> satellite imagery. Here's an example:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/45.5208/16.9470
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Janko Mihelić]

2015-01-04 20:25 GMT+01:00 Lukas Sommer :

> But we have also yet an existing tag water=pond for ponds. We would
> have to change the defination for this tag from “a pond”
>  to “a pond – but not if this is a pond that serves for fishing” –
> sounds complicate …
>

A pond is the same as a lake - only smaller. A fishpond isn't used for
fishing. It's used for farming fish. You can often recognize them from
satellite imagery. Here's an example:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/45.5208/16.9470
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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Lukas Sommer]

But we have also yet an existing tag water=pond for ponds. We would
have to change the defination for this tag from “a pond”
 to “a pond – but not if this is a pond that serves for fishing” –
sounds complicate …
Lukas Sommer


2015-01-04 20:20 GMT+01:00 Janko Mihelić :
> 2015-01-04 19:55 GMT+01:00 Matthijs Melissen :
>>
>>
>> I would use a subtag, like natural=water, water=pond, pond=fish_pond.
>>
>> The paradoxic effect of adding more detailed tags is that the data
>> gets less useful to data consumers, because most data users won't add
>> particular processing rules for fish ponds, while if we use a subtag,
>> they could still use the rules for water=pond.
>
>
> But water=fishpond is already a subtag of natural=water. Most renderers (if
> not all) use natural=water. I'm not sure if subtagging water=pond adds
> anything useful to the equation.
>
> A pond is just a small lake, so that's a pretty vague tag to build upon.
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Janko Mihelić]

2015-01-04 19:55 GMT+01:00 Matthijs Melissen :

>
> I would use a subtag, like natural=water, water=pond, pond=fish_pond.
>
> The paradoxic effect of adding more detailed tags is that the data
> gets less useful to data consumers, because most data users won't add
> particular processing rules for fish ponds, while if we use a subtag,
> they could still use the rules for water=pond.
>

But water=fishpond is already a subtag of natural=water. Most renderers (if
not all) use natural=water. I'm not sure if subtagging water=pond adds
anything useful to the equation.

A pond is just a small lake, so that's a pretty vague tag to build upon.
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Re: [Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 4 January 2015 at 18:44, Janko Mihelić  wrote:
> Our wiki is missing a definition for a body of water used exclusively for
> fish farming. Since it's a small change to the wiki I thought it would be
> enough just to contact this list. This is the wiki page:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:water
>
> If there is a better word, or a tag that is already used, we can discuss it
> here.

I would use a subtag, like natural=water, water=pond, pond=fish_pond.

The paradoxic effect of adding more detailed tags is that the data
gets less useful to data consumers, because most data users won't add
particular processing rules for fish ponds, while if we use a subtag,
they could still use the rules for water=pond.

-- Matthijs

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[Tagging] Adding water=fishpond to the wiki

[Janko Mihelić]

Our wiki is missing a definition for a body of water used exclusively for
fish farming. Since it's a small change to the wiki I thought it would be
enough just to contact this list. This is the wiki page:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:water

If there is a better word, or a tag that is already used, we can discuss it
here.

Janko Mihelić
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