[OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] OSM Uganda Local Chapter application

[Ciarán Staunton]

I wasn't initially going to comment on this except to say that there are
brilliant Ugandan mappers (317 contributed yesterday!). This community has
been super active for several years now, and those folks deserve to have a
chapter to strengthen their organisational efforts. Nevertheless, chapters
should have strong governance arrangements - and those arrangements
should include open membership, community control, recall of Directors, and
transparent ways of knowing that the Directors are acting in the interests
of the community. I can only assume that the Ugandan community are happy to
engage around these issues.

In late 2018 the Ireland OSM community applied for local chapter status
with me as Ireland's liaison on the applicant side. Within that there were
three junctures of 3-5 week email reply delays, and partial replies that
fell short of providing Ireland's community any clear sense of what was
driving the deliberation process in the background. As liaison I was given
the task or guessing at what was in fact happening for reports back
(including the 2019 AGM) Our application didn't appear on osmf meeting
agendas for example. It took from December 2018 to August 2019 to get
through the application process. I would hope that people commenting here
would have the good sense to recognise that a chapter is never frustrated
by substantive engagement on clearly advertised criteria, but it certainly
will be frustrated by poor communication and inexplicable delays.


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[OSM-talk-ie] Bing satellite image replaced

[Ciarán Staunton]

Evolving, so not definitive: However, it looks like the Bing imagery is
gone, what is in its place in much of Ireland is just a repackaged ESRI
globe, of course rectified differently to what was there before. I assume
we will put more updates here as we see what has been done around Ireland.
I assume also that the change is wider than Ireland. The imagery lacks
clarity/sharpness, and having the same image as ESRI globe is hardly
healthy in terms of source diversity. Does anyone know if Bing even had the
courtesy to warn, or consult about this happening, or indeed why the change
took place?




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[OSM-talk-ie] OpenStreetMap Ireland Annual General Meeting

[Ciarán Staunton]

Date for your diary: 27th June 2020 will be the osmIRL annual general
meeting.


The meeting will be virtual, since the Covid-19 threat will still prevent
gatherings of more than 6 people on that date. Subscribers will get a
formal invitation shortly, but other community members are welcome to view
and participate in parts of the meeting. Full details to follow.


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Estimate of number of building=* in Ireland

[Ciarán Staunton]

I don’t understand at all how a community project like osmIRL buildings
could be utterly frustrating, and I wonder about the flipancy of a comment
that the effect is anything like a Tiger import – simply on the basis of
accuracy.



The aim of the task is to have a straightforward activity for people to
work on together, which we haven’t had in a while. Another aim is to have
something that is easy enough to start on as we recruit new people into the
community as contributors. The daily contributions extract shows we have
doubled the contributors to 30. There will be a second phase, when all the
tasks are complete and validated, and there would be even more animations
resolving building use types.



Ireland’s building equals yes tag was 62% of all building objects when the
project started around October 2019 and is 64% only today, was this making
things worse? Admittedly while it increases the number of building equals
yes objects in number, it doesn’t change the proportion, and it completes
the map on a theme the community wanted to go ahead with. The project has a
future phase when there will be more added to the buildings now produced by
this effort.



Right now Kilkenny City 25%, Carlow Town 38% and Waterford City 48% all
have building equals yes tags less than what prevailed on the island at the
outset. In the recent community hangouts and presentations there has been
discussion of techniques already put into practice on how validation
reduces tag generality. JOSM filters as well as a 'Second mapper'
standpoint are blitzing the building equals yes tag before the tasks get
taken down. Nobody seems to think using the filter is hassle to use, or
that to select, scroll and tag numerous buildings – so what have we missed?



Finally, the osm community worldwide has agreed that building equals yes is
not an invalid contribution where the experience level of the mapper is
lower, or the satellite imagery is blurred, or there is a community
decision to map at scale, with planned and committed passes through that
work. Otherwise it wouldn’t exist as a tag, and be the default in the JOSM
buildings plugin. This would be why this tag is 75% of the building objects
in Europe, which are ubiquitous. If this project delivers on a rate much
less than that there ought not to be frustration. There are only two tasks
mapped and validated so far, by the time we finish phase 1 there will be a
lower percentage of building equals yes, so while we can debate the
inaccuracy of the comment about it being akin to a Tiger import, I don't
think that the fact that such an assessment is massively premature needs
much debate at all.


