Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Andrew Harvey]

I finally managed to get in touch with one of the organisers, and raised
the licensing/waiver issue. They've said they asked Planet Labs for the
waiver, I've also independently reached out to the Planet Labs disasters
contact with background on why OSM asks for the waiver and the waiver
asking them if they can complete it if they would like OSM to be able to
use their disaster imagery. Given the mapathon is on Sunday it's a
nervous wait to see if they'll respond in time.

I've presented the organiser with an alternative of using ARA's imagery for
Adelaide Hills and Kangaroo Island (though I just went through and mapped
out most of Kangaroo Island last night, and KI won't be enough to sustain a
nation wide mapathon). I also mentioned the Maxar imagery, but they don't
have much post-event imagery published yet, so can't easily be used to
identify damaged buildings.

The organiser was not fully across exactly how the HOT Tasking Manager
worked, they thought edits won't go into OSM until after being validated,
so they thought without the waiver they could just not upload to OSM, but I
informed them that's not how the HOT Tasking Manager works, all edits are
saved into OSM even before the Tasking Manager validation step.

They said if they can't get the waiver they "plan to extract the changeset
out of OSM post mapathons (this Sunday) at which stage we would expect the
data not to be committed to OSM". That doesn't make any sense to me.

Since I'm now part of the Data Working Group, I briefly discussed it with
them and if we don't have the waiver or explicit permission to trace their
imagery in OSM then we will have no choice but to revert edits / or temp
block accounts. The LWG policy is clear that for the avoidance of doubt we
need additional waiver / explicit permission when tracing CC BY, CC BY-SA
or CC BY-NC imagery.

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:00, Sebastian S.  wrote:

> Hi Andrew, are they (the organisers) aware of the licensing
> issues/requirements?
>
> Are they following here? Please engage with the discussion :-)
>
> On 6 February 2020 12:37:16 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey <
> andrew.harv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was corrected by someone off list, looks like they are planning on
>> mapping within OSM https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/7893. Now I have to
>> scrabble to validate Planet Labs has provided the necessary permission for
>> their imagery to be traced into OSM.
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:12, Andrew Harvey 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but by
>>> the looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they are
>>> creating their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open data,
>>> they haven't stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on consuming
>>> OpenStreetMap though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified as
>>> important or useful to map.
>>>
>>> What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery
>>> https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.
>>>
>>> 1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from
>>> Planet Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver
>>> for use in OpenStreetMap.
>>>
>>> 2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited access
>>> to Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer
>>> organizations, humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies."
>>> it's unclear how we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But
>>> for now at least, without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery
>>> for use in OpenStreetMap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway  wrote:
>>>
 Hi group,

 I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been
 shared already and I missed it:
 https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon

 Extract from the above page:

 *The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on
 Sunday, 9th February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register
 visit: SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon
 
  *

 *SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for
 reaching out to assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the
 continued offers of assistance from individuals and businesses from within
 Australia and globally.*



 From reading through the pages, they are going to be using
 OpenStreetMap in conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure
 if they have any new datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already
 mentioned on the list...



 Stephen.
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>>>

Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Sebastian S.]

Hi Andrew, are they (the organisers) aware of the licensing issues/requirements?

Are they following here? Please engage with the discussion :-)

On 6 February 2020 12:37:16 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>I was corrected by someone off list, looks like they are planning on
>mapping within OSM https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/7893. Now I have to
>scrabble to validate Planet Labs has provided the necessary permission
>for
>their imagery to be traced into OSM.
>
>On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:12, Andrew Harvey 
>wrote:
>
>> I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but
>by
>> the looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they
>are
>> creating their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open
>data,
>> they haven't stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on
>consuming
>> OpenStreetMap though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified
>as
>> important or useful to map.
>>
>> What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery
>> https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.
>>
>> 1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from
>Planet
>> Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver
>for use
>> in OpenStreetMap.
>>
>> 2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited
>access to
>> Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer
>organizations,
>> humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies." it's
>unclear
>> how we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But for now
>at
>> least, without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery for
>use in
>> OpenStreetMap.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway 
>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi group,
>>>
>>> I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has
>been
>>> shared already and I missed it:
>>> https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon
>>>
>>> Extract from the above page:
>>>
>>> *The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on
>Sunday,
>>> 9th February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register
>visit: SSSI
>>> National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon
>>>
>
>*
>>>
>>> *SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for
>reaching
>>> out to assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the
>continued
>>> offers of assistance from individuals and businesses from within
>Australia
>>> and globally.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From reading through the pages, they are going to be using
>OpenStreetMap
>>> in conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they
>have
>>> any new datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on
>the
>>> list...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stephen.
>>> ___
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Warin]

