Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
sent from a phone > Il giorno 7 feb 2020, alle ore 10:19, Lionel Giard > ha scritto: > > But creating a new relation type which would be with the same specification > than a site relation would be a bit weird to me. we’ve done this for boundary relations too, which are essentially multipolygons plus admin centre roles. If a new relationtype has similar or the same workings but different semantics, it would be a oneliner for data consumers to add support-if they wish. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Feb 6, 2020, 10:14 by lionel.gi...@gmail.com: > One problem with multipolygon relation is that by definition you can't put > > node > it those and you can't put > contiguous buildings> either > Nodes are a problem. Contiguous buildings are solvable, but it requires turning buildings into multipolygons. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Thanks for all comments! For now I created https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Duniversity#Complex_areas to document complexity discovered during this discussion. This way we can avoid remaking entire discussion next time and problem is at least documented. Feb 6, 2020, 11:34 by vosc...@gmail.com: > Sorry, Martin, but what do you do, if you have a big multi-storey building > and all you have is the door bell on the street level? Not map it? > The Tuebingen example illustrates the problem. The relation has two nodes in > a multipolygon as outer? That is not kosher either. > Volker > > On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:21, Martin Koppenhoefer <> dieterdre...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> >> >> Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 11:01 Uhr schrieb Volker Schmidt <>> >> vosc...@gmail.com>> >: >> >>> Padua, Italy, where I live, has a big university spread all over the place. >>> This includes smaller sections being in apartments in buildings that are >>> mainly used residentially. >>> >> >> >> yes, I am also well familiar with universities spread over many different >> buildings (or sometimes just a floor of a building although I have not yet >> seen an apartment used (for what? Office? lecture room? Probably not as a >> lecture hall, would not be suitable)). >> >> Common way to map this (unfortunately) is amenity=university on all parts, >> e.g. >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25074981 >> >> Here's an example of a (not yet complete and in some parts overcomplete) >> multipolygon for the Universität Tübingen: >> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8639592 >> (curiously, there are also node members ;-) ). >> >> >> >>> >>> With other words "pieces" of the University come in all sizes and shapes, >>> from what would be a typical campus to single apartments, where the >>> "location" is the building entrance where the university institution is >>> only one of many door bells. >>> And I know that this is true of other universities and research >>> establishments. >>> This situation made me think of (mis-)using the site relation for tagging. >>> >>> >> >> >> yes, but if we keep the small places like the apartment as nodes, it will >> not be possible to see that they are small, because a node can be any kind >> of size. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 10:19, Lionel Giard wrote: > The site relation was originally created for groups of features : power > plant (wind turbine nodes spread over the land or sea), historical sites > (often only some element (one tower, one building, ...) are historic and > not the entire place) and parking (especially underground parking with only > entrance mapped) spread over multiple locations. It fit exactly what is an > university spread over a city or multiple places. The word "site" may be > wrong, but that was the one chosen there and could be changed i suppose (i > don't care for the word used myself ^_^). But creating a new relation type > which would be with the same specification than a site relation would be a > bit weird to me. It is overly complex for the usage no ? As the only > interest is to have one feature in OSM that group all the university part > and get all the university attribute. Is that really important that it is > called "site" instead of "institution" ? :p > > In any case, it would be interesting to define it correctly in the wiki so > other mappers can find a "how to map" (either on site relation or a new > relation if more people are in favour for that). :-) > I support this opinion. Additional use cases, beyond university and research organisations: city administrations - we have here a number of decentralised admin offices that use part of commercial buildings (no way to draw a polygon arund them. All my examples are based on real local situations. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
The site relation was originally created for groups of features : power plant (wind turbine nodes spread over the land or sea), historical sites (often only some element (one tower, one building, ...) are historic and not the entire place) and parking (especially underground parking with only entrance mapped) spread over multiple locations. It fit exactly what is an university spread over a city or multiple places. The word "site" may be wrong, but that was the one chosen there and could be changed i suppose (i don't care for the word used myself ^_^). But creating a new relation type which would be with the same specification than a site relation would be a bit weird to me. It is overly complex for the usage no ? As the only interest is to have one feature in OSM that group all the university part and get all the university attribute. Is that really important that it is called "site" instead of "institution" ? :p In any case, it would be interesting to define it correctly in the wiki so other mappers can find a "how to map" (either on site relation or a new relation if more people are in favour for that). :-) Le jeu. 6 févr. 2020 à 