Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
perhaps musical_instrument:usage= ? Am 30.04.2018 um 11:22 schrieb Marc Gemis: > Besides the arguments from Martin, > > how do you differentiate the "rental" in a bar, where you can only > play on the instrument, and not take it away from the room/building > from a real rental company that deliver instruments to play somewhere > else ? > >> musical_instrument:sales=* >> musical_instrument:rental=* >> musical_instrument:repair=* >> musical_instrument:parts=* >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmusical_instrument >> >> I case of the bars, >> it could be >> amenity=bar >> musical_instrument:rental=piano >> fee:piao=no @ customers >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
Besides the arguments from Martin, how do you differentiate the "rental" in a bar, where you can only play on the instrument, and not take it away from the room/building from a real rental company that deliver instruments to play somewhere else ? > musical_instrument:sales=* > musical_instrument:rental=* > musical_instrument:repair=* > musical_instrument:parts=* > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmusical_instrument > > I case of the bars, > it could be > amenity=bar > musical_instrument:rental=piano > fee:piao=no @ customers > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
2018-04-29 11:15 GMT+02:00 Thilo Haug OSM : > I case of the bars, > > it could be > amenity=bar > musical_instrument:rental=piano > fee:piao=no @ customers > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee > this seems bad tagging, as "renting" necessarily implies paying a fee, so fee=no would be contradicting with the general meaning of the other tag. On a sidenote, when you use conditional tagging you should use a conditional tagging key, e.g. fee:piano:conditional=no @ customers, and usually you should also tag the default case fee:piano=* Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
- tag one of them as area, position the other as node inside the other 2018-04-30 11:00 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis : > On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:36 AM, José G Moya Y. > wrote: > > I think this is a good idea, but, in the suggestion of Thorsten, I find > > problematic the use of "access=" tag when instruments are in a bar. > Imagine > > a bar with a private piano is tagged as a point: > > > > amenity=bar > > amenity=musical_instrument > > musical_instrument=piano > > access=private > > how can you add to amenities to 1 node without using e.g. a semi-colon ? > so you have > > amenity=bar;musical_instrument > > Semi-colons in tags such as amenity and leisure (and other "main" > tags) will often cause problems with the other tags. The reason is, as > you pointed out, one does not know to which amenity or leisure the > other tags applies. > > There are several solutions possible (depending on the case) > > - tag them as separate points (not a good idea here, as 1 is in the other) > - tag one of them as area, position the other as node inside the other > - another tagging scheme > > regards > > m. > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:36 AM, José G Moya Y. wrote: > I think this is a good idea, but, in the suggestion of Thorsten, I find > problematic the use of "access=" tag when instruments are in a bar. Imagine > a bar with a private piano is tagged as a point: > > amenity=bar > amenity=musical_instrument > musical_instrument=piano > access=private how can you add to amenities to 1 node without using e.g. a semi-colon ? so you have amenity=bar;musical_instrument Semi-colons in tags such as amenity and leisure (and other "main" tags) will often cause problems with the other tags. The reason is, as you pointed out, one does not know to which amenity or leisure the other tags applies. There are several solutions possible (depending on the case) - tag them as separate points (not a good idea here, as 1 is in the other) - tag one of them as area, position the other as node inside the other - another tagging scheme regards m. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
Yes, but how do you know you are tagging the right area? My gps has a error of +-5 metres, more when indoors. And no one goes to a bar at 2 am and starts asking drunk people to go away in order to measure its perimeter. El dom., 29 de abril de 2018 12:02, escribió: > Obviously, you would have to use a separate node inside the area that is > tagged as the bar to tag the piano… > > > > If you want to go into this much detail about what’s inside the bar (or > anything else for that matter), tagging the area and then putting things > inside it is much more manageable then trying to tag everything on a single > node. > > > > In that regards it’s the same as tagging e.g. a café inside a bookshop. > > > > *From:* José G Moya Y. > *Sent:* Sunday, 29 April 2018 18:37 > *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools < > tagging@openstreetmap.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available > musical instruments > > > > I think this is a good idea, but, in the suggestion of Thorsten, I find > problematic the use of "access=" tag when instruments are in a bar. Imagine > a bar with a private piano is tagged as a point: > > > > amenity=bar > > amenity=musical_instrument > > musical_instrument=piano > > access=private > > > > It does not make clear if either access to bar or access to piano is > private. > > > > Also, since bars are amenities, a duplicate "amenity" tag arises. You have > to either put two points or tag the bar as an area. > > > > Yours, > > > > José > > > > > > El dom., 29 de abril de 2018 7:51, > escribió: > > The musical_instrument *key* is generally used to name the specific type > of musical instrument: > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/musical_instrument > > You are correct