Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Imre Samu wrote: > Hi Christian, > > As I read OKFN article [1] about BANO project ( November 17, 2014 ) > It's not perfectly clear to me what it is the BANO license ? ( only ODBL or > Dual licensed ? ) BANO is ODbL only. The article you refer is about anothe

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Hi Christian, As I read OKFN article [1] about BANO project ( November 17, 2014 ) It's not perfectly clear to me what it is the BANO license ? ( only ODBL or Dual licensed ? ) from the text [1] : Q:"The reached agreement includes a dual license framework. You can reuse the data for free und

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Hi Christian, (shortening the last message to comment on some parts only) Am 24.05.2014 16:04, schrieb Christian Quest: > BANO is not designed to be used as an import source for OSM. > It uses sources (opendata, cadastre) that can be imported in OSM. > These sources have been used over the past y

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

2014-05-24 12:58 GMT+02:00 Peter Wendorff : > Hi Christian, > The BANO data is licensed under ODbl, but the database does not conform > to the Contributor terms, right? > > That's why importing or adding it to OSM is not possible IMHO. > > BANO is not designed to be used as an import source for O

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Peter We just had this discussion, and as was pointed out during it, it -is- possible to import ODbL licensed data (assuming that all the other boxes wrt imports have been ticked) from a legal point of view with respect to the CTs. This does not imply that it is desirable or not in a more genera

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Hi, On 05/24/2014 11:57 AM, Christian Quest wrote: > It would be really great if this dataset could be added to Nominatim to > extend its geocoding capabilities in France where we only have around 2M > addresses currently. I think that Nominatim already has a built-in process where you can take T

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Hi Christian, The BANO data is licensed under ODbl, but the database does not conform to the Contributor terms, right? That's why importing or adding it to OSM is not possible IMHO. Adding it to (the osm installation of) nominatim on the other hand is a bad idea, I think: IMHO nominatim.openstree

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

I'm happy to announce that we have finished our first building phase of the BANO (Base d'Adresses Nationale Ouverte) the first french adresses dataset available under an open license (ODbL). It contains data from: - OSM - available opendata datasets - automatically collected cadastre data The fir

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 16/05/2014 12:36, Simon Poole wrote: It is likely that the LWG will be providing a clarification on the matter at hand soon (Paul has been doing some work on this over the last couple of weeks). We are now putting the finishing touches to that and I hope that I'll be able to release it within

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 1:21 PM, andrzej zaborowski wrote: > That's not true and it has been clarified by the LWG even before the > license change process ended. You comply with the CTs if the data you > upload is compatible with the current license (ODbL) and otherwise you > accept that what yo

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 16/05/2014 13:24, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: The Contributor Terms especially does not require agreement with the terms of "one or more of the following licences: ODbL 1.0 for the database and DbCL 1.0 for the individual contents of the database; CC-BY-SA 2.0; or such other free and open licen

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 16/05/2014 13:02, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: the option to change the license into some other free and open license is current, it is not in the future Yes indeed - agreement with the eventuality of a re-licensing process is what section 3. of the Contributor Terms amounts to. But nowhere

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 16 May 2014 12:03, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > So basically you can only import data that is compatible with ODbL and/or > cc-by-sa 2.0 and which can later be relicensed. According to the CTs it > would seem as if you could also contribute cc-by-sa 2.0-only data, which is > in my understanding

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Jean-Marc Liotier schrieb: > Could you please elaborate a bit about why you think that the data > produced by the project "will not be mapped in a clean manner" ? My assumption is, that for data mapped by me could be relicenced with the 2/3 majority even if I'm allready dead. This assumption wou

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

2014-05-16 12:44 GMT+02:00 Jean-Marc Liotier : > While of course the contributor terms are governed by English law, I would > like to cite Article 2 of the French Code Civil: "Legislation provides only > for the future; it has no retrospective operation". It was written since > 1803 and still appl

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 16/05/2014 12:32, Peter Barth wrote: And not only that: As noted earlier, you're importing data that will not be mapped in a clean manner again, as the data is allready there due to the dubious import. Could you please elaborate a bit about why you think that the data produced by the projec

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 16/05/2014 12:03, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-05-16 11:42 GMT+02:00 Jean-Marc Liotier >: As it stands now, there is nothing that prevents anyone from contributing ODbL-licensed data into an ODbL-licensed database. I agree with Peter here, there is so

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

It is likely that the LWG will be providing a clarification on the matter at hand soon (Paul has been doing some work on this over the last couple of weeks). It should be further noted that any ODbL licensed data that somebody wants included in OSM would have to go through the same process as any

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Hi, Jean-Marc Liotier schrieb: > But this horse has been beaten to death already - GPL vs. BSD redux > all over again... You are making it a question of licences, too. If you insist to compare it to software, you'd have to compare it with the "Contributor License Agreement" (CLA¹) as required

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

2014-05-16 11:42 GMT+02:00 Jean-Marc Liotier : > As it stands now, there is nothing that prevents anyone from contributing > ODbL-licensed data into an ODbL-licensed database. I agree with Peter here, there is something that can make you think twice about importing ODbL licensed data: the CTs.

