Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[Leith Bade]

Yes the Emlid unit should work if you don't find the initialisation time.
They are internally using Ublox so will even be able to be configured for
the Australian SBAS.

The AUSCORS link are the stations I use here in Canberra. All the
Geoscience Australia owned ones are free to use. however a number in NSW,
Victoria, and Tasmania can only be used via a commercial RTK network
reseller who has a licence to use those state's infrastructure. GA is
working hard to improve this however and a lot of the funding announced in
the budget is to allow them to purchase these stations from the states and
open them up to the public, so expect things to be much better next year.


Thanks,
Leith Bade
le...@bade.nz

On 12 June 2018 at 20:34, Grant Slater  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I have 2 of these for RTK GNSS receivers: https://emlid.com/reachrs/
>
> 1 ReachRS unit becomes the RTK static "base" and you needs a very
> accurate position measurement and good signal. To get the most
> accurate measurement I use my base and connect it to another base
> using an NTRIP network. I'm in the United Kingdom and I connect to the
> free NTRIP network available here: http://www.euref-ip.net/home . I've
> also used the South African free NTRIP network trignet.co.za
> Geoscience Australia seem to offer a NTRIP network here:
> https://www.auscors.ga.gov.au/
> Note that max workable distance between base and rover is only around
> 20km. I've got it to work at 80km, but needs exceptionally clear area
> (unobstructed sky) and a lot of patience to get the position fix.
>
> Once I have my static ReachRS measured, I then connect it up to the
> 2nd ReachRS as a roving unit via built-in radio or Cellphone. A
> reasonable maximum distance between Base and Rover is around 20km.
>
> The rover is good for measuring points, but starts to struggle if
> moved above walking pace or has an obstructed sky (read: trees etc)
> Repeatable accuracy is <10cm horizontal and similar vertical.
>
> It is possible to do the above with a single unit if you can rely on
> an existing NTRIP network, but I believe you then cannot then use the
> GLONASS network for getting a fix due to different antenna types
> between base and rover.
>
> The ReachRS is a single frequency receiver and needs better signal and
> is slower to sync than a dual frequency receiver. In the next year or
> 2 there are likely to be more dual frequency receivers from the likes
> of u-blox. The swiftnav.com unit looks interesting.
>
> The ReachRS receiver uses a u-blox Neo-M8T chip and the rtklib
> software. A homebrew alternative would be to use
> http://www.csgshop.com/product.php?id_product=257 and rtklib yourself.
> See: https://www.blackdotgnss.com/2017/03/25/u-blox-neo-m8t-part-i/
>
> Interest? Highly recommend blog: https://rtklibexplorer.wordpress.com/
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Grant
>
>
> On 12 June 2018 at 10:58, Leith Bade  wrote:
> > If you want to do RTK you can do it for less then $1000 now. The company
> I
> > work for makes one of these lower cost options https://www.swiftnav.com.
> RTK
> > enabled centimetre level positioning with a good $600 antenna.
> >
> > If you want to use the SBAS trial you need a receiver that allows you to
> > select the SBAS satellite PRN ID of 122 and will allow a good receiver to
> > get about ~1.5m accuracy. For example the Ublox receivers will work, as
> will
> > most standalone GPS receivers
> >
> > Galileo is still under development, will offer similar performance to
> GPS.
> > It will be another 2 years before this system is complete with all 24
> > satellites.
> >
> >  Android devices are hard-coded by the manufacturer as far as the GPS
> > settings so you would need to wait for an Android update that knows about
> > the Australian satellite and QZSS (which might take several years to be
> > common place).
> >
> > My recommendation is to look at standalone GPS receiver like a Ublox M8
> > based device, that uses an external magnetic antenna you put on your
> car's
> > roof.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Leith Bade
> > le...@bade.nz
> >
> > On 12 June 2018 at 12:39, Alex Sims  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I’m really wanting to have better accuracy from GPS for use with
> >> Openstreetmap. I can use survey marks and a laser rangefinder, but
> having a
> >> portable GPS would make so much easier to fix errors where objects have
> been
> >> armchair mapped or even GPS mapped with errors up to 3 meters.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have tried three approaches
> >>
> >> QZSS – I can see this on my Android mobile phone but it doesn’t seem to
> be
> >> used. It seems as though I need a Japanese market device and even then
> I’m
> >> not sure I’ll get an increase
> >> Galileo – looks promising but when I’ve tested on supported devices
> >> (friends who have recent phones) the accuracy isn’t delivered. Further
> >> investigation shows that there aren’t enough satellites in service yet
> most
> >> of the day to give 4 visible. (Using GNSS View http://qzss.go.jp/en/
> 

Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[Leith Bade]

The GA claim is bit exaggerated. An cell phone is unlikely to ever get 3cm
as you just can't build a good GPS antenna in the form factor. Future self
driving cars however will be designed to meet this specification with mass
market RTK receivers (think sub $100) and correctly integrated antennas. I
think it will be 5 or more years before cm level car positioning is common
place.

Yes you can map to within 0.3cm, but what reference frame? E.g. the
Canberra imagery I've seen is in GDA94 which is ~1.8m away from the current
WGS84 reference frame. So I guess locally it might be accurate
street-to-street. But if you were to survey the road compared to data in
NSW it could all be shifted by a metres.


Thanks,
Leith Bade
le...@bade.nz

On 12 June 2018 at 20:29, Andrew Davidson  wrote:

> On 12/06/18 20:04, Leith Bade wrote:
>
>> Our receivers work fine in Australia as I live in Canberra and work for
>> the Swift Navigation engineering department. Using one of the free CORS
>> stations here I can get 2cm positions from my car. Mind you the setup cost
>> ~$2000.
>>
>
> This is the bit I'm a bit dubious about. The blurb on GA suggests that we
> are going to be getting 3cm accuracy from our smart phones, but I'm
> wondering how the development of GPS antennas small and cheap enough to go
> into phones is coming along.
>
>
> Unfortunately OpenStreetMaps only uses "WGS84" as it's datum which is not
>> that well defined compared to a surveying datum like GDA94/2020 or ITRF,
>> and most existing data has only been measured to a few metres (at most). So
>> I wouldn't worry too much about the drift as there are other larger sources
>> of error in OpenStreetMaps.
>>
>
> Reminds me of a paper I read on the the subject where the author pointed
> out that anyone who says they are mapping to "WGS84" doesn't know what they
> are talking about. However, I do think you are being a little pessimistic.
> So long as there is good aerial photography or some external dataset
> available it's possible to get closer. In Canberra, provided that the
> mapper traces carefully, you can easily map things to within 0.3m.
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[Grant Slater]

Hi All,

I have 2 of these for RTK GNSS receivers: https://emlid.com/reachrs/

1 ReachRS unit becomes the RTK static "base" and you needs a very
accurate position measurement and good signal. To get the most
accurate measurement I use my base and connect it to another base
using an NTRIP network. I'm in the United Kingdom and I connect to the
free NTRIP network available here: http://www.euref-ip.net/home . I've
also used the South African free NTRIP network trignet.co.za
Geoscience Australia seem to offer a NTRIP network here:
https://www.auscors.ga.gov.au/
Note that max workable distance between base and rover is only around
20km. I've got it to work at 80km, but needs exceptionally clear area
(unobstructed sky) and a lot of patience to get the position fix.

Once I have my static ReachRS measured, I then connect it up to the
2nd ReachRS as a roving unit via built-in radio or Cellphone. A
reasonable maximum distance between Base and Rover is around 20km.

The rover is good for measuring points, but starts to struggle if
moved above walking pace or has an obstructed sky (read: trees etc)
Repeatable accuracy is <10cm horizontal and similar vertical.

It is possible to do the above with a single unit if you can rely on
an existing NTRIP network, but I believe you then cannot then use the
GLONASS network for getting a fix due to different antenna types
between base and rover.