that it's mostly used in combination with > shop=musical_instrument (a place selling them) or craft=musical_instrument > (a place making them). > > But there are also a (very) few cases tagged as amenity=musical_instrument > (a place where a musical instrument is available for use) and > playground=musical_instrument (similar, but generally a more robust "toy" > instrument aimed at a younger audience). Neither one of which is currently > specifically documented on the wiki, but that shouldn't stop you from using > them. > > So a piano in a bar that is available for people to play on should > probably be tagged: > > amenity=musical_instrument > musical_instrument=piano > access=permissive (or access=customer in some cases) > > Either way, the piano is privately owned and the owner is currently making > it available to other people, but may revoke that permission at will in the > future. > > Cheers, > Thorsten > > P.S. is there a preference on this mailing list for top or bottom posting? > > > -Original Message- > > From: e1k > > Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 15:12 > > To: tagging@openstreetmap.org > > Subject: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available > > musical instruments > > > > Hi, > > > > (first post, plz be gentle!) > > i'd love to see if there can be consensus on the use of the > > 'musical_instrument' tag for publicly available musical instruments. > > a growing number of bars, train stations and or other public places > > have musical instruments around where i live (Amsterdam area), and > > i've started noticing and collecting these places, and would love > > to tag them in openstreetmap. > > use case: as a musician that travels around a bit, i'd love to know > > where i can find a piano or guitar to play on. > > i see the musical_instrument tag is mostly (only?) used for place > > that create and/or sell musical instruments, but i'm wondering what > > the appropriate form of tag would be for a publicly available > > musical instrument. > > (if this has been discussed before, plz point me at it, i coudln't > > find it) > > > > best regards, > > emile > > > > > > --- > > > > All revolutions are impossible until they happen. Then they become > > inevitable -- Albie Sachs > > > > > > > > ___ > > Tagging mailing list > > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
Obviously, you would have to use a separate node inside the area that is tagged as the bar to tag the piano… If you want to go into this much detail about what’s inside the bar (or anything else for that matter), tagging the area and then putting things inside it is much more manageable then trying to tag everything on a single node. In that regards it’s the same as tagging e.g. a café inside a bookshop. From: José G Moya Y. Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 18:37 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments I think this is a good idea, but, in the suggestion of Thorsten, I find problematic the use of "access=" tag when instruments are in a bar. Imagine a bar with a private piano is tagged as a point: amenity=bar amenity=musical_instrument musical_instrument=piano access=private It does not make clear if either access to bar or access to piano is private. Also, since bars are amenities, a duplicate "amenity" tag arises. You have to either put two points or tag the bar as an area. Yours, José El dom., 29 de abril de 2018 7:51, mailto:osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au> > escribió: The musical_instrument *key* is generally used to name the specific type of musical instrument: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/musical_instrument You are correct that it's mostly used in combination with shop=musical_instrument (a place selling them) or craft=musical_instrument (a place making them). But there are also a (very) few cases tagged as amenity=musical_instrument (a place where a musical instrument is available for use) and playground=musical_instrument (similar, but generally a more robust "toy" instrument aimed at a younger audience). Neither one of which is currently specifically documented on the wiki, but that shouldn't stop you from using them. So a piano in a bar that is available for people to play on should probably be tagged: amenity=musical_instrument musical_instrument=piano access=permissive (or access=customer in some cases) Either way, the piano is privately owned and the owner is currently making it available to other people, but may revoke that permission at will in the future. Cheers, Thorsten P.S. is there a preference on this mailing list for top or bottom posting? > -Original Message- > From: e1k mailto:emilea...@protonmail.ch> > > Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 15:12 > To: tagging@openstreetmap.org <mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org> > Subject: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available > musical instruments > > Hi, > > (first post, plz be gentle!) > i'd love to see if there can be consensus on the use of the > 'musical_instrument' tag for publicly available musical instruments. > a growing number of bars, train stations and or other public places > have musical instruments around where i live (Amsterdam area), and > i've started noticing and collecting these places, and would love > to tag them in openstreetmap. > use case: as a musician that travels around a bit, i'd love to know > where i can find a piano or guitar to play on. > i see the musical_instrument tag is mostly (only?) used for place > that create and/or sell musical instruments, but i'm wondering what > the appropriate form of tag would be for a publicly available > musical instrument. > (if this has been discussed before, plz point me at it, i coudln't > find it) > > best regards, > emile > > > --- > > All revolutions are impossible until they happen. Then they become > inevitable -- Albie Sachs > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