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 16/05/2014 11:03, Simon Poole wrote: Somehow I suspect that the proponents of "screw the future" (aka lets tie the hands of every future OSM contributor) simply don't have enough imagination. [..] That is one way to look at it. Others might rather see it as preventing our community assets b

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Somehow I suspect that the proponents of "screw the future" (aka lets tie the hands of every future OSM contributor) simply don't have enough imagination. For me it is a distinct possibility that in 10 years from now Nokia/here and Tomtom will be long gone, and only google and OSM will still be p

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

I agree that it's unlikely to drop the share-alike clause in future. But nevertheless there may be another license, and this has to be possible even for imports. In fact, third data sources must agree to be published under ODBL (as that's the current license) and the owner has in fact to agree wit

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: > We are not going to comply with hypothetical licenses that may or may > not appear in the future. +1 We already get feedbacks from contributors refusing to change the "share-alike" condition. And I cannot imagine that OSM will forbid ex

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 05/16/2014 02:19 AM, Tobias Knerr wrote: >> or such other free and open >> licence (for example, http://www.opendefinition.org/okd/) as may from >> time to time be chosen by a vote of the OSMF membership and approved by >> at least a 2/3 majority vote of active contributors. ) > This is the rele

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 15.05.2014 19:57, THEVENON Julien wrote: > According to CT terms ( cf below ) I assume that a new licence should > maintain the share-alike of ODBL I believe you are misunderstanding that paragraph of the CT. The license needs to be free and open, but there are many licenses that qualify - incl

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Hi, THEVENON Julien wrote: > To be completely sure to understand you point of view, I will try > to rephrase it, please correct me if I`m wrong: > You consider that we should completely stop to use any open data > sources available in the world because in the future the > community will perhaps d

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

De : Simon Poole That is completely incorrect, there was never any Australian government CC by-SA data in OSM. The data in question was licensed CC by which required permission from the respective offices that attribution via our website was acceptable, the permission

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Le 15/05/2014 18:57, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : Share alike licensed data should IMHO not be imported into osm because it makes another license change practically impossible (at least not without data loss, and unfortunately not only the originally imported data but also everything built o

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Am 15.05.2014 19:57, schrieb THEVENON Julien: > > > If I remember well Australian government didn`t agree to mirgate the > data they provided from CC-by-SA to ODBL so this is not so simple > > That is completely incorrect, there was never any Australian government CC by-SA data in OSM. The data in

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

If share-alike is a problem for you, stop contributing to OSM, start you own non share-alike project, it's that simple. Good luck 2014-05-15 20:08 GMT+02:00 THEVENON Julien : > > * De :* Martin Koppenhoefer > > * * Share alike licensed data should IMHO not be imported into osm > becaus

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

De : Martin Koppenhoefer Share alike licensed data should IMHO not be imported into osm because it makes another license change practically impossible (at least not without data loss, and unfortunately not only the originally imported data but also everything built on it). H

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

2014-05-15 15:11 GMT+02:00 Tobias Knerr : > On 14.05.2014 11:16, Christian Quest wrote: > > The resulting dataset will be under ODbL (because of OSM data and also > > many opendata sets are also under ODbL). > [...] > > The resulting dataset will not be imported "as is" in OSM as the french > > co

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

De : Tobias Knerr Hi Julien, the relevant part of the CT was introduced so that OSM would not have to suffer such a painful loss again. Ideally, it should be possible to decide on a license change purely based on the merits of the proposed new license. Hi Tobias

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

Hi Julien, On 15.05.2014 18:46, THEVENON Julien wrote: [...] > By this way the amount of data loss will be an argument pro or against a > new licence in the same way some data were loss during the migration > from CC-by_S to ODBL due to impossible relicencing the relevant part of the CT was intro

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

2014-05-15 18:46 GMT+02:00 THEVENON Julien : > You consider that we should completely stop to use any open data sources > available in the world because in the future the community will perhaps > decide a relicencing that could be incompatible with licences of today > legal sources ? no, if we

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

>>>> De : Tobias Knerr >>>> À : talk@openstreetmap.org >>>> Envoyé le : Jeudi 15 mai 2014 17h51 >>>> Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France >>>> The relicensing clause is there for a re

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 15.05.2014 15:41, JB wrote: > This is not done, and I certainly hope that the « community » does not > take it for granted before a hypothetical future vote. > And that if an actual vote takes place, a real debate also takes place, > with real counter-arguments replied to the already heard argum

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

This is not done, and I certainly hope that the « community » does not take it for granted before a hypothetical future vote. And that if an actual vote takes place, a real debate also takes place, with real counter-arguments replied to the already heard arguments. JB. Le 15/05/2014 15:11, Tobi

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On 14.05.2014 11:16, Christian Quest wrote: > The resulting dataset will be under ODbL (because of OSM data and also > many opendata sets are also under ODbL). [...] > The resulting dataset will not be imported "as is" in OSM as the french > community considers it needs to be manually reviewed. Th

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Christian Quest wrote: > OSM-FR has initiated a project to create an open database of addresses in > France. > > Data sources will be OSM + available opendata + address data collected from > the cadastre. > > The resulting dataset will be under ODbL (because of OS

[OSM-talk] OSM France "BANO" project... openaddresses in France

OSM-FR has initiated a project to create an open database of addresses in France. Data sources will be OSM + available opendata + address data collected from the cadastre. The resulting dataset will be under ODbL (because of OSM data and also many opendata sets are also under ODbL). In the past