The ReachRS is a single frequency receiver and needs better signal and
is slower to sync than a dual frequency receiver. In the next year or
2 there are likely to be more dual frequency receivers from the likes
of u-blox. The swiftnav.com unit looks interesting.

The ReachRS receiver uses a u-blox Neo-M8T chip and the rtklib
software. A homebrew alternative would be to use
http://www.csgshop.com/product.php?id_product=257 and rtklib yourself.
See: https://www.blackdotgnss.com/2017/03/25/u-blox-neo-m8t-part-i/

Interest? Highly recommend blog: https://rtklibexplorer.wordpress.com/

Kind regards,

Grant


On 12 June 2018 at 10:58, Leith Bade  wrote:
> If you want to do RTK you can do it for less then $1000 now. The company I
> work for makes one of these lower cost options https://www.swiftnav.com. RTK
> enabled centimetre level positioning with a good $600 antenna.
>
> If you want to use the SBAS trial you need a receiver that allows you to
> select the SBAS satellite PRN ID of 122 and will allow a good receiver to
> get about ~1.5m accuracy. For example the Ublox receivers will work, as will
> most standalone GPS receivers
>
> Galileo is still under development, will offer similar performance to GPS.
> It will be another 2 years before this system is complete with all 24
> satellites.
>
>  Android devices are hard-coded by the manufacturer as far as the GPS
> settings so you would need to wait for an Android update that knows about
> the Australian satellite and QZSS (which might take several years to be
> common place).
>
> My recommendation is to look at standalone GPS receiver like a Ublox M8
> based device, that uses an external magnetic antenna you put on your car's
> roof.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Leith Bade
> le...@bade.nz
>
> On 12 June 2018 at 12:39, Alex Sims  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m really wanting to have better accuracy from GPS for use with
>> Openstreetmap. I can use survey marks and a laser rangefinder, but having a
>> portable GPS would make so much easier to fix errors where objects have been
>> armchair mapped or even GPS mapped with errors up to 3 meters.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have tried three approaches
>>
>> QZSS – I can see this on my Android mobile phone but it doesn’t seem to be
>> used. It seems as though I need a Japanese market device and even then I’m
>> not sure I’ll get an increase
>> Galileo – looks promising but when I’ve tested on supported devices
>> (friends who have recent phones) the accuracy isn’t delivered. Further
>> investigation shows that there aren’t enough satellites in service yet most
>> of the day to give 4 visible. (Using GNSS View http://qzss.go.jp/en/ English
>> text)
>> Lastly the SBAS trial from Geoscience Australia -
>> http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/positioning-navigation/positioning-for-the-future/satellite-based-augmentation-system
>> - nothing magical has happened with any of the consumer grade devices I have
>> access to. Also not sure how to test on an Android device if it is being
>> used.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone obtained sub-meter accuracy from any of these approaches, it
>> must be possible?
>>
>>
>>
>> Please discuss.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>

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Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[Andrew Davidson]

On 12/06/18 20:04, Leith Bade wrote:
Our receivers work fine in Australia as I live in Canberra and work for 
the Swift Navigation engineering department. Using one of the free CORS 
stations here I can get 2cm positions from my car. Mind you the setup 
cost ~$2000.


This is the bit I'm a bit dubious about. The blurb on GA suggests that 
we are going to be getting 3cm accuracy from our smart phones, but I'm 
wondering how the development of GPS antennas small and cheap enough to 
go into phones is coming along.



Unfortunately OpenStreetMaps only uses "WGS84" as it's datum which is 
not that well defined compared to a surveying datum like GDA94/2020 or 
ITRF, and most existing data has only been measured to a few metres (at 
most). So I wouldn't worry too much about the drift as there are other 
larger sources of error in OpenStreetMaps.


Reminds me of a paper I read on the the subject where the author pointed 
out that anyone who says they are mapping to "WGS84" doesn't know what 
they are talking about. However, I do think you are being a little 
pessimistic. So long as there is good aerial photography or some 
external dataset available it's possible to get closer. In Canberra, 
provided that the mapper traces carefully, you can easily map things to 
within 0.3m.