12:13, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > > > sent from a phone > > > Il giorno 6 feb 2020, alle ore 11:37, Volker Schmidt > ha scritto: > > > > Sorry, Martin, but what do you do, if you have a big multi-storey > building and all you have is the door bell on the street level? Not map it? > > > that’s indeed a problem with multipolygons ;) > But you wouldn’t call something a „site“ either that is, hm, many sites, > would you? > > > > > The Tuebingen example illustrates the problem. The relation has two > nodes in a multipolygon as outer? That is not kosher either. > > > Yes, the Tübingen example is far from perfect, it was just an illustration > for a university with many locations, but there are many details that are > not kosher (e.g. the streets are not part of the campus, at least the > unrestricted, public ones, also the nurse residences could be questioned, > while the library arguably consists also of the grounds, not just the > building, etc.) > > Do we need another kind of relation? If we want an object for the > university, maybe yes. Adding just a tag like university= the university> on all the parts would maybe do the trick as well? It > wouldn’t allow for adding details about the university though (e.g. > start_date, alt_name, wikipedia/wikidata, website, operator, etc.). > > Either we could say, a university in or around the same town, seen on a > global level, is still a “site”, although on the local level it would be > seen as several sites. > Or we’d make a more generic kind of new relation for things that belong > together under a certain point of view (together they form an institution, > for example public city offices also belong to the same institution and are > often distributed over the city, or on a national level ministries and > agencies, there we’re doing it with admin level. For pt routes, there are > specific route master and network relations. > Time for an university relation? Or more generically a “type=institution” > relation? > > Cheers Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
sent from a phone > Il giorno 6 feb 2020, alle ore 11:37, Volker Schmidt ha > scritto: > > Sorry, Martin, but what do you do, if you have a big multi-storey building > and all you have is the door bell on the street level? Not map it? that’s indeed a problem with multipolygons ;) But you wouldn’t call something a „site“ either that is, hm, many sites, would you? > The Tuebingen example illustrates the problem. The relation has two nodes in > a multipolygon as outer? That is not kosher either. Yes, the Tübingen example is far from perfect, it was just an illustration for a university with many locations, but there are many details that are not kosher (e.g. the streets are not part of the campus, at least the unrestricted, public ones, also the nurse residences could be questioned, while the library arguably consists also of the grounds, not just the building, etc.) Do we need another kind of relation? If we want an object for the university, maybe yes. Adding just a tag like university= on all the parts would maybe do the trick as well? It wouldn’t allow for adding details about the university though (e.g. start_date, alt_name, wikipedia/wikidata, website, operator, etc.). Either we could say, a university in or around the same town, seen on a global level, is still a “site”, although on the local level it would be seen as several sites. Or we’d make a more generic kind of new relation for things that belong together under a certain point of view (together they form an institution, for example public city offices also belong to the same institution and are often distributed over the city, or on a national level ministries and agencies, there we’re doing it with admin level. For pt routes, there are specific route master and network relations. Time for an university relation? Or more generically a “type=institution” relation? Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Sorry, Martin, but what do you do, if you have a big multi-storey building and all you have is the door bell on the street level? Not map it? The Tuebingen example illustrates the problem. The relation has two nodes in a multipolygon as outer? That is not kosher either. Volker On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:21, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 11:01 Uhr schrieb Volker Schmidt < > vosc...@gmail.com>: > >> Padua, Italy, where I live, has a big university spread all over the >> place. This includes smaller sections being in apartments in buildings that >> are mainly used residentially. >> > > > yes, I am also well familiar with universities spread over many different > buildings (or sometimes just a floor of a building although I have not yet > seen an apartment used (for what? Office? lecture room? Probably not as a > lecture hall, would not be suitable)). > > Common way to map this (unfortunately) is amenity=university on all parts, > e.g. > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25074981 > > Here's an example of a (not yet complete and in some parts overcomplete) > multipolygon for the Universität Tübingen: > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8639592 > (curiously, there are also node members ;-) ). > > > >> With other words "pieces" of the University come in all sizes and shapes, >> from what would be a typical campus to single apartments, where the >> "location" is the building entrance where the university institution is >> only one of many door bells. >> And I know that this is true of other universities and research >> establishments. >> This situation made me think of (mis-)using the site relation for tagging. >> >> > > yes, but if we keep the small places like the apartment as nodes, it will > not be possible to see that they are small, because a node can be any kind > of size. > > > Cheers, > Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 11:01 Uhr schrieb Volker Schmidt : > Padua, Italy, where I live, has a big university spread all over the > place. This includes smaller sections