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM at LoveDataWeek 2020 - Maynooth University

[Ciarán Staunton]

This is good news Peter, and good luck with your talk.

Some big scale statutory or state funded re-users are the National
Transport Authority, the IPA, Met Eireann, Irish Seismic Network, and The
Marine Institute. Some big scale commercial re-users are Snapchat,
Ancestry.com. For a list of more of the latter see the wiki site where it
mentions "List of OSM based services".

If you don't mind mentioning it an important point arises for your
audience. OSM is like an ecosystem, there are many fine examples of re-use.
However, without the love and diligence of the OSM community of
contributors, none of these things would be possible.
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[OSM-talk-ie] New Bing aerial imagery

[Ciarán Staunton]

Ok, it looks like the new Bing satellite has image tiles ranging from 16th
August 2018 to 19th September 2019. I can see it in ID and JOSM. The
rectifications seems close to what was there before, happy days..
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[OSM-talk-ie] Mapping at the border

[Ciarán Staunton]

Hi
I was on the road between Omeath Co. Louth and Newry Co. Down on Saturday
and I crossed the United Kingdom border at [19/54.11201/-6.29200] where the
R173 becomes the B79. The road narrows to bridge under which a culverted or
piped stream flows out into Carlingford Lough. I have added images of it to
Mapillary.

There is no scope at this place for a customs point, I can only imagine the
road would close like it was in the 1970s if Brexit proceeds. Building
infrastructure away from the actual crossing point could be abused by
anyone with a mind to do so, because there are numerous ways down to the
water, and up the Slieve Gullion via bohereens, farm drives and so on.

We may have to remap these areas significantly if there are to be suitable
customs infrastructure, road widening and fencing erected there.
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[OSM-talk] Local Chapter application - Ireland

[Ciarán Staunton]

Hi Everyone,
It really is heartening to see the overwhelming positive reaction to OSM
Ireland's chapter application. I am party to this application, but since
there was a discussion I am permitting myself to just be a mapper and
community member in a couple of comments.

On the island of Ireland issue: we did this because mappers from Northern
Ireland were already engaged with us, and we even held a meetup in Belfast.
As a formal structure nobody was going to exclude people who have already
given so much to the informal network that has existed for a decade.

In any event there was detailed consultation with OSMUK who told us: "For
the avoidance of doubt, OSM UK is supportive of the inclusion of Northern
Ireland in OSM Ireland in addition to it's existing inclusion within the
OSM UK defined region." With this level of co-operation already in place
between OSMUK and OSMIRL we could look at having a joint *SOTM* in Belfast
in 2021 or 2022 to commemorate the centennial placement of the border on
the island, and to prove that mappers transcend everything.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Meetup in Maynooth

[Ciarán Staunton]

Hi
Just reminding you all that there is a meetup in *Maynooth this Saturday*
morning.

Sign up here using the eventbrite link: https://bit.ly/2GPVNKM
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[OSM-talk-ie] Yesterday's and the next meetup

[Ciarán Staunton]

Hi Everyone
I really enjoyed the discussion about street imagery and mapillary today
(Saturday) at Tog.Thanks to everyone who made the day happen.

The next meetup will be in the Dún Laoghaire Rathdown Library - a.k.a. The
Lexicon on the 12th of January. Times and content to follow.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Dun%20L#map=19/53.29295/-6.13152
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OpenStreetMap Ireland CLG launch yesterday

[Ciarán Staunton]

Greetings All
On behalf of the board I want to thank you for attending the launch and the
open mic event yesterday.

For the benefit of those that missed it we saw a fantastic look back at the
history of the community from mackerski. dónál went through the legalities
of the company set up, how we got to where we are now and that we will be
formally applying for chapter status with osmf. I myself (debigc) let
everyone know what to expect in term of activity for the next year, as we
bring the participation, connection, visibility and exchange to the next
level.

