Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Kevin Kenny]

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 3:15 PM Paul Allen  wrote:
> Unsurprisingly, the English "Laboratory" also derives from the Latin.  The 
> Latin, as you stated,
> means a place where one labours or works.  Somehow, in English, it appears 
> only to ever have
> meant a place where one conducts scientific research and experimentation.  I 
> have no idea why
> this is so, none of the dictionaries (on-line and hardcopy) I looked at 
> explain why, and none
> state that it ever meant any more generalized workplace.

It's pretty common to refer to a place that makes prostheses (dental
or orthopedic), one that analyzes medical specimens (histologic,
haematologic, serologic, etc.) one that makes eyeglasses or contact
lenses, one that develops photographic film, and so on as a
'laboratory'. The word does seem to be reserved for what is thought to
be highly technical processes, and one-of-a-kind artifacts (every
medical specimen, orthodontic appliance, prosthesis, optical
appliance, and photograph is unique to a specific patient or
customer).

A goldsmith (or for that matter a blacksmith or tinker), a machinist,,
an auto mechanic, and so on, are much more likely to have the place
where they ply their trades called a 'workshop'. I suspect that both
'laboratory' and 'workshop' would translate to 'laboratorium' in
Latin, and possbly to its cognates in the Romance languages.

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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Paul Allen]

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 19:28, Sergio Manzi  wrote:

> I agree with Volker and I also woul like to underline how in Italian we
> use the sister word "laboratorio" (*both com from the Latin "labor,
> "work"*) for some craftmanship activity: we call a "laboratorio" also the
> places where a goldsmith or an orthodontic mechanic performs their craft,
> and the same for many others. I'm unsure if there is a similar usage in
> English too, but just in case...
>
Unsurprisingly, the English "Laboratory" also derives from the Latin.  The
Latin, as you stated,
means a place where one labours or works.  Somehow, in English, it appears
only to ever have
meant a place where one conducts scientific research and experimentation.
I have no idea why
this is so, none of the dictionaries (on-line and hardcopy) I looked at
explain why, and none
state that it ever meant any more generalized workplace.

In English, though, it would generally be used for small-scale work.  It
might be a very large
laboratory complex, but the amounts of material involved in any particular
experiment are usually
small.  Of course, there are always exceptions, but it's not producing
items or materials for
general sale.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Sergio Manzi]

I agree with Volker and I also woul like to underline how in Italian we use the 
sister word "laboratorio" (/both com from the Latin "labor, "work"/) for some 
craftmanship activity: we call a "laboratorio" also the places where a 
goldsmith or an orthodontic mechanic performs their craft, and the same for 
many others. I'm unsure if there is a similar usage in English too, but just in 
case...

Sergio


On 2019-03-06 15:27, Volker Schmidt wrote:
> My point was only to be aware that we in front of one of many cases where the 
> same English word has many meanings and that may produce the effect of 
> regrouping under one tag with subtags could produce problems.
> "Laboratory" certainly needs a disambiguation page,
>
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 15:15, Kevin Kenny  > wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:51 AM Volker Schmidt  > wrote:
> >
> > ... and then there are big research centres that are called 
> "laboratory". Like LLNL or Los Alamos National Laboratory.
>
> The two near me (GE Global Research Center; Knolls Atomic Power
> Laboratory) I've simply tagged 'landuse=industrial'. Both are mostly
> devoted to the development of industrial processes, from early
> experiments at benchtop scale up to pilot plants. Both have
> occasionally even gone into manufacturing specialty components,
> usually when attempts to build out the process elsewhere encountered
> unexpected difficulties. One is my employer.
>
> Most of the buildings on the GE site are tagged 'building=industrial'.
> (The fire house, the fitness centre, the power plant, the sewage
> treatment facility, and the on-site hotel are tagged as such.)  Most
> of the buildings have both labs and offices and I've not attempted to
> do any indoor mapping to separate the two.
>
> Conditions in the laboratories vary from "experimenters work in shirt
> sleeves" to "experimenters work in space suits".
>
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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Volker Schmidt]

My point was only to be aware that we in front of one of many cases where
the same English word has many meanings and that may produce the effect of
regrouping under one tag with subtags could produce problems.
"Laboratory" certainly needs a disambiguation page,

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 15:15, Kevin Kenny  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:51 AM Volker Schmidt  wrote:
> >
> > ... and then there are big research centres that are called
> "laboratory". Like LLNL or Los Alamos National Laboratory.
>
> The two near me (GE Global Research Center; Knolls Atomic Power
> Laboratory) I've simply tagged 'landuse=industrial'. Both are mostly
> devoted to the development of industrial processes, from early
> experiments at benchtop scale up to pilot plants. Both have
> occasionally even gone into manufacturing specialty components,
> usually when attempts to build out the process elsewhere encountered
> unexpected difficulties. One is my employer.
>
> Most of the buildings on the GE site are tagged 'building=industrial'.
> (The fire house, the fitness centre, the power plant, the sewage
> treatment facility, and the on-site hotel are tagged as such.)  Most
> of the buildings have both labs and offices and I've not attempted to
> do any indoor mapping to separate the two.
>
> Conditions in the laboratories vary from "experimenters work in shirt
> sleeves" to "experimenters work in space suits".
>
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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Kevin Kenny]

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:51 AM Volker Schmidt  wrote:
>
> ... and then there are big research centres that are called "laboratory". 
> Like LLNL or Los Alamos National Laboratory.

