Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[715371]

Hi,

late, but better than never: Thank you for your replies!

I tried to sum up some of your ideas at the discussion page of Buildings
and added a new section "Mentionable usage" to the page.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Buildings

Cheers
Tobias

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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[John F. Eldredge]

Another common use for such temporary buildings is as the office at a major 
construction site. They may sit in one place until the construction project is 
completed, or may be relocated for different phases of the project. Once the 
project is completed, the construction office trailers are removed.


On December 16, 2014 8:30:31 AM CST, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 7:44 AM, John Willis  wrote:
> >
> > Semi temporary buildings are usually called portables. Schools I
> have been
> > to in the US will have them in place for several years, though they
> lack a
> > foundation and can be moved away whole or in sections as a truck
> trailer -
> > similar to a mobile home. Although the method is not similar, the
> office
> > bus I wrote about is used in a similar manner. Perhaps building =
> portable?
> 
> 
> Well, wondering if portable is starting to become a misnomer for "just
> plain cheaping out," since everyplace I've seen 'em (mostly southern
> California and western Oregon) park 'em once, then use them until they
> rot
> and collapse 4 decades later.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, 
Jr.
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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2014-12-16 14:44 GMT+01:00 John Willis :
>
> Semi temporary buildings are usually called portables. Schools I have been
> to in the US will have them in place for several years, though they lack a
> foundation and can be moved away whole or in sections as a truck trailer -
> similar to a mobile home.



What I get from a google image search for portable building all looks
perfectly fine as building in OSM:
https://www.google.it/images?q=portable+building&oi=image_result_group

Not sure if "portable" is a nice building type for OSM, I'd see this more
as an attribute and use something like "cabin" or "hut" or "shed" (or
whatever it is) to describe the typology (in terms of function and
structure / aspect / image).

You can find examples for temporary buildings also in looking at the
designs for emergency shelter, eg.

complete concrete shelter put up in one day:
http://designboom.com/weblog/images/images_2/andy/00_aerobics2012/pop-up_sample_lesson/07.jpg
(this will be quite permanent due to the nature of concrete)

the opposite, a light-weight structure:
http://designboom.com/weblog/images/images_2/andy/00_aerobics2012/pop-up_sample_lesson/03.jpg

this one is more like a tent, but if it sits there for years...
http://designboom.com/weblog/images/images_2/andy/00_aerobics2012/pop-up_sample_lesson/02.jpg

african style:
http://designboom.com/weblog/images/images_2/andy/00_aerobics2012/pop-up_sample_lesson/08.jpg
http://designboom.com/weblog/images/images_2/andy/00_aerobics2012/pop-up_sample_lesson/09.jpg

Who wouldn't call this a house (it's made of shipping containers):
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/160722280425530628/

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 7:44 AM, John Willis  wrote:
>
> Semi temporary buildings are usually called portables. Schools I have been
> to in the US will have them in place for several years, though they lack a
> foundation and can be moved away whole or in sections as a truck trailer -
> similar to a mobile home. Although the method is not similar, the office
> bus I wrote about is used in a similar manner. Perhaps building = portable?


Well, wondering if portable is starting to become a misnomer for "just
plain cheaping out," since everyplace I've seen 'em (mostly southern
California and western Oregon) park 'em once, then use them until they rot
and collapse 4 decades later.
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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[John Willis]

Semi temporary buildings are usually called portables. Schools I have been to 
in the US will have them in place for several years, though they lack a 
foundation and can be moved away whole or in sections as a truck trailer - 
similar to a mobile home. Although the method is not similar, the office bus I 
wrote about is used in a similar manner. Perhaps building = portable?