The open mics were all really interesting too, to summarise them we would
have to point to the diversity of platforms, motivations, focus, interest
that is out there in the broader community. The wealth of the asset that is
openstreetmap is the wealth of the knowledge you are all putting into it.
As all the speakers at the start said in one way or another pulling
together and being more coherent as a community is where we are navigating
to right now.

Keep up the great work everyone!
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[OSM-talk-ie] OpenStreetMap Ireland CLG launch

[Ciarán Staunton]

As most of you know we are creating an OpenStreetMap Ireland Company
Limited by Guarantee in order to have the necessary legal entity to go
forward as a OpenStreetMap chapter. The company comprises of Directors who
are legally "subscribers" of the company and are responsible for its
adherence to all regulations as a trading entity. The launch of the company
also allows the community to expand, for bigger venues to be used, and for
us to brand things so that we promote work that has been done at a smaller
scale to a wider participating audience.

To move forward we are launching this company in Maynooth this Saturday the
20th October at 12 noon. The event will be formal for a few minutes, and
then we want to open the floor for an open mic to allow those who are
present speak about what they like mapping. To find further details please
look at the events link on the openstreetmap.ie website and reserve your
place on the eventbrite ticketing thingymajigger. Hope to see loads of you
there!
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[OSM-talk-ie] Ireland's border

[Ciarán Staunton]

I don't recall seeing a mention of this here before, apologies if it was
and I missed it.

I have found a book titled "The Rule of the Land" authored by Garret Carr.
He basically thought it would be a good idea to walk (and canoe) all 299km
of the Irish border. Along the way he found the 208 "official" crossings
acknowledged with the bias towards roads. He also documented 77 other
crossings, even though some are accessed on private land.

Should we ask him for ODBL and see if his features can be added? Some are
stiles, gang planks and stepping stones.

http://www.eolasmagazine.ie/infinite-links/;>
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM IRL Annual General Meeting

[Ciarán Staunton]

Rory, yes... snow blinded . The sentence should read as:  "The DAC
structure is limiting in the scope of things the company may want to do
which is why DAC is not recommended."

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 8:57 AM, Rory McCann <r...@technomancy.org> wrote:

> Hi Ciarán
>
> Good to get proper legal details. Good job. 
>
> On 28/02/18 22:18, Ciarán Staunton wrote:
>
>> The DAC structure is limiting in the scope of things the company may want
>> to do which is why CLG is not recommended.
>>
>
> Did you word this the right way? 
>
> The OpenStreetMap Foundation is a Company limited by guarantee as well. In
> the UK, OSMUK is a "Community Interest Company", but I think that's a new
> legal structure in the UK https://osmuk.org/become-member/
>
> It's great to see all of yous getting the ball rolling on this. 
>
> Rory
>
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[OSM-talk-ie] OSM IRL Annual General Meeting

[Ciarán Staunton]

Hi All
I am sorry if this is a longer than usual message and I will try to be
brief as there is a lot of ground to cover. And 3 questions at the end.

I have secured (free of charge) the services of Robert Tallent of Synergy
Group. He is a sound person, he has a lot of experience of non-profit and
charity company formation, and provides advice on registration and
compliance for a range of different clients but usually small and
formative. His website is available if your websearch for his name with
"Synergy".

As regards the conversations I have had with Bob I gave him the following
brief (which was what was agreed at the last):
- Which structure will protect the members and directors against legally
liability, and will share the limited liability equally?
- Which structure will closely match the requirements of the Foundation to
be non-for-profit?
- Which structure will allow for the eventual registration as a charity
(enabling donations)
- Which structure might in the future enable seeking a grant or employing
someone

Bob has outlined to me that a Limited Partnership is a dangerous option
unless the lead partner is also a salaried executive director. The optimal
structure to satisfy all these is a *Company Limited by Guarantee (CLG)*.
The CLG once registered can then later seek charitable status from the
regulator, and is also free to apply for grants or other funds. The
understanding of non-for-profit with CLGs is simply to monitor that profit
seeking is not the main objective of the majority of activities, and that
when profits arise there is a plan to re-invest them. The DAC structure is
limiting in the scope of things the company may want to do which is why CLG
is not recommended.


