Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 17.06.2016 13:23, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a):


I wouldn't tag them as "parcel box". Your laundry is not a parcel.
Maybe laundry drop off / pick up would be a more suitable term, not a
good tag eventually (too long). What about "laundry_box" and a good
description in the wiki?


Guess you're right, I haven't found anything better. Moreover, if we 
have parcel_box and laundry_box it would also be consistent with 
amenity=post_box we already have (and rightly so).


I will try to prepare two proposals soon and announce it here.

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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-06-17 12:16 GMT+02:00 Daniel Koć :

> But parcel receiving also does not include direct payment (at least I was
> using just a pass code to open),
>


+1, yes, parcel receiving also has nothing to do with vending. Even if you
had to directly pay something, it still would not be a vending machine,
because you don't buy the parcel there, you just receive it.



>
> So laundry sending/receiving machine may be tagged for example as
> "amenity=parcel_box + laundry=yes/laundry_service=yes" (special case of
> parcels) or just "amenity=laundry_box", "amenity=laundry_machine".
>


I wouldn't tag them as "parcel box". Your laundry is not a parcel. Maybe
laundry drop off / pick up would be a more suitable term, not a good tag
eventually (too long). What about "laundry_box" and a good description in
the wiki?



>
> I think amenity=photo_booth (which is marked as an exception - instead of
> vending=photo) is interesting to look closer. It would make sense if we
> define vending as a service for dispensing _standard_ (serial) consumer
> goods and photos/parcels/laundry are personal.
>


in the case of a photo booth I think that vending machine might be
acceptable (it is about selling a service, the photo taking and
developping), although I clearly prefer amenity=photo_booth as a tag.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 17.06.2016 8:00, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a):

So your pinball example is still invalid, as expected, but laundromat 
fits this definition IMO.


it doesn't, because nothing is dispensed after payment


OK, now I see you're right.


parcel sending is something different and is wrongly classified under
vending machine (probably by other people whose mother tongue isn't
English).


But parcel receiving also does not include direct payment (at least I 
was using just a pass code to open), so this would be a strong point for 
"amenity=parcel_box + parcel_pickup=yes + parcel_mail_in=yes" instead of 
"amenity=vending_machine + vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in".


So laundry sending/receiving machine may be tagged for example as 
"amenity=parcel_box + laundry=yes/laundry_service=yes" (special case of 
parcels) or just "amenity=laundry_box", "amenity=laundry_machine".


I think amenity=photo_booth (which is marked as an exception - instead 
of vending=photo) is interesting to look closer. It would make sense if 
we define vending as a service for dispensing _standard_ (serial) 
consumer goods and photos/parcels/laundry are personal.


BTW: Sorry, Andy, as you see the problem is too general to split the 
threads.


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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 16 giu 2016, alle ore 21:37, Daniel Koć  ha scritto:
> 
> English is not my mother tongue, but I see here nothing about selling - just 
> "dispencing" (which means "releasing", I guess).


vending comes from latin and means selling
dispensing after payment is very close, don't you think?


> So your pinball example is still invalid, as expected, but laundromat fits 
> this definition IMO.


it doesn't, because nothing is dispensed after payment


> I guess the definition should be broader a bit, since we already have parcel 
> sending machine as vending and laundromat is partially about sending too.


parcel sending is something different and is wrongly classified under vending 
machine (probably by other people whose mother tongue isn't English).

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 16.06.2016 21:02, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a):


a vending machine is vending (selling) something. Here nothing is sold
(as opposed to the tobacco example). E.g. a pinball isn't a vending
machine, even if it sells entertainment ;-)


"A vending machine is a machine that dispenses items such as snacks, 
beverages, alcohol, cigarettes, lottery tickets to customers 
automatically, after the customer inserts currency or credit into the 
machine."


[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vending_machine ]

English is not my mother tongue, but I see here nothing about selling - 
just "dispencing" (which means "releasing", I guess). So your pinball 
example is still invalid, as expected, but laundromat fits this 
definition IMO. I guess the definition should be broader a bit, since we 
already have parcel sending machine as vending and laundromat is 
partially about sending too. They are not the same, but still I see the 
strong analogy (including the fact, that this was just pushing the idea 
further by the same company which operates parcel boxes here in Poland).


