Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > > Do we have any objective way of deciding what is a "major through > > route within a local area" vs a "minor through route within a local > > area"? > > By definition, the definition will be dependent on the context. From > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway: "description of the > importance of the highway for the road grid." To get any useful > feedback from us, I suspect you will need to give us some context, in > terms of the "road grid" in the location you're talking about. > > Unfortunately, I think it boils down to this: make it secondary if > it's more important than nearby tertiary roads, and make it tertiary > if it's less important than nearby secondary roads. Iterate. > I just "downgraded" some roads in Dubbo which had been rated as highly as some of the named highways. They possibly should have been downgraded to tertiary, not secondary, but I don't know Dubbo well enough to decide. Anyone live in Dubbo or been there enough to check the internal road system? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On 14 June 2010 13:45, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 3:26 PM, John Smith wrote: >> Wouldn't most councils be using Australian/New Zealand Standards for >> things like this? >> >> In which case I'd be looking for the AS/NZ documents covering road >> classifications rather than going from the bottom up... > > Sure, do you know what it is? In in case though, you're going to need > a council document defining how each road is classified. The WA standards are at http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/UnderstandingRoads/FactsFigures/Pages/StateRoadNetworkMaps.aspx In Perth there's five road types defined: - Primary Distributor - District Distributor A - District Distributor B - Local Distributors - Access Roads And the regional road hierarchy is: - Primary Distributor - Regional Distributor - Local Distributor - Access Road There's an interactive map at http://gis.mainroads.wa.gov.au/roadinformationmap/ but the license is "The information on this webpage should not be republished or distributed in any form without the prior written consent of an authorised Main Roads staff member." so it's not much use for OSM. James ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On 14 June 2010 16:59, Ross Scanlon wrote: > Qld government one: > > http://www.qsic.qld.gov.au/qsic/qsic.nsf/CPByUNID/F9E572D8622697FB4A2576F0001171B9 It describes 13 road types: 1 Freeway/Motorway 2 Highway 3 Secondary Road 4 Local Connector Road 5 Street / Local Road 6 Private – non public road 7 Track 8 Mall 9 Construction line 10 Unconstructed 11 Ferry route 12 Bikeway / Walkway 13 Busway Qld => OSM 1 => motorway 2 => trunk 3 => secondary 4 => teritary 5 => residential/unclassified 6 => access=private 7 => track 8 => living_street 9 => construction 10 => proposed? 11 => ferry route 12 => this is expanded into multiple types 13 => route relations? access restrictions? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 15:51:21 +1000 John Smith wrote: > On 14 June 2010 15:45, Steve Bennett wrote: > > Sure, do you know what it is? In in case though, you're going to need > > a council document defining how each road is classified. > > Nope, others seem to either come across this as part of their work, or > know others that do. Qld government one: http://www.qsic.qld.gov.au/qsic/qsic.nsf/CPByUNID/F9E572D8622697FB4A2576F0001171B9 It also describes the standard for road names ie no abbreviations at all. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On 14 June 2010 15:45, Steve Bennett wrote: > Sure, do you know what it is? In in case though, you're going to need > a council document defining how each road is classified. Nope, others seem to either come across this as part of their work, or know others that do. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 3:26 PM, John Smith wrote: > Wouldn't most councils be using Australian/New Zealand Standards for > things like this? > > In which case I'd be looking for the AS/NZ documents covering road > classifications rather than going from the bottom up... Sure, do you know what it is? In in case though, you're going to need a council document defining how each road is classified. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On 14 June 2010 15:15, Steve Bennett wrote: > But: is combining state and council road classifications a feasible > approach? Presumably not every council will have a web-accessible > register of roads with this kind of classification. > > Comments? Wouldn't most councils be using Australian/New Zealand Standards for things like this? In which case I'd be looking for the AS/NZ documents covering road classifications rather than going from the bottom up... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 12:35 PM, John Smith wrote: > So then what makes a trunk a trunk? dual carriage way? volume of traffic? Just had a look at the VicRoads website - they only classify roads as freeway, arterial, or other. Do other state bodies do similar? At least as far as rural roads go, it would make sense to match the government classifications. That doesn't really help us with primary, secondary and tertiary though. Then again, I just found this from Glen Eira council (where the streets I mentioned are found): http://www.gleneira.vic.gov.au/Files/Register_of_public_roads.pdf Adding this onto the above list we would get: highway=motorway: Vicroads "freeway" highway=trunk: Vicroads "arterial" highway=primary: Glen Eira "collector" highway=secondary: Glen Eira "link" highway=tertiary: ??? highway=residential: Glen Eira "access" They classify these roads as: Normanby Rd: Link Neerim Rd: Collector Glen Huntly: Collector/Link Bambra Rd: Link Kambrook Rd: Link Booran Rd: Link But: is combining state and council road classifications a feasible approach? Presumably not every council will have a web-accessible register of roads with this kind of classification. Comments? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On 14 June 2010 11:30, Roy Wallace wrote: > Unfortunately, I think it boils down to this: make it secondary if > it's more important than nearby tertiary roads, and make it tertiary > if it's less important than nearby secondary roads. Iterate. That seems to be circular reasoning, it's also bound to send the tag what's on the ground crowd into a spin... Motorways are pretty obvious, although Liz has some ideas here about what constitutes a motorway with respect to some rural areas that are dual carriage way but have directly connected side roads, some even crossing over both directions of traffic flow, in her opinion this makes them trunks rather than motorway. Or do we use road planning oganisations that label a road way as freeway, motorway, etc as being a motorway? So then what makes a trunk a trunk? dual carriage way? volume of traffic? Then onto primary, obviously they aren't as well constructed or have the highway speeds as high as trunk or motorways, but they still would have a relatively high flow of traffic. Then onto secondary, these are lower than primary, but as you point out most of these classifications are relative to the immediate vacinity, and to a lesser degree to the rest of the country or what others have become accustomed to on other maps. Finally tertiary, residential and unclassified, the latter of those 3 gets used differently in Europe than it does Australia and it'd be nice to make this a little less ambiguous by the use of highway=rural and highway=minor or something similar. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Roy Wallace wrote: > By definition, the definition will be dependent on the context. From > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway: "description of the > importance of the highway for the road grid." To get any useful > feedback from us, I suspect you will need to give us some context, in > terms of the "road grid" in the location you're talking about. http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.885986&lon=145.038234&zoom=19 So let's consider: Neerim Rd, Booran Rd, Kambrook Rd, Grange Rd. Obviously, nearby Princes Highway is the most major road: trunk. Is North Road trunk or primary? Looks like it's been designated trunk. Ok. Stepping down, Glen Huntly Rd would be the next most major road. It's not a useful way to get anywhere, because it's so full of shopping strips, and hence traffic, but it's major, and runs all the way from Glen Huntly to the beach. Primary? Secondary? There's not much to distinguish it from the other east-west roads: Glen Eira, Balaclava, Inkerman, except it has trams. Next level down, Neerim Rd and Grange Rd take a lot of traffic, but they don't really connect anything in particular. Secondary? Booran Rd could be similar. And then finally you end up with Kambrook Rd and Normanby Rd, which seem more like high quality back streets than "major roads". Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > > Do we have any objective way of deciding what is a "major through > route within a local area" vs a "minor through route within a local > area"? By definition, the definition will be dependent on the context. From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway: "description of the importance of the highway for the road grid." To get any useful feedback from us, I suspect you will need to give us some context, in terms of the "road grid" in the location you're talking about. Unfortunately, I think it boils down to this: make it secondary if it's more important than nearby tertiary roads, and make it tertiary if it's less important than nearby secondary roads. Iterate. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Highway classifications
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > Wondering if any experts here could elaborate a bit on the definitions > of highway=primary, secondary, tertiary at > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines . > There were a few roads in my area (Glen Huntly) tagged as > highway=primary, even though they're pretty minor roads. I've changed > some to secondary, and some to tertiary, but I really don't have a > good feel for which should be which. > > Do we have any objective way of deciding what is a "major through > route within a local area" vs a "minor through route within a local > area"? As sure as I am about tagging roads for the first time, I like to be even more certain when modifying the work of another mapper. Consider a discussion first if you disagree. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Highway classifications
Wondering if any experts here could elaborate a bit on the definitions of highway=primary, secondary, tertiary at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines . There were a few roads in my area (Glen Huntly) tagged as highway=primary, even though they're pretty minor roads. I've changed some to secondary, and some to tertiary, but I really don't have a good feel for which should be which. Do we have any objective way of deciding what is a "major through route within a local area" vs a "minor through route within a local area"? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