On 6/2/20 3:21 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:




On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:14, Andrew Harvey > wrote:


Fair point, I didn't find it since it's not documented
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/damage#wiki. The two tags
can coexist so I don't see a problem with using damage as a quick
and easy method for new contributors.


As long as it's actually observable on imagery, which will always be a 
problem :-(


& how experienced are the people doing the mapping? I've seen it 
mentioned in the past that HOT mapping was being done by classes of 
high school / Uni students who were given a basic "Intro to OSM", then 
told "Get to it & map".


BTW Phil - very interesting article, thanks!




I'd bet that the information is never updated. Once HOT has finished do 
they ever do a tidy up?



Should all damaged tags be deleted? There is over 100,000 of them.

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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:14, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> Fair point, I didn't find it since it's not documented
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/damage#wiki. The two tags can
> coexist so I don't see a problem with using damage as a quick and easy
> method for new contributors.
>

As long as it's actually observable on imagery, which will always be a
problem :-(

& how experienced are the people doing the mapping? I've seen it mentioned
in the past that HOT mapping was being done by classes of high school / Uni
students who were given a basic "Intro to OSM", then told "Get to it & map".

BTW Phil - very interesting article, thanks!

  Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Andrew Harvey]

Fair point, I didn't find it since it's not documented
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/damage#wiki. The two tags can
coexist so I don't see a problem with using damage as a quick and easy
method for new contributors.

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 14:04, Phil Wyatt  wrote:

> The damage tag has been widely used in past international events
>
>
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=damage
>
>
>
> Oh for a standardised tagging system!
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Harvey 
> *Sent:* Thursday, 6 February 2020 1:44 PM
> *To:* Phil Wyatt 
> *Cc:* Stephen Backway ; talk-au <
> talk-au@openstreetmap.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon -
> Sunday 9th Feb
>
>
>
> The lifecycle prefix is the way to go
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lifecycle_prefix and has already been
> used fairly widespread to map impact from the current fire season.
>
>
>
> razed:building=*
>
> ruins:building=*
>
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:05, Phil Wyatt  wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
>
> I am also not sure that adding Damage=No is suitable for OSM either?
>
>
>
> *If the building footprint already exists then add a "Damaged" tag with a
> value of "Yes" if it looks to have been impacted by fire or "No" if it has
> not been impacted by fire. If you are unsure do not enter a tag at all.*
>
>
>
> Cheers - Phil
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Harvey 
> *Sent:* Thursday, 6 February 2020 12:37 PM
> *To:* Stephen Backway 
> *Cc:* talk-au 
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon -
> Sunday 9th Feb
>
>
>
> I was corrected by someone off list, looks like they are planning on
> mapping within OSM https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/7893. Now I have to
> scrabble to validate Planet Labs has provided the necessary permission for
> their imagery to be traced into OSM.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:12, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
> I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but by
> the looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they are
> creating their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open data,
> they haven't stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on consuming
> OpenStreetMap though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified as
> important or useful to map.
>
>
>
> What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery
> https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.
>
>
>
> 1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from Planet
> Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver for use
> in OpenStreetMap.
>
>
>
> 2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited access to
> Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer organizations,
> humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies." it's unclear
> how we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But for now at
> least, without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery for use in
> OpenStreetMap.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway  wrote:
>
> Hi group,
>
>
>
> I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been
> shared already and I missed it:
>
> https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon
>
>
>
> Extract from the above page:
>
> *The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on Sunday,
> 9th February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register visit: SSSI
> National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon
> 
>  *
>
> *SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for reaching
> out to assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the continued
> offers of assistance from individuals and businesses from within Australia
> and globally.*
>
>
>
> From reading through the pages, they are going to be using OpenStreetMap
> in conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they have
> any new datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on the
> list...
>
>
>
> Stephen.
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Phil Wyatt]

The damage tag has been widely used in past international events

 

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=damage

 

Oh for a standardised tagging system!

