Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Andrew MacKinnon]

In Toronto there are overhead signs that say something like "EXPRESS
AND COLLECTOR MOVING VERY SLOWLY BEYOND NEXT TRANSFER" (on Highway
401). Sometimes these signs will have safety messages like "DO NOT
DRINK AND DRIVE" or will show the name of the next few exits, or will
display that there is an accident ahead. Then there are other signs
(usually in the middle of the highway on the provincial highways) that
are like "TO 400 30 MIN TO 427 45 MIN". There are no variable speed
limits in Toronto. The official speed limit on most highways in the
GTA is 100 km/h (90km/h on DVP and part of Gardiner, 80km/h on Allen)
but if the traffic is good this is widely ignored.

See example http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/wsXILLzjVIlOnxrOhQliRw/photo
(on northbound 427 near Burnhamthorpe, "16 MINS TO HWY 400 VIA
427/401")
http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/zrfQjf2e2A5N-bcmLJyykQ/photo (on
eastbound 401 east of Bayview, "EXPRESS AND COLLECTOR MOVING WELL
BEYOND NEXT TRANSFER")

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[johnw]

> On Nov 2, 2015, at 5:11 PM, Gerd Petermann  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Maybe we should move this discussion to the "More human readable values for 
> traffic sings" thread?


I’m not sure - that thread seems to be really full ^_^

I think that, in general, there needs to be a way to deal with:

- advisory signs (ones without legal implications, such as the max__ ones)
- Static ones such as “danger: ” 
- dedicated variable ones such as traffic, travel time, & road status 
(temperture, etc).
- digital display signs that display an open ended amount of road 
pertinent information, 
This which seems to vary a lot by country , but always centered 
around driving conditions. 

-quantitative variable values in the legal signs (such as maxspeed). 


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[johnw]

> On Nov 2, 2015, at 5:59 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
>  "travel time to XY 20 minutes"


On Japan’s tollways, this is often done with a single-purpose sign with a 
variable number, and different color of the numbers to indicate delay time. 

As Japan’s tollway system is really built up, there are a lot of variable and 
and matrix signs that I have not really seen in the US, (and I have no idea 
about Europe), so here’s some examples of signs I see every time on the tollway 
- these are from a small section of tollway coming out of Tokyo. 

so if we are going to have “variable” be a value, these are the kinds of signs 
that I would expect to find (and have =variable if quantitative data). 

 - static motorway signs displaying variable information

Upcoming traffic jams (between exit 4 and 1).
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.978574,139.380073,3a,19y,181.36h,94.25t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s-lAuTWLqqcp3icYdDNdWkQ!2e0
 


traffic on the Tokyo downtown expressways
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.803439,139.53568,3a,55.7y,128.85h,99.19t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjCYjDLHWm2WjvgAtmY-qeQ!2e0
 

 

Upcoming service area & parking areas status ( empty / busy / full )
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.958085,139.382156,3a,23.7y,327.77h,100.84t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sm6vOYbSACGMdcat0meaqQw!2e0
 


Travel time to the next exits:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.956195,139.383457,3a,55.4y,318.43h,104.41t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sImGDgsiePLYiDKhw0nlwiA!2e0
 

#11 Maebashi:  40 minutes - green - so no delay.

Speed limit sign 
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.908155,139.44802,3a,37y,307.75h,92.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s9-I1yl--QbxjMsYgbYzrNA!2e0
 



- Matrix / digital display signs. 

Digital display sign (with yellow and red flashing lights)
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.949678,139.393634,3a,67.2y,125.52h,87.62t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sSQkcM7iVZoz8xDu6dFZksw!2e0
 


2 in a set, one for each direction of upcoming junction
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.923416,139.412672,3a,67.2y,339.09h,92.34t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sxHnCHMPFZTqfOfvJn04-ag!2e0
 

 



- other electronic signs in places around east Japan: 

“left tunnel” and “right tunnel” status
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.34082,139.160737,3a,67.2y,312.15h,81.81t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1seTaA7hC3o6TzDeTMpl6GZA!2e0
 


(tunnel status signs are a big thing here, almost every tunnel over a 1KM has 
one, and thats a ton of tunnels... 