The two near me (GE Global Research Center; Knolls Atomic Power
Laboratory) I've simply tagged 'landuse=industrial'. Both are mostly
devoted to the development of industrial processes, from early
experiments at benchtop scale up to pilot plants. Both have
occasionally even gone into manufacturing specialty components,
usually when attempts to build out the process elsewhere encountered
unexpected difficulties. One is my employer.

Most of the buildings on the GE site are tagged 'building=industrial'.
(The fire house, the fitness centre, the power plant, the sewage
treatment facility, and the on-site hotel are tagged as such.)  Most
of the buildings have both labs and offices and I've not attempted to
do any indoor mapping to separate the two.

Conditions in the laboratories vary from "experimenters work in shirt
sleeves" to "experimenters work in space suits".

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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Di., 5. März 2019 um 17:57 Uhr schrieb Jmapb :

> On 3/5/2019 2:48 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote:
>
> > ... and then there are big research centres that are called
> > "laboratory". Like LLNL or Los Alamos National Laboratory.
> >
> These sorts of things I've seen tagged as amenity=research_institute.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=research institute




+1, indeed I thought the discussion here was about individual
"laboratories", not research institutions that carry the word "laboratory"
in their name. Often you can find many laboratories in the same building
complex (because they tend to common requirements, or at least need
"special treatment" compared to office space, so it makes somehow sense to
concentrate them.

I could imagine other "entities" more interesting to tag, because their
category is on a less fine grained level, e.g. a company producing dental
prosthesis, or providing medical analysis, or food analysis, etc.,
regardless of the amount of laboratories they have. The laboratories could
be tagged additionally within them (probably more interesting for example
in the university context, where the information is often publicly
available and important to more different people than in a private context).

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Mark Wagner]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:03:37 +1100
Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 04/03/19 21:25, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> >
> > Am Mo., 4. März 2019 um 09:37 Uhr schrieb Warin
> > <61sundow...@gmail.com >:
> >
> >
> >
> > These can be commercialfirms, part of the government, or part
> > of a university etc.
> >
> > They usually specialise in one field so will need sub tags.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I would question whether we put all kind of "laboratory" into the
> > same category and distinguish them by subtags. There are too many
> > different kind of things that could be subsummized as "laboratory".
> > Think about eletronic laboratories, chemistry research labs,
> > biochemical labs, labs for human healtcare analytics, etc.
> > First distinction could be "research lab" vs. "analytical lab" vs. 
> > maybe more types, and these should IMHO become main tags, not
> > subtags.
> >
> > There is also some potential confusion with the word "laboratory" 
> > being used as a hyped name for workspace where you would not expect 
> > it, e.g. software laboratory, architectural design laboratory, art 
> > laboratory, etc.
> > So we would need some definition, what the criterion for
> > "laboratory" is (or is it the name?).  
> 
> To me a true 'laboratory' has controlled environmental conditions, 
> usually temperature is tightly controlled, the better labs have
> humidity control probably not as tight.
> They may have other things controlled too - such as radio
> interference, dust.

I guess the mechanical-testing laboratory I worked at in college
doesn't count as a "true" laboratory: as long as the temperature within
10 degrees F of 75, we could keep running tests.  That's a far wider
range than you'd normally find in an office environment.

(Other environmental conditions weren't any more tightly controlled.
Aluminum and steel don't really care what you're subjecting them to,
and the measuring instruments we were using were similarly robust.)

-- 
Mark

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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Jmapb]

On 3/5/2019 2:48 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote:

... and then there are big research centres that are called 
"laboratory". Like LLNL or Los Alamos National Laboratory.



These sorts of things I've seen tagged as amenity=research_institute.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=research institute

J


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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Volker Schmidt]

... and then there are big research centres that are called "laboratory".
Like LLNL or Los Alamos National Laboratory.

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019, 06:08 Kevin,  wrote:

> In general at my university we usually talk about "wet labs" vs "dry
> labs", mostly in regards to hazardous materials.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_lab
>
> And for wet labs, there are different levels for biosafety...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:04 PM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 04/03/19 21:25, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am Mo., 4. März 2019 um 09:37 Uhr schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> These can be commercialfirms, part of the government, or part of a
>>> university etc.
>>>
>>> They usually specialise in one field so will need sub tags.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I would question whether we put all kind of "laboratory" into the same
>> category and distinguish them by subtags. There are too many different kind
>> of things that could be subsummized as "laboratory". Think about eletronic
>> laboratories, chemistry research labs, biochemical labs, labs for human
>> healtcare analytics, etc.
>> First distinction could be "research lab" vs. "analytical lab" vs. maybe
>> more types, and these should IMHO become main tags, not subtags.
>>
>> There is also some potential confusion with the word "laboratory" being
>> used as a hyped name for workspace where you would not expect it, e.g.
>> software laboratory, architectural design laboratory, art laboratory, etc.
>> So we would need some definition, what the criterion for "laboratory" is
>> (or is it the name?).
>>
>>
>> To me a true 'laboratory' has controlled environmental conditions,
>> usually temperature is tightly controlled, the better labs have humidity
>> control probably not as tight.
>> They may have other things controlled too - such as radio interference,
>> dust.
>>
>> A software, art or architectural design laboratory would not meet these
>> conditions. The key being that the control is tighter (narrower)
>> environmental control than, say for example, an office environment.
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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Kevin]