 

 

From: Andrew Harvey  
Sent: Thursday, 6 February 2020 1:44 PM
To: Phil Wyatt 
Cc: Stephen Backway ; talk-au 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th 
Feb

 

The lifecycle prefix is the way to go 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lifecycle_prefix and has already been used 
fairly widespread to map impact from the current fire season.

 

razed:building=*

ruins:building=*

 

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:05, Phil Wyatt mailto:p...@wyatt-family.com> > wrote:

Hi Folks,

 

I am also not sure that adding Damage=No is suitable for OSM either?

 

If the building footprint already exists then add a "Damaged" tag with a value 
of "Yes" if it looks to have been impacted by fire or "No" if it has not been 
impacted by fire. If you are unsure do not enter a tag at all.

 

Cheers - Phil

 

 

From: Andrew Harvey mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com> 
> 
Sent: Thursday, 6 February 2020 12:37 PM
To: Stephen Backway mailto:stev...@email.com> >
Cc: talk-au mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org> >
Subject: Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th 
Feb

 

I was corrected by someone off list, looks like they are planning on mapping 
within OSM https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/7893. Now I have to scrabble to 
validate Planet Labs has provided the necessary permission for their imagery to 
be traced into OSM.

 

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:12, Andrew Harvey mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but by the 
looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they are creating 
their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open data, they haven't 
stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on consuming OpenStreetMap 
though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified as important or useful to 
map.

 

What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery 
https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.

 

1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from Planet 
Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver for use in 
OpenStreetMap.

 

2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited access to 
Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer organizations, 
humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies." it's unclear how 
we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But for now at least, 
without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery for use in 
OpenStreetMap.

 

 

 

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway mailto:stev...@email.com> > wrote:

Hi group,

 

I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been shared 
already and I missed it:

https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon

 

Extract from the above page:

The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on Sunday, 9th 
February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register visit: SSSI 
National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon 

  

SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for reaching out to 
assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the continued offers of 
assistance from individuals and businesses from within Australia and globally.

 

>From reading through the pages, they are going to be using OpenStreetMap in 
>conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they have any new 
>datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on the list...

 

Stephen.

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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Andrew Harvey]

The lifecycle prefix is the way to go
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lifecycle_prefix and has already been
used fairly widespread to map impact from the current fire season.

razed:building=*
ruins:building=*

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:05, Phil Wyatt  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
>
>
> I am also not sure that adding Damage=No is suitable for OSM either?
>
>
>
> *If the building footprint already exists then add a "Damaged" tag with a
> value of "Yes" if it looks to have been impacted by fire or "No" if it has
> not been impacted by fire. If you are unsure do not enter a tag at all.*
>
>
>
> Cheers - Phil
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Harvey 
> *Sent:* Thursday, 6 February 2020 12:37 PM
> *To:* Stephen Backway 
> *Cc:* talk-au 
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon -
> Sunday 9th Feb
>
>
>
> I was corrected by someone off list, looks like they are planning on
> mapping within OSM https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/7893. Now I have to
> scrabble to validate Planet Labs has provided the necessary permission for
> their imagery to be traced into OSM.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:12, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
> I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but by
> the looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they are
> creating their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open data,
> they haven't stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on consuming
> OpenStreetMap though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified as
> important or useful to map.
>
>
>
> What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery
> https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.
>
>
>
> 1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from Planet
> Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver for use
> in OpenStreetMap.
>
>
>
> 2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited access to
> Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer organizations,
> humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies." it's unclear
> how we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But for now at
> least, without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery for use in
> OpenStreetMap.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway  wrote:
>
> Hi group,
>
>
>
> I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been
> shared already and I missed it:
>
> https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon
>
>
>
> Extract from the above page:
>
> *The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on Sunday,
> 9th February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register visit: SSSI
> National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon
> 
>  *
>
> *SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for reaching
> out to assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the continued
> offers of assistance from individuals and businesses from within Australia
> and globally.*
>
>
>
> From reading through the pages, they are going to be using OpenStreetMap
> in conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they have
> any new datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on the
> list...
>
>
>
> Stephen.
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Phil Wyatt]

Hi Folks,

 

In past assessments such as this I think the actual event has also been tagged 
damage:event=’NSW Fires 2020’

 

A good paper on the accuracy of this type of remote capture work 

 

Section 3.1 seems to be the critical few paragraphs. It’s a few years ago and 
hopefully image capture has improved somewhat to make the exercise worthwhile.

