Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
The cistern is the storage tank. If there is access to the cistern water, that would be some form of water tap and should be separately tagged. Similarly a deluge shower and it's cistern or holding tank are probably better mapped as two objects. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
2015-02-03 20:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org: It seems like an above-ground tank would be more prone to freezing, not less. I have lived in two houses that had cisterns, although neither one was still in use. In this climate, yes, actually in all climates. What is varying is the depth you have to go to to avoid freezing in winter, or if it's permafrost you don't have to care because it will be always frozen anyway ;-) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On 5/02/2015 11:12 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2015-02-03 20:33 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org: It seems like an above-ground tank would be more prone to freezing, not less. I have lived in two houses that had cisterns, although neither one was still in use. In this climate, yes, actually in all climates. What is varying is the depth you have to go to to avoid freezing in winter, or if it's permafrost you don't have to care because it will be always frozen anyway ;-) Here you dig down to get out of the heat. And the depth, as you say, varies as does the stable temperature. The depth variation is probably due to the soil/moisture variation. One book I've read says that there is a phase variation - if you pick the right depth you can have warmer in winter and cooler in summer. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On February 3, 2015 3:05:53 AM CST, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Feb 2, 2015 3:11 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:54 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. I've also seen them on the coast of Alaska in above ground tanks to catch rain water. Above ground is common in the midwest for various reasons (freezing, contamination, maintenance, excavation of solid rock) that often arise. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging It seems like an above-ground tank would be more prone to freezing, not less. I have lived in two houses that had cisterns, although neither one was still in use. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Feb 2, 2015 3:11 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:54 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. I've also seen them on the coast of Alaska in above ground tanks to catch rain water. Above ground is common in the midwest for various reasons (freezing, contamination, maintenance, excavation of solid rock) that often arise. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 9:35 AM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: On February 3, 2015 3:05:53 AM CST, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Feb 2, 2015 3:11 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:54 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. I've also seen them on the coast of Alaska in above ground tanks to catch rain water. Above ground is common in the midwest for various reasons (freezing, contamination, maintenance, excavation of solid rock) that often arise. -- Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging It seems like an above-ground tank would be more prone to freezing, not less. I have lived in two houses that had cisterns, although neither one was still in use. In this climate, yes, but at least you know about it in, say, January, and can hit Southern Ag for a suitable replacement before it thaws, and don't find out about it the hard way in, say, September during the hottest, driest part of the year, with pretty much the only alternatives being buying a water cooler and buying bottled water by the 5-gallon vat for a few months or buying another cistern and a (few?) hundred gallons to refill it with... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On 3/02/2015 8:10 AM, Clifford Snow wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:54 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com mailto:j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. I've also seen them on the coast of Alaska in above ground tanks to catch rain water. In Australia rain water collection is common, or more correctly essential, in country areas. They are usually placed on the ground, or on a platform. Less frequently they are on elevated platforms or underground. Frequently they are simply called 'rain water tanks' or 'water tanks'. Cistern would be very rarely used, if ever, for these kind of tanks. In remote areas each building will have at least one tank, some the the tanks are quite large. Probable tag http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/storage_tank ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:54 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. I've also seen them on the coast of Alaska in above ground tanks to catch rain water. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: In Australia rain water collection is common, or more correctly essential, in country areas. They are usually placed on the ground, or on a platform. Less frequently they are on elevated platforms or underground. Frequently they are simply called 'rain water tanks' or 'water tanks'. Cistern would be very rarely used, if ever, for these kind of tanks. In remote areas each building will have at least one tank, some the the tanks are quite large. Probable tag http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/storage_tank Since we default to British English, I wonder what the Brits call these tanks? -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Feb 2, 2015, at 4:58 PM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:16 PM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote: Speaking of cisterns, Does this notion of cistern are reservoirs cover fire cisterns? I think in this case you could use emergency=water_tank [1] Sweet - that is exactly what I was thinking of - I'm surprised I missed it. Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On February 1, 2015 3:21:44 AM CST, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/01/2015 10:49 AM, S Volk wrote: Hi, I've been mapping on Africa in HOT tasks and around, I've seen some cisterns, also know that some humanitarian NGOs have made many cisterns on Africa (also water_wells). Question: How to tag a cistern (it seems to be not like what is shown for landuse=reservoir; rather a small man made reservoir, on ground level or escavated, for either natural or treated water)? Or, in addition, since there are tags for man_made=water_well, man_made=water_tower, wouldn't it be worth to have a tag like man_made=cistern? Thank you in advance, regards, Sérgio (user:SergioAJV) svo...@hotmail.com A 'cistern' has a mechanism for keeping a water level stable, commonly used in toilets. And OSM has no tag for that feature (yet). They are connected to a water supply with some pressure behind it. I'd think you want to map the provision of water? If it is 'drinkable' then the generic amenity=drinking_water would suit? If non potable then amenity=watering_place ? If you don't know if it is drinkable then assume not, so use amenity=watering_place ? Maybe add a note ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging Once again, we are divided by a common language. In American usage, a cistern is a holding tank for captured rain water, used as an alternative to a well in areas where no city water supply is available. They often take the form of an underground pit with a waterproof lining. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:16 PM, John Willis jo...@mac.com wrote: Speaking of cisterns, Does this notion of cistern are reservoirs cover fire cisterns? I think in this case you could use emergency=water_tank [1] regards m [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dwater_tank ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
The Wikipedia defintion of cistern is much wider than the toilet cistern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cistern On 1 February 2015 at 10:21, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/01/2015 10:49 AM, S Volk wrote: Hi, I've been mapping on Africa in HOT tasks and around, I've seen some cisterns, also know that some humanitarian NGOs have made many cisterns on Africa (also water_wells). Question: How to tag a cistern (it seems to be not like what is shown for landuse=reservoir; rather a small man made reservoir, on ground level or escavated, for either natural or treated water)? Or, in addition, since there are tags for man_made=water_well, man_made=water_tower, wouldn't it be worth to have a tag like man_made=cistern? Thank you in advance, regards, Sérgio (user:SergioAJV) svo...@hotmail.com A 'cistern' has a mechanism for keeping a water level stable, commonly used in toilets. And OSM has no tag for that feature (yet). They are connected to a water supply with some pressure behind it. I'd think you want to map the provision of water? If it is 'drinkable' then the generic amenity=drinking_water would suit? If non potable then amenity=watering_place ? If you don't know if it is drinkable then assume not, so use amenity=watering_place ? Maybe add a note ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
cistern in English implies underground or covered. You want something like man_made=water_tank (unfortunately often used as firw-water tank) or man_made=storage storage=water On 31 January 2015 at 00:49, S Volk svo...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, I've been mapping on Africa in HOT tasks and around, I've seen some cisterns, also know that some humanitarian NGOs have made many cisterns on Africa (also water_wells). Question: How to tag a cistern (it seems to be not like what is shown for landuse=reservoir; rather a small man made reservoir, on ground level or escavated, for either natural or treated water)? Or, in addition, since there are tags for man_made=water_well, man_made= water_tower, wouldn't it be worth to have a tag like man_made=cistern? Thank you in advance, regards, Sérgio (user:SergioAJV) svo...@hotmail.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On 1/02/2015 8:31 PM, Volker Schmidt wrote: cistern in English implies underground or covered. You want something like man_made=water_tank (unfortunately often used as fish?-water tank) or man_made=storage storage=water On 31 January 2015 at 00:49, S Volk svo...@hotmail.com mailto:svo...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, I've been mapping on Africa in HOT tasks and around, I've seen some cisterns, also know that some humanitarian NGOs have made many cisterns on Africa (also water_wells). Question: How to tag a cistern (it seems to be not like what is shown for landuse=reservoir; rather a small man made reservoir, on ground level or escavated, for either natural or treated water)? I don't see any limits for 'landuse=reservoir' ? So it could be used from small to large. And if that is the 'best fit' then use it. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On 31/01/2015 10:49 AM, S Volk wrote: Hi, I've been mapping on Africa in HOT tasks and around, I've seen some cisterns, also know that some humanitarian NGOs have made many cisterns on Africa (also water_wells). Question: How to tag a cistern (it seems to be not like what is shown for landuse=reservoir; rather a small man made reservoir, on ground level or escavated, for either natural or treated water)? Or, in addition, since there are tags for man_made=water_well, man_made=water_tower, wouldn't it be worth to have a tag like man_made=cistern? Thank you in advance, regards, Sérgio (user:SergioAJV) svo...@hotmail.com A 'cistern' has a mechanism for keeping a water level stable, commonly used in toilets. And OSM has no tag for that feature (yet). They are connected to a water supply with some pressure behind it. I'd think you want to map the provision of water? If it is 'drinkable' then the generic amenity=drinking_water would suit? If non potable then amenity=watering_place ? If you don't know if it is drinkable then assume not, so use amenity=watering_place ? Maybe add a note ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
amenity =drinking_water sounds right for the drinkable water, I wouldn't use tank, rather also add a man_made=cistern for the kind of object cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
My error on the 'cistern'.. or rather limiting the application. I'm thinking of the 'ballcock' ... not a plumber. On 1/02/2015 8:33 PM, Volker Schmidt wrote: The Wikipedia defintion of cistern is much wider than the toilet cistern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cistern On 1 February 2015 at 10:21, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com mailto:61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/01/2015 10:49 AM, S Volk wrote: Hi, I've been mapping on Africa in HOT tasks and around, I've seen some cisterns, also know that some humanitarian NGOs have made many cisterns on Africa (also water_wells). Question: How to tag a cistern (it seems to be not like what is shown for landuse=reservoir; rather a small man made reservoir, on ground level or escavated, for either natural or treated water)? Or, in addition, since there are tags for man_made=water_well, man_made=water_tower, wouldn't it be worth to have a tag like man_made=cistern? Thank you in advance, regards, Sérgio (user:SergioAJV) svo...@hotmail.com mailto:svo...@hotmail.com A 'cistern' has a mechanism for keeping a water level stable, commonly used in toilets. And OSM has no tag for that feature (yet). They are connected to a water supply with some pressure behind it. I'd think you want to map the provision of water? If it is 'drinkable' then the generic amenity=drinking_water would suit? If non potable then amenity=watering_place ? If you don't know if it is drinkable then assume not, so use amenity=watering_place ? Maybe add a note ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
Speaking of cisterns, Does this notion of cistern are reservoirs cover fire cisterns? In most urban and suburban areas of Japan, there are underground hydrants, but there are a lot of fire cisterns as well out here in rural Japan. The fire trucks carry a snorkel. I assume this is an old system (some look 50 years old), but there are tons of them - is there a fire hydrant-esque version? We're talking 2-3m concrete boxes with fireman only access through a manhole lid for the snorkel. The concrete boxes are often above ground and in bothersome positions (right next to the road), and labeled as a fire cistern on their road sign, as opposed to hydrant. I looked up the emergency=fire hydrant, and the page mentioned pond, but there is still some kind of hydrant that is there as an attachment for the hose, whereas the cistern is merely a box with a lid. Maybe adding a value to: fire_hydrant:type:cistern And fire_hydrant:water_source=cistern would be appropriate, so they are included in the hydrant system (as opposed to reservoir), where they seem to belong - or is this the case where it would get both tags? Interested in how you'd tag it to be part of the hydrant system. Javbw On Feb 1, 2015, at 6:51 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 1/02/2015 8:31 PM, Volker Schmidt wrote: cistern in English implies underground or covered. You want something like man_made=water_tank (unfortunately often used as fish?-water tank) or man_made=storage storage=water On 31 January 2015 at 00:49, S Volk svo...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, I've been mapping on Africa in HOT tasks and around, I've seen some cisterns, also know that some humanitarian NGOs have made many cisterns on Africa (also water_wells). Question: How to tag a cistern (it seems to be not like what is shown for landuse=reservoir; rather a small man made reservoir, on ground level or escavated, for either natural or treated water)? I don't see any limits for 'landuse=reservoir' ? So it could be used from small to large. And if that is the 'best fit' then use it. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] How to tag a cistern?
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 3:31 AM, Volker Schmidt vosc...@gmail.com wrote: cistern in English implies underground or covered. You want something like man_made=water_tank (unfortunately often used as firw-water tank) or man_made=storage storage=water I realize there's a bit of a bikeshedding factor, but at least regionally, homesteaders (still surprisingly common here!) refer to a large, above-ground tank used to store drinking water as a cistern. Usually placed immediately adjacent to the building it serves and is fed by the rain gutters from said structure. Usually some kind of plastic, and in the 1500-3000 gallon range. Also, most likely the toilets in the same building are of the RV variety to conserve water, and therefore are highly unlikely to have a cistern. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
