Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
So maybe we'll finally have an answer to our questions in http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3266 ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
Vincent Privat wrote: So maybe we'll finally have an answer to our questions in http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3266 ? Isn't there a hstore in the rendering-db? Kay ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
Hi, On 02/16/2012 03:05 PM, Kay Drangmeister wrote: Isn't there a hstore in the rendering-db? No. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
On 15-2-2012 17:06, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: I received the following reply at 10.14.44 GMT+01:00: Hi mok0, Thanks for the notice, and I'm currently submitting a changeset where everything with generator:source=wind also has power_source=wind specified as well. Also, I'll take a look into the mapnik style sheet to see how this can be updated to remove the depreciated tags. Aside from the existence of generator:source=wind this demonstrates he hasn't quite understood it yet. The new scheme should be added[1] to the stylesheet, but the old scheme should not be removed. At least not before the overwhelming majority of existing objects are compatible with the new tagging, or after some extensive time has passed to allow this tag change to propagate. [1] Has now been done, but not deployed yet. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
Hi, In changeset 10678735 [1] a new user has removed all power_source=wind tags on wind turbines. The result is that wind turbines are no longer rendered on the mapnik layer. It is true that the power_source tag is deprecated, but being deprecated does IMHO not mean that a tag should be removed in a massive clean-up operation, especially if you do not follow up on the consequences of such a change. Adding the new generation tag (generator:source = wind) is fine, but removing the old tag is not. I have emailed the user and asked him to revert the changeset. Cheers, Morten [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/10678735 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
On 2012-02-15 09:26, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: It is true that the power_source tag is deprecated, but being deprecated does IMHO not mean that a tag should be removed in a massive clean-up operation, especially if you do not follow up on the consequences of such a change. Adding the new generation tag (generator:source = wind) is fine, but removing the old tag is not. I'm curious why the power_source tag is set to deprecated while the Mapnik stylesheet has not been adapted to include the new tag. I would think that would the logical step. No use in making a new tag that is not rendered, especially when the old tag is supposed to not be used anymore. The wiki is also less than helpful. The wiki page of power_source [1] is an immediate redirect to generator:source [2] with no mention that power_source might be deprecated. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:power_sourceredirect=no [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power%20source Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
2012/2/15 Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl I'm curious why the power_source tag is set to deprecated while the Mapnik stylesheet has not been adapted to include the new tag. I would think that would the logical step. Not rendering the new public transport proposal is slowing down the change to the new set of tags. Maybe this is the faster way to make a change in mapnik. Janko ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
I know the stylesheet maintainers are backed up, but is there a ticket indicating what additions to the stylesheet are desired in trac? The only mapnik ticket I can find relating to public transport is http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2798 Do any of the general purpose styles (e.g. mapquest, cloudmade) render anything for any public_transport=* values? From: Janko Mihelić [mailto:jan...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:56 AM To: Maarten Deen Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer 2012/2/15 Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl I'm curious why the power_source tag is set to deprecated while the Mapnik stylesheet has not been adapted to include the new tag. I would think that would the logical step. Not rendering the new public transport proposal is slowing down the change to the new set of tags. Maybe this is the faster way to make a change in mapnik. Janko ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
On 2012-02-15 09:55, Janko Mihelić wrote: Not rendering the new public transport proposal is slowing down the change to the new set of tags. Maybe this is the faster way to make a change in mapnik. Do you already know the Transport layer on osm.org? There are also several other public transport maps, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport#Maps I agree that public_transport=stop_position and maybe platforms should be rendered on mapnik as well. bye ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