ATM is also interesting case, but here the "items" are money and payment 
is indirect, so that's a different story for me.


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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 16 giu 2016, alle ore 17:42, Daniel Koć  ha scritto:
> 
> I still think of them rather as a vending machine than self-service "shop", 
> since there is no room to get into. This is the same as shop=tobacco vs  
> amenity=vending_machine + vending=cigarettes.




a vending machine is vending (selling) something. Here nothing is sold (as 
opposed to the tobacco example). E.g. a pinball isn't a vending machine, even 
if it sells entertainment ;-)
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 16 giu 2016, alle ore 18:26, Dave Swarthout 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> You could add automated=yes as well as payment:cash=yes to clarify the 
> situation


are they automated? I had thought of them as kind of lockers, someone going 
there and picking up your laundry and later put it back when it's clean.
Automated would be more appropriate if the thingy washed your stuff.

cheers,
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Dave Swarthout]

You could add automated=yes as well as payment:cash=yes to clarify the
situation

Dave

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Philip Barnes  wrote:

> These are tagged as shop=laundry, 13267 uses.
> See http://taginfo.osm.org/tags/shop=laundry
>
> Its only called a landromat in the US.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> On Thu Jun 16 14:32:40 2016 GMT+0100, Daniel Koć wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was trying to tag laundromat (laundry vending machine), but found
> > theres nothing like this on Wiki:
> >
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dvending_machine
> >
> > However we have vending=laundry_detergent documented with just a few
> > uses in Taginfo. There are also a few that can be used for a laundrymat:
> >
> > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/vending=laundry
> > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/vending=laundry_service
> >
> > I would vote for vending=laundry (it's simpler) and add it to this wiki
> > to avoid confusion as early as possible.
> >
> > ***
> >
> > I'm also not sure if we should make another exception (like
> > amenity=photo_booth instead of amenity=vending_machine+vending=photo)
> > for parcel boxes.
> >
> > The problem is they can be used both for picking and dropping boxes,
> > resulting in ugly "vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in". I would rather
> > like it to be tagged as amenity=parcel_box, because:
> > 1. It's more universal (we can make parcel_pickup=yes/no and
> > parcel_mail_in=yes/no when we know exactly, which is not always clear
> > when tagging)
> > 2. We would avoid semicolon notation, which is much more popular case
> > (1 761) than both vending=parcel_pickup (447) and vending=parcel_mail_in
> > (339) combined.
> >
> > --
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> >
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Andy Townsend]

On 16/06/2016 16:42, Daniel Koć wrote:

W dniu 16.06.2016 17:30, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a):


are you tagging single washing machines or businesses where they can
be found? Is this about indoor mapping?


Outdoor, definitely =} :

http://spedycje.pl/images/artykuly/2014/Image/sept014/Pralniomat.jpg 


Erm - I think it's worth splitting the thread into "washing machines 
(and potentially vending of washing powder for them)" and "parcel 
boxes".  People (including me) seem to be getting confused...


Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 16.06.2016 17:30, Martin Koppenhoefer napisał(a):


are you tagging single washing machines or businesses where they can
be found? Is this about indoor mapping?


Outdoor, definitely =} :

http://spedycje.pl/images/artykuly/2014/Image/sept014/Pralniomat.jpg

You can check also my explanation and links here:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016-June/029407.html

I still think of them rather as a vending machine than self-service 
"shop", since there is no room to get into. This is the same as 
shop=tobacco vs  amenity=vending_machine + vending=cigarettes.


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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 16 giu 2016, alle ore 17:18, Philip Barnes  
> ha scritto:
> 
> It still fits the shop=laundry tag, its just a hi tech service wash.


if the washing takes place at a different location, I wouldn't think 
shop=laundry fits particularly well. Maybe with an extra tag

cheers,
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 16 giu 2016, alle ore 17:05, Daniel Koć  ha scritto:
> 
> I was taking about laundry parcel/vending machines, not the laundry self 
> service



I see. Are these really vending machines? There's no actual sale, no? We aren't 
tagging postboxes as vending machines, and we shouldn't do for excrement bags 
and automated parcel receiving/output, so these should also likely get a 
different tag than vending.

cheers,
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 16 giu 2016, alle ore 15:32, Daniel Koć  ha scritto:
> 
> I was trying to tag laundromat (laundry vending machine), but found theres 
> nothing like this on Wiki:


are you tagging single washing machines or businesses where they can be found? 
Is this about indoor mapping?