Also - traffic signals on a motorway (usually green or off) for tunnel access 
control - they can stop traffic if there is an earthquake / severe accident / 
tunnel fire. 
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.472914,138.197014,3a,23.7y,289.94h,92.11t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1seJ-2pfwU2WN0q6snyDf0uw!2e0
 


Stand-alone Temperature on mountain trunk roads
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.614074,138.589968,3a,23.7y,190.21h,95.3t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sqXlkT8epGouYgCGG72cd5A!2e0
 


being replaced by matrix signs on the same trunk road 
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.55772,138.612004,3a,79.3y,295.48h,86.11t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdW18Ryk5k4D7E8jO_vqi5g!2e0
 

 

And a radiation measurement sign (from Fukushima disaster) on the Joban 
expressway.
http://www.fukushimaminponews.com/news.html?id=438 


And for fun, a (static) monkey warning sign
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.343032,138.735866,3a,29.6y,270.73h,93.81t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfvQZvOYh2QgqSllBRICrkQ!2e0
 



Javbw

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-11-01 23:00 GMT+01:00 Andrew MacKinnon :

> I have being using guidepost=vms



isn't a guidepost a sign that indicates directions for specific
destinations, eventually with distance indications? The matrix signs I had
in mind show information like "travel time to XY 20 minutes" (there's some
of these on major arterial roads in Rome to give you an indication about
the current traffic density), or the say stuff like "don't drink and
drive", "drive careful", "use seat belts", "happy christmas", etc.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Gerd Petermann]

good points, I should have written traffic_information=* instead of 
information=*


I also like the idea to separate advisory traffic signs from others, presuming 
that the laws

are clear about this.

We have several different tags like highway=distance_sign, highway=rock_slide, 
highway=motorway_sign

etc. on nodes which are probably all informational traffic signs.


Maybe we should move this discussion to the "More human readable values for 
traffic sings" thread?


Gerd


Von: johnw 
Gesendet: Montag, 2. November 2015 08:52
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?


I think the first group is not a traffic_sign=*, it is information=*

Considering the sign is purely for motorist, not tourists, I think it is still 
very much a traffic sign. But traffic_sign has no framework for non-law signs.

no one is going to go find this sign to check something - it is only relevant 
information for passing motorists.

A rest stop with a map of the area and tourist pamphlets is most certainly 
information=*



There are all kinds of non-speed road condition traffic signs - slippery when 
wet, beware falling rock, warning animal crossing (deer boar, monkey, and 
Tanuki in Japan), and other static traffic signs we would see on a motorway, 
but I don't think anyone would put them in information=*  - these matrix signs 
are the same thing, but updated to show current conditions. They are still very 
much traffic signs.


Perhaps traffic_sign:advisory=* needs to be made.
Those signs I mentioned are not in the wiki, nor are the common temperature 
signs found on roadways in the mountains (which seem to be very different from 
the information=* ones.
these matrix displays can go in there too.

Traffic_sign:advisory=digital_signboard (no acronyms).


Something like that.

and the rest of the advisory signs can have a home too, for the micromappers.

Javbw

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[johnw]

> I think the first group is not a traffic_sign=*, it is information=*

Considering the sign is purely for motorist, not tourists, I think it is still 
very much a traffic sign. But traffic_sign has no framework for non-law signs. 

no one is going to go find this sign to check something - it is only relevant 
information for passing motorists. 

A rest stop with a map of the area and tourist pamphlets is most certainly 
information=* 



There are all kinds of non-speed road condition traffic signs - slippery when 
wet, beware falling rock, warning animal crossing (deer boar, monkey, and 
Tanuki in Japan), and other static traffic signs we would see on a motorway, 
but I don’t think anyone would put them in information=*  - these matrix signs 
are the same thing, but updated to show current conditions. They are still very 
much traffic signs. 


Perhaps traffic_sign:advisory=* needs to be made.  
Those signs I mentioned are not in the wiki, nor are the common temperature 
signs found on roadways in the mountains (which seem to be very different from 
the information=* ones. 
these matrix displays can go in there too. 

Traffic_sign:advisory=digital_signboard (no acronyms). 


Something like that.

and the rest of the advisory signs can have a home too, for the micromappers. 

