Elliotte Harold wrote:
Kenneth Downs wrote:
Select title
,SUBSTRING(text ...insert regexp here...)
from chapters
where book_name = 'XML in a Nutshell'
Regexps can't do that though. Regular expression are an insufficiently
powerful tool for processing XML. Trying to do that is j
Rob Marscher wrote on Monday, August 06, 2007 10:50 AM:
> On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:42 PM, Hans Zaunere wrote:
> > AliasMatch /(.*) "/var/www/www.something.com/index.php"
>
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_alias.html#aliasmatch
>
> I wonder why the major php frameworks don't mention this as
On 8/14/07, Steve Manes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Daniel Krook wrote:
> > Here's a press release put out today on a healthcare provider that appears
> > to be using XML in DB9 v9 for that sort of thing. Express-C is free (not
> > open source though) and comes with the pureXML feature.
> > http:
Daniel Krook wrote:
Here's a press release put out today on a healthcare provider that appears
to be using XML in DB9 v9 for that sort of thing. Express-C is free (not
open source though) and comes with the pureXML feature.
http://www.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/22131.wss
The health car
Josh McCormack wrote:
Do you have any recommended reading on XML CMS? Do you know of any
that are open source and in a useful state?
Several people asked me this so rather than responding individually I
just wrote up some thogughts and put them here:
http://cafe.elharo.com/xml/the-state-of
Immediately following this conversation I stopped by B&N to pick up
this book:
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0596006349
XQuery by Priscilla Walmsley
It mainly goes over XPath 2.0 vs. 1.0 for most of the book, but
overall it is a *great* insight into the topic. Also very good
examples on FL
On 8/11/07, Elliotte Harold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here's another common use case: extract the links from a web site. Do a
> Google-like reverse index that finds all the pages linking to this one.
> The only way to make that happen in a relational DB is to chop the
> content into so many tri
Steve,
> Elliotte Harold wrote:
>
> > Closer to home, think about a blogging system or a
> content management
> > system. Now imagine what you could do if the page structure were
> > actually queryable, and not just an opaque blob in MySQLsomewhere.
>
> This is a fascinating discussion. I ca
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Closer to home, think about a blogging system or a content management
system. Now imagine what you could do if the page structure were
actually queryable, and not just an opaque blob in MySQL somewhere.
This is a fascinating discussion. I can see how an NXD might be a
On 8/11/07, Elliotte Harold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Closer to home, think about a blogging system or a content management
> system. Now imagine what you could do if the page structure were
> actually queryable, and not just an opaque blob in MySQL somewhere.
>
> --
> Elliotte Rusty Harold [E
csnyder wrote:
If it's not too much trouble, could you give us some other use cases
for an XML database? Because title and first paragraph, if that's
something a system "routinely does" could easily be stored as
relational data at the time of import.
Storing books, web pages, and the like in
Kenneth Downs wrote:
Select title
,SUBSTRING(text ...insert regexp here...)
from chapters
where book_name = 'XML in a Nutshell'
Regexps can't do that though. Regular expression are an insufficiently
powerful tool for processing XML. Trying to do that is just a world of
pain.
csnyder wrote:
On 8/8/07, Elliotte Harold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Some relational databases have added non-relational, fulltext search
extensions to their products just as some have added non-relational XML
extensions. These are adequate for simple uses, if you don't push them
too hard. H
On 8/8/07, Elliotte Harold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Some relational databases have added non-relational, fulltext search
> extensions to their products just as some have added non-relational XML
> extensions. These are adequate for simple uses, if you don't push them
> too hard. However they a
Kenneth Downs wrote:
Then consider that you want to be able to make queries like, "Find all
the paragraphs containing both the words 'Bush' and 'incompetent'" so
you can't just shove everything into a BLOB.
Two words: text search.
Nope, not the same thing at all.
Index engines like FAS
Jeremy Mcentire wrote:
Not to mention that the utility of XML is not simply inherent in it's
being small. No one is claiming that it is small. But, there is
utility there that makes it worth the size. There is always a
tradeoff. To complain about XML because it takes more characters to
st
I think the scary reality is that those banks and CC companies are
generally managing all their database needs with some abstracted
Cobol. It does the job. Everyone's afraid to touch it. And the folks
that built it died years ago. yipes!