being in apartments in buildings that > are mainly used residentially. > yes, I am also well familiar with universities spread over many different buildings (or sometimes just a floor of a building although I have not yet seen an apartment used (for what? Office? lecture room? Probably not as a lecture hall, would not be suitable)). Common way to map this (unfortunately) is amenity=university on all parts, e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25074981 Here's an example of a (not yet complete and in some parts overcomplete) multipolygon for the Universität Tübingen: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8639592 (curiously, there are also node members ;-) ). > With other words "pieces" of the University come in all sizes and shapes, > from what would be a typical campus to single apartments, where the > "location" is the building entrance where the university institution is > only one of many door bells. > And I know that this is true of other universities and research > establishments. > This situation made me think of (mis-)using the site relation for tagging. > > yes, but if we keep the small places like the apartment as nodes, it will not be possible to see that they are small, because a node can be any kind of size. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 10:01, Volker Schmidt wrote: > Padua, Italy, where I live, has a big university spread all over the > place. This includes smaller sections being in apartments in buildings that > are mainly used residentially. > This is the case with the University of Edinburgh. Well, it was 20 years ago. It probably still is the case. It's definitely scattered all over Edinburgh: https://www.ed.ac.uk/maps/maps Many of those are dedicated buildings but some may still be a room or two in a building that has other tenants/uses. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Padua, Italy, where I live, has a big university spread all over the place. This includes smaller sections being in apartments in buildings that are mainly used residentially. With other words "pieces" of the University come in all sizes and shapes, from what would be a typical campus to single apartments, where the "location" is the building entrance where the university institution is only one of many door bells. And I know that this is true of other universities and research establishments. This situation made me think of (mis-)using the site relation for tagging. On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 10:16, Lionel Giard wrote: > One problem with multipolygon relation is that by definition you can't put > *node > *it those and you can't put *contiguous buildings* either. How do you > group "node + polygons + multipolygon" (some buildings are a multipolygon > already where the hole is not part of the university ^_^) with other thing > than a site relation ? If you have any suggestion feel free to share as i > never find anything else (and we already discussed it in the past on this > mailing list, always to say "okay it is the best fit for the time being"). > :-) > > You can't put big polygon around these things either, as many of these > "city university" don't own the ground around the building (they are really > in the middle of the city spread across it) and as you said, many parts are > only an "office" in a building shared with other companies or services (so > only nodes in OSM). > > Le jeu. 6 févr. 2020 à 02:58, Joseph Eisenberg > a écrit : > >> > ... put the tag "amenity=university" and all the information only 1 >> time for the whole university >> >> > I would generally just use a multipolygon relation for this >> >> +1 for the common multipolygon relation, not type=site. >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 10:16 Uhr schrieb Lionel Giard < lionel.gi...@gmail.com>: > One problem with multipolygon relation is that by definition you can't put > *node > *it those and you can't put *contiguous buildings* either. How do you > group "node + polygons + multipolygon" (some buildings are a multipolygon > already where the hole is not part of the university ^_^) with other thing > than a site relation ? > It would likely be wrong to cut the hole of a building out from a faculty. You would not add the multipolygon relation to the faculty (if there really is just a building a no grounds around it to add), but the outer way(s) that form the building. For buildings and grounds and even for building parts that are currently mapped as nodes, it doesn't seem disproportionate to ask for mapping as a polygon before they can added to a faculty or department, or do you have any examples for things that shall make up a university subpart which are better represented as nodes? Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
One problem with multipolygon relation is that by definition you can't put *node *it those and you can't put *contiguous buildings* either. How do you group "node + polygons + multipolygon" (some buildings are a multipolygon already where the hole is not part of the university ^_^) with other thing than a site relation ? If you have any suggestion feel free to share as i never find anything else (and we already discussed it in the past on this mailing list, always to say "okay it is the best fit for the time being"). :-) You can't put big polygon around these things either, as many of these "city university" don't own the ground around the building (they are really in the middle of the city spread across it) and as you said, many parts are only an "office" in a building shared with other companies or services (so only nodes in OSM). Le jeu. 6 févr. 2020 à 02:58, Joseph Eisenberg a écrit : > > ... put the tag "amenity=university" and all the information only 1 time > for the whole university > > > I would generally just use a multipolygon relation for this > > +1 for the common multipolygon relation, not type=site. > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