Javbw

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Gerd Petermann]

I see no need to separate mechanical from others in the major tag like 
traffic_sign=*.

I see no problem to add the information with another tag, maybe display_type=*


Gerd


Von: Colin Smale 
Gesendet: Montag, 2. November 2015 08:23
An: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?






I'm sure I have seen combinations as well - big black LED panels which can show 
information including (for example) temporary/emergency speed limits if 
required.

Is there a need to distinguish between mechanical and electronic signs, which 
can only show a very limited range of signs for which they have been specially 
constructed? And electronic signs with a more generic capability which can show 
"anything", possibly with a limited range of colours?

//colin

On 2015-11-02 08:05, Gerd Petermann wrote:

I also liked the traffic_sign=variable, but now I think

we have to separate those traffic_signs from pure informational

displays showing e.g. temperature, wind, or other weather conditions, as well

as traffic status (traffic jam, tunnel closed,free parking places and so on)

from those which will always show a speed limit.



I think the first group is not a traffic_sign=*, it is information=*



For the 2nd group traffic_sign=* is appropriate, maybe like this?



traffic_sign=speed_limit

speed_limit=variable



AFAIK, in Germany, those traffic_signs are only used on major

roads (motorways, maybe trunks).



Gerd


Von: John Eldredge 
Gesendet: Montag, 2. November 2015 02:13
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?


That sounds reasonable.

--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive 
out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

On October 29, 2015 4:03:49 AM Paul Johnson  wrote:

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 3:57 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote:

2015-10-29 9:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson 
mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>>:
I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a 
"programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it traffic_sign=pcms



please, let's continue to avoid abbreviations. "pcms" is cryptic to me and 
likely to many others too.
Wikipedia has an article about them called "variable-message sign" (IMHO sounds 
slightly nicer, leads to a shorter value and includes "non-programmable" signs: 
traffic_sign=variable-message_sign, even if the hyphen-underscore mix might 
lead to minor tagging inconsistencies). 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-message_sign
The article also states that a common name in the UK is "matrix_sign" (is ok as 
well, focusing more on the physical aspect than on the function).

 How about traffic_sign=variable?
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Colin Smale]

 

I'm sure I have seen combinations as well - big black LED panels which
can show information including (for example) temporary/emergency speed
limits if required. 

Is there a need to distinguish between mechanical and electronic signs,
which can only show a very limited range of signs for which they have
been specially constructed? And electronic signs with a more generic
capability which can show "anything", possibly with a limited range of
colours? 

//colin 

On 2015-11-02 08:05, Gerd Petermann wrote: 

> I also liked the traffic_sign=variable, but now I think 
> 
> we have to separate those traffic_signs from pure informational 
> 
> displays showing e.g. temperature, wind, or other weather conditions, as well 
> 
> as traffic status (traffic jam, tunnel closed,free parking places and so on) 
> 
> from those which will always show a speed limit.  
> 
> I think the first group is not a traffic_sign=*, it is information=* 
> 
> For the 2nd group traffic_sign=* is appropriate, maybe like this? 
> 
> traffic_sign=speed_limit 
> 
> speed_limit=variable 
> 
> AFAIK, in Germany, those traffic_signs are only used on major 
> 
> roads (motorways, maybe trunks). 
> 
> Gerd 
> 
> -
> 
> VON: John Eldredge 
> GESENDET: Montag, 2. November 2015 02:13
> AN: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> BETREFF: Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ? 
> 
> That sounds reasonable. 
> 
> -- 
> John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
> "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
> drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr. 
> 
> On October 29, 2015 4:03:49 AM Paul Johnson  wrote: 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 3:57 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  
> wrote:
> 
> 2015-10-29 9:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson :
> 
> I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a 
> "programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it 
> traffic_sign=pcms 
> 
> please, let's continue to avoid abbreviations. "pcms" is cryptic to me and 
> likely to many others too. 
> Wikipedia has an article about them called "variable-message sign" (IMHO 
> sounds slightly nicer, leads to a shorter value and includes 
> "non-programmable" signs: traffic_sign=variable-message_sign, even if the 
> hyphen-underscore mix might lead to minor tagging inconsistencies). 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-message_sign [1] 
> The article also states that a common name in the UK is "matrix_sign" (is ok 
> as well, focusing more on the physical aspect than on the function).

