Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 22/02/19 06:40, Tobias Knerr wrote: On 21.02.19 20:15, Andrew Errington wrote: If there is no limit then omit the maxstay tag. No tag, no limit. Personally, I would indeed not set a maxstay tag if there's no limit. However, even if we never want to tag maxstay=unlimited, such a value would

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 21.02.19 20:15, Andrew Errington wrote: > If there is no limit then omit the maxstay tag. No tag, no limit. Personally, I would indeed not set a maxstay tag if there's no limit. However, even if we never want to tag maxstay=unlimited, such a value would still be useful in the context of condit

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

Nope. No tag means not applicable, or not known. Otherwise we'd have to tag every object with every tag (mostly all set to 'no'). Andrew On Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 08:33 Tony Shield No Tag means don't know, any tag value means its been checked and this is > the value. > > TonyS > On 21/02/2019 19:15,

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

No Tag means don't know, any tag value means its been checked and this is the value. TonyS On 21/02/2019 19:15, Andrew Errington wrote: If there is no limit then omit the maxstay tag. No tag, no limit. Andrew On Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 07:47 Tobias Knerr wrote:

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 20.02.19 00:46, Warin wrote: > On default units .. I don't think there's a single unit that would be the obvious default for maxstay, as both minutes and hours will be common. Omitting the unit will lead to misunderstandings in that situation. Therefore, I would define no default, treat missin

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

If there is no limit then omit the maxstay tag. No tag, no limit. Andrew On Fri, Feb 22, 2019, 07:47 Tobias Knerr On 20.02.19 00:08, Warin wrote: > > 24/7 is used for opening hours - so for consistency I would tend to go > > for that. > > Maxstay values are durations, opening_hours values (such

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 20.02.19 00:08, Warin wrote: > 24/7 is used for opening hours - so for consistency I would tend to go > for that. Maxstay values are durations, opening_hours values (such as "24/7") refer to time intervals. Those are separate concepts, so I don't think consistency is called for. If we want an

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 19:15, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > OSM relies on the contributions of many people, most of them are not going to > spend much time learn stuff - particular complicated stuff that they don't > see in their day to day life. > > The complexity of things like the val

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 01:44 Colin Smale Lets be clear, the storage format can (and should) be decoupled from the > display format. What is stored in the database can easily (assuming it is > sufficiently standardised!!!) be translated for human consumption, and the > inverse can be done when stori

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

OSM relies on the contributions of many people, most of them are not going to spend much time learn stuff - particular complicated stuff that they don't see in their day to day life. The complexity of things like the values of 'opening hours' mean it does not get used by many. OSM should try

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

OSM is the underlying data, not any particular rendering thereof. The general public are therefore not our target audience; that is composed of data consumers, including renderers of course. AIUI the above represents how we react to complaints about the "standard rendering" on the website. Why

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

This is easy to answer: "We want to make the best map data set of the world" Sergio On 2019-02-20 23:11, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Is OSM supposed to be for a tight, dedicated group of expert mappers trying > to create the best, most accurate, technically-perfect map the World has ever

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 17:11, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Is OSM supposed to be for a tight, dedicated group of expert mappers trying > to create the best, most accurate, technically-perfect map the World has ever > seen; or is it for the use of John Doe & Jane Public using OSMAND & Maps Me > o

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 22:12, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Is OSM supposed to be for a tight, dedicated group of expert mappers > trying to create the best, most accurate, technically-perfect map the World > has ever seen; or is it for the use of John Doe & Jane Public using OSMAND > & Maps Me o

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 22:31, Paul Allen wrote: > On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 12:08, marc marc wrote: > >> Le 20.02.19 à 12:39, Colin Smale a écrit : >> > "T2H" could be enough. What's the minimum IQ required to understand >> > "T2H", "T30M" or "5D"? >> >> ask other mapper how to tag "2 hours" in the

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Thu, 21 Feb 2019 at 04:35, OSMDoudou < 19b350d2-b1b3-4edb-ad96-288ea1238...@gmx.com> wrote: > > I think any discussion of dates and times should start by asking if we > could apply ISO8601 to the problem at hand. For example the other thread > about start date variants. > > By the way, ISO 8601

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

> I think any discussion of dates and times should start by asking if we could > apply ISO8601 to the problem at hand. For example the other thread about > start date variants. By the way, ISO 8601 is already in use at places: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?search=ISO+8601&title=Spe

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

Maybe not a such bad idea, after all, but probably unfeasible. Ever since technology has given us powerfull but potentially dangerous tools (/steam engine, cars, firearms, electricity, the radio, surgery, drugs, airplanes, etc, etc.../) society, conscious of the dangers associate to such tools,

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 2019-02-20 14:23, Paul Allen wrote: > On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 12:59, Sergio Manzi wrote: > >> Perfect! >> >> NIH syndrome [1] anybody? >> >> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here > > More like "Somebody has already invented the hammer so there's no need for > that new > scr

