subject:"\[OSM\-talk\] OSM France BANO project... openaddresses in France"

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France BANO project... openaddresses in France

2014-12-11 Thread Pieren

On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Imre Samu pella.s...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Christian,

 As I read OKFN article [1]  about BANO project ( November 17, 2014 )
 It's not perfectly clear to me what it is the BANO license ?  ( only ODBL or
 Dual licensed  ?   )

BANO is ODbL only. The article you refer is about another similar
project but different from the one discussed in this thread.

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM France BANO project... openaddresses in France

2014-12-10 Thread Imre Samu

Hi Christian,

As I read OKFN article [1] about BANO project ( November 17, 2014 )
It's not perfectly clear to me what it is the BANO license ? ( only ODBL
or Dual licensed ? )

from the text [1] :
Q:The reached agreement includes a dual license framework. You can reuse
the data for free under an ODbL license,
or you can opt for a non-share-alike license but you have to pay a
fee. Is share-alike clause an obstacle for the private sector?
.

[1]
http://blog.okfn.org/2014/11/17/an-unprecedented-public-commons-partnership-for-the-french-national-address-database/

regards,
Imre

2014-05-24 17:02 GMT+02:00 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de:

Hi Christian,
(shortening the last message to comment on some parts only)

Am 24.05.2014 16:04, schrieb Christian Quest:

BANO is not designed to be used as an import source for OSM.
It uses sources (opendata, cadastre) that can be imported in OSM.
These sources have been used over the past years and will still be used
to
add addresses in OSM, one at a time, or street by street which will take
years before completion.

So, BANO is there to allow to use all the available address data right
now
without having to wait years to get them cleanly added to OSM.
I agree - but why should anybody add the data manually to osm if it's
even not visible any more where data is missing, as in Nominatim both
sources look the same.

This has one good side effect... reduce the pressure on massive address
imports in OSM and give us the opportunity to improve the quality thru
survey prior to add it to OSM.
I agree if you propose BANO as a data source for any private or third
party setup of nominatim or openstreetmap data, but I oppose it to be
used in the projects instances.

Mappers detect errors and missing data while using these instances. I
add missing streets occasionally after I failed to find them in OSM -
using the map renderings, nominatim or other tools.
I wouldn't even detect that they are missing when nominatim would return
the results from another source.

2014-05-24 12:58 GMT+02:00 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de:
Adding it to (the osm installation of) nominatim on the other hand is a
bad idea, I think:
IMHO nominatim.openstreetmap.or should rely on OSM as a data source as
pure as possible. Adding different data sets might be useful to add
information not possible or out of scope of the osm database (like
importance factors using the wikipedia links), but BANO is a different
thing.

If the BANO addresses are free and open enough for OSM, we should
encourage to work on bringing them to the OSM database itself (provided,
they are GOOD enough as well). How should anybody in France get
motivation to collect more addresses for the osm database itself, if
anything is available in BANO already?

I'm pushing the french community to be more motivated on having all
streets
and all streets name in OSM (BANO allowed us to detect 40% missing
streets
or street names) more than adding addresses without surveying them.
Great - but I fear, the availability of third data sources like BANO
through the usual tools destroys motivation again, the motivation get's
an extrinsic one, because the intrinsic need of mappers to get rid of
errors and missing results using OSM is missing due to results returned
out of the BANO data.

I agree to motivate to collect BETTER address data... it we collect the
same data with the same quality level it looks to me more losing our time
than anything else.
Mappers are better than you might think.
Collecting the same data with the same quality level is not possible.
1) the data is checked in reality = so survey on the ground increases
quality with respect to errors.
2) the data is correct at the date of the survey = where it is done
it's more up to date than any imported data, but of course only where it
is done.
3) When a mapper goes out to add streets and house numbers, it's easy to
collect any other stuff where there is no other data source available.
post boxes, benches, vending machines, opening hours, surface of the
streets and much more stuff that increases quality. In contrast
importing data is restricted to the data contained in the data source.

P.S: Of course this is not meant to deal with the software as such, but
for the installations/instances officially part of OSM. Feel free to
set up an BANO nominatim server to show the strength of BANO instead.

In that case remove geonames and TIGER address search from
osm.org Nominatim instance.

On osm.org Genonames is a different search result set, distinct from
Nominatim, there are two different query results returned.
This is a good way to go, and yes, it might an idea to do the same with
BANO - but that's not what you proposed: it's not adding the BANO data
to Nominatim.

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