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Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[Leith Bade]

Our receivers work fine in Australia as I live in Canberra and work for the
Swift Navigation engineering department. Using one of the free CORS
stations here I can get 2cm positions from my car. Mind you the setup cost
~$2000.

Australia has only moved 1.8m since 1994.
http://theconversation.com/australia-on-the-move-how-gps-keeps-up-with-a-continent-in-constant-motion-71883

Unfortunately OpenStreetMaps only uses "WGS84" as it's datum which is not
that well defined compared to a surveying datum like GDA94/2020 or ITRF,
and most existing data has only been measured to a few metres (at most). So
I wouldn't worry too much about the drift as there are other larger sources
of error in OpenStreetMaps.

The SBAS trial is available to anyone with a receiver that can be set to
use PRN 122 (e.g. Ublox devices).


Thanks,
Leith Bade
le...@bade.nz

On 12 June 2018 at 12:56, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> If you use RTK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_kinematic you
> should get centimeter accuracy, but expect to pay $10k+.
>
> https://www.swiftnav.com seems like a cheaper option but not sure if it
> works in Australia and it not a consumer device, seems they just sell the
> boards.
>
> ...once you obtain sub-meter accuracy, keep in mind the whole continent is
> moving so even if you had no error in your GPS, a node someone entered in
> OSM in 2007 from GPS would be almost a meter out from someone entering it
> into OSM today.
>
> The SBAS trial was only aviable to selected people as part of the trial,
> does anyone know if it'll will work on regular devices, or will we need to
> run additional software, for Android, iOS?
>
> On 12 June 2018 at 12:39, Alex Sims  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m really wanting to have better accuracy from GPS for use with
>> Openstreetmap. I can use survey marks and a laser rangefinder, but having a
>> portable GPS would make so much easier to fix errors where objects have
>> been armchair mapped or even GPS mapped with errors up to 3 meters.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have tried three approaches
>>
>>- QZSS – I can see this on my Android mobile phone but it doesn’t
>>seem to be used. It seems as though I need a Japanese market device and
>>even then I’m not sure I’ll get an increase
>>- Galileo – looks promising but when I’ve tested on supported devices
>>(friends who have recent phones) the accuracy isn’t delivered. Further
>>investigation shows that there aren’t enough satellites in service yet 
>> most
>>of the day to give 4 visible. (Using GNSS View http://qzss.go.jp/en/
>>English text)
>>- Lastly the SBAS trial from Geoscience Australia -
>>http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/positioning-navigatio
>>n/positioning-for-the-future/satellite-based-augmentation-system
>>
>> 
>>- nothing magical has happened with any of the consumer grade devices I
>>have access to. Also not sure how to test on an Android device if it is
>>being used.
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone obtained sub-meter accuracy from any of these approaches, it
>> must be possible?
>>
>>
>>
>> Please discuss.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>>
>
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>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[Leith Bade]

If you want to do RTK you can do it for less then $1000 now. The company I
work for makes one of these lower cost options https://www.swiftnav.com.
RTK enabled centimetre level positioning with a good $600 antenna.

If you want to use the SBAS trial you need a receiver that allows you to
select the SBAS satellite PRN ID of 122 and will allow a good receiver to
get about ~1.5m accuracy. For example the Ublox receivers will work, as
will most standalone GPS receivers

Galileo is still under development, will offer similar performance to GPS.
It will be another 2 years before this system is complete with all 24
satellites.

 Android devices are hard-coded by the manufacturer as far as the GPS
settings so you would need to wait for an Android update that knows about
the Australian satellite and QZSS (which might take several years to be
common place).

My recommendation is to look at standalone GPS receiver like a Ublox M8
based device, that uses an external magnetic antenna you put on your car's
roof.