Javbw 


> On Dec 16, 2014, at 9:33 PM, fly  wrote:
> 
> So we are talking about objects which are movable but nearly do not move
> and are used similar to buildings.
> 
> Instead of using key building we could use man_made or even some new one.
> 
> For the fact that these objects are movable we need an additional key
> with perhaps some values.
> 
> To distinguish between self-powered or not might be useful, as well.
> 
> Just, my 2 ct
> fly
> 
>> Am 15.12.2014 um 12:21 schrieb johnw:
>> One of the driving schools I went to is a permanent course laid out on a
>> flood plain ( as is the soccer fields and helipads), but as it is inside
>> a leveed flood canal, they are not allowed to build permanent buildings. 
>> 
>> So the driving school uses a bus. It has a desk, a waiting room, and
>> everything.  It has parked in the same spot for years, day in and day
>> out, occasionally moved to higher ground during a typhoon. It is a
>> drivable vehicle.
>> 
>> I tagged that bus as a building (and named it “バス” - “bus" in
>> Japanese) - it's where you need to go for the driving school, and it is
>> always there. 
>> 
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.32157/138.99813  
>> 
>> 
>> - Javbw
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 13, 2014, at 5:33 PM, Pieren >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Perhaps the attribute of 'moveable' or not should be specified in a
>>> separate tag (without significant deconstruction efforts or
>>> foundations because basically all buildings can be moved
>>> theoritically). I also don't see a problem to keep "building" for
>>> permanent structures, floating on water or on wheels (caravan).
>>> 
>>> Pieren
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[fly]

So we are talking about objects which are movable but nearly do not move
and are used similar to buildings.

Instead of using key building we could use man_made or even some new one.

For the fact that these objects are movable we need an additional key
with perhaps some values.

To distinguish between self-powered or not might be useful, as well.

Just, my 2 ct
fly

Am 15.12.2014 um 12:21 schrieb johnw:
> One of the driving schools I went to is a permanent course laid out on a
> flood plain ( as is the soccer fields and helipads), but as it is inside
> a leveed flood canal, they are not allowed to build permanent buildings. 
> 
> So the driving school uses a bus. It has a desk, a waiting room, and
> everything.  It has parked in the same spot for years, day in and day
> out, occasionally moved to higher ground during a typhoon. It is a
> drivable vehicle.
> 
> I tagged that bus as a building (and named it “バス” - “bus" in
> Japanese) - it's where you need to go for the driving school, and it is
> always there. 
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.32157/138.99813  
> 
> 
> - Javbw
> 
> 
>> On Dec 13, 2014, at 5:33 PM, Pieren > > wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps the attribute of 'moveable' or not should be specified in a
>> separate tag (without significant deconstruction efforts or
>> foundations because basically all buildings can be moved
>> theoritically). I also don't see a problem to keep "building" for
>> permanent structures, floating on water or on wheels (caravan).
>>
>> Pieren
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> 
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2014-12-12 1:59 GMT+01:00 715371 :
>
> I am wondering if the building-tag should be used for moveable objects.
> I guess that this is not in the sense of the meaning of building (see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building#Residential and check for
> houseboats).
>



I believe that we shouldn't focus on the wikipedia definition of building,
as in OSM the tag tends to be used in a more general way (the English term
"structure" seems to fit better).
We shouldn't focus (IMHO) whether something can be moved, but rather if it
will moved often. Being movable should be the only reason to exclude
something from being a "building". A houseboat or floating home might
qualify as a building for osm, even if it isn't for some national law on
buildings (or is for other law or in other jurisdiction).

FWIW, everything can be moved, it depends on the motivation if it will be
moved. See here for a famous building moved:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdJwt12CCVo

Or here (a genuine roman temple in California):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearst_Castle#mediaviewer/File:Hearst_Castle_pool.jpg

Or these:
http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/house-moving-3.jpg
http://www.penmachine.com/images/housemove-lg.jpg
http://www.dbhousemovers.com/i//cabela_house_033_1.jpg
...

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[johnw]

One of the driving schools I went to is a permanent course laid out on a flood 
plain ( as is the soccer fields and helipads), but as it is inside a leveed 
flood canal, they are not allowed to build permanent buildings. 

So the driving school uses a bus. It has a desk, a waiting room, and 
everything.  It has parked in the same spot for years, day in and day out, 
occasionally moved to higher ground during a typhoon. It is a drivable vehicle.

I tagged that bus as a building (and named it “バス” - “bus" in Japanese) - it's 
where you need to go for the driving school, and it is always there. 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.32157/138.99813 
  


- Javbw


> On Dec 13, 2014, at 5:33 PM, Pieren  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the attribute of 'moveable' or not should be specified in a
> separate tag (without significant deconstruction efforts or
> foundations because basically all buildings can be moved
> theoritically). I also don't see a problem to keep "building" for
> permanent structures, floating on water or on wheels (caravan).
> 
> Pieren
> 
> ___
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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[Pieren]

Perhaps the attribute of 'moveable' or not should be specified in a
separate tag (without significant deconstruction efforts or
foundations because basically all buildings can be moved
theoritically). I also don't see a problem to keep "building" for
permanent structures, floating on water or on wheels (caravan).