 How about traffic_sign=variable?
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Links:
--
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-message_sign
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Gerd Petermann]

I also liked the traffic_sign=variable, but now I think

we have to separate those traffic_signs from pure informational

displays showing e.g. temperature, wind, or other weather conditions, as well

as traffic status (traffic jam, tunnel closed,free parking places and so on)

from those which will always show a speed limit.


I think the first group is not a traffic_sign=*, it is information=*


For the 2nd group traffic_sign=* is appropriate, maybe like this?


traffic_sign=speed_limit

speed_limit=variable


AFAIK, in Germany, those traffic_signs are only used on major

roads (motorways, maybe trunks).


Gerd


Von: John Eldredge 
Gesendet: Montag, 2. November 2015 02:13
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?


That sounds reasonable.

--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive 
out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

On October 29, 2015 4:03:49 AM Paul Johnson  wrote:

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 3:57 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote:

2015-10-29 9:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson 
mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>>:
I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a 
"programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it traffic_sign=pcms


please, let's continue to avoid abbreviations. "pcms" is cryptic to me and 
likely to many others too.
Wikipedia has an article about them called "variable-message sign" (IMHO sounds 
slightly nicer, leads to a shorter value and includes "non-programmable" signs: 
traffic_sign=variable-message_sign, even if the hyphen-underscore mix might 
lead to minor tagging inconsistencies). 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-message_sign
The article also states that a common name in the UK is "matrix_sign" (is ok as 
well, focusing more on the physical aspect than on the function).

 How about traffic_sign=variable?

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[John Eldredge]

That sounds reasonable.

--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 29, 2015 4:03:49 AM Paul Johnson  wrote:


On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 3:57 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:




2015-10-29 9:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson :


I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a
"programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it
traffic_sign=pcms




please, let's continue to avoid abbreviations. "pcms" is cryptic to me and
likely to many others too.
Wikipedia has an article about them called "variable-message sign" (IMHO
sounds slightly nicer, leads to a shorter value and includes
"non-programmable" signs: traffic_sign=variable-message_sign, even if the
hyphen-underscore mix might lead to minor tagging inconsistencies).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-message_sign
The article also states that a common name in the UK is "matrix_sign" (is
ok as well, focusing more on the physical aspect than on the function).



 How about traffic_sign=variable?



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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Tom Pfeifer]

Andrew MacKinnon wrote on 2015-11-01 23:00:

I have being using guidepost=vms (for variable message sign)


As said here before, acronyms are bad. They can mean too many
things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMS


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Andrew MacKinnon]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Lauri Kytömaa  wrote:
> johnw wrote:
>>> traffic_sign=changing
>>> or
>> >traffic_sign=variable
>> The matrix displays and variable signs are very different.

I have being using guidepost=vms (for variable message sign) for
these. Electronic signs which tell you how bad the traffic is are
everywhere in the Greater Toronto Area on Highway 401, DVP, Gardiner,
etc.

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Lauri Kytömaa]

johnw wrote:
>> traffic_sign=changing
>> or
> >traffic_sign=variable
> The matrix displays and variable signs are very different.

> a matrix sign can become entirely different signs. They are also a  source
> for alerts and current info no matter the topic - whereas a variable sign
> for the speed limit is pretty limited to displaying a number value, or a

For what it's worth, the displays that started this thread are not
"traffic signs" in the sense that they don't show anything that a
driver must obey or even comprehend, but they only show info on
air and road temperature and traffic delays, sometimes textual
messages if an accident or roadworks ahead affect available
routes or capacity. The "real" variable traffic signs are similar to
those jonhw describes, that they can only display a limited set
of signs, which can affect the speed limit. I'd rather see that these
info displays are not traffic_sign=*, but anything else goes.

-- 
alv

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[johnw]

> On Nov 1, 2015, at 12:04 AM, Gerd Petermann  
> wrote:
> 
> traffic_sign=changing 
> or 
> traffic_sign=variable 

The matrix displays and variable signs are very different. 