   1. What I would like to clear up before the AGM is whether the members
   of this mailing list wish the nominated group to proceed to form the
   company before the AGM, or post the AGM. It may shape how the meeting takes
   place.
   2. Also Bob Tallent cannot attend on the 10th March and I think it would
   be better to have him there to facilitate questions. His real value to us
   is advising on what we need to assemble on us. Would the members be ok if
   we postpone the AGM until the 24th? I have checked with Tadeusz and it
   appears that Tog is available on that date.
   3. Also, can those guys who were working on a constitution and memos and
   articles bring these to some advanced stage and propose them for the AGM?

I'm sorry again for the long email. Please speak up on all three. I know
you are all snowbound, so no excuses :)

Ciarán
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] DIT study of Balbriggan

[Ciarán Staunton]

 affect your project. Sometimes people react to this with "We need
> the data in this form for our project, stop changing/deleting it". But
> if the data is "wrong" (by OSM standards) then tough. This could be a
> problem for a project, so they should (i) be aware of it and (ii) have
> some idea of what they should do if this happens.
>
> The other thing that could help is for the leader and members to post to
> this mailing list, or try to get engaged in the OSM community. OSM is
> both a free geo-database, and a community of people who want to create a
> free geo-database. Engagement with the community could help them learn a
> lot more, get questions answered, get help, etc.
>
> It would be great to spruce up data in some places, and (hopefully)
> spawn more mappers!
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Rory
>
> 
> ¹ http://neis-one.org/2017/09/review-requests-osm/
> ² https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organized_Editing_Policy
> ³ https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/09/22/dwg-survey-on-orga
> nised-editing/
>
>
> On 27/09/17 00:48, Ciarán Staunton wrote:
>
>> Dublin Institute of Technology are running a semester long class study of
>> Balbriggan. This is with their undergrads B.Sc in Environmental Management
>> and Spatial Planning. They have decided to use openstreetmap for
>> Balbriggan, but obviously it would need a lot of detail added to get the
>> particular data they want.
>>
>> I have talked to their teachers and advised them on getting JOSM into
>> their
>> lab machines to do some desktop mapping initially. However, they want to
>> also survey so I have recommended Mapillary, Street Complete, OSM tracker,
>> and maps.me... as well as a paper solution with field papers.
>>
>> Has anyone else heard of a localised effort like this? I think the class
>> has 20 students.
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[OSM-talk-ie] Portmarnock Community School and OpenStreetMap

[Ciarán Staunton]

Just a quick shout to the list about Portmarnock Community School who are
Sage Global Entrepreneurship World Champions 2017. The champions are
decided after a World Cup competition. This involved 32 teams explaining
their projects, and making competitive pitches. The whole thing was based
on OpenStreetMap of course re-using the #MapLesotho data they had eagerly
helped to create. They are just back in Ireland with an impressive looking
trophy, and a small bit of prize money which they are donating to a school
in Lesotho. The thing I liked most about this was they made their entry was
they included different types of outcome in the data. Their project is
called Global Citizens Mapping the Future. You can follow that handle on
twitter or see a write up on MapLesotho - dot - com (sorry for the lack of
hyperlink).
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 7

[Ciarán Staunton]

Greetings

To answer Dave's last question first, *I'm in to help in whatever way
possible*. I can attend any of the dates suggested, and  I can arrange an
appropriate venue for them to take place if that is needed. I've been
around the process of setting up companies etc. and served as a company
secretary before (though I can't ultimately be that for OSM).

I think Martín's comment is a good concern to have. However, I believe that
OSMF wants local chapters formally set up, composed of responsible groups
in each country to make accountable decisions about how the maps of each
country evolve, and to have oversight of licencing, manage upload efforts,
interpret increasing sources of open data and organizing truly OPEN (yes I
just shouted) meetings that are well publicised, and held in appropriate
venues to allow lots of different map stakeholders attend. I think that you
have hit the nail on the head in terms of the sequencing. A healthier
sequence of informal meetings drawing in people who are interested is a
good way to *lead in*, but the other thing is inevitable. Not everyone has
to go forward for participating on the structure, but anyone who does would
be accountable to everyone else.