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 07:55, Paul Allen wrote: > You are living in an ideal world that does not exist. Go to the standard > carto. Use the query tool. > All the translation mechanisms you posit do not exist. Hey, wait a second. Most people around where I live wouldn't understand why smaller s

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 12:59, Sergio Manzi wrote: > Perfect! > > NIH syndrome [1] anybody? > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here > More like "Somebody has already invented the hammer so there's no need for that new screwdriver thing, just hammer the screws in." Fitness for pur

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

Perfect! NIH syndrome [1] anybody? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here On 2019-02-20 13:42, Colin Smale wrote: > Lets be clear, the storage format can (and should) be decoupled from the > display format. What is stored in the database can easily (assuming it is > sufficiently

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Wed, 20 Feb 2019 at 12:44, Colin Smale wrote: Even in this case, we should take the trouble to define the syntax for a > duration, in such a way that the definition is reusable and extensible. > Should it be 2.5 hours, or should it be 2 hours 30 minutes? Using only > fractional hours will be p

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

And so? I'm also quite sure that less than 1% of mappers will spontaneously encode opening_hours=* according to what we prescribe in the wiki [1], but nonethelss that's what we expect they should do. What's your point? Sergio [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours On 2019-0

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

Le 20.02.19 à 12:39, Colin Smale a écrit : > "T2H" could be enough. What's the minimum IQ required to understand > "T2H", "T30M" or "5D"? ask other mapper how to tag "2 hours" in the iso form. I doubt that 1% 'll reply "T2H" without first reading the doc. it not only the IQ, it's also the use of

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 2019-02-20 12:10, marc marc wrote: > Le 20.02.19 à 11:40, Colin Smale a écrit : > >> so allergic to the idea of leveraging (how I hate that word...) existing >> standards > > I wonder if it will soon be necessary to do an IQ test to contribute > to osm. > if a app says "encode the duration

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

Le 20.02.19 à 11:40, Colin Smale a écrit : > so allergic to the idea of leveraging (how I hate that word...) existing > standards I wonder if it will soon be necessary to do an IQ test to contribute to osm. if a app says "encode the duration in ISO_8601 format", I wonder if 1% of contributors ar

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

+10e99 To be honest I have never really understood why OSM seems so allergic to the idea of leveraging (how I hate that word...) existing standards. I can only guess that anything that smells of formal ontologies is thought to limit or restrict the creative freedom of mappers to invent new values

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

+1 this! On 2019-02-20 01:45, Andrew Errington wrote: > Already handled by ISO8601: > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Durations > > I think any discussion of dates and times should start by asking if we could > apply ISO8601 to the problem at hand. For example the other thread about >

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

Already handled by ISO8601: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Durations I think any discussion of dates and times should start by asking if we could apply ISO8601 to the problem at hand. For example the other thread about start date variants. Andrew On Wed, Feb 20, 2019, 12:48 Warin <61

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 20/02/19 10:32, Paul Allen wrote: On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 23:16, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > wrote: On 19/02/19 22:03, Paul Allen wrote: On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 03:48, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > wrote: Not

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 23:16, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 19/02/19 22:03, Paul Allen wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 03:48, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Nothing I could see on the wiki for this. So some guidance would be good. >> >> Units. >> > > I added a maxstay a fe

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 19/02/19 22:03, Paul Allen wrote: On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 03:48, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > wrote: Nothing I could see on the wiki for this. So some guidance would be good. Units. I added a maxstay a few weeks ago and I found info about units a

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On 19/02/19 22:11, marc marc wrote: Le 19.02.19 à 04:47, Warin a écrit : For infinite maximum stay time; 24/7? unlimilted - ? no_limit? the first not-numérical value is "no" https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/maxstay=no that look like good (no maxstay = unlimited) I dislike 0 : not allowed

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

Le 19.02.19 à 04:47, Warin a écrit : > For infinite maximum stay time; > 24/7? > unlimilted - ? > no_limit? the first not-numérical value is "no" https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/maxstay=no that look like good (no maxstay = unlimited) I dislike 0 : not allowed to stay at all or unlimited ?)

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 03:48, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > Nothing I could see on the wiki for this. So some guidance would be good. > > Units. > I added a maxstay a few weeks ago and I found info about units at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxstay Units are not explicitly d

Re: [Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 13:48, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > Units. > > On tag info there are values with no units... they could be hours, > minute or days. > > I would suggest the default unit of hours. > > Abbreviations? > > h for hours > > m for minutes > > mos for months > d for days

[Tagging] units and notations for maxstay

Nothing I could see on the wiki for this. So some guidance would be good. Units. On tag info there are values with no units... they could be hours, minute or days. I would suggest the default unit of hours. Abbreviations? h for hours m for minutes mos for months Notations? For infinite