Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread ac via talk 
On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 10:09:42 -0400
Scott Allen  wrote:

> Anyway, you can reply if you wish, but this will be my last.
> 
whahahaha, okay. you can also reply if you wish, but I may reply again
and if anybody else replies, I am going to suspect that we may be on
some sort of mailing list :)

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Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread Alvin Starr via talk 

On 8/27/20 9:44 AM, Mauro Souza via talk wrote:
If you have a VPS, or a co-located server, or something like that, and 
unlimited bandwidth, SIA and Storj are good to pass some time. The 
economics aren't on the side of the storage owners, but on the storage 
renters. It's so cheap that you can rent a terabyte on both networks, 
and use it for double backups. I stored maybe 200GB of data for a 
year, and maybe made 10 cents. Maybe less. And as an earlier adopter, 
I earned some hundreds of GB for free that I never used.
The problem was not so much that it was using up my 25MB that I am 
running at home but that it was hogging ALL my bandwidth causing 
congestion problems.
I could likely do something with traffic shaping but I was not all that 
invested in the project to try to see how to make it workable.
The long term problem is that if I am subjecting my system to the extra 
traffic and not getting enough to justify the extra wear and tear on my 
disks then why will I put the storage out there.
If the economics don't work in the long run for the storage providers 
then those providers will exit the application.


If I remember correctly a number of years ago HP had a storage service 
that was hosting LOTS of data for people.
They decided the economics were not in their favor and shut it down 
causing huge inconvenience and problems for the customer base.
What do you do when you have a huge data-set with a storage provider 
that will take months to move and get told they are closing down before 
you can extract all your data?


When Storj/sia  take their 30% off the top  and then distribute the rest 
to the 3 to 5 storage hosters your looking at a vanishingly small return 
on your effort.
Combine this with network latency  related penalties and the home user 
with a few TB of space to share will not be interested sharing the space.


It has been a while since I looked but I never found any business cases 
for storage providers.
I don't expect to become the next Jeff Bezos by selling my storage space 
but I do want to know that I will cover my costs and make a bit.




I once was toying with this idea of providing low price backup 
solution to small businesses, storing data on Storj and SIA at the 
same time. Both networks aren't still "production ready", so I would 
store on both at the same time, and keep watching if the files are 
still available periodically. You only need enough storage to store 
all the metadata (client id, file name, size, the hash of it on the 
network, etc) on your database. So you could store a petabyte of data 
while having a couple GB on your server. The agent would upload 
directly to the networks and send you only the data you need to 
restore the file later. It can work, storage is not the difficult 
part, and the "what changed since last backup?" question is the main 
issue.
Since the various services are object stores then why not just store 
eachfile as an objects and then keep track of the objects that change.

It would be no better/worse than a regular filesystem backup like dump.



Mauro
http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521
Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God.


Em qui., 27 de ago. de 2020 às 08:37, Alvin Starr via talk 
mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> escreveu:


As for Siacoin and Storj I found that they used 100% of my
available internet bandwidth without using any storage.
Luckily for me I opted for "unlimited bandwidth" but not so lucky
for Teksavvy.
So doing something like sharing your few free TB could cost you
big time if you were a Bell or Rogers customer.

I have access to large amounts of excess storage but I have yet to
be convinced that I could even pay for the power that it takes to
spin the drives.
The concept is great but the economics does not seem to be there yet.



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Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread Russell Reiter via talk 
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 12:29 PM Christopher Browne via talk, 
wrote:

>
> https://thecorrespondent.com/655/blockchain-the-amazing-solution-for-almost-nothing/86714927310-8f431cae
>
> I found it particularly hilarious when the writer of the article asked the
> maker of the childrens' aid app if he had noticed that the app didn't
> actually need blockchain at all.
>
> "That's right."
>
> But the punch line was even better...
>
> Isn't it strange that you won all these awards despite not really using
> blockchain?
>
> "We keep trying to tell people, but it doesn’t seem to stick. You’re
> calling me about it again now … ”
>

I like articles description of what a blockchain is.

A "decentralised consensus algorithm."

However it is such a huge power sink that the "whale" speculators were
locating in the US just south of the Quebec border in order to take
advantage of the best rates in North America.