Hello all, i think that subtags are necessary for all types of shops but may be the same for every (non-food) type of shop, as all of them usually offer the same (besides sales), so the following may apply : musical_instrument:sales=* musical_instrument:rental=* musical_instrument:repair=* musical_instrument:parts=* https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmusical_instrument I case of the bars, it could be amenity=bar musical_instrument:rental=piano fee:piao=no @ customers https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee So the keys for the shop could also be used for other "main" tags such as amenities. Any standardisation would IMHO ease the tagging of more complex cases. Cheers, Thilo Am 29.04.2018 um 10:36 schrieb José G Moya Y.: > I think this is a good idea, but, in the suggestion of Thorsten, I > find problematic the use of "access=" tag when instruments are in a > bar. Imagine a bar with a private piano is tagged as a point: > > amenity=bar > amenity=musical_instrument > musical_instrument=piano > access=private > > It does not make clear if either access to bar or access to piano is > private. > > Also, since bars are amenities, a duplicate "amenity" tag arises. You > have to either put two points or tag the bar as an area. > > Yours, > > José > > > El dom., 29 de abril de 2018 7:51, <mailto:osm.tagg...@thorsten.engler.id.au>> escribió: > > The musical_instrument *key* is generally used to name the > specific type of musical instrument: > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/musical_instrument > > You are correct that it's mostly used in combination with > shop=musical_instrument (a place selling them) or > craft=musical_instrument (a place making them). > > But there are also a (very) few cases tagged as > amenity=musical_instrument (a place where a musical instrument is > available for use) and playground=musical_instrument (similar, but > generally a more robust "toy" instrument aimed at a younger > audience). Neither one of which is currently specifically > documented on the wiki, but that shouldn't stop you from using them. > > So a piano in a bar that is available for people to play on should > probably be tagged: > > amenity=musical_instrument > musical_instrument=piano > access=permissive (or access=customer in some cases) > > Either way, the piano is privately owned and the owner is > currently making it available to other people, but may revoke that > permission at will in the future. > > Cheers, > Thorsten > > P.S. is there a preference on this mailing list for top or bottom > posting? > > > -Original Message- > > From: e1k mailto:emilea...@protonmail.ch>> > > Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 15:12 > > To: tagging@openstreetmap.org <mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org> > > Subject: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available > > musical instruments > > > > Hi, > > > > (first post, plz be gentle!) > > i'd love to see if there can be consensus on the use of the > > 'musical_instrument' tag for publicly available musical instruments. > > a growing number of bars, train stations and or other public places > > have musical instruments around where i live (Amsterdam area), and > > i've started noticing and collecting these places, and would love > > to tag them in openstreetmap. > > use case: as a musician that travels around a bit, i'd love to know > > where i can find a piano or guitar to play on. > > i see the musical_instrument tag is mostly (only?) used for place > > that create and/or sell musical instruments, but i'm wondering what > > the appropriate form of tag would be for a publicly available > > musical instrument. > > (if this has been discussed before, plz point me at it, i coudln't > > find it) > > > > best regards, > > emile > > > > > > --- > > > > All revolutions are impossible until they happen. Then they become > > inevitable -- Albie Sachs > > > > > > > > ___ > > Tagging mailing list > > Tagging@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
On 29/04/2018 06:12, e1k wrote: ... a growing number of bars, train stations and or other public places have musical instruments around where i live (Amsterdam area), and i've started noticing and collecting these places, and would love to tag them in openstreetmap. use case: as a musician that travels around a bit, i'd love to know where i can find a piano or guitar to play on. i see the musical_instrument tag is mostly (only?) used for place that create and/or sell musical instruments, but i'm wondering what the appropriate form of tag would be for a publicly available musical instrument. There are quite a few "public pianos" tagged already: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=piano 122 of those https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/musical_instrument=piano 56 of those, but those are mostly shops, not playable pianos: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/musical_instrument#combinations There's at least one data consumer of public pianos (someone sent me a message about one I'd mapped once as an "amenity=piano"). Best Regards, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