In general at my university we usually talk about "wet labs" vs "dry labs",
mostly in regards to hazardous materials.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_lab

And for wet labs, there are different levels for biosafety...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level






On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 10:04 PM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 04/03/19 21:25, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
>
> Am Mo., 4. März 2019 um 09:37 Uhr schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
>
>>
>>
>> These can be commercialfirms, part of the government, or part of a
>> university etc.
>>
>> They usually specialise in one field so will need sub tags.
>
>
>
>
> I would question whether we put all kind of "laboratory" into the same
> category and distinguish them by subtags. There are too many different kind
> of things that could be subsummized as "laboratory". Think about eletronic
> laboratories, chemistry research labs, biochemical labs, labs for human
> healtcare analytics, etc.
> First distinction could be "research lab" vs. "analytical lab" vs. maybe
> more types, and these should IMHO become main tags, not subtags.
>
> There is also some potential confusion with the word "laboratory" being
> used as a hyped name for workspace where you would not expect it, e.g.
> software laboratory, architectural design laboratory, art laboratory, etc.
> So we would need some definition, what the criterion for "laboratory" is
> (or is it the name?).
>
>
> To me a true 'laboratory' has controlled environmental conditions, usually
> temperature is tightly controlled, the better labs have humidity control
> probably not as tight.
> They may have other things controlled too - such as radio interference,
> dust.
>
> A software, art or architectural design laboratory would not meet these
> conditions. The key being that the control is tighter (narrower)
> environmental control than, say for example, an office environment.
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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Warin]

On 04/03/19 21:25, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


Am Mo., 4. März 2019 um 09:37 Uhr schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
>:




These can be commercialfirms, part of the government, or part of a
university etc.

They usually specialise in one field so will need sub tags.




I would question whether we put all kind of "laboratory" into the same 
category and distinguish them by subtags. There are too many different 
kind of things that could be subsummized as "laboratory". Think about 
eletronic laboratories, chemistry research labs, biochemical labs, 
labs for human healtcare analytics, etc.
First distinction could be "research lab" vs. "analytical lab" vs. 
maybe more types, and these should IMHO become main tags, not subtags.


There is also some potential confusion with the word "laboratory" 
being used as a hyped name for workspace where you would not expect 
it, e.g. software laboratory, architectural design laboratory, art 
laboratory, etc.
So we would need some definition, what the criterion for "laboratory" 
is (or is it the name?).


To me a true 'laboratory' has controlled environmental conditions, 
usually temperature is tightly controlled, the better labs have humidity 
control probably not as tight.
They may have other things controlled too - such as radio interference, 
dust.


A software, art or architectural design laboratory would not meet these 
conditions. The key being that the control is tighter (narrower) 
environmental control than, say for example, an office environment.
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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 4. März 2019 um 09:37 Uhr schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

>
>
> These can be commercialfirms, part of the government, or part of a
> university etc.
>
> They usually specialise in one field so will need sub tags.




I would question whether we put all kind of "laboratory" into the same
category and distinguish them by subtags. There are too many different kind
of things that could be subsummized as "laboratory". Think about eletronic
laboratories, chemistry research labs, biochemical labs, labs for human
healtcare analytics, etc.
First distinction could be "research lab" vs. "analytical lab" vs. maybe
more types, and these should IMHO become main tags, not subtags.

There is also some potential confusion with the word "laboratory" being
used as a hyped name for workspace where you would not expect it, e.g.
software laboratory, architectural design laboratory, art laboratory, etc.
So we would need some definition, what the criterion for "laboratory" is
(or is it the name?).

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Mateusz Konieczny]

Mar 4, 2019, 9:35 AM by 61sundow...@gmail.com:

> Hi,
>
> From
>
> https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/62806/how-to-tag-a-research-laboratory
>  
> 
>
> and
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/thevikas/diary/47849 
> 
>
> There appearsto be no information on how to tag a laboratory.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laboratory 
> 
>
> These can be commercialfirms, part of the government, or part of a university 
> etc.
>
>From https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:healthcare%3Dlaboratory 
>
and taginfo https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org//search?q=laboratory 


It seems that there is established method for healthcare laboratories and 
others are so
far without a good tag

There is a laboratory key https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/laboratory 
 used a bit

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[Tagging] tagging laboratories

[Warin]

Hi,

From

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/62806/how-to-tag-a-research-laboratory

and

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/thevikas/diary/47849

There appearsto be no information on how to tag a laboratory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laboratory

These can be commercialfirms, part of the government, or part of a 
university etc.


They usually specialise in one field so will need sub tags.

Discussion?


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