Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
Hi, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. I think the wording is ok, but I would advise against translating it. I believe that presenting a crowdsource-translated summary above an English legalese could be interpreted as misleading the users. Personally, I think that translations are a problem in many places in OSM. Stuff is translated and then starts to rot because whoever did the translation goes hunting for the next non-translated bit. This is just the same as with imports; the translations create documents that nobody cares about, that do not have a community to support them. There seem to be some areas where it works, but I have the impression that triumphantly adding a 23rd language to some page on the Wiki does not, overall, improve quality. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. If the legal cabal doesn't disapprove of this (and hopefully, approves) I can submit patches against the website to include this in the relevant signup form. The proposed terms would appear where the Please read the agreement below and press the agree button to create your account text does on the current signup form. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
awesome On May 14, 2010, at 2:19 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. If the legal cabal doesn't disapprove of this (and hopefully, approves) I can submit patches against the website to include this in the relevant signup form. The proposed terms would appear where the Please read the agreement below and press the agree button to create your account text does on the current signup form. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
Hi, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. I think the wording is ok, but I would advise against translating it. I believe that presenting a crowdsource-translated summary above an English legalese could be interpreted as misleading the users. Personally, I think that translations are a problem in many places in OSM. Stuff is translated and then starts to rot because whoever did the translation goes hunting for the next non-translated bit. This is just the same as with imports; the translations create documents that nobody cares about, that do not have a community to support them. There seem to be some areas where it works, but I have the impression that triumphantly adding a 23rd language to some page on the Wiki does not, overall, improve quality. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 20:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. I think the wording is ok, but I would advise against translating it. I believe that presenting a crowdsource-translated summary above an English legalese could be interpreted as misleading the users. Personally, I think that translations are a problem in many places in OSM. Stuff is translated and then starts to rot because whoever did the translation goes hunting for the next non-translated bit. This is just the same as with imports; the translations create documents that nobody cares about, that do not have a community to support them. It's not misleading if you make sure to note that the summary or the translation isn't canonical. See what I did with the copyright page[1] for an example (only works if you don't view it in English). I'm also talking about translating it on Translatewiki not the OpenStreetMap wiki. The former doesn't suffer from bitrotted translations because out of date translations are automatically marked as obsolete. They'll be removed in time if they're not updated. There seem to be some areas where it works, but I have the impression that triumphantly adding a 23rd language to some page on the Wiki does not, overall, improve quality. The website is now available in just under 70 languages. You have to consider that a lot of the people speaking those languages don't understand English *at all*. The English-only terms might as well be in Klingon as far as their understanding of them goes. Of course you have to be careful when translating texts in legalese (or their summaries). I think the copyright page does a good job of this, allowing translations while explicitly declaring the English version to be canonical. A summary also helps native English speakers. Users are very prone to completely ignore long legal texts and blindly click Agree. They're much more likely to read and understand a short summary intended for the layman. 1. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On 14/05/10 21:19, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. The current wording appears to have been written in a way that is aimed at existing contributors rathera than new contributors, who are the only people being shown the terms currently. New users don't need to know that we're making a change, or that attribution is handled differently - they just need to know how things work now, not how they used to work. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 21:36, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 14/05/10 21:19, Ęvar Arnfjörš Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. The current wording appears to have been written in a way that is aimed at existing contributors rathera than new contributors, who are the only people being shown the terms currently. Patches welcome! Seriously, I'm not a native speaker and the text can be improved in lots of little (and big) ways. The intent with the OpenStreetMap is now moving away part was to provide some summary, but maybe that's not necessary. New users don't need to know that [...] that attribution is handled differently [...]. The attribution part is there because of section #4 of the contributor terms: 4. At Your or the copyright holder’s option, OSMF agrees to attribute You or the copyright holder. A mechanism will be provided, currently a web page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution They apply whether you're a new user or not. I don't see any reason why new users would care less about attribution than users that have signed up in the past. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 20:19, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote: If the legal cabal doesn't disapprove of this (and hopefully, approves) I can submit patches against the website to include this in the relevant signup form. I've now changed[1] the signup form in my branch: before: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/6/6c/Contributor-terms.png after: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/f/fd/New-contributor-terms.png The wording in the patch is just a snapshot from the wiki. The patch will obviously have to be updated to incorporate any changes in the summary. 1. http://github.com/avar/openstreetmap-website/compare/master...topic/human-readable-contributor-terms ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On 14/05/10 22:53, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: The attribution part is there because of section #4 of the contributor terms: 4. At Your or the copyright holder’s option, OSMF agrees to attribute You or the copyright holder. A mechanism will be provided, currently a web page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution They apply whether you're a new user or not. I don't see any reason why new users would care less about attribution than users that have signed up in the past. The point is not that we don't need to explain how attribution is handled but rather that we don't need to mention that it's a change because a new user has no knowledge of previous arrangements. In other words the first sentence of the last paragraph is not needed for a new user. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 21:57, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: The point is not that we don't need to explain how attribution is handled but rather that we don't need to mention that it's a change because a new user has no knowledge of previous arrangements. In other words the first sentence of the last paragraph is not needed for a new user. Agreed. I misunderstood your post. I've changed the wording of the last paragraph: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readablediff=473831oldid=473827 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