Most speed limit signs in Japan are “variable” - they are small numeric screens 
that usually vary between 50 and 100 based on weather. Int his case, the number 
is variable. 

a matrix sign can become entirely different signs. They are also a  source for 
alerts and current info no matter the topic - whereas a variable sign for the 
speed limit is pretty limited to displaying a number value, or a traffic map 
sign limited to just displaying red where traffic is - they can not warn of 
closed lanes, high winds, snow, landslides, car fires, earthquake closures, and 
other things that can popup on the signs besides traffic info. 

The matrix signs are truly separate from a variable value sign - but I’m not 
sure of the proper tag for them. 

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[johnw]

> On Oct 29, 2015, at 6:02 PM, Gerd Petermann  
> wrote:
> 
> rather rare objects.

These signs are very very common in Japan. they are usually on the tollway for 
every 10 minutes of driving.  They're constantly updated with either accident, 
weather, or road conditions.

https://goo.gl/maps/bK5LQSboMkT2 

This one is currently warning of traffic ahead.  


Here is a picture we can use for the wiki (if you want). I’ll upload it to the 
wiki if it is desired.
This is a common warning sign in front of many longer tunnels, and is changed 
to show tunnel specific or very local weather conditions, in this case, snow 
(ユキ yuki ). 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/javbw/11091273426/in/album-72157638113676925/ 


double tunnel view, similar sign - though not as clear
https://www.flickr.com/photos/javbw/11091391693/in/album-72157638113676925/ 
 


There are other “static” signs that display variable information, though it is 
not a matrix sign. This is one built to show traffic backups on the very narrow 
and crowded downtown network in Tokyo. 
https://goo.gl/maps/ce7EqEqvQFB2  

~

There are also several of the older matrix signs in San Diego showing Amber 
Alert information, road delays, and other text (they are black & white, not 
like the 3 color ones in Japan). 

So for a person who drives a lot, these signs are not rare, but fairly common 
to see every day. 

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[François Lacombe]

Hi everyone,

Just my 2 cents :
Traffic_sign=electronic_display
Location=overhead
Operator=*

The variable function may be included inside the electronic_display value
of traffic_sign

As an overhead feature, it should be member of the highway feature it is
placed upon of.

Cheers
Le 31 oct. 2015 4:06 PM, "Gerd Petermann" 
a écrit :

> I think we have divide this into two points:
>
> 1) how do we map the position "overhead"? I found location=overhead is
> used ~ 2500 times.
>
> 2) I guess we all associate the "electronic display" with something
> similar to a computer monitor,
>
> which is programmable, but if I got that right, there are also less
> "flexible" traffic_signs which can
>
> only show a limited number of different sysmbols by flipping small
> coloured elements, still that are
>
> probably controlled by electronic components.
>
> I guess we don't care much about this difference.
>
> The interesting part is that the information on the sign can change,
>
> so I think
>
> traffic_sign=changing
>
> or
>
> traffic_sign=variable
>
> are both okay, don't know which one is less confusing.
>
>
>
> ------
> *Von:* John Eldredge 
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 31. Oktober 2015 15:49
> *An:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> *Betreff:* Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?
>
>
> We have generally avoided the use of acronyms in tagging. Most people,
> including me, wouldn't recognize the meaning of sign=pcms upon seeing it.
>
> --
> John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
> "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot
> drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
> On October 29, 2015 3:49:25 AM Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>> I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a
>> "programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it
>> traffic_sign=pcms
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:32 AM, Gerd Petermann <
>> gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Please see
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954
>>> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954>
>>> OpenStreetMap
>>> Weitere Informationen...
>>> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any ideas (which do not invent a new highway tag)?
>>>
>>>
>>> Gerd
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Gerd Petermann]

I think we have divide this into two points:

1) how do we map the position "overhead"? I found location=overhead is used ~ 
2500 times.

2) I guess we all associate the "electronic display" with something similar to 
a computer monitor,

which is programmable, but if I got that right, there are also less "flexible" 
traffic_signs which can

only show a limited number of different sysmbols by flipping small coloured 
elements, still that are

probably controlled by electronic components.

I guess we don't care much about this difference.

The interesting part is that the information on the sign can change,

so I think

traffic_sign=changing

or

traffic_sign=variable

are both okay, don't know which one is less confusing.



Von: John Eldredge 
Gesendet: Samstag, 31. Oktober 2015 15:49
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?


We have generally avoided the use of acronyms in tagging. Most people, 
including me, wouldn't recognize the meaning of sign=pcms upon seeing it.

--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive 
out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

On October 29, 2015 3:49:25 AM Paul Johnson  wrote:

I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a 
"programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it traffic_sign=pcms

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:32 AM, Gerd Petermann 
mailto:gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Please see

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954

[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo-ba6c06f3c4bf54a07351d27aa28a2b40e483cf1bbe533cd544c1d19e3db21757.svg]<http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954>

OpenStreetMap
Weitere Informationen...<http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954>



Any ideas (which do not invent a new highway tag)?


Gerd

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[John Eldredge]

We have generally avoided the use of acronyms in tagging. Most people, 
including me, wouldn't recognize the meaning of sign=pcms upon seeing it.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 29, 2015 3:49:25 AM Paul Johnson  wrote:


I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a
"programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it
traffic_sign=pcms

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:32 AM, Gerd Petermann <
gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com> wrote:


Please see

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954

OpenStreetMap
Weitere Informationen... 


Any ideas (which do not invent a new highway tag)?


Gerd

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 3:57 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
> 2015-10-29 9:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson :
>
>> I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a
>> "programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it
>> traffic_sign=pcms
>>
>
>
> please, let's continue to avoid abbreviations. "pcms" is cryptic to me and
> likely to many others too.
> Wikipedia has an article about them called "variable-message sign" (IMHO
> sounds slightly nicer, leads to a shorter value and includes
> "non-programmable" signs: traffic_sign=variable-message_sign, even if the
> hyphen-underscore mix might lead to minor tagging inconsistencies).
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-message_sign
> The article also states that a common name in the UK is "matrix_sign" (is
> ok as well, focusing more on the physical aspect than on the function).
>

 How about traffic_sign=variable?
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Gerd Petermann]

well, in the meantime I found a tag highway=overhead_road_sign, but I think 
this is just another

case of putting to much information into one tag value.

My understanding is that we should try to avoid that, esp. for

rather rare objects.

So, this could be something like

traffic_sign=display (or intermittend, variable, ?)

overhead=yes

...


Gerd




Von: Paul Johnson 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. Oktober 2015 09:33
An: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a 
"programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it traffic_sign=pcms

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:32 AM, Gerd Petermann 
mailto:gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Please see

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954

[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo-ba6c06f3c4bf54a07351d27aa28a2b40e483cf1bbe533cd544c1d19e3db21757.svg]<http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954>

OpenStreetMap
Weitere Informationen...<http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954>



Any ideas (which do not invent a new highway tag)?


Gerd

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-10-29 9:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson :

> I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a
> "programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it
> traffic_sign=pcms
>


please, let's continue to avoid abbreviations. "pcms" is cryptic to me and
likely to many others too.
Wikipedia has an article about them called "variable-message sign" (IMHO
sounds slightly nicer, leads to a shorter value and includes
"non-programmable" signs: traffic_sign=variable-message_sign, even if the
hyphen-underscore mix might lead to minor tagging inconsistencies).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-message_sign
The article also states that a common name in the UK is "matrix_sign" (is
ok as well, focusing more on the physical aspect than on the function).

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Paul Johnson]

I think we'd have to invent a tag.  I only know them to be called a
"programmable changeable message sign", so I'd probably tag it
traffic_sign=pcms

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:32 AM, Gerd Petermann <
gpetermann_muenc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Please see
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954
> 
> OpenStreetMap
> Weitere Informationen... 
>
>
> Any ideas (which do not invent a new highway tag)?
>
>
> Gerd
>
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
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[Tagging] How to tag a "overhead electronic display" ?

[Gerd Petermann]

Please see

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/31846954

[http://www.openstreetmap.org/assets/osm_logo-ba6c06f3c4bf54a07351d27aa28a2b40e483cf1bbe533cd544c1d19e3db21757.svg]

OpenStreetMap
Weitere Informationen...



Any ideas (which do not invent a new highway tag)?


Gerd
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