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Philip Barnes]

It still fits the shop=laundry tag, its just a hi tech service wash.

shop=laundry 
self_service=no
laundry_service=yes

All ftom the wiki.

You may want to add a url.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On Thu Jun 16 16:05:33 2016 GMT+0100, Daniel Koć wrote:
> W dniu 16.06.2016 16:46, Philip Barnes napisał(a):
> > These are tagged as shop=laundry, 13267 uses.
> > See http://taginfo.osm.org/tags/shop=laundry
> > 
> > Its only called a landromat in the US.
> 
> I was taking about laundry parcel/vending machines, not the laundry self 
> service - it's just a specialized parcel box service for sending and 
> receiving your laundry. I see that these names can be very confusing, so 
> see here (in English):
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgDbgDdZPo
> 
> The Hi'Shine network ( https://hishine.pl/ ) is quite visible in my 
> city.
> 
> -- 
> "Low, low, low..." [M. Kempa]
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 16.06.2016 16:46, Philip Barnes napisał(a):

These are tagged as shop=laundry, 13267 uses.
See http://taginfo.osm.org/tags/shop=laundry

Its only called a landromat in the US.


I was taking about laundry parcel/vending machines, not the laundry self 
service - it's just a specialized parcel box service for sending and 
receiving your laundry. I see that these names can be very confusing, so 
see here (in English):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgDbgDdZPo

The Hi'Shine network ( https://hishine.pl/ ) is quite visible in my 
city.


--
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Re: [Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Philip Barnes]

These are tagged as shop=laundry, 13267 uses.
See http://taginfo.osm.org/tags/shop=laundry

Its only called a landromat in the US.

Phil (trigpoint)

On Thu Jun 16 14:32:40 2016 GMT+0100, Daniel Koć wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I was trying to tag laundromat (laundry vending machine), but found 
> theres nothing like this on Wiki:
> 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dvending_machine
> 
> However we have vending=laundry_detergent documented with just a few 
> uses in Taginfo. There are also a few that can be used for a laundrymat:
> 
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/vending=laundry
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/vending=laundry_service
> 
> I would vote for vending=laundry (it's simpler) and add it to this wiki 
> to avoid confusion as early as possible.
> 
> ***
> 
> I'm also not sure if we should make another exception (like 
> amenity=photo_booth instead of amenity=vending_machine+vending=photo) 
> for parcel boxes.
> 
> The problem is they can be used both for picking and dropping boxes, 
> resulting in ugly "vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in". I would rather 
> like it to be tagged as amenity=parcel_box, because:
> 1. It's more universal (we can make parcel_pickup=yes/no and 
> parcel_mail_in=yes/no when we know exactly, which is not always clear 
> when tagging)
> 2. We would avoid semicolon notation, which is much more popular case 
> (1 761) than both vending=parcel_pickup (447) and vending=parcel_mail_in 
> (339) combined.
> 
> -- 
> "Low, low, low..." [M. Kempa]
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[Tagging] Laundromat and parcel box (vending machines)

[Daniel Koć]

Hi,

I was trying to tag laundromat (laundry vending machine), but found 
theres nothing like this on Wiki:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dvending_machine

However we have vending=laundry_detergent documented with just a few 
uses in Taginfo. There are also a few that can be used for a laundrymat:


http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/vending=laundry
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/vending=laundry_service

I would vote for vending=laundry (it's simpler) and add it to this wiki 
to avoid confusion as early as possible.


***

I'm also not sure if we should make another exception (like 
amenity=photo_booth instead of amenity=vending_machine+vending=photo) 
for parcel boxes.


The problem is they can be used both for picking and dropping boxes, 
resulting in ugly "vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in". I would rather 
like it to be tagged as amenity=parcel_box, because:
1. It's more universal (we can make parcel_pickup=yes/no and 
parcel_mail_in=yes/no when we know exactly, which is not always clear 
when tagging)
2. We would avoid semicolon notation, which is much more popular case 
(1 761) than both vending=parcel_pickup (447) and vending=parcel_mail_in 
(339) combined.


--
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