> ... put the tag "amenity=university" and all the information only 1 time for > the whole university > I would generally just use a multipolygon relation for this +1 for the common multipolygon relation, not type=site. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On 2/5/2020 6:21 PM, Lionel Giard wrote: Site relation are more used to put the tag "amenity=university" and all the information only 1 time for the whole university when it is spread across a city or multiple sites. This site relation equal to the amenity=university area under a campus that's all grouped into one place. Otherwise, if you query the data, you'll see many amenity=university (which means multiple universities) that are exactly the same which is wrong. I would generally just use a multipolygon relation for this. Any contiguous portions of university campus are mapped as closed ways with role "outer." Any isolated university buildings are also added to the relation with role "outer". All the top-level university tags, including amenity=university, go on the relation. (But it can get tricky if some university office or department occupies an undefined portion of a particular building that is otherwise not controlled by the university -- I tend to just use nodes tagged with name/operator/website and leave these out of the relation, which is not ideal.) J ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On 2/5/2020 4:36 AM, Lionel Giard wrote: Thus, it seems difficult to find "one" subdivision that will always work worldwide ?! :-) Maybe that we should keep a generic word and allow everything in it (like subdivision=* with the name of "School", "Institute", "College",... if relevant) ? I agree the various terms I've seen (faculty, department, school, college, institute, program(me), division, educational unit) don't seem to line up worldwide or even within some small regions. A generic term, with the site-specific term listed as part of the name=* tag, seems like a good solution. I'd probably be happier with department or division as the generic term, but subdivision might work. (In discussions like these I can't help thinking about the various proposals for a unifying education=* tag, and how that might affect the tagging of sort of hierarchy. The most recent one, currently "under way", is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Education_Reform_Alternative .) Jason ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Site relation are more used to put the tag "amenity=university" and all the information only 1 time for the whole university when it is spread across a city or multiple sites. This site relation equal to the amenity=university area under a campus that's all grouped into one place. Otherwise, if you query the data, you'll see many amenity=university (which means multiple universities) that are exactly the same which is wrong. But i don't see how it solve the subdivision either. I also map the building name or ref as what the university use in general, and put node "POI" for school or institute if they are officially located there in one place (or if you could argue that their main office is there). Le mer. 5 févr. 2020 à 22:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick a écrit : > You also have the problem of different Schools sharing the same building. > > With the Uni I'm familiar with, in one case you have the Clinical Sciences > building 1, which holds 3 lecture theatres, plus the School of Nursing & > the School of Pharmacy. > > It's currently mapped as "G16 - Clinical Science 1", which is how the Uni > refers to it. > > & that Uni, incidentally, is spread over 5 separate campuses across 2 > cities! > > Thanks > > Graeme > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
You also have the problem of different Schools sharing the same building. With the Uni I'm familiar with, in one case you have the Clinical Sciences building 1, which holds 3 lecture theatres, plus the School of Nursing & the School of Pharmacy. It's currently mapped as "G16 - Clinical Science 1", which is how the Uni refers to it. & that Uni, incidentally, is spread over 5 separate campuses across 2 cities! Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
sent from a phone > Il giorno 5 feb 2020, alle ore 11:53, Volker Schmidt ha > scritto: > > I have not looked into this in detail, but this seems to me a strong case for > site relations. I don’t see how site relations would solve the different levels of structure in different countries/universities. Site relations could solve the problem of connecting things added as nodes only, on the other hand this would slow down more detailed mapping as areas (which are generally preferable for everything with some size IMHO, even if approximate). When a faculty is distributed over several locations, it could be represented as multipolygons, or even just with a faculty tag in combination with other tags (like name of the university it is part of). I’m not dismissing the idea of site relations for this in general, but there isn’t a strong case in favor of them either (semantically, I would see a faculty at 2 locations as 2 “sites”). Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Apart from technicalities, there is another problem. Universities in different countries are subdivide in dìfferent ways: faculties, departments, institutes, colleges. Except for campus-type universities they are often distributed over an entire city. I have not looked into this in detail, but this seems to me a strong case for site relations. On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 17:05, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Universities may have faculties, that often deserved to be mapped > separately. > > For example university may take a large area, possibly disjointed area > across the city > but Faculty of dentistry, Faculty of forestry, Faculty of mathematics etc > may be > possible to be mapped as an area/node. > > Currently typical way to do that is to either > - map name on building > - create fake amenity=university with amenity=university > > It seems to me that amenity=faculty would be useful. > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Each country (and maybe university) have different subdivision, and sometimes even inside one university there are multiple different subdivision co-existing : for example in Belgium i know at least a few universities that use two separate division at the same time : - for the education part : Université > Faculty > School ; - for the research part : University > Sector > Institute. All of these can overlap. One professor can be part of one (or multiple) school and institute at the same time. And for buildings, an institute can be spread across multiple building, sharing space with a school ... It is not simple and purely administrative as there isn't always an unique spatial localisation for each institute or school. At the moment, i sometimes see the institute or school name on the building if it is generally located in one place. I have also seen many research institute tagged on a node with "office=research" as they are well known publicly, but again that's not always the case. Thus, it seems difficult to find "one" subdivision that will always work worldwide ?! :-) Maybe that we should keep a generic word and allow everything in it (like subdivision=* with the name of "School", "Institute", "College",... if relevant) ? Le mer. 5 févr. 2020 à 03:24, Jarek Piórkowski a écrit : > On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 11:44, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging writes: > > > Universities may have faculties, that often deserved to be mapped > separately. > > > ... > > > It seems to me that amenity=faculty would be useful. > > > > Perhaps, but beware that in US English, this is bizarre usage. Faculty > > refers to the set of people that are professors, not a place, and not a > > subdivision of a university. > > ... > > > > I'm sure other universities contain within them colleges, and I suspect > > "school" is fairly common. > > > > Really my point is that "Faculty of mathematics" is going to be > > confusing to en_US speakers. I have no idea if it's used in en_GB, but > > I've never heard of it. > > As a counterpoint, at my en_CA university established in 1957 we did > have faculties in the sense used by Mateusz. Schools were generally > ordered lower than faculties: School of Architecture was part of > Faculty of Engineering. Most sub-parts of faculties were named > Departments. > > --Jarek > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 11:44, Greg Troxel wrote: > Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging writes: > > Universities may have faculties, that often deserved to be mapped > > separately. > > ... > > It seems to me that amenity=faculty would be useful. > > Perhaps, but beware that in US English, this is bizarre usage. Faculty > refers to the set of people that are professors, not a place, and not a > subdivision of a university. > ... > > I'm sure other universities contain within them colleges, and I suspect > "school" is fairly common. > > Really my point is that "Faculty of mathematics" is going to be > confusing to en_US speakers. I have no idea if it's used in en_GB, but > I've never heard of it. As a counterpoint, at my en_CA university established in 1957 we did have faculties in the sense used by Mateusz. Schools were generally ordered lower than faculties: School of Architecture was part of Faculty of Engineering. Most sub-parts of faculties were named Departments. --Jarek ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Am Di., 4. Feb. 2020 um 17:45 Uhr schrieb Greg Troxel : > Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging writes: > > > Universities may have faculties, that often deserved to be mapped > separately. > +1, I agree with this. Also institutes, departments, and whatever subdivision there may be which can be associated to some space. To your real point, it does seem make sense to have a tag for a > subdivision of a university. But, often these sub-parts are > administrative and not physical. > Sometimes, these may be only administrative (and we would probably not create their own osm objects, but might want to add them as tag properties) , but there are also entities (parts of universities) which occupy "their own space", with dedicated buildings and grounds. We do not have documented standards for more detail then "university", while the parts can be very big and do have properties (like the field of endeavor) which can be standardized and are fundamental to know when you look for something (we are currently mostly relying on name). Looking at the tags in use: 50584 amenity=university (no common combination that would be useful for us here) 773 uses of faculty=* with values: School of Medicine, engineering, Facultad␣de␣Química,␣UNAM, Facultad␣de␣Ciencias,␣UNAM, law (20) 1138 uses of university=* with the values specifying parts of a university rather than a type of university: institute, lecture_hall, faculty (91), seminar_room, student_association there is also a department tag which is used 51 times in combination with faculty, and has useful values like mathematics (12), computer_science (11), physics (11), Chemistry (9), 09: Chemie (7), etc for institutes there is a key with 40 uses. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/amenity=university#combinations https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/faculty#values https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/university#values https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/department#combinations https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/department#values https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/institute#values > Perhaps, but beware that in US English, this is bizarre usage. Faculty > refers to the set of people that are professors, not a place, and not a > subdivision of a university. > > As an example, one well-known University has within in > School of Science > School of Engineering > School of Architecture of Planning > School of Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences. > School of Management > and > College of Computing > > I'm sure other universities contain within them colleges, and I suspect > "school" is fairly common. > "school" does not have values that seem to refer to universities so far: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/school#values IMHO it is not a good term as tag in osm for parts of universities, because it could easily be misunderstood. My preference would be "institute" for institutes, "faculty" for faculties (if useful) and maybe the department as the operator? The details will depend on the national and local situation. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 16:45, Greg Troxel wrote: Perhaps, but beware that in US English, this is bizarre usage. Faculty > refers to the set of people that are professors, not a place, and not a > subdivision of a university. > But in British English it more normally refers to a division of a university. The US appears to use meaning 1 of https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/faculty whilst the British use meaning 2. See, for example, https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/departments/byfaculty.aspx and https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/engineering/index.aspx -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Some chairs of faculties have separate locations, too. Regards Sebastian ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
4 Feb 2020, 17:30 by p...@trigpoint.me.uk: > On Tuesday, 4 February 2020, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > >> Universities may have faculties, that often deserved to be mapped separately. >> >> For example university may take a large area, possibly disjointed area >> across the city >> but Faculty of dentistry, Faculty of forestry, Faculty of mathematics etc >> may be >> possible to be mapped as an area/node. >> >> Currently typical way to do that is to either >> - map name on building >> - create fake amenity=university with amenity=university >> >> It seems to me that amenity=faculty would be useful. >> > Or university=faculty and keep the amenity tag for the overall university, on > the relation if it multi-site > So you purpose one area with an amenity=university (maybe multipolygon). And nodes/areas with just university=faculty?___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging writes: > Universities may have faculties, that often deserved to be mapped separately. > > For example university may take a large area, possibly disjointed area across > the city > but Faculty of dentistry, Faculty of forestry, Faculty of mathematics etc may > be > possible to be mapped as an area/node. > > Currently typical way to do that is to either > - map name on building > - create fake amenity=university with amenity=university > > It seems to me that amenity=faculty would be useful. Perhaps, but beware that in US English, this is bizarre usage. Faculty refers to the set of people that are professors, not a place, and not a subdivision of a university. As an example, one well-known University has within in School of Science School of Engineering School of Architecture of Planning School of Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences. School of Management and College of Computing I'm sure other universities contain within them colleges, and I suspect "school" is fairly common. Really my point is that "Faculty of mathematics" is going to be confusing to en_US speakers. I have no idea if it's used in en_GB, but I've never heard of it. To your real point, it does seem make sense to have a tag for a subdivision of a university. But, often these sub-parts are administrative and not physical. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 at 16:31, Philip Barnes wrote: > On Tuesday, 4 February 2020, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > > > It seems to me that amenity=faculty would be useful. > > > Or university=faculty and keep the amenity tag for the overall university, > on the relation if it multi-site. > I'm not happy with amenity=faculty (what's it a faculty of?). I have no real argument with university=faculty as a subkey of amenity=university but it appears that it's fairly common to add faculty=* as a subkey instead: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Duniversity#Faculties_and_departments -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On 04/02/2020 16:03, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: Universities may have faculties, that often deserved to be mapped separately. For example university may take a large area, possibly disjointed area across the city but Faculty of dentistry, Faculty of forestry, Faculty of mathematics etc may be possible to be mapped as an area/node. Currently typical way to do that is to either - map name on building - create fake amenity=university with amenity=university It seems to me that amenity=faculty would be useful. But faculty is a subset of university. The primary tag is already used as amenity=university Faculty=* is already in use. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Duniversity#Faculties_and_departments Cheers DaveF ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?
On Tuesday, 4 February 2020, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > Universities may have faculties, that often deserved to be mapped separately. > > For example university may take a large area, possibly disjointed area across > the city > but Faculty of dentistry, Faculty of forestry, Faculty of mathematics etc may > be > possible to be mapped as an area/node. > > Currently typical way to do that is to either > - map name on building > - create fake amenity=university with amenity=university > > It seems to me that amenity=faculty would be useful. > Or university=faculty and keep the amenity tag for the overall university, on the relation if it multi-site. Phil (trigpoint) -- Sent from my Sailfish device ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