Thanks,
Leith Bade
le...@bade.nz

On 12 June 2018 at 12:39, Alex Sims  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> I’m really wanting to have better accuracy from GPS for use with
> Openstreetmap. I can use survey marks and a laser rangefinder, but having a
> portable GPS would make so much easier to fix errors where objects have
> been armchair mapped or even GPS mapped with errors up to 3 meters.
>
>
>
> I have tried three approaches
>
>- QZSS – I can see this on my Android mobile phone but it doesn’t seem
>to be used. It seems as though I need a Japanese market device and even
>then I’m not sure I’ll get an increase
>- Galileo – looks promising but when I’ve tested on supported devices
>(friends who have recent phones) the accuracy isn’t delivered. Further
>investigation shows that there aren’t enough satellites in service yet most
>of the day to give 4 visible. (Using GNSS View http://qzss.go.jp/en/
>English text)
>- Lastly the SBAS trial from Geoscience Australia -
>http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/positioning-
>navigation/positioning-for-the-future/satellite-based-
>augmentation-system
>
> 
>- nothing magical has happened with any of the consumer grade devices I
>have access to. Also not sure how to test on an Android device if it is
>being used.
>
>
>
> Has anyone obtained sub-meter accuracy from any of these approaches, it
> must be possible?
>
>
>
> Please discuss.
>
>
>
> Alex
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[Warin]

On 12/06/18 13:05, nwastra wrote:
There is expected to be improved gps accuracy in a few years time in 
Australia but unsure if usual gps units used by the public will show 
improved results but I expect they will.

http://www.ga.gov.au/news-events/news/latest-news/ceo-statement-on-budget-2018-19


Government talk 'a few years time' = beyond our next election. Could be 
10 years ... or never.




On 12 Jun 2018, at 12:56 PM, Andrew Harvey > wrote:


If you use RTK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_kinematic you 
should get centimeter accuracy, but expect to pay $10k+.


https://www.swiftnav.com  seems like a 
cheaper option but not sure if it works in Australia and it not a 
consumer device, seems they just sell the boards.
...once you obtain sub-meter accuracy, keep in mind the whole 
continent is moving so even if you had no error in your GPS, a node 
someone entered in OSM in 2007 from GPS would be almost a meter out 
from someone entering it into OSM today.


The SBAS trial was only aviable to selected people as part of the 
trial, does anyone know if it'll will work on regular devices, or 
will we need to run additional software, for Android, iOS?


On 12 June 2018 at 12:39, Alex Sims > wrote:


Hi,

I’m really wanting to have better accuracy from GPS for use with
Openstreetmap. I can use survey marks and a laser rangefinder,
but having a portable GPS would make so much easier to fix errors
where objects have been armchair mapped or even GPS mapped with
errors up to 3 meters.



Ha. 3 meters is the 'best' you might get. Typically it is 10 meters. And 
both those measurements are at 1 sigma.



I have tried three approaches

  * QZSS – I can see this on my Android mobile phone but it
doesn’t seem to be used. It seems as though I need a Japanese
market device and even then I’m not sure I’ll get an increase


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-Zenith_Satellite_System


  * Galileo – looks promising but when I’ve tested on supported
devices (friends who have recent phones) the accuracy isn’t
delivered. Further investigation shows that there aren’t
enough satellites in service yet most of the day to give 4
visible. (Using GNSS View http://qzss.go.jp/en/ English text)
  * Lastly the SBAS trial from Geoscience Australia -

http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/positioning-navigation/positioning-for-the-future/satellite-based-augmentation-system


- nothing magical has happened with any of the consumer grade
devices I have access to. Also not sure how to test on an
Android device if it is being used.


Has anyone obtained sub-meter accuracy from any of these
approaches, it must be possible?

Please discuss.


Theoretically possible. But
1) is it implemented - ie available for use.
2) are units available?
3) what accuracy is available at a 'realistic' price for consumer use?

Don't hold your breath.