A Blockchain RFP  now a part of Hydro Quebecs stratigic plan

https://www.mccarthy.ca/en/insights/blogs/canadian-energy-perspectives/canadian-power-key-developments-2019-trends-watch-2020-quebec-overview?utm_source=Mondaq_medium=syndication_campaign=LinkedIn-integration

https://www.engadget.com/it-takes-an-estimated-seven-nuclear-plants-to-power-our-bitcoin-mining-212441059.html

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> question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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buries th’ dead an’ roasts thim aftherward.” F. P. Dunne
Russell
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Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread Scott Allen via talk 
On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 at 09:38, ac via talk  wrote:
> As you said "almost all others" it certainly is not any? console users,

So you're doing this for the benefit of a small percentage of readers
that use a console based mail reader without threading or subject
grouping capability? Also, there are the archives available for
viewing by thread, or if you've deleted a message you wish to review.
https://gtalug.org/pipermail/talk/
It works fine from a console using lynx.

Anyway, you can reply if you wish, but this will be my last.

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Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread Mauro Souza via talk 
If you have a VPS, or a co-located server, or something like that, and
unlimited bandwidth, SIA and Storj are good to pass some time. The
economics aren't on the side of the storage owners, but on the storage
renters. It's so cheap that you can rent a terabyte on both networks, and
use it for double backups. I stored maybe 200GB of data for a year, and
maybe made 10 cents. Maybe less. And as an earlier adopter, I earned some
hundreds of GB for free that I never used.

I once was toying with this idea of providing low price backup solution to
small businesses, storing data on Storj and SIA at the same time. Both
networks aren't still "production ready", so I would store on both at the
same time, and keep watching if the files are still available periodically.
You only need enough storage to store all the metadata (client id, file
name, size, the hash of it on the network, etc) on your database. So you
could store a petabyte of data while having a couple GB on your server. The
agent would upload directly to the networks and send you only the data you
need to restore the file later. It can work, storage is not the difficult
part, and the "what changed since last backup?" question is the main issue.

Mauro
http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521
Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God.


Em qui., 27 de ago. de 2020 às 08:37, Alvin Starr via talk 
escreveu:

> As for Siacoin and Storj I found that they used 100% of my available
> internet bandwidth without using any storage.
> Luckily for me I opted for "unlimited bandwidth" but not so lucky for
> Teksavvy.
> So doing something like sharing your few free TB could cost you big time
> if you were a Bell or Rogers customer.
>
> I have access to large amounts of excess storage but I have yet to be
> convinced that I could even pay for the power that it takes to spin the
> drives.
> The concept is great but the economics does not seem to be there yet.
>
>
> ---
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> Unsubscribe from this mailing list https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
> --
> Alvin Starr   ||   land:  (647)478-6285
> Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133al...@netvel.net   
>||
>
>
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Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread ac via talk 
On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 09:06:23 -0400
Scott Allen  wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 at 07:25, ac via talk  wrote:
> > Not trimming the original post simply states that imnsho the
> > quality is high enough that you can read it again.  
> Your post's header included a reference to the message you were
> replying to. My mail reader (and almost all others) groups threads
> using these references, as well as by the title. If I felt your "+1"
> gave me a reason to re-read the original, I could easily go back and
> do so.
> 
It was one fine spring day, at least over 180? (it may be 280 or even
more) something full moons ago that i realized that Mutt simply sucks at
threading, so I disabled it. Since then, I also thought that some/ALL
Linux console users probably also battle and struggle with threads (and
the worth/value which the unwashed places in threads) I congratulate
you on the fine prowess of your "mail reader" but it is probably not
console based? (or maybe it could be? is it Pine? not looked at Pine
in decades...hmm, maybe?) 

As you said "almost all others" it certainly is not any? console users,
unless Pine or something else has turned me into an ignorant dino...

Andre




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Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread Scott Allen via talk 
On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 at 07:25, ac via talk  wrote:
> Not trimming the original post simply states that imnsho the
> quality is high enough that you can read it again.

Your post's header included a reference to the message you were
replying to. My mail reader (and almost all others) groups threads
using these references, as well as by the title. If I felt your "+1"
gave me a reason to re-read the original, I could easily go back and
do so.

-- 
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Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread ac via talk 
On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 07:37:45 -0400
Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
> Say it aint so...
> Are you telling me that your don't believe that the blockchain is the 
> solution for everything from climate change to erectile dysfunction.
> But seriously.
> There are some real uses for blockchain technologies but what we are 
> seeing is a repeat of the .com bubble.
> Where if you had a wacky idea and stuck the words "on the internet"
> in it somewhere and did your pitch you could get millions in funding.
> Hey. Have I told you of my plans to handle garbage disposal "on the 
> blockchain". The ICO is next week.
> People do this kind of thing constantly.
> Take a good idea and then push it till it is an amazingly bad idea.
> As for Siacoin and Storj I found that they used 100% of my available 
> internet bandwidth without using any storage.
> Luckily for me I opted for "unlimited bandwidth" but not so lucky for 
> Teksavvy.
> So doing something like sharing your few free TB could cost you big
> time if you were a Bell or Rogers customer.
> I have access to large amounts of excess storage but I have yet to be 
> convinced that I could even pay for the power that it takes to spin
> the drives.
> The concept is great but the economics does not seem to be there yet.
> 
you can also interchange "blockchain" with "AI" ?

as someone who started using my own AI tech in 2010 already, it never
amazes me how many people the past year or two uses "AI" somewhere and
in something - where it is not really "AI" but either simple timers or
very basic machine learning or simple pattern identification.

so, I guess in the recent words of the most powerful brain[1] on the
planet when told about 162 086 covid-19 related deaths: "...it is what
it is..."

maybe worth 1c ? 

Andre
++
[1] powerful brain is a brain in control a small red button, inside a
beautifully crafted leather briefcase (although the 'red' is not really
'red' but more of a vermillion) 


> 
> On 8/26/20 1:59 PM, Mauro Souza via talk wrote:
> > It's really funny. It's more the result of "lets use blockchain!"
> > on everything that creates those issues.
> >
> > And blockchain is hyper-overhyped... It can help in a few specific 
> > problems, but not on every single problem without exception. But 
> > everyone liked the concept and ran away screaming blockchain all
> > over the place. Blockchain on email. Blockchain to rent a car. 
> > Blockchain-powered lettuce salad... that's insanity. I like the 
> > technology, I study it and sometimes I answer things on forums, but 
> > all the time when people ask me if I believe blockchain would help 
> > them, I say NO
> >
> > The "everybody must have everyone's data" is an issue. As the
> > solution grows, the ledger grows, increasing the storage and
> > processing requirements. With less people connected, you need an
> > intermediary to access the blockchain, and those intermediaries can
> > be attacked and take down the network. And there's few solutions to
> > that.
> >
> > One solution is the blockchain used by former Raiblocks (now Nano). 
> > It's a DAG (directed acyclic graph), so any client will have only
> > his own transactions, and not the entire ledger. That allows one to
> > run a client on an ESP32, for example. there will be special nodes
> > that store the entire ledger (like the Dash supernodes), but the
> > clients don't need that. Who/what would use it? No idea... crypto
> > coins, and not much else.
> >
> > And the smart contract solution... They aren't smart, they aren't 
> > contracts, and they aren't solutions. One mistake and everything 
> > crashes down instantly.The Ethereum DAO disaster, the Parity 
> > multi-signature contract, and that new DeFi that melted down in a
> > day because people realized they made a mistake on the code, and
> > nobody would ever have enough tokens to decide anything because of
> > an arithmetic mistake. And many more examples.
> >
> > If the "contract" can be changed after creation, you cannot trust
> > it because it can be useful now (like tokens on a web game that you
> > pay to play), but later the owner changes the contract, pockets all 
> > tokens, and takes down the game. If it cannot be changed, any error
> > on the contract is set on stone forever with deadly consequences.
> > There are some countermeasures to that, like proxy contracts: a
> > main contract references secondary contracts with the functions,
> > but the main contract holds the data and the tokens. if a secondary
> > contract is found to have an error, you deploy an amended version,
> > call a function on the main contract to reference the next one, and
> > done. The downside is that it is more expensive to run this
> > contract, and the owner can, you know, replace the secondary
> > contracts and steal everything. You can add multi-signatures,
> > quorum, external oracles, but those only increase the cost and put
> > a little protection against a rogue owner.
> >
> > There are very few things

Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread Alvin Starr via talk 

Say it aint so...

Are you telling me that your don't believe that the blockchain is the 
solution for everything from climate change to erectile dysfunction.


But seriously.

There are some real uses for blockchain technologies but what we are 
seeing is a repeat of the .com bubble.


Where if you had a wacky idea and stuck the words "on the internet" in 
it somewhere and did your pitch you could get millions in funding.


Hey. Have I told you of my plans to handle garbage disposal "on the 
blockchain". The ICO is next week.


People do this kind of thing constantly.
Take a good idea and then push it till it is an amazingly bad idea.

As for Siacoin and Storj I found that they used 100% of my available 
internet bandwidth without using any storage.
Luckily for me I opted for "unlimited bandwidth" but not so lucky for 
Teksavvy.
So doing something like sharing your few free TB could cost you big time 
if you were a Bell or Rogers customer.


I have access to large amounts of excess storage but I have yet to be 
convinced that I could even pay for the power that it takes to spin the 
drives.

The concept is great but the economics does not seem to be there yet.


On 8/26/20 1:59 PM, Mauro Souza via talk wrote:
It's really funny. It's more the result of "lets use blockchain!" on 
everything that creates those issues.


And blockchain is hyper-overhyped... It can help in a few specific 
problems, but not on every single problem without exception. But 
everyone liked the concept and ran away screaming blockchain all over 
the place. Blockchain on email. Blockchain to rent a car. 
Blockchain-powered lettuce salad... that's insanity. I like the 
technology, I study it and sometimes I answer things on forums, but 
all the time when people ask me if I believe blockchain would help 
them, I say NO


The "everybody must have everyone's data" is an issue. As the solution 
grows, the ledger grows, increasing the storage and processing 
requirements. With less people connected, you need an intermediary to 
access the blockchain, and those intermediaries can be attacked and 
take down the network. And there's few solutions to that.


One solution is the blockchain used by former Raiblocks (now Nano). 
It's a DAG (directed acyclic graph), so any client will have only his 
own transactions, and not the entire ledger. That allows one to run a 
client on an ESP32, for example. there will be special nodes that 
store the entire ledger (like the Dash supernodes), but the clients 
don't need that. Who/what would use it? No idea... crypto coins, and 
not much else.


And the smart contract solution... They aren't smart, they aren't 
contracts, and they aren't solutions. One mistake and everything 
crashes down instantly.The Ethereum DAO disaster, the Parity 
multi-signature contract, and that new DeFi that melted down in a day 
because people realized they made a mistake on the code, and nobody 
would ever have enough tokens to decide anything because of an 
arithmetic mistake. And many more examples.


If the "contract" can be changed after creation, you cannot trust it 
because it can be useful now (like tokens on a web game that you pay 
to play), but later the owner changes the contract, pockets all 
tokens, and takes down the game. If it cannot be changed, any error on 
the contract is set on stone forever with deadly consequences. There 
are some countermeasures to that, like proxy contracts: a main 
contract references secondary contracts with the functions, but the 
main contract holds the data and the tokens. if a secondary contract 
is found to have an error, you deploy an amended version, call a 
function on the main contract to reference the next one, and done. The 
downside is that it is more expensive to run this contract, and the 
owner can, you know, replace the secondary contracts and steal 
everything. You can add multi-signatures, quorum, external oracles, 
but those only increase the cost and put a little protection against a 
rogue owner.


There are very few things that blockchain can be useful, and one of 
them is distributed storage. Siacoin and Storj, for example, let you 
rent the extra space on that 4tb disk you already have for some coins. 
It is not profitable enough to make you buy storage just for that 
purpose, but you already have the space, right? And you can rent some 
space on the network for backing up things when you will reformat your 
computer, and want to store your data in case something breaks. It's 
cheaper than anything else, even cheaper than amazon glacier.


Those supply chain management things are useful too, if you can 
integrate it correctly (and that's a BIG if). If you own a bakery, for 
example, you scan all the ingredients you have, store them all on your 
wallet (or have your purchasing software do that automagically) and 
any time any of your suppliers have any recall on something you got, 
you are warned. And everything down the line gets warned that they 
bought

Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread ac via talk 

I practiced with my first top post in 2006, before it became
fashionable :)  top posting is quite useful in communicating a singular
idea. Not trimming the original post simply states that imnsho the
quality is high enough that you can read it again. If you happen to be
someone that only scanned it the first time - or if you missed it
completely do read it, it is very cool and very valuable.
(I am re-adding it to the bottom of this reply)

On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 06:54:40 -0400
Scott Allen  wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 at 05:56, ac via talk  wrote:
> > +1  
> That's got to be one of the lowest signal to noise ratio posts I've
 

Yes, there is such a lot of crap, opinionated trash and mind numbing
idiotic arrays of bits that when one discovers gold, it simply cannot
be "trimmed" as it is actually worth something.