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Phil Wyatt  
Sent: Thursday, 6 February 2020 1:05 PM
To: 'Andrew Harvey' ; 'Stephen Backway' 

Cc: 'talk-au' 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th 
Feb

 

Hi Folks,

 

I am also not sure that adding Damage=No is suitable for OSM either?

 

If the building footprint already exists then add a "Damaged" tag with a value 
of "Yes" if it looks to have been impacted by fire or "No" if it has not been 
impacted by fire. If you are unsure do not enter a tag at all.

 

Cheers - Phil

 

 

From: Andrew Harvey mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com> 
> 
Sent: Thursday, 6 February 2020 12:37 PM
To: Stephen Backway mailto:stev...@email.com> >
Cc: talk-au mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org> >
Subject: Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th 
Feb

 

I was corrected by someone off list, looks like they are planning on mapping 
within OSM https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/7893. Now I have to scrabble to 
validate Planet Labs has provided the necessary permission for their imagery to 
be traced into OSM.

 

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:12, Andrew Harvey mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but by the 
looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they are creating 
their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open data, they haven't 
stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on consuming OpenStreetMap 
though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified as important or useful to 
map.

 

What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery 
https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.

 

1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from Planet 
Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver for use in 
OpenStreetMap.

 

2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited access to 
Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer organizations, 
humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies." it's unclear how 
we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But for now at least, 
without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery for use in 
OpenStreetMap.

 

 

 

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway mailto:stev...@email.com> > wrote:

Hi group,

 

I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been shared 
already and I missed it:

https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon

 

Extract from the above page:

The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on Sunday, 9th 
February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register visit: SSSI 
National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon 

  

SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for reaching out to 
assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the continued offers of 
assistance from individuals and businesses from within Australia and globally.

 

>From reading through the pages, they are going to be using OpenStreetMap in 
>conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they have any new 
>datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on the list...

 

Stephen.

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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Phil Wyatt]

Hi Folks,

 

I am also not sure that adding Damage=No is suitable for OSM either?

 

If the building footprint already exists then add a "Damaged" tag with a value 
of "Yes" if it looks to have been impacted by fire or "No" if it has not been 
impacted by fire. If you are unsure do not enter a tag at all.

 

Cheers - Phil

 

 

From: Andrew Harvey  
Sent: Thursday, 6 February 2020 12:37 PM
To: Stephen Backway 
Cc: talk-au 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th 
Feb

 

I was corrected by someone off list, looks like they are planning on mapping 
within OSM https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/7893. Now I have to scrabble to 
validate Planet Labs has provided the necessary permission for their imagery to 
be traced into OSM.

 

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:12, Andrew Harvey mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but by the 
looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they are creating 
their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open data, they haven't 
stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on consuming OpenStreetMap 
though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified as important or useful to 
map.

 

What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery 
https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.

 

1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from Planet 
Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver for use in 
OpenStreetMap.

 

2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited access to 
Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer organizations, 
humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies." it's unclear how 
we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But for now at least, 
without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery for use in 
OpenStreetMap.

 

 

 

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway mailto:stev...@email.com> > wrote:

Hi group,

 

I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been shared 
already and I missed it:

https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon

 

Extract from the above page:

The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on Sunday, 9th 
February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register visit: SSSI 
National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon 

  

SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for reaching out to 
assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the continued offers of 
assistance from individuals and businesses from within Australia and globally.

 

>From reading through the pages, they are going to be using OpenStreetMap in 
>conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they have any new 
>datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on the list...

 

Stephen.

