Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard
Ah yes, I temporarily forgot that we have other street view sites! Thank you for that subtle nudge. I pulled up this [1] example at random, which is tagged in the map with hazard=cyclists (on a stretch of way). I assume this means (in this specific case) "cyclists enter the roadway 100m ahead". Next randomly selected example [2] in Poland is a spot where a signed bike lane ends and cyclists begin sharing the road with cars. Now admittedly, 239 usages is a tiny amount of existing usage, but the way I've described it in the proposal seems consistent with how mappers have actually used this tag so far (bike in road hazards). I also recently changed over the example image in the proposal to a MUTCD-style "share the road with bicycles" sign, which is a less ambiguous descriptor than the red-triangle-with-a-bicycle variants. I tend to favor formalizing existing usage rather than inventing new tags, as well as more concise tags instead of verbose ones. If there is a consensus that hazard=cyclists will be misused if approved and documented, we can change it to something invented like hazard=cyclists_in_road. If there isn't a consensus on what to do with this value, I would just drop this particular value from the proposal as a future problem in order to approve the set of tags that we all agree on! [1] https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=49.316661=8.4070676=18=photo=BoYvMnLxXMr0KaUmIDPxhg [2] https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=53.50421582735714=14.477556379223921=17=photo=aaBuvm_A9utc1PYDRyGyXw=0.5085941428184124=0.5962547075134255=0 On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 6:45 PM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 7. Dec 2020, at 00:17, Brian M. Sperlongano > wrote: > > > > The largest existing use of hazard=cyclists is in Germany. There is no > Google StreetView in Germany > > > of course there is > > > > , but from the small number examples [1] I looked at, it seems like this > tag is being used for "cyclists in the road" hazards and not "cyclist > crossings" > > > I have looked it up, and until 2013 the sign was called “crossing > cyclists” while it is now called “cyclists”. It is typically set up before > bicycle crossings or before a separate cycleway merges with the road. > > Cheers Martin > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard
sent from a phone > On 7. Dec 2020, at 00:17, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote: > > The largest existing use of hazard=cyclists is in Germany. There is no > Google StreetView in Germany of course there is > , but from the small number examples [1] I looked at, it seems like this tag > is being used for "cyclists in the road" hazards and not "cyclist crossings" I have looked it up, and until 2013 the sign was called “crossing cyclists” while it is now called “cyclists”. It is typically set up before bicycle crossings or before a separate cycleway merges with the road. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard
The largest existing use of hazard=cyclists is in Germany. There is no
Google StreetView in Germany, but from the small number examples [1] I
looked at, it seems like this tag is being used for "cyclists in the road"
hazards and not "cyclist crossings". There were only 10 usages of the tag
(out of a few hundred) that were combined with highway=crossing. So it
does seem that the way this is being used in actual practice is
hazard=cyclists for "cyclist in the road" hazards and highway=crossing +
bicycle=yes for cyclist crossings. As long as the use of this tag is
properly documented (which I will strive earnestly to ensure), and with
links to the cyclist crossing wiki page, this distinction seems sufficient.
Over 160,000 cyclist crossings have been tagged (highway=crossing +
bicycle=*), and it is well-established tagging, but this is clearly a
different case! In addition to being useful to motorists ("watch out for
bicycles!"), conversely it is also useful to cyclists ("this is a more
dangerous than usual place to ride!").
[1] hazard=cyclists: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/10Vc
On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 5:41 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick
wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 at 04:14, Martin Koppenhoefer
> wrote:
>
>> I cannot remember having seen such signage for places where cyclists are
>> using the road.
>>
>
> Doing it to you again! :-)
>
>
> https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-28.128994,153.4847037,3a,75y,327.54h,51.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSXoyhtDrthUQ45j0cSdQ4g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
>
> Since these images were taken, signage has also been put up warning of
> cyclists on road, in addition to the roadway markings.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
___
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Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 at 04:14, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I cannot remember having seen such signage for places where cyclists are > using the road. > Doing it to you again! :-) https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-28.128994,153.4847037,3a,75y,327.54h,51.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSXoyhtDrthUQ45j0cSdQ4g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en Since these images were taken, signage has also been put up warning of cyclists on road, in addition to the roadway markings. Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard
Am So., 6. Dez. 2020 um 18:34 Uhr schrieb Brian M. Sperlongano < zelonew...@gmail.com>: > The hazard proposal [1] currently proposes hazard=cyclists as a way to tag > a signed area in which motorists should watch for or share the road with > cyclists. Note that this is explicitly different from a cyclist crossing, > which is currently covered by highway=crossing. > in my area the typical situation for a cyclists hazard sign is actually cycleways crossing the street. I cannot remember having seen such signage for places where cyclists are using the road. If we want to distinguish these 2 cases I suggest to use more explicit values like hazard=cyclists_on_the_road and hazard=bicycle_crossing, because hazard=cyclists does not make it clear and would be used in all bicycle related "hazardous" situations. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard
The hazard proposal [1] currently proposes hazard=cyclists as a way to tag a signed area in which motorists should watch for or share the road with cyclists. Note that this is explicitly different from a cyclist crossing, which is currently covered by highway=crossing. It was suggested by a commenter on the talk page that hazard=pedestrian (which has a few hundred usages) should be added as well, to indicate a hazard of pedestrians sharing the road with cars. Is anyone aware of examples of this that are NOT pedestrian *crossings*? The searching I've done for pedestrian hazards all seem to turn up with crosswalk signs, which I feel are out of scope for the hazard= key. [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/hazard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