Unlike of course my opinion of your own waste of bits :)

my 2c

Andre

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 14:59:12 -0300
Mauro Souza via talk  wrote:

> It's really funny. It's more the result of "lets use blockchain!" on
> everything that creates those issues.
> 
> And blockchain is hyper-overhyped... It can help in a few specific
> problems, but not on every single problem without exception. But
> everyone liked the concept and ran away screaming blockchain all over
> the place. Blockchain on email. Blockchain to rent a car.
> Blockchain-powered lettuce salad... that's insanity. I like the
> technology, I study it and sometimes I answer things on forums, but
> all the time when people ask me if I believe blockchain would help
> them, I say NO
> 
> The "everybody must have everyone's data" is an issue. As the solution
> grows, the ledger grows, increasing the storage and processing
> requirements. With less people connected, you need an intermediary to
> access the blockchain, and those intermediaries can be attacked and
> take down the network. And there's few solutions to that.
> 
> One solution is the blockchain used by former Raiblocks (now Nano).
> It's a DAG (directed acyclic graph), so any client will have only his
> own transactions, and not the entire ledger. That allows one to run a
> client on an ESP32, for example. there will be special nodes that
> store the entire ledger (like the Dash supernodes), but the clients
> don't need that. Who/what would use it? No idea... crypto coins, and
> not much else.
> 
> And the smart contract solution... They aren't smart, they aren't
> contracts, and they aren't solutions. One mistake and everything
> crashes down instantly.The Ethereum DAO disaster, the Parity
> multi-signature contract, and that new DeFi that melted down in a day
> because people realized they made a mistake on the code, and nobody
> would ever have enough tokens to decide anything because of an
> arithmetic mistake. And many more examples.
> 
> If the "contract" can be changed after creation, you cannot trust it
> because it can be useful now (like tokens on a web game that you pay
> to play), but later the owner changes the contract, pockets all
> tokens, and takes down the game. If it cannot be changed, any error
> on the contract is set on stone forever with deadly consequences.
> There are some countermeasures to that, like proxy contracts: a main
> contract references secondary contracts with the functions, but the
> main contract holds the data and the tokens. if a secondary contract
> is found to have an error, you deploy an amended version, call a
> function on the main contract to reference the next one, and done.
> The downside is that it is more expensive to run this contract, and
> the owner can, you know, replace the secondary contracts and steal
> everything. You can add multi-signatures, quorum, external oracles,
> but those only increase the cost and put a little protection against
> a rogue owner.
> 
> There are very few things that blockchain can be useful, and one of
> them is distributed storage. Siacoin and Storj, for example, let you
> rent the extra space on that 4tb disk you already have for some
> coins. It is not profitable enough to make you buy storage just for
> that purpose, but you already have the space, right? And you can rent
> some space on the network for backing up things when you will
> reformat your computer, and want to store your data in case something
> breaks. It's cheaper than anything else, even cheaper than amazon
> glacier.
> 
> Those supply chain management things are useful too, if you can
> integrate it correctly (and that's a BIG if). If you own a bakery,
> for example, you scan all the ingredients you have, store them all on
> your wallet (or have your purchasing software do that automagically)
> and any time any of your suppliers have any recall on something you
> got, you are warned. And everything down the line gets warned that
> they bought a recalled bread from you. Your customers don't even need
> to get back to you so you reimburse them, the next time they come to
> buy something they already have a credit for that contaminated bread

Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread Scott Allen via talk 
On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 at 05:56, ac via talk  wrote:
> +1

That's got to be one of the lowest signal to noise ratio posts I've
seen. Two characters of top posting above about 5800 characters
quoting the entire previous message!