Pieren

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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 9:47 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> When is a 'houseboat' a floating home? Here houseboats are self propelled,
> floating homes are not .. don't know about elsewhere. That would be a
> fairly simple distinction.


Not all houseboats are self propelled. Owners often hire small tugs to move
them to new morning.

What I was trying to convey is that people often group houseboats and
floating homes as the same thing. Just because someone tagged it as
building=houseboat, doesn't mean that it is correct. Over time these will
get corrected.


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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[Warin]

On 12/12/2014 3:44 PM, tagging-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 19:05:03 -0800
From: Clifford Snow 
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"

Subject: Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, 715371  wrote:


I am wondering if the building-tag should be used for moveable objects.
I guess that this is not in the sense of the meaning of building (see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building#Residential and check for
houseboats).

For example according to taginfo houseboats are mapped as
building=houseboat 11496 times. So this is not a new or minor tag.



People often confuse houseboats with floating homes. It could be that these
structures are incorrectly tagged. I would not recommend any mass edit to
change them to man_man.

Clifford



When is a 'houseboat' a floating home? Here houseboats are self 
propelled, floating homes are not .. don't know about elsewhere. That 
would be a fairly simple distinction.


The military in some places put numbers on their buildings.. one ship 
was given a building number due to the fact that it spent a lot of time 
in port.. the Admiral was not amused .. the ship spent a little more 
time at sea from then on.  So how much time does an object need to stay 
in one spot before it is considered fixed? I'd not map things that move 
frequently .. cars, trucks, boats, ships, trains ...
Some caravan parks have 'mobile homes' that don't move .. well not for 
many years.. I'd map them.


Perhaps anything tagged building=houseboat could be made into 
building=floating_home ?


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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[Mateusz Konieczny]

I encountered building=ship used for ones that are staying in the same
place for decades (for example, museum ships). It is not so bad fit.

2014-12-12 1:59 GMT+01:00 715371 :
>
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if the building-tag should be used for moveable objects.
> I guess that this is not in the sense of the meaning of building (see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building#Residential and check for
> houseboats).
>
> For example according to taginfo houseboats are mapped as
> building=houseboat 11496 times. So this is not a new or minor tag.
>
> I guess in this case man_made=boat/ship fits better than any building=*.
>
> Nevertheless there is more stuff which could be moved from building to
> some other keys. Maybe there are solutions like man_made=moveable_object
> possible.
>
> Some examples:
> building=static_caravan
> building=houseboat
> building=boathouse
> building=ship
> building=boat
> building=motorhome
>
> Do you have any ideas?
>
> Regards
> Tobias
>
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Re: [Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, 715371  wrote:

> I am wondering if the building-tag should be used for moveable objects.
> I guess that this is not in the sense of the meaning of building (see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building#Residential and check for
> houseboats).
>
> For example according to taginfo houseboats are mapped as
> building=houseboat 11496 times. So this is not a new or minor tag.
>
> I guess in this case man_made=boat/ship fits better than any building=*.
>
> Nevertheless there is more stuff which could be moved from building to
> some other keys. Maybe there are solutions like man_made=moveable_object
> possible.
>

I added a number of building=floating_home tags. (Think of "Sleepless in
Seattle") For all practical purposes they are houses that just happen to be
on water. Homes on water comprise of floating homes and houseboats. A
houseboat is a house built on top of a boat like hull, often a barge.
Floating homes are built on floating logs. While a floating home can be
moved, they are stay in place. While a houseboat does get moved.

Man_made is probably a better fit than building for houseboats.

People often confuse houseboats with floating homes. It could be that these
structures are incorrectly tagged. I would not recommend any mass edit to
change them to man_man.

Clifford



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[Tagging] Moveable objects tagged as building=*

[715371]

Hi,

I am wondering if the building-tag should be used for moveable objects.
I guess that this is not in the sense of the meaning of building (see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building#Residential and check for
houseboats).

For example according to taginfo houseboats are mapped as
building=houseboat 11496 times. So this is not a new or minor tag.

I guess in this case man_made=boat/ship fits better than any building=*.

Nevertheless there is more stuff which could be moved from building to
some other keys. Maybe there are solutions like man_made=moveable_object
possible.

Some examples:
building=static_caravan
building=houseboat
building=boathouse
building=ship
building=boat
building=motorhome

Do you have any ideas?

Regards
Tobias

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