Back to what Dave said. My forty two cents on the issues set out at the top
are:
- Groups like this need monthly or bi-monthly networking, bi-annual speaker
sessions and an AGM and anything else is based on energy. Mostly I think
the informality doesn't assist the activities members have away from the
table. I find myself teaching OSM to schools, without only two or three
members interested in that experience. Brian gave a super talk to the
Geneology Society about boundaries which he hasn't had a chance to do for
us, Dave has headed off to talk to the OGP, Dermot is doing propeller stuff
... literally.. you get the picture. These talks should be between
ourselves initially, with a feeling for what is then used to engage others.
Each SOTM conference concludes that face to face engagement is key for
success, that then goes outwards and invites new people in... each national
group does it... Ireland has no good reason to stand outside that.

- The new mapper engagement needs a schools/colleges exposure and some sort
of recruitment plan, with a sense of how particular skills and experiences
are constantly required to boost the community. Obviously we need to be
present in the sector with more regular participation at IRLOGI and that
sort of forum. There are also professional bodies for Engineers, Planners,
and Geographers who would fling their doors open if we could supply this
sort of engagement. There are also NGOs who would love to have a group to
liaise with, and Point here is that we need to increase the engagement in
these sectors, and we cant do that with the present structure in my
opinion. These are the things that increase the numbers of contributors and
ultimately the usefulness of the map.

- Getting out of Dublin is necessary if there's demand outside Dublin. I
think Maynooth is a good venue as a compromise for the west (don't laugh
its pragmatic). I think you cant get a compromise for the likes of Cork
other than to decamp down to Cork but only if there's demand. I don't think
its unreasonable to use something easy like Meetups or Eventbrite to
confirm attendance and ensure those who end up travelling are travelling
with good cause, and its easy for people to cancel right up until the last
second. That hasn't always been the case.

I don't mean to sound negative here, nor pat anyone on the back.
Considering the great work done over the years before I got involved
there's plenty worthwhile to talk about and co-ordinate our efforts on, and
that is befitting a proper level of organisation to support the goals
raised. None of the things Dave mentioned are difficult to do, they just
take a little time and consideration.

Looking forward to other views.
















On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 1:00 PM,  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>1. OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Dave Corley)
>2. Re: OSM Ireland chapter - reboot (Martín Ferrari)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 02:52:23 +0100
> From: Dave Corley 
> To: Discussion of Open Streetmap in Ireland
> 
> Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 4

[Ciarán Staunton]

   1. Go Map app on Apple iPad
I had a shot of it on my son's iPad (I don't personally use Apple things).
It seems to me that the tagging dialogues are easier to use that the fiddly
equivalent on maps.me. I could also see and resolve notes in my area which
I thought was handy. The working offline is great so long as you upload the
changes when back online. I don't think that happened automatically.


On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 1:00 PM,  wrote:

> Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to
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>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Go Map app on Apple iPad (Brian Hollinshead)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 20:28:42 +0100
> From: Brian Hollinshead 
> To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland 
> Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Go Map app on Apple iPad
> Message-ID:
>  d...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Wonder if any of you have used the Go Map app. on an Apple iPad and if so,
> how good you found it please?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> End of Talk-ie Digest, Vol 99, Issue 4
> **
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[OSM-talk-ie] Mark the 13th Birthday of openstreetmap at the Lesotho embassy

[Ciarán Staunton]

Hello List

By the kind invitation of the Charge' d' Affaires at of the Embassy of the
Kingdom of Lesotho in Dublin
, Friends of
Lesotho will join the rest of the world at the Embassy to #MapLesotho next
Sunday the 13th August. The plan is to meet at 12.00 noon and map, talk and
have fun until about 5.30. There's a board room where a max of 16 people
will fit, so its literally first-come, first served.

If you wish to come along please get in touch with Mr. Pheko at the Embassy
to book your place: k.ph...@lesothoembassy.ie

Hope to see you there!
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