Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Tuesday 28 July 2015, Colin Smale wrote: If we can separate the flow direction discussion from the routing, the latter becomes a more generic routing through areas problem which has been discussed before in the context of pedestrian routing. Water flow structure is not only about flow

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Colin Smale
If we can separate the flow direction discussion from the routing, the latter becomes a more generic routing through areas problem which has been discussed before in the context of pedestrian routing. The idea being that it should be possible to construct a routing engine to take you from any

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone Am 27.07.2015 um 21:08 schrieb Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: but have no use as a through route? the water will undoubtedly pass through on its route ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Tuesday 28 July 2015, Colin Smale wrote: Hi Christoph, my suggestion was to clearly separate the subject of water flow from the subject of routing. Whether roads are mostly bidirectional or not is irrelevant I think, as routers have to be able to handle one-way roads anyway.[...] The

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Colin Smale
Before doing the actual routing, the polygon for the whole lake must be preprocessed in various ways: eliminate areas which are too shallow, prohibited, one-way/wrong-way, subject to traffic controls etc. Then the routing algorithm can avoid all these no-go areas, just as if they were physical

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread John Eldredge
In some cases, the navigation path may be different from the named waterway, such as when locks and canals are used to bypass waterfalls or rapids. In the case of reservoirs and lakes, some areas may be too shallow for navigation, so the actual navigation route may not always be the shortest

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Malcolm Herring
On 27/07/2015 20:23, Jochen Topf wrote: This is more about the water flow than about being navigable by a ship. Indeed. Given that the waterway tagging rules cited in the OP applies equally to streams, ditches drains, then the routability clearly does not imply navigability, merely

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Lester Caine
On 28/07/15 10:11, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: but have no use as a through route? the water will undoubtedly pass through on its route Flow management from man made reservoirs may tend to modify that situation. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact -

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Maarten Deen
On 2015-07-28 13:37, Christoph Hormann wrote: On Tuesday 28 July 2015, Colin Smale wrote: Hi Christoph, my suggestion was to clearly separate the subject of water flow from the subject of routing. Whether roads are mostly bidirectional or not is irrelevant I think, as routers have to be able to

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Warin
On 28/07/2015 10:24 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote: On Tuesday 28 July 2015, Maarten Deen wrote: Do you think that hydrological analysis is a wider field of application than water navigation? I was of the opinion that the connection of waterways within OSM was primarily for navigation. That

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Tuesday 28 July 2015, Maarten Deen wrote: Do you think that hydrological analysis is a wider field of application than water navigation? I was of the opinion that the connection of waterways within OSM was primarily for navigation. That certainly depends on your point of view and metric

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Colin Smale
Hi Christoph, my suggestion was to clearly separate the subject of water flow from the subject of routing. Whether roads are mostly bidirectional or not is irrelevant I think, as routers have to be able to handle one-way roads anyway. If I understand it right, edges in routing graphs are often

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-28 Thread Maarten Deen
On 2015-07-27 23:39, Lester Caine wrote: On 27/07/15 20:55, Mike Thompson wrote: I assumed that when the wiki spoke about routable it was referring to the water flow rather than boat/ship/barge traffic. In any event, a routing engine for boats could use the presence of a dam or weir

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-27 Thread Lester Caine
On 27/07/15 19:56, Christoph Hormann wrote: In the case where a stream flows into a reservoir , and then a stream (with the same name) also flows out of that reservoir, should a linear way be drawn through the reservoir to connect the two streams (the reservoir is currently represented by

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-27 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Monday 27 July 2015, Mike Thompson wrote: The wiki states that the linear features representing waterways should connect with other linked waterway features to create a routable network. [1] In the case where a stream flows into a reservoir , and then a stream (with the same name) also

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-27 Thread Jochen Topf
On Mo, Jul 27, 2015 at 08:08:22 +0100, Lester Caine wrote: On 27/07/15 19:56, Christoph Hormann wrote: In the case where a stream flows into a reservoir , and then a stream (with the same name) also flows out of that reservoir, should a linear way be drawn through the reservoir to connect

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-27 Thread Mike Thompson
Although a height difference between in and out might indicate a weir or other obstruction may well indicate that a route is non-navigable? The outflow from a dam may have the same name, but have no use as a through route? This is more about the water flow than about being navigable by

Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - routable network and reservoirs/lakes

2015-07-27 Thread Lester Caine
On 27/07/15 20:55, Mike Thompson wrote: I assumed that when the wiki spoke about routable it was referring to the water flow rather than boat/ship/barge traffic. In any event, a routing engine for boats could use the presence of a dam or weir (combined with the absence of a lock) to deduce