:-) ed
On 8/8/07, Kenneth Downs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wr
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Kenneth Downs wrote:
A sourceforge project does not a phenomenon make. I guess when the
banks and airlines have our data in the XML files, and I don't mean a
few hybrid patchwork examples, I mean the hardcore permanent
long-term stuff as well as the transactional suppo
Elliotte Harold wrote:
David Krings wrote:
The best thing about XML is that it is really is just a flat file and
everything in it has a beginning and an end. I cannot think of
anything that one would want to store in XML that cannot be stored in
a db and that also cannot be stored in a text f
Jeremy Mcentire wrote:
Of course, if you really want to rock, try combining
XQuery+XQueryP+APP+a native XML database. Once the tooling matures a
bit, that's a stack that's going to make all previous web dev
frameworks look like PowerBuilder.
Not a chance. There is no such thing as a native X
The best thing about XML is that it is really is just a flat file
and everything in it has a beginning and an end. I cannot think of
anything that one would want to store in XML that cannot be stored
in a db and that also cannot be stored in a text file with way
less overhead. Examples are
Of course, if you really want to rock, try combining XQuery+XQueryP
+APP+a native XML database. Once the tooling matures a bit, that's
a stack that's going to make all previous web dev frameworks look
like PowerBuilder.
Not a chance. There is no such thing as a native XML database and
the
David Krings wrote:
The best thing about XML is that it is really is just a flat file and
everything in it has a beginning and an end. I cannot think of anything
that one would want to store in XML that cannot be stored in a db and
that also cannot be stored in a text file with way less overhe
Kenneth Downs wrote:
A sourceforge project does not a phenomenon make. I guess when the
banks and airlines have our data in the XML files, and I don't mean a
few hybrid patchwork examples, I mean the hardcore permanent long-term
stuff as well as the transactional support for the reservations
On 8/8/07, David Krings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The best thing about XML is that it is really is just a flat file and
> everything in it has a beginning and an end. I cannot think of anything
> that one would want to store in XML that cannot be stored in a db and
> that also cannot be stored i
I think XML is the cleanest method to abstract not only content from
design, but from code as well. If you take a look at this sample
site, you can see a simple implementation. I'm working up a generic
framework or CMS that will use this approach.
http://jmcentire.ath.cx:8080/
If you hav
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Kenneth Downs wrote:
Not a chance. There is no such thing as a native XML database and
there never will be because XML is a file format (oops, data format),
and an extremely inefficient one at that. To have a native database
you need a data model. XML uses the hierar
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Relational databases didn't take the world by storm overnight. XML
databases won't either. But they will be adopted because they do let
people solve problems they have today that they cannot solve with any
other tools.
My problem is that I don't get paid 500k/year for w
Kenneth Downs wrote:
Not a chance. There is no such thing as a native XML database and there
never will be because XML is a file format (oops, data format), and an
extremely inefficient one at that. To have a native database you need a
data model. XML uses the hierarchical model and if you'
David Krings wrote:
Don't worry! Finally someone who sees XML as what it is and that it is
by far not as glorious and the key to world peace as many claim. In the
end XML is an ini file on steroids. And XML without DTD is only half of
the pieso much for self-defining.
If all you do is
Kenneth Downs wrote:
And if you insist on using XML just because its so wonderful to use 17
characters to store the state NY, it will never be able
to compete with even the most immature relational engines for pure
speed. Maybe on example and toy sites, but never for anything that
needs to sc
Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
Of course, if you really want to rock, try combining
XQuery+XQueryP+APP+a native XML database. Once the tooling matures a
bit, that's a stack that's going to make all previous web dev
frameworks look like PowerBuilder.
Not a chance. There is no such thing as
I had the same issue a while back. cc me on a good response willya?
On 8/5/07, Elliotte Harold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm considering a simple site that I may design in PHP. PHP is probably
> the simplest solution except for one thing: it carries a very strong
> coupling between pages and sc
Jon Baer wrote:
Isn't what you described already in some type of existence with the W3C
SPARQL idea ...