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Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-27 Thread ac via talk 

+1

On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 14:59:12 -0300
Mauro Souza via talk  wrote:

> It's really funny. It's more the result of "lets use blockchain!" on
> everything that creates those issues.
> 
> And blockchain is hyper-overhyped... It can help in a few specific
> problems, but not on every single problem without exception. But
> everyone liked the concept and ran away screaming blockchain all over
> the place. Blockchain on email. Blockchain to rent a car.
> Blockchain-powered lettuce salad... that's insanity. I like the
> technology, I study it and sometimes I answer things on forums, but
> all the time when people ask me if I believe blockchain would help
> them, I say NO
> 
> The "everybody must have everyone's data" is an issue. As the solution
> grows, the ledger grows, increasing the storage and processing
> requirements. With less people connected, you need an intermediary to
> access the blockchain, and those intermediaries can be attacked and
> take down the network. And there's few solutions to that.
> 
> One solution is the blockchain used by former Raiblocks (now Nano).
> It's a DAG (directed acyclic graph), so any client will have only his
> own transactions, and not the entire ledger. That allows one to run a
> client on an ESP32, for example. there will be special nodes that
> store the entire ledger (like the Dash supernodes), but the clients
> don't need that. Who/what would use it? No idea... crypto coins, and
> not much else.
> 
> And the smart contract solution... They aren't smart, they aren't
> contracts, and they aren't solutions. One mistake and everything
> crashes down instantly.The Ethereum DAO disaster, the Parity
> multi-signature contract, and that new DeFi that melted down in a day
> because people realized they made a mistake on the code, and nobody
> would ever have enough tokens to decide anything because of an
> arithmetic mistake. And many more examples.
> 
> If the "contract" can be changed after creation, you cannot trust it
> because it can be useful now (like tokens on a web game that you pay
> to play), but later the owner changes the contract, pockets all
> tokens, and takes down the game. If it cannot be changed, any error
> on the contract is set on stone forever with deadly consequences.
> There are some countermeasures to that, like proxy contracts: a main
> contract references secondary contracts with the functions, but the
> main contract holds the data and the tokens. if a secondary contract
> is found to have an error, you deploy an amended version, call a
> function on the main contract to reference the next one, and done.
> The downside is that it is more expensive to run this contract, and
> the owner can, you know, replace the secondary contracts and steal
> everything. You can add multi-signatures, quorum, external oracles,
> but those only increase the cost and put a little protection against
> a rogue owner.
> 
> There are very few things that blockchain can be useful, and one of
> them is distributed storage. Siacoin and Storj, for example, let you
> rent the extra space on that 4tb disk you already have for some
> coins. It is not profitable enough to make you buy storage just for
> that purpose, but you already have the space, right? And you can rent
> some space on the network for backing up things when you will
> reformat your computer, and want to store your data in case something
> breaks. It's cheaper than anything else, even cheaper than amazon
> glacier.
> 
> Those supply chain management things are useful too, if you can
> integrate it correctly (and that's a BIG if). If you own a bakery,
> for example, you scan all the ingredients you have, store them all on
> your wallet (or have your purchasing software do that automagically)
> and any time any of your suppliers have any recall on something you
> got, you are warned. And everything down the line gets warned that
> they bought a recalled bread from you. Your customers don't even need
> to get back to you so you reimburse them, the next time they come to
> buy something they already have a credit for that contaminated bread
> you sold to them last week. But to integrate everyone is a nightmare,
> there are lots of privacy issues, industrial secrets issues... on a
> limited scale, it can work. Too limited and doesn't solve anything.
> Too broad and all that privacy issues get into your face.
> 
> The fact is that there are very few cases that blockchain can be used
> that a database cannot. And databases are here since a long time ago,
> everyone knows how to build them, operate them, backup them, and
> extend them.
> 
> But just wait for the AI-generated, solar-powered, graphene-based
> multi-cloud stored 6G-capable IPv8-addressing blockchain...
> 
> Mauro
> http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521
> Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God.
> 
> 
> Em qua., 26 de ago. de 2020 às 13:29, Christopher Browne via talk <
> talk@gtalug.org> escreveu:  
> 
> >
> >

Re: [GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-26 Thread Mauro Souza via talk 
It's really funny. It's more the result of "lets use blockchain!" on
everything that creates those issues.