You noticed the improvement with the inclusion of the Russian 
Satellites? ..
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Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[nwastra]

There is expected to be improved gps accuracy in a few years time in Australia 
but unsure if usual gps units used by the public will show improved results but 
I expect they will.
http://www.ga.gov.au/news-events/news/latest-news/ceo-statement-on-budget-2018-19

> On 12 Jun 2018, at 12:56 PM, Andrew Harvey  wrote:
> 
> If you use RTK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_kinematic 
>  you should get centimeter 
> accuracy, but expect to pay $10k+.
> 
> https://www.swiftnav.com  seems like a cheaper 
> option but not sure if it works in Australia and it not a consumer device, 
> seems they just sell the boards.
>  
> ...once you obtain sub-meter accuracy, keep in mind the whole continent is 
> moving so even if you had no error in your GPS, a node someone entered in OSM 
> in 2007 from GPS would be almost a meter out from someone entering it into 
> OSM today.
> 
> The SBAS trial was only aviable to selected people as part of the trial, does 
> anyone know if it'll will work on regular devices, or will we need to run 
> additional software, for Android, iOS?
> 
> On 12 June 2018 at 12:39, Alex Sims  > wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>  
> 
> I’m really wanting to have better accuracy from GPS for use with 
> Openstreetmap. I can use survey marks and a laser rangefinder, but having a 
> portable GPS would make so much easier to fix errors where objects have been 
> armchair mapped or even GPS mapped with errors up to 3 meters.
> 
>  
> 
> I have tried three approaches
> 
> QZSS – I can see this on my Android mobile phone but it doesn’t seem to be 
> used. It seems as though I need a Japanese market device and even then I’m 
> not sure I’ll get an increase
> Galileo – looks promising but when I’ve tested on supported devices (friends 
> who have recent phones) the accuracy isn’t delivered. Further investigation 
> shows that there aren’t enough satellites in service yet most of the day to 
> give 4 visible. (Using GNSS View http://qzss.go.jp/en/ 
>  English text)
> Lastly the SBAS trial from Geoscience Australia - 
> http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/positioning-navigation/positioning-for-the-future/satellite-based-augmentation-system
>  
> 
>  - nothing magical has happened with any of the consumer grade devices I have 
> access to. Also not sure how to test on an Android device if it is being used.
>  
> 
> Has anyone obtained sub-meter accuracy from any of these approaches, it must 
> be possible?
> 
>  
> 
> Please discuss.
> 
>  
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [talk-au] Increased precision options for Australia - QZSS, SBAS or Galileo

[Andrew Harvey]

If you use RTK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_kinematic you should
get centimeter accuracy, but expect to pay $10k+.

https://www.swiftnav.com seems like a cheaper option but not sure if it
works in Australia and it not a consumer device, seems they just sell the
boards.

...once you obtain sub-meter accuracy, keep in mind the whole continent is
moving so even if you had no error in your GPS, a node someone entered in
OSM in 2007 from GPS would be almost a meter out from someone entering it
into OSM today.

The SBAS trial was only aviable to selected people as part of the trial,
does anyone know if it'll will work on regular devices, or will we need to
run additional software, for Android, iOS?

On 12 June 2018 at 12:39, Alex Sims  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> I’m really wanting to have better accuracy from GPS for use with
> Openstreetmap. I can use survey marks and a laser rangefinder, but having a
> portable GPS would make so much easier to fix errors where objects have
> been armchair mapped or even GPS mapped with errors up to 3 meters.
>
>
>
> I have tried three approaches
>
>- QZSS – I can see this on my Android mobile phone but it doesn’t seem
>to be used. It seems as though I need a Japanese market device and even
>then I’m not sure I’ll get an increase
>- Galileo – looks promising but when I’ve tested on supported devices
>(friends who have recent phones) the accuracy isn’t delivered. Further
>investigation shows that there aren’t enough satellites in service yet most
>of the day to give 4 visible. (Using GNSS View http://qzss.go.jp/en/
>English text)
>- Lastly the SBAS trial from Geoscience Australia -
>http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/positioning-
>navigation/positioning-for-the-future/satellite-based-
>augmentation-system
>
> 
>- nothing magical has happened with any of the consumer grade devices I
>have access to. Also not sure how to test on an Android device if it is
>being used.
>
>
>
> Has anyone obtained sub-meter accuracy from any of these approaches, it
> must be possible?
>
>
>
> Please discuss.
>
>
>
> Alex
>
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