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/
Or do you have an opinion on it?
That's really something very different, and something I'm very skeptical of.
--
Elliotte
__
Isn't what you described already in some type of existence with the
W3C SPARQL idea ...
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/
Or do you have an opinion on it?
- Jon
On Aug 7, 2007, at 5:15 PM, Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
David Krings wrote:
Hans Zaunere wrote:
Agreed - I'm still waiting
David Krings wrote:
Hans Zaunere wrote:
Agreed - I'm still waiting for XSLT to take us by storm. And I keep that
Javascript turned off in my browser, since no web site should depend
on it
being available... right?
Both true. XSLT is indeed an awesome technology. The reason why it
doesn't c
Hans Zaunere lists-at-zaunere.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
I follow you, Hans, but then what about URLs as resource locators?
Your elegant "aliasing a handler or set of URLs to a single URL or
processor" means URLs don't equate to (unique) information resources.
Doesn't that "break"
On 8/7/07, Hans Zaunere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> While it seems like a good idea, it'd probably cause more grief... think of
> all those poor images, CSS, PDFs, JS, static HTML, etc. files out there that
> we assume get served directly, correctly, statically - and quickly - right
> from the f
Hans Zaunere wrote:
Agreed - I'm still waiting for XSLT to take us by storm. And I keep that
Javascript turned off in my browser, since no web site should depend on it
being available... right?
Both true. XSLT is indeed an awesome technology. The reason why it
doesn't catch on is that XML and
> I follow you, Hans, but then what about URLs as resource locators?
> Your elegant "aliasing a handler or set of URLs to a single URL or
> processor" means URLs don't equate to (unique) information resources.
> Doesn't that "break" the web?
The aliasing is happening within the web server to get
Elliotte Harold wrote on Monday, August 06, 2007 6:40 PM:
> David Krings wrote:
> > Elliotte Harold wrote:
> > > Edward Potter wrote:
> > > > h, I have never found this to be a problem. Using
> > > > includes, you can pull in .php code from anywhere, even pages
> > > > with a .php extension
Rob Marscher rmarscher-at-beaffinitive.com |nyphp dev/internal group
use| wrote:
On Aug 6, 2007, at 7:28 PM, inforequest wrote:
For me (a search engine optimizer) the core questions come later...
how does that MVC front controller handle "exceptions" like:
/news/2007 (missing params) -> shou
Bare minimum w/ CakePHP (4 files/scripts: model, controller, view,
route) + provided you have a db with a table called "articles":
1) /models/article.php
public class Article extends AppModel {}
2) /controllers/news_controller.php
public class NewsController extends AppController {
function
On Aug 6, 2007, at 7:28 PM, inforequest wrote:
For me (a search engine optimizer) the core questions come later...
how does that MVC front controller handle "exceptions" like:
/news/2007 (missing params) -> should 301 to default URL like /news/
2007/01/01/ or throw a 404
Unless you have a separ
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Kenneth Downs wrote:
Again, I'm not clear on what you are trying to serve. We probably
have to back up to the beginning and erase the assumption that PHP
has a one-to-one correspondence between a URL (or page) and a PHP
file. Having erased that, we have to ask what ki
Elliotte Harold elharo-at-metalab.unc.edu |nyphp dev/internal group use|
wrote:
Kenneth Downs wrote:
Again, I'm not clear on what you are trying to serve. We probably
have to back up to the beginning and erase the assumption that PHP
has a one-to-one correspondence between a URL (or page) a
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Here's a simple example: a news site backed by a database. URLs like
http://www.example.com/news/2007/07/05
http://www.example.com/news/2007/07/06
http://www.example.com/news/2007/07/07
http://www.example.com/news/2007/07/08
...
return pages which contain that day's headl
Elliotte Harold wrote:
David Krings wrote:
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Edward Potter wrote:
h, I have never found this to be a problem. Using includes, you
can pull in .php code from anywhere, even pages with a .php extension
may be 99.99% html, with a just a single include('foo.php') in it.
Kenneth Downs wrote:
Again, I'm not clear on what you are trying to serve. We probably have
to back up to the beginning and erase the assumption that PHP has a
one-to-one correspondence between a URL (or page) and a PHP file.
Having erased that, we have to ask what kind of content you are tr
Hans Zaunere lists-at-zaunere.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:
Jon Baer wrote on Sunday, August 05, 2007 9:19 PM:
I have to say that after spending a long time w/ Dynamo / Tomcat /
Struts and mod_rewrite that eventually I got down to learning the
routing mechanism of frameworks (MVC
David Krings wrote:
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Edward Potter wrote:
h, I have never found this to be a problem. Using includes, you
can pull in .php code from anywhere, even pages with a .php extension
may be 99.99% html, with a just a single include('foo.php') in it.
Keeps things super strea
On 8/5/07, Elliotte Harold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Surely by now there's a better way? How do I overcome the one file per
> URL assumption that PHP makes?
I've tried at least four different ways around this over the years,
and I use mod_rewrite for everything but trivial apps.
Here are the
On Aug 5, 2007, at 2:42 PM, Hans Zaunere wrote:
AliasMatch /(.*) "/var/www/www.something.com/index.php"
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_alias.html#aliasmatch
I wonder why the major php frameworks don't mention this as an
option? It seems from the documentation that it can't go
in
Elliotte Harold wrote:
I'm considering a simple site that I may design in PHP. PHP is
probably the simplest solution except for one thing: it carries a very
strong coupling between pages and scripts.
This may be implied by examples, but it is simply not true. PHP, like
any other generalized
Jon Baer wrote on Sunday, August 05, 2007 9:19 PM:
> I have to say that after spending a long time w/ Dynamo / Tomcat /
> Struts and mod_rewrite that eventually I got down to learning the
> routing mechanism of frameworks (MVC) and find it to be extremely
> flexible and very well thought out + cou
I have to say that after spending a long time w/ Dynamo / Tomcat /
Struts and mod_rewrite that eventually I got down to learning the
routing mechanism of frameworks (MVC) and find it to be extremely
flexible and very well thought out + could easily replicate a servlet
URI request setup.
h
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Edward Potter wrote:
h, I have never found this to be a problem. Using includes, you
can pull in .php code from anywhere, even pages with a .php extension
may be 99.99% html, with a just a single include('foo.php') in it.
Keeps things super streamlined, and your page
Not everyone cares about search engines indexing unique URLs, but if you
do, you have to consider how the server response codes are generated for
various URLs. Aliasing content under different URLs is akin to asking
the search engines not to index it properly, and/or not to rank it
highly for r
Elliotte Harold wrote on Sunday, August 05, 2007 1:43 PM:
> I'm considering a simple site that I may design in PHP. PHP is
> probably the simplest solution except for one thing: it carries a
> very strong coupling between pages and scripts. As far as I've ever
> been able to tell PHP really, real
We actually do this at my work. I don't have the details to hand, but
it basically involves setting the apache document root to be your actual
script, ie. index.php. That way no matter what url you request you will
always hit that page.
The script then examines the url that was requested to
On Aug 5, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Elliotte Harold wrote:
For the system I'm designing that simply won't work. In Java
servlet environments it's relatively trivial to map one servlet to
an entire directory structure, so that it handles all requests for
all pages within that hierarchy.
Is there a
On August 5, 2007, Elliotte Harold wrote:
> I'm considering a simple site that I may design in PHP. PHP is probably
> the simplest solution except for one thing: it carries a very strong
> coupling between pages and scripts. As far as I've ever been able to
> tell PHP really, really, really wants
Edward Potter wrote:
h, I have never found this to be a problem. Using includes, you
can pull in .php code from anywhere, even pages with a .php extension
may be 99.99% html, with a just a single include('foo.php') in it.
Keeps things super streamlined, and your pages are very readable.
h, I have never found this to be a problem. Using includes, you
can pull in .php code from anywhere, even pages with a .php extension
may be 99.99% html, with a just a single include('foo.php') in it.
Keeps things super streamlined, and your pages are very readable.
:-) ed
On 8/5/07, Ellio
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