And blockchain is hyper-overhyped... It can help in a few specific
problems, but not on every single problem without exception. But everyone
liked the concept and ran away screaming blockchain all over the place.
Blockchain on email. Blockchain to rent a car. Blockchain-powered lettuce
salad... that's insanity. I like the technology, I study it and sometimes I
answer things on forums, but all the time when people ask me if I believe
blockchain would help them, I say NO

The "everybody must have everyone's data" is an issue. As the solution
grows, the ledger grows, increasing the storage and processing
requirements. With less people connected, you need an intermediary to
access the blockchain, and those intermediaries can be attacked and take
down the network. And there's few solutions to that.

One solution is the blockchain used by former Raiblocks (now Nano). It's a
DAG (directed acyclic graph), so any client will have only his own
transactions, and not the entire ledger. That allows one to run a client on
an ESP32, for example. there will be special nodes that store the entire
ledger (like the Dash supernodes), but the clients don't need that.
Who/what would use it? No idea... crypto coins, and not much else.

And the smart contract solution... They aren't smart, they aren't
contracts, and they aren't solutions. One mistake and everything crashes
down instantly.The Ethereum DAO disaster, the Parity multi-signature
contract, and that new DeFi that melted down in a day because people
realized they made a mistake on the code, and nobody would ever have enough
tokens to decide anything because of an arithmetic mistake. And many more
examples.

If the "contract" can be changed after creation, you cannot trust it
because it can be useful now (like tokens on a web game that you pay to
play), but later the owner changes the contract, pockets all tokens, and
takes down the game. If it cannot be changed, any error on the contract is
set on stone forever with deadly consequences. There are some
countermeasures to that, like proxy contracts: a main contract references
secondary contracts with the functions, but the main contract holds the
data and the tokens. if a secondary contract is found to have an error, you
deploy an amended version, call a function on the main contract to
reference the next one, and done. The downside is that it is more expensive
to run this contract, and the owner can, you know, replace the secondary
contracts and steal everything. You can add multi-signatures, quorum,
external oracles, but those only increase the cost and put a little
protection against a rogue owner.

There are very few things that blockchain can be useful, and one of them is
distributed storage. Siacoin and Storj, for example, let you rent the extra
space on that 4tb disk you already have for some coins. It is not
profitable enough to make you buy storage just for that purpose, but you
already have the space, right? And you can rent some space on the network
for backing up things when you will reformat your computer, and want to
store your data in case something breaks. It's cheaper than anything else,
even cheaper than amazon glacier.

Those supply chain management things are useful too, if you can integrate
it correctly (and that's a BIG if). If you own a bakery, for example, you
scan all the ingredients you have, store them all on your wallet (or have
your purchasing software do that automagically) and any time any of your
suppliers have any recall on something you got, you are warned. And
everything down the line gets warned that they bought a recalled bread from
you. Your customers don't even need to get back to you so you reimburse
them, the next time they come to buy something they already have a credit
for that contaminated bread you sold to them last week. But to integrate
everyone is a nightmare, there are lots of privacy issues, industrial
secrets issues... on a limited scale, it can work. Too limited and doesn't
solve anything. Too broad and all that privacy issues get into your face.

The fact is that there are very few cases that blockchain can be used that
a database cannot. And databases are here since a long time ago, everyone
knows how to build them, operate them, backup them, and extend them.

But just wait for the AI-generated, solar-powered, graphene-based
multi-cloud stored 6G-capable IPv8-addressing blockchain...

Mauro
http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521
Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God.


Em qua., 26 de ago. de 2020 às 13:29, Christopher Browne via talk <
talk@gtalug.org> escreveu:

>
> https://thecorrespondent.com/655/blockchain-the-amazing-solution-for-almost-nothing/86714927310-8f431cae
>
> I found it particularly hilarious when the writer of the article asked the
> maker of the childrens' aid app if he had noticed that the app didn't
>

[GTALUG] Blockchain, the solution to nothing

2020-08-26 Thread Christopher Browne via talk 
https://thecorrespondent.com/655/blockchain-the-amazing-solution-for-almost-nothing/86714927310-8f431cae

I found it particularly hilarious when the writer of the article asked the
maker of the childrens' aid app if he had noticed that the app didn't
actually need blockchain at all.

"That's right."

But the punch line was even better...

Isn't it strange that you won all these awards despite not really using
blockchain?

"We keep trying to tell people, but it doesn’t seem to stick. You’re
calling me about it again now … ”
-- 
When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the
question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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