I think this is a good idea, but, in the suggestion of Thorsten, I find problematic the use of "access=" tag when instruments are in a bar. Imagine a bar with a private piano is tagged as a point: amenity=bar amenity=musical_instrument musical_instrument=piano access=private It does not make clear if either access to bar or access to piano is private. Also, since bars are amenities, a duplicate "amenity" tag arises. You have to either put two points or tag the bar as an area. Yours, José El dom., 29 de abril de 2018 7:51, escribió: > The musical_instrument *key* is generally used to name the specific type > of musical instrument: > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/musical_instrument > > You are correct that it's mostly used in combination with > shop=musical_instrument (a place selling them) or craft=musical_instrument > (a place making them). > > But there are also a (very) few cases tagged as amenity=musical_instrument > (a place where a musical instrument is available for use) and > playground=musical_instrument (similar, but generally a more robust "toy" > instrument aimed at a younger audience). Neither one of which is currently > specifically documented on the wiki, but that shouldn't stop you from using > them. > > So a piano in a bar that is available for people to play on should > probably be tagged: > > amenity=musical_instrument > musical_instrument=piano > access=permissive (or access=customer in some cases) > > Either way, the piano is privately owned and the owner is currently making > it available to other people, but may revoke that permission at will in the > future. > > Cheers, > Thorsten > > P.S. is there a preference on this mailing list for top or bottom posting? > > > -Original Message----- > > From: e1k > > Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 15:12 > > To: tagging@openstreetmap.org > > Subject: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available > > musical instruments > > > > Hi, > > > > (first post, plz be gentle!) > > i'd love to see if there can be consensus on the use of the > > 'musical_instrument' tag for publicly available musical instruments. > > a growing number of bars, train stations and or other public places > > have musical instruments around where i live (Amsterdam area), and > > i've started noticing and collecting these places, and would love > > to tag them in openstreetmap. > > use case: as a musician that travels around a bit, i'd love to know > > where i can find a piano or guitar to play on. > > i see the musical_instrument tag is mostly (only?) used for place > > that create and/or sell musical instruments, but i'm wondering what > > the appropriate form of tag would be for a publicly available > > musical instrument. > > (if this has been discussed before, plz point me at it, i coudln't > > find it) > > > > best regards, > > emile > > > > > > --- > > > > All revolutions are impossible until they happen. Then they become > > inevitable -- Albie Sachs > > > > > > > > ___ > > Tagging mailing list > > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
The musical_instrument *key* is generally used to name the specific type of musical instrument: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/musical_instrument You are correct that it's mostly used in combination with shop=musical_instrument (a place selling them) or craft=musical_instrument (a place making them). But there are also a (very) few cases tagged as amenity=musical_instrument (a place where a musical instrument is available for use) and playground=musical_instrument (similar, but generally a more robust "toy" instrument aimed at a younger audience). Neither one of which is currently specifically documented on the wiki, but that shouldn't stop you from using them. So a piano in a bar that is available for people to play on should probably be tagged: amenity=musical_instrument musical_instrument=piano access=permissive (or access=customer in some cases) Either way, the piano is privately owned and the owner is currently making it available to other people, but may revoke that permission at will in the future. Cheers, Thorsten P.S. is there a preference on this mailing list for top or bottom posting? > -Original Message- > From: e1k > Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2018 15:12 > To: tagging@openstreetmap.org > Subject: [Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available > musical instruments > > Hi, > > (first post, plz be gentle!) > i'd love to see if there can be consensus on the use of the > 'musical_instrument' tag for publicly available musical instruments. > a growing number of bars, train stations and or other public places > have musical instruments around where i live (Amsterdam area), and > i've started noticing and collecting these places, and would love > to tag them in openstreetmap. > use case: as a musician that travels around a bit, i'd love to know > where i can find a piano or guitar to play on. > i see the musical_instrument tag is mostly (only?) used for place > that create and/or sell musical instruments, but i'm wondering what > the appropriate form of tag would be for a publicly available > musical instrument. > (if this has been discussed before, plz point me at it, i coudln't > find it) > > best regards, > emile > > > --- > > All revolutions are impossible until they happen. Then they become > inevitable -- Albie Sachs > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] musical_instrument tag for publicly available musical instruments
Hi, (first post, plz be gentle!) i'd love to see if there can be consensus on the use of the 'musical_instrument' tag for publicly available musical instruments. a growing number of bars, train stations and or other public places have musical instruments around where i live (Amsterdam area), and i've started noticing and collecting these places, and would love to tag them in openstreetmap. use case: as a musician that travels around a bit, i'd love to know where i can find a piano or guitar to play on. i see the musical_instrument tag is mostly (only?) used for place that create and/or sell musical instruments, but i'm wondering what the appropriate form of tag would be for a publicly available musical instrument. (if this has been discussed before, plz point me at it, i coudln't find it) best regards, emile --- All revolutions are impossible until they happen. Then they become inevitable -- Albie Sachs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging