Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 16.08.2016 11:45, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson napisał(a):


As for "no panic" then we've got several projects cooking in Iceland
after a beneficial annual meeting but we've not launched them yet
because we don't want to fragment any more than strictly needed so the
forum issue has been plaguing us. We could set up our own forum and go
from there but that is counter-productive in the long run.


Jóhannes, "Users: Iceland" subforum is finally created:

https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=90

What's more important, the whole forum is now migrated to a server under 
OSMF control, so it's pretty safe now:


https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=613559#p613559

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Microgamer]

As Hakuch already says: The project "new server" will take some time.
I don't know what all has to be done, to fire up the server, set the admins 
into position etc.
I think that we should go with an other forum, because fluxbb seems not to be 
that easy to handle.
Then all software we need has to be installed on the server. Then the forum 
itself comes onto the server.
This is the time when we have to have a template which matches the OSM style. 
Several plugins have to been written/installed. E.g. the OAuth-Plugin.

In general for the server i would expect that we have 3 admins and a 3rd 
organisation (OSMF) with credentials for the server, the database and the 
forum-administration. So this case cannot happen. More rights for the mods are 
possible as well :DD

So it's a bit of work and i think we should start as fast as possible with this 
project.
With the freeze-time sb has already said, Iceland has to wait at least 4 weeks 
for their forum to be installed. So we don't have that much time.
I assume that some organisation, probably the OSMF, has to put the admins into 
power. So sb, whe knows the system better than me, should probably write the 
procedure here.

An other thing I don't understand... Why do we have to wait, when the current 
admin didn't answer the question from iceland for some month already?

RegardsMicro


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 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted
Local Time: 16. August 2016 12:40 PM
UTC Time: 16. August 2016 10:40
From: dan...@xn--ko-wla.pl
To: talk@openstreetmap.org

W dniu 16.08.2016 12:04, Hakuch napisał(a):

> as this new-server-software project will take some time. How do you
> think about hijacking another country-subforum? There are a lot where
> no
> one is active with only very few posts. I would accept it as temporary
> solution.

No need to invade Uruguay or Venezuela (both low volume with last
activity in March)... ;-P I think general chat is the best place to
start, since it is also low volume and may be used for things which have
no better place to be discussed - especially with subjects like
"[Iceland] National parks":

http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=9

If Lambertus ever wake up, it will be just a matter of pushing them to a
new subforum, so nothing would be lost and no fragmentation will occur.
If not, it will still be easy to do on a new server.

It would be a pity to not start community work just because there is no
optimal place!

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 16.08.2016 12:04, Hakuch napisał(a):


as this new-server-software project will take some time. How do you
think about hijacking another country-subforum? There are a lot where 
no

one is active with only very few posts. I would accept it as temporary
solution.


No need to invade Uruguay or Venezuela (both low volume with last 
activity in March)... ;-P I think general chat is the best place to 
start, since it is also low volume and may be used for things which have 
no better place to be discussed - especially with subjects like 
"[Iceland] National parks":


http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=9

If Lambertus ever wake up, it will be just a matter of pushing them to a 
new subforum, so nothing would be lost and no fragmentation will occur. 
If not, it will still be easy to do on a new server.


It would be a pity to not start community work just because there is no 
optimal place!


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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Hakuch]

On 16.08.2016 11:45, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
> Þann 16.08.2016 00:24, Nicolás Alvarez reit:
>> ArchiveTeam.org is already doing this HTML backup.

> With access to forums you only see after login?

The scraping is not about a html-backup. What we would need for
transfering the old posts into a new forum software is the raw DB Data.
If we cant get them from the server itself, we have to reproduce it from
the html view. My script is able to do that.

> As for "no panic" then we've got several projects cooking in Iceland
> after a beneficial annual meeting but we've not launched them yet
> because we don't want to fragment any more than strictly needed so the
> forum issue has been plaguing us. We could set up our own forum and go
> from there but that is counter-productive in the long run.

as this new-server-software project will take some time. How do you
think about hijacking another country-subforum? There are a lot where no
one is active with only very few posts. I would accept it as temporary
solution.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Jóhannes Birgir Jensson]

Þann 16.08.2016 00:24, Nicolás Alvarez reit:

2016-08-15 21:13 GMT-03:00 Daniel Koć :
If we have no current backup available, I think it would be good to 
have a
script harvesting all the entries even just via plain HTML, with 
publishing
date, username and user id, so we could recreate it more or less on 
the new
server. Old backup may have some value, but most of the time fresh 
content

is what really matters.


ArchiveTeam.org is already doing this HTML backup.


With access to forums you only see after login?

As for "no panic" then we've got several projects cooking in Iceland 
after a beneficial annual meeting but we've not launched them yet 
because we don't want to fragment any more than strictly needed so the 
forum issue has been plaguing us. We could set up our own forum and go 
from there but that is counter-productive in the long run.


We would like the matter to be resolved shortly, pumping up enthusiasm 
and belief in projects is hard work and harder when the organizational 
tools we wanted to adhere to are broken (in this case in a logistical 
more than technical way).


--Jóhannes

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Nicolás Alvarez]

2016-08-15 21:13 GMT-03:00 Daniel Koć :
> If we have no current backup available, I think it would be good to have a
> script harvesting all the entries even just via plain HTML, with publishing
> date, username and user id, so we could recreate it more or less on the new
> server. Old backup may have some value, but most of the time fresh content
> is what really matters.

ArchiveTeam.org is already doing this HTML backup.

-- 
Nicolás

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 16.08.2016 0:42, Simon Poole napisał(a):
May I suggest that switching to panic mode is a bit premature. 
Lambertus

last contribution to OSM is just over half a year old, and there are
other ways to contact people than just e-mail.


Let me remind my own words: "I've just found that last action on report 
he took on 2016-07-11 21:57:05, so he's not entirely absent." (this 
record is now invisible, since only 10 last actions are listed for 
moderators). Yet he didn't answer anything on the forum or on the list - 
strange, isn't it? No mail contact since few months. And there's still 
no forum created for Iceland, even if it's quite easy to do and probably 
important for this community.


I don't consider it a panic mode - that would be "forum is not working 
anymore, we need a new server NOW!". It will take some time to make a 
transition (like weeks or months) and it's always better to start before 
anything bad will happen, so this is probably the right moment.


If we have no current backup available, I think it would be good to have 
a script harvesting all the entries even just via plain HTML, with 
publishing date, username and user id, so we could recreate it more or 
less on the new server. Old backup may have some value, but most of the 
time fresh content is what really matters.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Hakuch]

On 16.08.2016 00:42, Simon Poole wrote:
> May I suggest that switching to panic mode is a bit premature. Lambertus
> last contribution to OSM is just over half a year old, and there are
> other ways to contact people than just e-mail.

On 16.08.2016 00:59, Michał Brzozowski wrote:>
> Can anybody launch these "other ways" now?

I talked to him in april about that problem and he was thankful that
there is discussions about "how to go forward" with the forum. He wanted
to respond some days later but didn't. I tried to contact him again
several times. Yesterday I tried again by wiki-discussion, osm message,
email and even changeset comment. Iam still hopeful, that he will answer
and would like to wait two more weeks and don't blow the topic to big
until then. Either he will answer, or he won't. If there are any other
ways to contact him, that would be great.
But after that two weeks (its more than 4 month then), I think its not
premature to discuss about a plan B.

On 16.08.2016 00:42, Simon Poole wrote:
> Further I've heard that some people are **attempting to scrape the whole
> forum** which is likely not the best thing to do if we want the site to
> stay up (Grant isn't here but iirc there was at least an oldish backup
> somewhere).

Scraping wouldnt hurt the server if its done over a longer periode of
time. Anyway, its just a possibility that I mentioned. Its not a plan,
and Iam not "attempting to scrape the whole forum". But it could be
done, if there would be a new server and software and we still dont have
any answer or access.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Michał Brzozowski]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:42 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> May I suggest that switching to panic mode is a bit premature. Lambertus
> last contribution to OSM is just over half a year old, and there are
> other ways to contact people than just e-mail.

But it's so irresponsible to just vanish. I mean, what did he think?
If you know you can't do your job for that or another reason, you at
least let people know to see what can be done.

Even few months can be too much. Imagine some new potent vulnerability
surfaced. One of the best scenarios would be a database leak, but
things could be much worse than that, like serving malware to users.

Can anybody launch these "other ways" now?

