Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
I was playing around with taginfo and run into a strange set of tags in northern Germany. These are barriers separating opposite lanes on motorways. There are lots of them like this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/118720124 Key/tag combos are : barrier=beam_barrier highway=axis visor=hedge My english, tagging and motorway mapping skills are not good enough, but I want to learn, that's why I ask you the following questions: - Is beam_barrier a useful addition to this proposal? - Is this guy ahead if his time or is this mapping crap? - How would you map these barriers? - Would you map these barriers at all? regards Zsolt Herrbert74 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:37 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Am 11.07.2011 17:24, schrieb Zsolt Bertalan: I was playing around with taginfo and run into a strange set of tags in northern Germany. These are barriers separating opposite lanes on motorways. There are lots of them like this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/118720124 Key/tag combos are : barrier=beam_barrier highway=axis visor=hedge My english, tagging and motorway mapping skills are not good enough, but I want to learn, that's why I ask you the following questions: - Is beam_barrier a useful addition to this proposal? - Is this guy ahead if his time or is this mapping crap? - How would you map these barriers? - Would you map these barriers at all? There was a discussion on talk-de@ about it: http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg85941.html Some user tried some fancy micro mapping. A beam-barrier often is put onto guard_rail. Which leads to the question I ask before but which is still unanwsered: how to map barriers on top of each other. Cheers fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 11/07/2011 16:47, fly wrote: There was a discussion on talk-de@ about it: http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg85941.html Thanks - I was wondering what visor=hedge meant! ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 11/07/2011 17:03, SomeoneElse wrote: On 11/07/2011 16:47, fly wrote: There was a discussion on talk-de@ about it: http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-de@openstreetmap.org/msg85941.html Thanks - I was wondering what visor=hedge meant! I wonder if screen=hedge would be what they're looking for? -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Am 07.07.2011 06:26, schrieb Gary Gallagher: Returning to my original question. If we only do a building=entrance and don't have a barrier=door tag would we apply something like barrier:key=yes/no/number as entrance:key=yes/no/number? So, you moving the barrier tag under the entrance namespace. Could be missleading if you add this to barrier=entrance. IMHO, I do not get it, why we do not use barrier=door/gate. I did add entrance=main/cellar to some building=entrance but this is not missleading and at least entrance=main works perfectly with barrier=entrance, aswell. Cheers fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/07/2011 23:24, Pieren wrote: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 And this case, Cour Delepine entrance, Paris: It certainly looks like doors. But if one knew that it led into a 'cour' (courtyard), one would call them gates (or a (double) gate). The OED defines 'door' as: ' 1. ' a. A movable barrier of wood or other material, consisting either of one piece, or of several pieces framed together, usually turning on hinges or sliding in a groove, and serving to close or open a passage into a building, room, etc.' The final 'etc.' leaves room for argument, but otherwise the definition suggests that the space on one side of the barrier must be inside a building for it to be considered a door. -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging I think the problem is that the English word door has a more specific meaning than the French word porte evidently does. The closest cognate in English would be portal, which means door, gate, or entrance. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
I'm just trying to think about the way we are meant to map for the blind. Currently this wiki entry http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_for_the_blind recommends that we tag addresses not on the building but on the entrance. This is the feature which a blind person needs to find. I was struck by the fact that the barrier proposal contains features that might be of interest to a blind person. Most entrances are not open - they have a barrier like structure (a door) which you have to navigate to get into the building. Providing additional information about this feature (like lock arrangements) might aid a persons ability to negotiate their way through it. Gary On Thu, 2011-07-07 at 14:04 +0200, fly wrote: Am 07.07.2011 06:26, schrieb Gary Gallagher: Returning to my original question. If we only do a building=entrance and don't have a barrier=door tag would we apply something like barrier:key=yes/no/number as entrance:key=yes/no/number? So, you moving the barrier tag under the entrance namespace. Could be missleading if you add this to barrier=entrance. IMHO, I do not get it, why we do not use barrier=door/gate. I did add entrance=main/cellar to some building=entrance but this is not missleading and at least entrance=main works perfectly with barrier=entrance, aswell. Cheers fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 2:00 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.comwrote: I think the problem is that the English word door has a more specific meaning than the French word porte evidently does. The closest cognate in English would be portal, which means door, gate, or entrance. Yes, in French, a portal closing an entrance for pedestrians is called a door no matter if it is inside or a building entrance. The gate, which is at best translated as portail is more for vehicules (although we also have porte cochère which is translated as ... carriage door or porte-cochere but that's another story ;-). Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 07/06/2011 03:35 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2011/7/7 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: And this case, Cour Delepine entrance, Paris: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 (no open space on top) I'd say yes, I guess there is some language problem that porte in french can also translate to gate sometimes. Bonus points on that one...where's it actually say Cour Delepine? Looks like it's actually 37 Rue Charonne. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 4:34 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: Could you explain or give an example for a door leading to the outside of beeing completely outside (e.g. part of a wall or fence) that is not a gate? IMHO gate does comprise doors (especially doors that lead to the outside). Here is an example (in Paris): http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Passage+de+la+Boule+Blanchehl=frll=48.85134,2.37229spn=0.001273,0.001982sll=48.853082,2.370364sspn=0.002545,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.851346,2.37229panoid=M3k9nxcYnp2fn3fpfeP39Qcbp=12,33.63,,0,-2.44 The Passage de la Boule Blanche is closed by a door. Or would you qualify this a gate ? Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 06/07/2011 21:43, Pieren wrote: The Passage de la Boule Blanche is closed by a door. Or would you qualify this a gate ? Speaking entirely for myself, I'd call that a gate. Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/6 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Passage+de+la+Boule+Blanchehl=frll=48.85134,2.37229spn=0.001273,0.001982sll=48.853082,2.370364sspn=0.002545,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.851346,2.37229panoid=M3k9nxcYnp2fn3fpfeP39Qcbp=12,33.63,,0,-2.44 The Passage de la Boule Blanche is closed by a door. Or would you qualify this a gate ? Yes, I'd call that a gate. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:10 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I'd call that a gate. Cheers, Martin And this case, Cour Delepine entrance, Paris: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 (no open space on top) Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/7 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: And this case, Cour Delepine entrance, Paris: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 (no open space on top) I'd say yes, I guess there is some language problem that porte in french can also translate to gate sometimes. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 06/07/2011 23:24, Pieren wrote: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=paris,+Cour+Delepinehl=frll=48.853267,2.376236spn=0.001272,0.001982sll=48.853393,2.376266sspn=0.002527,0.003964t=kz=19layer=ccbll=48.853272,2.376236panoid=QaPsmt8GresisBm_udoo9wcbp=12,4.87,,0,10.23 And this case, Cour Delepine entrance, Paris: It certainly looks like doors. But if one knew that it led into a 'cour' (courtyard), one would call them gates (or a (double) gate). The OED defines 'door' as: ' 1. ' a. A movable barrier of wood or other material, consisting either of one piece, or of several pieces framed together, usually turning on hinges or sliding in a groove, and serving to close or open a passage into a building, room, etc.' The final 'etc.' leaves room for argument, but otherwise the definition suggests that the space on one side of the barrier must be inside a building for it to be considered a door. -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Returning to my original question. If we only do a building=entrance and don't have a barrier=door tag would we apply something like barrier:key=yes/no/number as entrance:key=yes/no/number? regards Gary On Mon, 2011-07-04 at 13:03 +0200, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2011/7/2 Gary Gallagher g.null.dev...@gmail.com: I like the proposal. I'm always coming across barriers I can't adequately tag. The section that also caught my eye was the bit near the end about subtags like barrier:key=yes/no/number. I've been trying to tag in useful ways for the blind and was wondering whether this sort of subtag could be extended to entrances. Or should entrances have an additional barrier=door tag then a barrier:key=yes/no/number tag? Yes, of course these can be added to entrances (that is their main purpose). I usually tag entrances with building=entrance. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/1 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: thank you for this comment Paul. I overlooked this and will change it the next days. I guess the thing on the pic is a kind of guard_rail (probably could be subtagged). I didn't put this picture in myself and it is not showing what I had in mind when suggesting rope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_barrier Thank you Nathan. I added this as a distinct value cable_barrier to the proposal. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/1 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: On 06/30/2011 05:35 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: How about lane dividers? This is an example below, though where I'm thinking of them they actually divide a couple of lanes for about a km or so - no lane changing allowed at that point. http://www.ingalcivil.com.au/reboundable_lane_divider.html Wouldn't that be a form of bollards in a series? Well, maybe the ones in the picture are rigid and could be called bollards, but in the case they are flexible, on in other cases where a priority lane is divided by small pieces on the ground, bollard would not be the right name. lane-divider is too generic IMHO, as it doesn't say much about the physical appearance: whether the barrier can be crossed without damaging the vehicle or not, etc. This is one the kind of dividers commonly used in Rome for instance: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=romhl=dell=41.896933,12.501827spn=0.002976,0.005284t=hz=18layer=ccbll=41.896933,12.501827panoid=pghlMFQlmBnzHE7V13DBYQcbp=12,310.86,,1,9.46 cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/2 Gary Gallagher g.null.dev...@gmail.com: I like the proposal. I'm always coming across barriers I can't adequately tag. The section that also caught my eye was the bit near the end about subtags like barrier:key=yes/no/number. I've been trying to tag in useful ways for the blind and was wondering whether this sort of subtag could be extended to entrances. Or should entrances have an additional barrier=door tag then a barrier:key=yes/no/number tag? Yes, of course these can be added to entrances (that is their main purpose). I usually tag entrances with building=entrance. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/3 Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com: Maybe these are better examples of what I meant, though I have seen the others in use in the same role. http://www.zjeastsea.com/en/lane-divider.html http://www.roadstud.com.cn/road-studs/61.html I wouldn't call them bollards - bollard implies to me something that will actually damage your vehicle, or completely stop you going through. These you can drive over, but you'll notice that you have. It's a barrier that is more informational (You shouldn't do this) than real (you can't do this). +1 do you have a tagging suggesting? maybe barrier=road_stud ? What would you call continuous ones like the one I posted from street view? Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types + barrier on top of each other or nested
Am 01.07.2011 17:47, schrieb SomeoneElse: On 01/07/2011 16:49, fly wrote: A check on data how often these values are already used would be helpful, maybe we can accept some without voting. You mean like: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/barrier#values Thanks, Seems to me that there have been not many barriers mapped, so far fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/4 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Am 04.07.2011 13:03, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: 2011/7/2 Gary Gallagher g.null.dev...@gmail.com: I like the proposal. I'm always coming across barriers I can't adequately tag. The section that also caught my eye was the bit near the end about subtags like barrier:key=yes/no/number. I've been trying to tag in useful ways for the blind and was wondering whether this sort of subtag could be extended to entrances. Or should entrances have an additional barrier=door tag then a barrier:key=yes/no/number tag? Yes, of course these can be added to entrances (that is their main purpose). I usually tag entrances with building=entrance. I do not know/find barrier=door. Didi I miss something or do you want to add it to the proposal ? I do not want to add it, because I think that building=entrance does suit this case (maybe also barrier=gate if you want to use something from the barrier namespace). In my understanding of the wiki and tagging history, barrier=entrance does _not_ fit here, because it defines an opening rather then a closure (IMHO a door can also be closed while an opening/barrier=entrance is always open). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:51 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote: add it to the proposal ? I do not know/find barrier=door. Didi I miss something or do you want to I do not want to add it, because I think that building=entrance does I'm using barrier=door from time to time when a private service street is closed by a door (not a gate) or a named path or footway, again when it is closed physically by a door (it is private but has a street name and deserves several building entrances with different address numbers). Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/7/4 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:51 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I'm using barrier=door from time to time when a private service street is closed by a door (not a gate) or a named path or footway, again when it is closed physically by a door (it is private but has a street name and deserves several building entrances with different address numbers). Could you explain or give an example for a door leading to the outside of beeing completely outside (e.g. part of a wall or fence) that is not a gate? IMHO gate does comprise doors (especially doors that lead to the outside). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Tobias Knerr schrieb: Erik Johansson wrote: I think turnstiles and full height turnstiles should be the barrier=turnstile, add some extra tag to differentiate them. I'm convinced that this point wouldn't come up if the English language didn't happen to use the term turnstile for both types of barriers. But considering the fact, that the English language uses one term only, one may think about the term 'both types' ... Considering that you may jump over the lower one is - in my opinion - the same, as to say 'you may break through a wooden door opposite to a steal one' to claim separate main tags. A height limitation isn't tagged elsewhere as a separate main tag. So I am not convinced 'sufficiently'. Georg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:37 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types I think turnstiles and full height turnstiles should be the barrier=turnstile, add some extra tag to differentiate them. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Erik Johansson wrote: I think turnstiles and full height turnstiles should be the barrier=turnstile, add some extra tag to differentiate them. This has been discussed before, and in my opinion they are sufficiently different (how they look, whether you can jump over them, whether they tend to cause height limitations, ...) to warrant their own tags. I'm convinced that this point wouldn't come up if the English language didn't happen to use the term turnstile for both types of barriers. -- Tobias Knerr ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Yes this is a great proposal. I've come across many examples where I've been unable to adequately tag ways. I like the extra stuff that helps tag entrances which has potential for tagging for the blind On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 19:37 +0200, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types + barrier on top of each other or nested
Am 30.06.2011 19:37, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin Thanks for picking up this proposal. A check on data how often these values are already used would be helpful, maybe we can accept some without voting. I often come along barriers on top of each other ( E.a. a fence on top of a (retaining-)wall ) or nested (door within a gate). How do you map these ? Maybe we need to allow almost all barriers as ways. cu fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types + barrier on top of each other or nested
On 01/07/2011 16:49, fly wrote: A check on data how often these values are already used would be helpful, maybe we can accept some without voting. You mean like: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/barrier#values ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
I like the proposal. I'm always coming across barriers I can't adequately tag. The section that also caught my eye was the bit near the end about subtags like barrier:key=yes/no/number. I've been trying to tag in useful ways for the blind and was wondering whether this sort of subtag could be extended to entrances. Or should entrances have an additional barrier=door tag then a barrier:key=yes/no/number tag? Gary On Jul 1, 2011 3:30 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On 06/30/2011 05:35 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: How about lane dividers? This is an example below, though where I'm thinking of them they actually divide a couple of lanes for about a km or so - no lane changing allowed at that point. http://www.ingalcivil.com.au/reboundable_lane_divider.html Wouldn't that be a form of bollards in a series? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 06/30/2011 10:37 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin The rope barrier pictured is actually a crash fence commonly used as a cost saving measure on motorway medians in the US. They're not particularly effective against anything other than SUVs; cars tend to go under them and hgvs tend to go through them making them more or less worse than nothing. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On 06/30/2011 10:37 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin The rope barrier pictured is actually a crash fence commonly used as a cost saving measure on motorway medians in the US. They're not particularly effective against anything other than SUVs; cars tend to go under them and hgvs tend to go through them making them more or less worse than nothing. The rope barriers along motorways in the USA tend to be considerably sturdier than the wood-post-and-single-rope type shown in the wiki photograph. The rope barrier shown in the photograph is the sort that might be used along a park roadway, to discourage people from parking on the shoulder of the roadway. The motorway type tend to have steel I-beam posts, about one meter high, with multiple steel cables, and are fairly effective at stopping automobiles. SUVs and heavy goods vehicles tend to topple over the barriers, due to their high center of gravity. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
2011/6/30 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: The rope barrier pictured is actually a crash fence commonly used as a cost saving measure on motorway medians in the US. thank you for this comment Paul. I overlooked this and will change it the next days. I guess the thing on the pic is a kind of guard_rail (probably could be subtagged). I didn't put this picture in myself and it is not showing what I had in mind when suggesting rope. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 6/30/2011 7:13 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2011/6/30 Paul Johnsonba...@ursamundi.org: The rope barrier pictured is actually a crash fence commonly used as a cost saving measure on motorway medians in the US. thank you for this comment Paul. I overlooked this and will change it the next days. I guess the thing on the pic is a kind of guard_rail (probably could be subtagged). I didn't put this picture in myself and it is not showing what I had in mind when suggesting rope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_barrier ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 6/30/2011 1:37 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types How about a parking block? http://www.google.com/search?q=parking%20blocktbm=isch I wouldn't map them in parking lots, but I've seen them used elsewhere as barriers. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 06/30/2011 02:50 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On 06/30/2011 10:37 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin The rope barrier pictured is actually a crash fence commonly used as a cost saving measure on motorway medians in the US. They're not particularly effective against anything other than SUVs; cars tend to go under them and hgvs tend to go through them making them more or less worse than nothing. The rope barriers along motorways in the USA tend to be considerably sturdier than the wood-post-and-single-rope type shown in the wiki photograph. The rope barrier shown in the photograph is the sort that might be used along a park roadway, to discourage people from parking on the shoulder of the roadway. The motorway type tend to have steel I-beam posts, about one meter high, with multiple steel cables, and are fairly effective at stopping automobiles. SUVs and heavy goods vehicles tend to topple over the barriers, due to their high center of gravity. That's odd; I've yet to see any of the cable barrier installations in the northwest actually stop a car...usually they pass under the cable in the ditch below or big rigs just blow through 'em without much effect to the speed of the truck. I've only seen SUV's get caught in 'em, though I will concede they do tend to roll over on impact. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
How about lane dividers? This is an example below, though where I'm thinking of them they actually divide a couple of lanes for about a km or so - no lane changing allowed at that point. http://www.ingalcivil.com.au/reboundable_lane_divider.html Stephen On 1 July 2011 03:37, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
aul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On 06/30/2011 02:50 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On 06/30/2011 10:37 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Folk, I rediscovered an old proposal which is extending the set of barrier values. Please comment now on this, before we can eventually vote to get this to a more definite status: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types Cheers, Martin The rope barrier pictured is actually a crash fence commonly used as a cost saving measure on motorway medians in the US. They're not particularly effective against anything other than SUVs; cars tend to go under them and hgvs tend to go through them making them more or less worse than nothing. The rope barriers along motorways in the USA tend to be considerably sturdier than the wood-post-and-single-rope type shown in the wiki photograph. The rope barrier shown in the photograph is the sort that might be used along a park roadway, to discourage people from parking on the shoulder of the roadway. The motorway type tend to have steel I-beam posts, about one meter high, with multiple steel cables, and are fairly effective at stopping automobiles. SUVs and heavy goods vehicles tend to topple over the barriers, due to their high center of gravity. That's odd; I've yet to see any of the cable barrier installations in the northwest actually stop a car...usually they pass under the cable in the ditch below or big rigs just blow through 'em without much effect to the speed of the truck. I've only seen SUV's get caught in 'em, though I will concede they do tend to roll over on impact. This may be a factor of how low off the ground the bottom row of cables are located. Here in Tennessee, solid guardrails are mostly used. Cable barriers, when used, tend to have the bottom cable about the same distance off of the ground as the bottom of a solid guardrail, and the topmost cable about the same height as the top of a solid guardrail. So, only a wedge-nosed sports car would be likely to go under the cables. Admittedly, since most of the car/guardrail crashes that I have seen involved the solid guardrails, I am working from a small data set. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 6/30/11 9:06 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: This may be a factor of how low off the ground the bottom row of cables are located. Here in Tennessee, solid guardrails are mostly used. Cable barriers, when used, tend to have the bottom cable about the same distance off of the ground as the bottom of a solid guardrail, and the topmost cable about the same height as the top of a solid guardrail. So, only a wedge-nosed sports car would be likely to go under the cables. Admittedly, since most of the car/guardrail crashes that I have seen involved the solid guardrails, I am working from a small data set. in the past, a great many of the commonly installed barrier types have not been particularly effective, sometimes even dangerous. my experience is from road racing courses, where over the past 5-10 years we have seen significant changes in guardrail installations and in how tire barriers are deployed. i'd expect public highways to lag way behind, there's a huge amount of legacy and a bad funding situation for town county highway departments. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Prevoting: New_barrier_types
On 06/30/2011 05:35 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: How about lane dividers? This is an example below, though where I'm thinking of them they actually divide a couple of lanes for about a km or so - no lane changing allowed at that point. http://www.ingalcivil.com.au/reboundable_lane_divider.html Wouldn't that be a form of bollards in a series? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