Hi, On 02/15/2012 09:44 AM, Maarten Deen wrote: I'm curious why the power_source tag is set to deprecated while the Mapnik stylesheet has not been adapted to include the new tag. There are no deprecated tags, and nobody has the power to set a tag to deprecated. What's even more problematic is if people try to automatically change a large number of objects away from what they consider deprecated to some new tagging scheme. This requires a much broader approval than a few votes cast on a wiki page that nobody reads; we expect any automated or even mechanical edit to be discussed on the mailing lists beforehand. No use in making a new tag that is not rendered This is not true; there are many tags that are not rendered and the map on www.openstreetmap.org is not the arbiter of what tags should be used. The wiki is also less than helpful. The wiki page of power_source [1] is an immediate redirect to generator:source [2] with no mention that power_source might be deprecated. Yes, this is not helpful, and certainly no basis for effecting an automated edit. When looking at the other edits of the user who did this edit, we can see that not only did they make this tag change across a number of changesets; they also imported wind turbine data from a third-party source. Unless they can point to a community discussion and agreement that preceded the import, they should not only revert their mass edit, but also remove the imported data because it doesn't meet our import guidelines. Morten, could you keep us posted about any replies you get from them. It would be preferable if the Netherlands community could deal with this but DWG will be happy to step in if there's a problem. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
On 15/02/2012, at 10.46, Frederik Ramm wrote: What's even more problematic is if people try to automatically change a large number of objects away from what they consider deprecated to some new tagging scheme. This requires a much broader approval than a few votes cast on a wiki page that nobody reads; we expect any automated or even mechanical edit to be discussed on the mailing lists beforehand. I agree completely, see below Morten, could you keep us posted about any replies you get from them. It would be preferable if the Netherlands community could deal with this but DWG will be happy to step in if there's a problem. I received the following reply at 10.14.44 GMT+01:00: Hi mok0, Thanks for the notice, and I'm currently submitting a changeset where everything with generator:source=wind also has power_source=wind specified as well. Also, I'll take a look into the mapnik style sheet to see how this can be updated to remove the depreciated tags. ... and I answered thus: That's great, thanks! It is great if you fix bugs in the osm tags -- misspellings and such -- but you really should not remove tags that someone put there. If tag removal is to be carried out, it is best to discuss it on the mailing list first, but in general, you never know if tags are being used by someone, so it's better just to leave them. They do no harm. If you are thinking of wasted storage space, think of the extra data you produce by generating a changeset plus new versions of all the objects... So, instead of reverting, the user has uploaded a new changeset with the fixes. Cheers, mok0 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
On 15/02/12 16:06, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: On 15/02/2012, at 10.46, Frederik Ramm wrote: What's even more problematic is if people try to automatically change a large number of objects away from what they consider deprecated to some new tagging scheme. This requires a much broader approval than a few votes cast on a wiki page that nobody reads; we expect any automated or even mechanical edit to be discussed on the mailing lists beforehand. I agree completely, see below Morten, could you keep us posted about any replies you get from them. It would be preferable if the Netherlands community could deal with this but DWG will be happy to step in if there's a problem. I received the following reply at 10.14.44 GMT+01:00: Hi mok0, Thanks for the notice, and I'm currently submitting a changeset where everything with generator:source=wind also has power_source=wind specified as well. Also, I'll take a look into the mapnik style sheet to see how this can be updated to remove the depreciated tags. ... and I answered thus: That's great, thanks! It is great if you fix bugs in the osm tags -- misspellings and such -- but you really should not remove tags that someone put there. If tag removal is to be carried out, it is best to discuss it on the mailing list first, but in general, you never know if tags are being used by someone, so it's better just to leave them. They do no harm. If you are thinking of wasted storage space, think of the extra data you produce by generating a changeset plus new versions of all the objects... So, instead of reverting, the user has uploaded a new changeset with the fixes. I contacted him too and explained about mass edits and imports. The fact that he didn't revert his changesets and attempted to re-add the deleted tags is not great. I think he has ended up adding power_source tags to objects that didn't have it before. How can we deter newbies from imports and mass edits? It seems he didn't know what he needed to know about prior discussion and agreement, he didn't know how to ask a wide enough audience, he didn't have the experience to know how to fix the mess he made, and he didn't understand the basics of OSM. This is not the first time. I can't blame people for not knowing, so how do we inform them, before they wade into problems? -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wind turbines no longer rendered on mapnik layer
Morten Kjeldgaard writes: The result is that wind turbines are no longer rendered on the mapnik layer. That's only because generator:source=wind doesn't cause them to be rendered. It's a separate problem that the person deleted power_source=wind without adding generator:source=wind. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