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Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[cleary]

Thanks for the feedback.   I now realise that the easily accessible data from 
Transport NSW is NOT licensed under Creative Commons and I would need 
assistance to access the licensed data. Andrew, thanks for the offer to assist 
in accessing the data.  However, on reflection, I don't think it should be a 
priority.  The Transport NSW website  https://transportnsw.info/routes/bus  
shows the most useful information , route by route, superimposed on the OSM 
map.  For the time being, this is probably adequate for most users  rather than 
refer to OSM's transport map layer.

So, at this stage,  I will leave it to others, with more knowledge and skills,  
to progress use of this data when time permits.

Thanks again for the feedback and offer of assistance.





On Wed, 5 Feb 2020, at 11:32 PM, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 10:09, cleary  wrote:
> > 
> >  Some Sydney bus routes have changed and I have modified a few by survey 
> > (catching buses and recording routes and stops). Using TfNSW data would be 
> > much easier.
> > 
> >  1. Can I use the TfNSW data now to modify/add some local bus routes or do 
> > we need to await discussion and an agreed import plan?
> 
> If you plan to do everything manually I think that's okay for you to go 
> ahead. If you're planning on doing that on a mass scale (like trying to 
> do all of them) then a heads up would be appreciated, but otherwise I 
> have no problems.
> 
> If you're using TfNSW data and applying some transformation on it to 
> the OSM schema and plan on using that, then please post first so we can 
> do a review to make sure there are no issues. 
> 
> Technically we only have permission to use TfNSW's open data, so if you 
> need help with the GTFS feed to visualise routes I can try.
> 
> I would eventually like to see a semi-automated process to import bus 
> stops, I just don't have the time now, but I can review plans if 
> someone else wanted to.
> 
> >  2. Depending on the answer to the above, do we need to add TfNSW to the 
> > List of Conributors in the wiki? and does the waiver need to published in 
> > the wiki?
> 
> Yes, if the data is used in OpenStreetMap, per the waiver agreement we 
> need to add attribution at 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#New_South_Wales_Government_data,
>  specifying which dataset we used and providing the attribution.
> 
> The waiver is already published to the wiki at 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:TfNSW_OSM_CCBY_Signed_Waiver.pdf

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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Andrew Harvey]

I was corrected by someone off list, looks like they are planning on
mapping within OSM https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/7893. Now I have to
scrabble to validate Planet Labs has provided the necessary permission for
their imagery to be traced into OSM.

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:12, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but by
> the looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they are
> creating their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open data,
> they haven't stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on consuming
> OpenStreetMap though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified as
> important or useful to map.
>
> What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery
> https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.
>
> 1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from Planet
> Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver for use
> in OpenStreetMap.
>
> 2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited access to
> Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer organizations,
> humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies." it's unclear
> how we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But for now at
> least, without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery for use in
> OpenStreetMap.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway  wrote:
>
>> Hi group,
>>
>> I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been
>> shared already and I missed it:
>> https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon
>>
>> Extract from the above page:
>>
>> *The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on Sunday,
>> 9th February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register visit: SSSI
>> National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon
>> 
>>  *
>>
>> *SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for reaching
>> out to assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the continued
>> offers of assistance from individuals and businesses from within Australia
>> and globally.*
>>
>>
>>
>> From reading through the pages, they are going to be using OpenStreetMap
>> in conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they have
>> any new datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on the
>> list...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stephen.
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Re: [talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Andrew Harvey]

I sent an email to the contact email to ask for more information, but by
the looks of it they aren't uploading anything to OpenStreetMap, they are
creating their own datasets (which may or may not be released as open data,
they haven't stated yet). It's unclear how they are planning on consuming
OpenStreetMap though. I'm still keen to see what they've identified as
important or useful to map.

What they've stated is they'll be using Planet Labs imagery
https://www.planet.com/disaster/fires-in-australia-2019-11-06/.

1) As far as I'm aware we don't have an imagery tracing waiver from Planet
Labs, it's worth reaching out to Planet Labs to ask for this waiver for use
in OpenStreetMap.

2) Since access to the imagery is restricted "We provide limited access to
Explorer for up to 30 days to qualified disaster volunteer organizations,
humanitarian organizations, and other coordinating bodies." it's unclear
how we'd go about asking for access, and who gets access. But for now at
least, without (1) my view is we can't trace Planet Labs imagery for use in
OpenStreetMap.



On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:50, Stephen Backway  wrote:

> Hi group,
>
> I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been
> shared already and I missed it:
> https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon
>
> Extract from the above page:
>
> *The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on Sunday,
> 9th February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register visit: SSSI
> National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon
> 
>  *
>
> *SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for reaching
> out to assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the continued
> offers of assistance from individuals and businesses from within Australia
> and globally.*
>
>
>
> From reading through the pages, they are going to be using OpenStreetMap
> in conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they have
> any new datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on the
> list...
>
>
>
> Stephen.
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[talk-au] SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon - Sunday 9th Feb

[Stephen Backway]

Hi group,

 

I just came across this Map-A-Thon by chance, apologies if it has been shared already and I missed it:

https://sssi.org.au/fire-map-a-thon/about-map-a-thon

 

Extract from the above page:


The SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon is being held on Sunday, 9th February, 2020 and registrations are now open!  To register visit: SSSI National Bushfire Recovery Map-a-thon 

SSSI is thankful to the surveying and geospatial community for reaching out to assist with the bushfire recovery effort and for the continued offers of assistance from individuals and businesses from within Australia and globally.

 

From reading through the pages, they are going to be using OpenStreetMap in conjunction with government data and imagery, so not sure if they have any new datasets/imagery layers that we haven't already mentioned on the list...

 

Stephen.


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Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[Andrew Harvey]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 10:58, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 09:34, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> 2. Depending on the answer to the above, do we need to add TfNSW to the
>>> List of Conributors in the wiki?  and does the waiver need to published in
>>> the wiki?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, if the data is used in OpenStreetMap, per the waiver agreement we
>> need to add attribution at
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#New_South_Wales_Government_data,
>> specifying which dataset we used and providing the attribution.
>>
>
> Would that need to be listed as the Source (eg GTFS data) against
> individual nodes (bus stops)?
>

It's not a legal requirement, that's why we ask for the waiver so that we
can provide attribution on the Contributors page, and not need to tag this
on every object.

The problem with the source tag on objects is there are usually a few
different sources, and different sources for the existence, location of the
object and then different sources for each tag. Then over time as other
contributors change tags, the source tag can become incorrect. What's worse
is if people feel like they can't edit an object since it's got a source
tag then it looks like an import that can't be touched.

I still add source to individual objects where I can, and change existing
source tags if I modify an object in a way that the original source no
longer applies, but it's not mandatory.

You should at a minimum specify the source on the changeset though, that's
helpful for other mappers to understand an edit.

>
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Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 09:34, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

>
>
>> 2. Depending on the answer to the above, do we need to add TfNSW to the
>> List of Conributors in the wiki?  and does the waiver need to published in
>> the wiki?
>>
>
> Yes, if the data is used in OpenStreetMap, per the waiver agreement we
> need to add attribution at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#New_South_Wales_Government_data,
> specifying which dataset we used and providing the attribution.
>

Would that need to be listed as the Source (eg GTFS data) against
individual nodes (bus stops)?

  Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[Andrew Harvey]

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 10:09, cleary  wrote:

>
> Some Sydney bus routes have changed and I have modified a few by survey
> (catching buses and recording routes and stops).  Using TfNSW data would be
> much easier.
>
> 1. Can I use the TfNSW data now to modify/add some local bus routes or do
> we need to await discussion and an agreed import plan?
>

If you plan to do everything manually I think that's okay for you to go
ahead. If you're planning on doing that on a mass scale (like trying to do
all of them) then a heads up would be appreciated, but otherwise I have no
problems.

If you're using TfNSW data and applying some transformation on it to the
OSM schema and plan on using that, then please post first so we can do a
review to make sure there are no issues.

Technically we only have permission to use TfNSW's open data, so if you
need help with the GTFS feed to visualise routes I can try.

I would eventually like to see a semi-automated process to import bus
stops, I just don't have the time now, but I can review plans if someone
else wanted to.


> 2. Depending on the answer to the above, do we need to add TfNSW to the
> List of Conributors in the wiki?  and does the waiver need to published in
> the wiki?
>

Yes, if the data is used in OpenStreetMap, per the waiver agreement we need
to add attribution at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#New_South_Wales_Government_data,
specifying which dataset we used and providing the attribution.

The waiver is already published to the wiki at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:TfNSW_OSM_CCBY_Signed_Waiver.pdf
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Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)

[cleary]

Some Sydney bus routes have changed and I have modified a few by survey 
(catching buses and recording routes and stops).  Using TfNSW data would be 
much easier.

1. Can I use the TfNSW data now to modify/add some local bus routes or do we 
need to await discussion and an agreed import plan?
2. Depending on the answer to the above, do we need to add TfNSW to the List of 
Conributors in the wiki?  and does the waiver need to published in the wiki?







On Thu, 30 Jan 2020, at 5:59 AM, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> We just received the CC BY waiver from TfNSW. That includes their GTFS 
> feed (transport routes and stops), cycle network data, boat rames 
> (those seem more directly useful to OSM).
> 
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 11:42, Runarsson, Sigurjon 
>  wrote:
> > Hi Sebastian,
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > Currently we are mostly focusing on A to B trip planning for public 
> > transport modes including walking. So our main focus atm is to enhance the 
> > data around interchanges i.e. stations layouts to support routing indoors 
> > as well as outdoors. Saying that, we are determined to contribute to all 
> > attributes within the osm database based on internal and external 
> > feedback.
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > Guidelines – I would say that we need more assistance/guidance from the osm 
> > users like yourself in most instances:) but yes we would contribute in 
> > discussion and wiki if needed. 
> 
> > Based on discussion that I have had internally for the last few days we 
> > feel that making the data available in osm by importing and regularly 
> > maintain the data like bus stops is the way to go rather than telling the 
> > users how to map ie naming a bus stop. So based on that we are now actively 
> > working on getting approval for a waiver signed for bus stops in particular 
> > so we can proceed. If successful, more datasets would follow. 
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > Maybe discussion for later date but I feel that other datasets like suburbs 
> > and address data could be updated (bulk import) into osm on regular basis 
> > as more and more consumers are directly taking the osm database into their 
> > products. Hopefully we can get waivers signed and go down that path.
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > I will keep you posted with any developments on the waiver(s). In the 
> > meantime please let us know if you have specific questions related to 
> > public transport.
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > Defiantly interested in regular local meetups. Unfortunately cannot make 
> > the 30 March.
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > Regards,
> 
> > Sigurjon
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > *From:* Seb Mapping [mailto:mapp...@consebt.de] 
> > *Sent:* Friday, 15 March 2019 4:14 PM
> > *To:* talk-au@openstreetmap.org; Runarsson, Sigurjon; 
> > talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Transport for NSW (TfNSW)
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > Hi Sigurjon,
> >  Welcome and thanks for reaching out.
> >  I like that you set up the wiki page to tell us how you use OSM. What I'm 
> > wondering is, are there rules, key topics etc TfNSW or better your group is 
> > focusing on in their contributions?
> > 
> >  Would you be interested to provide or document in the wiki mapping 
> > examples for e.g. bus stops?
> > 
> >  Regards Sebastian
> >  PS: you might be interested in local meet ups, see other thread.
> 
> > On 14 March 2019 8:53:16 am AEDT, "Runarsson, Sigurjon" 
> >  wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> 
> > 
> 
> > My name is Sigurjon and I work for the Transport for NSW (TfNSW) Data 
> > Services team which is a small but dedicated group which underpin the many 
> > digital products and projects that form part of TfNSW as a whole. The team 
> > are responsible for sourcing, managing and providing data with an emphasis 
> > on quality and efficiency.
> 
> > 
> 
> > The TfNSW Data Services team aim to contribute and help improve 
> > OpenStreetMap, which we started to use in our products like the TfNSW Trip 
> > Planner (https://transportnsw.info/trip#/) from the end of 2018, through 
> > review and updates that are identified as part of their wide reaching 
> > day-to-day activities, feedback from their extensive network of 
> > customer/public facing channels, and other TfNSW internal stakeholders.
> 
> > 
> 
> > You can find further information on our wiki page 
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TfNSW
> 
> > 
> 
> > Please don’t hesitate to contact me on 
> > sigurjon.runars...@transport.nsw.gov.au, 
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Maradona11 or use our group mailbox and 
> > another member of the team will endeavour to help you: 
> > timeta...@transport.nsw.gov.au
> 
> > 
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > Thanks,
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > Sigurjon
> 
> > __ __
> 
> > This email is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential 
> > information. If you receive this email in error please delete it and any 
> > attachments and notify the 

Re: [talk-au] Australian guidelines for mapping landuse-landcover?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Yep. ditch the landuse page as I don't think our landcover is any different
to anywhere else?

As a matter of fact, the main Australia page could do with a clean-u /
refresh  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australia

As for the tagging guidelines, I'm also in two minds?

How about something similar to the main Map Features page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features  with a one-line /
paragraph description & a link to a separate page with full details?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Airborne Research Australia South Australia Bushfire Imagery

[Andrew Harvey]

You can now find it at https://osmlab.github.io/editor-layer-index/ and
click the add to JOSM button.

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 22:16, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> They've agreed to the imagery tracing waiver! PR to add this into editors
> is at https://github.com/osmlab/editor-layer-index/pull/785, but in the
> meantime you can load this URL into JOSM or iD:
>
> https://{switch:a,b,c,d}.
> tiles.mapbox.com/v4/openstreetmapau.ara_adelaide_hills/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoib3BlbnN0cmVldG1hcGF1IiwiYSI6ImNqbWl3bXZ6aDA0MTkzd21xdnV1d2k0azEifQ.HYkMOqH_E2fYd1b0oXRe6w
> 
>
> The current coverage extent is shown at
> https://github.com/osmlab/editor-layer-index/pull/785/files?short_path=3c17119#diff-3c1711904c939e2f87cf5d13fc6be304
>
> Gumeracha Area (Adelaide Hills), Cygnet Park, Western River (Kangaroo
> Island), and more coming soon.
>
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 14:52, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> Airborne Research Australia has been flying aerial imagery around
>> Adelaide Hills and Kangaroo Island released under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
>> https://www.airborneresearch.org.au/fires-2020.
>>
>> I've sent an email with the imagery tracing waiver to ask for permission
>> to use for tracing into OSM. I'll update here if I hear back.
>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Airborne Research Australia South Australia Bushfire Imagery

[Andrew Harvey]

They've agreed to the imagery tracing waiver! PR to add this into editors
is at https://github.com/osmlab/editor-layer-index/pull/785, but in the
meantime you can load this URL into JOSM or iD:

https://{switch:a,b,c,d}.
tiles.mapbox.com/v4/openstreetmapau.ara_adelaide_hills/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoib3BlbnN0cmVldG1hcGF1IiwiYSI6ImNqbWl3bXZ6aDA0MTkzd21xdnV1d2k0azEifQ.HYkMOqH_E2fYd1b0oXRe6w

The current coverage extent is shown at
https://github.com/osmlab/editor-layer-index/pull/785/files?short_path=3c17119#diff-3c1711904c939e2f87cf5d13fc6be304

Gumeracha Area (Adelaide Hills), Cygnet Park, Western River (Kangaroo
Island), and more coming soon.

On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 14:52, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> Airborne Research Australia has been flying aerial imagery around Adelaide
> Hills and Kangaroo Island released under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
> https://www.airborneresearch.org.au/fires-2020.
>
> I've sent an email with the imagery tracing waiver to ask for permission
> to use for tracing into OSM. I'll update here if I hear back.
>
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Re: [talk-au] Australian guidelines for mapping landuse-landcover?

[Sebastian S.]

If the page has not Australian specifics, get rid of it/delete.

I also agree on the length of the tagging guidelines being too long. How do 
other languages or counties solve that?


On 5 February 2020 2:35:47 pm AEDT, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>I'm for just deleting this page.
>
>While I agree the Australian Tagging Guidelines is getting long, I'd be
>concerned splitting it up would make it harder to find content, so I'm
>on
>the fence on that.
>
>On Wed, 5 Feb 2020 at 13:28, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>  There is a page on the wiki for mapping landuse in Australia..
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapping_Landuse_in_Australia
>>
>> It is rather dated, carries little information and appears to have no
>real Australian content.
>>
>> And it does not link to the Australian pages.
>>
>> The page 
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines
>>
>> is getting rather large, I would not suggest adding landuse to it,
>rather a link to the other page and up date it to something better?
>>
>>
>>
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