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Simon Poole]

May I suggest that switching to panic mode is a bit premature. Lambertus
last contribution to OSM is just over half a year old, and there are
other ways to contact people than just e-mail.

Further I've heard that some people are attempting to scrape the whole
forum which is likely not the best thing to do if we want the site to
stay up (Grant isn't here but iirc there was at least an oldish backup
somewhere).

Simon



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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Hakuch]

On 15.08.2016 20:53, Peter Schmidt wrote:
> Hey there,
> 
> if we can't get an admin account on the current forum, we really have to
> setup a new one.

I still hope that we get an answer from Lambertus..

> The most complicated thing would be finding an suitable software, which
> matches our preferences.

Thats apart from the admin credentials problem the big question.

> The biggest problem would be the big data loss. Without an admin we can't
> dump the db and without an db-dump we can't restore the old/existing data.

I might have a solution for this problem. I recently wrote a wrapper for
an osm project. I know that many people dont like wrappers, but it
actually works fine and would be admissible if we cant get the server
access.

> Simplest solution is to fire up the server, find some admins (I would apply
> for this position, because I already administrate some servers and
> systems), 

nice

> talk about the software and get this new thing running as fast as
> possible. Everyone would have to reregister himself if we don't get an dump.

best would be to use the osm oauth, but thats a more specific question

> So i apply for this job. But I won't do it alone.

Same for me, as I have said :) But Iam unsure how to start here. How
could we find a software and decide to use it? Who can decide which
persons are allowed to admin it?

hakuch


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[OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Microgamer]

Hey there,

if we can't get an admin account on the current forum, we really have to setup 
a new one.
The most complicated thing would be finding an suitable software, which matches 
our preferences.
The biggest problem would be the big data loss. Without an admin we can't dump 
the db and without an db-dump we can't restore the old/existing data.
Simplest solution is to fire up the server, find some admins (I would apply for 
this position, because I already administrate some servers and systems), talk 
about the software and get this new thing running as fast as possible. Everyone 
would have to reregister himself if we don't get an dump.
So i apply for this job. But I won't do it alone.

Regards
Peter

P.S. Hope that pipermail now accepts my mail...

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Peter Schmidt]

Hey there,

if we can't get an admin account on the current forum, we really have to
setup a new one.
The most complicated thing would be finding an suitable software, which
matches our preferences.
The biggest problem would be the big data loss. Without an admin we can't
dump the db and without an db-dump we can't restore the old/existing data.
Simplest solution is to fire up the server, find some admins (I would apply
for this position, because I already administrate some servers and
systems), talk about the software and get this new thing running as fast as
possible. Everyone would have to reregister himself if we don't get an dump.
So i apply for this job. But I won't do it alone.

Regards
Peter

P.S. Simply ignore my emailaddress. It's for mailing lists etc and it was
made by a friend. My real address is microgamer [a] protonmail.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[mmd]

Hi,

Am 15.08.2016 um 16:43 schrieb Tom Hughes:


> 
> Part of the problem as I understand it is that the current site is
> running a customised code base with various patches that have never been
> passed upstream.
> 

back in November 2014, I worked with Lambertus on applying some of those
custom changes to the then current FluxBB 1.5.7. I still have them
around on Github [1]. Basically, it's a different authentication
mechanism and some UI enhancements like quick quoting, emoticons.

Somehow, those UI enhancements didn't survive the last forum update
(around Q4/2015). I believe one of the German forum moderators was
involved in that most recent update activity, but I may be wrong here.

According to my inbox, the last email conversations with Lambertus were
also in Nov 2014.

[1]
https://github.com/mmd-osm/openstreetmap-forum/commits/OpenStreetMap_forum.1.5.7



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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Tom Hughes]

On 15/08/16 15:20, Daniel Koć wrote:

W dniu 15.08.2016 15:15, Tom Hughes napisał(a):


Lambertus is the server administrator. There is literally nobody else
that can help you as far as I know.


1. Are we aware of any other part of OSM infrastructure vulnerable to
such "hit by bus" situation?


No, the forums are unusual in that they were an existing external 
service that we simply gave a new name to by pointing an osm.org name at 
the relevant address.


Pretty much everything else is run by the main operations team.


2. Do we have a place where we could install the replacement in case the
forum stops being usable - or just to make "subforums" for countries
which wants to use this communication channel?


We made a machine available ages ago for the forum to be moved onto OSM 
hosted hardware but it has never happened.


That machine still exists. I think it is turned off right now but we 
could turn it on again. I don't think we would want to run a parallel 
infrastructure though so it would be a question of somebody doing the 
work to move things over or of starting from scratch which would still 
require somebody to do the work to find and configure some suitable 
software.


Part of the problem as I understand it is that the current site is 
running a customised code base with various patches that have never been 
passed upstream.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 15.08.2016 15:15, Tom Hughes napisał(a):


Lambertus is the server administrator. There is literally nobody else
that can help you as far as I know.


1. Are we aware of any other part of OSM infrastructure vulnerable to 
such "hit by bus" situation?


2. Do we have a place where we could install the replacement in case the 
forum stops being usable - or just to make "subforums" for countries 
which wants to use this communication channel?


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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Hakuch]

On 15.08.2016 15:15, Tom Hughes wrote:
> Lambertus is the server administrator. There is literally nobody else
> that can help you as far as I know.

mh true: daresel07.oxilion.nl.

Only solution could be to set up a new forum and change the
forum.openstreetmap.org target. Thats not what I would prefer to do.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Tom Hughes]

On 15/08/16 13:57, Hakuch wrote:


I again tried to contact Lambertus using different channels. I propose,
if we dont get any answers within two weeks (Iam trying to contact him
since april) we should ask the server administration to get the admin
credentials.


Lambertus is the server administrator. There is literally nobody else 
that can help you as far as I know.


Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Hakuch]

I again tried to contact Lambertus using different channels. I propose,
if we dont get any answers within two weeks (Iam trying to contact him
since april) we should ask the server administration to get the admin
credentials.

However, there needs to be people who would like to take over the
responsibility. Even if its only temporary. I would do it, as I hope to
have some free time from september, but I wont like to do it alone. I
would prefer a team of three persons.

On 16.07.2016 12:46, Daniel Koć wrote:
> W dniu 15.07.2016 0:42, Michał Brzozowski napisał(a):
>> Somebody also tried to contact Lambertus to no avail, asking for
>> creation of users:Iceland
>> http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=55089
> 
> It's not created yet, however (as a forum moderator) I've just found
> that last action on report he took on 2016-07-11 21:57:05, so he's not
> entirely absent. He's just hard to contact, we don't know what's going
> on and who could act instead of him, which is still bad enough for me.
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 15.07.2016 0:42, Michał Brzozowski napisał(a):

Somebody also tried to contact Lambertus to no avail, asking for
creation of users:Iceland
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=55089


It's not created yet, however (as a forum moderator) I've just found 
that last action on report he took on 2016-07-11 21:57:05, so he's not 
entirely absent. He's just hard to contact, we don't know what's going 
on and who could act instead of him, which is still bad enough for me.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Michał Brzozowski]

Somebody also tried to contact Lambertus to no avail, asking for
creation of users:Iceland
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=55089

Michał

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 12:24 AM, Daniel Koć  wrote:
> W dniu 14.07.2016 23:46, Hakuch napisał(a):
>
>> did you try to contact him by mail? I had last contact in april and
>> could try again
>
>
> Last time it was in September 2015, so not lately. =} Please, try again and
> let us know.
>
> I'm glad at least we have spam protection working, which was a big issue he
> managed to do. However if it's just one person dealing with forum, I think
> we have a problem - if not now, then in the future.
>
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 14.07.2016 23:46, Hakuch napisał(a):


did you try to contact him by mail? I had last contact in april and
could try again


Last time it was in September 2015, so not lately. =} Please, try again 
and let us know.


I'm glad at least we have spam protection working, which was a big issue 
he managed to do. However if it's just one person dealing with forum, I 
think we have a problem - if not now, then in the future.


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[OSM-talk] Forum admin(s) wanted

[Daniel Koć]

Hi,

It seems that Lambertus, the admin of OSM forum, is not accessible for 
some time:


http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=54959

Does anybody know what's going on and if there's another forum admin who 
can be contacted instead of him?


Nothing bad happened, only some annoyances to be solved, I just like to 
know if the community still has the control over this part of the 
project infrastructure.


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