Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
On 2013-06-01 17:41, Johan C wrote : Will AGIV accept attribution on this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the data under ODbL? Note that a similar problem occurs when people add OSM data to Google Maps. You are free to copy, distribute, transmit and adapt our data, as long as you credit OpenStreetMap and its contributors. If you alter or build upon our data, you may distribute the result only under the same licence. ... For a browsable electronic map, the credit should appear in the corner of the map. For example: However, Google's general license http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/ is that any uploaded data becomes their property and that it's not allowed to copy it back !!! That's a blatant infringement of OSM's copyright !!! The corner of the map is obviously not applicable and the OSM source: tag must be used. But who knows where Google source tag is? It hurts me to see OSM people so meticulous and Google careless. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
I was also thinking that we could put their disclaimer along with the source mention on that page. Also Openstreetmap data comes with no warranties anyway. Nobody is going to follow the source chain and make a claim that data that made its way into OSM was wrong when it came from AGIV. It will simply be corrected and people will move on. Then we will need a way to detect difference between our data and theirs and feed back a report about it. Jo 2013/6/1 Johan C osm...@gmail.com Will AGIV accept attribution on this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the data under ODbL? Cheers, Johan 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com @marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-) I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.comwrote: So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers m. On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really help us a lot either. Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data? Jo 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Hi Again, Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand. *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.* Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015 but that descision was still to be made... Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the response. Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert pieter.colpa...@okfn.org wrote: Hi Ben, there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince AGIV to start using the right ones: http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/flemish-open-data-licenses/ Kind regards, Pieter On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: Bad news! The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence. The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on it and not copying would be ok... In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-) I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just geocoding on the main OSM-website. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com mailto:ben.abelshausen@gmail.**comben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
Hi all, Question is, if you write a tool which compares data, and people can then choose the correct point inside both datasets, who is then the rightful owner of the resulting dataset? Both organisations? Or all the people who entered the correct data manually? Another question, what's the legal difference between: - going to each house manually and - comparing/scraping datasets? Kind regards, Pieter On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: I was also thinking that we could put their disclaimer along with the source mention on that page. Also Openstreetmap data comes with no warranties anyway. Nobody is going to follow the source chain and make a claim that data that made its way into OSM was wrong when it came from AGIV. It will simply be corrected and people will move on. Then we will need a way to detect difference between our data and theirs and feed back a report about it. Jo 2013/6/1 Johan C osm...@gmail.com Will AGIV accept attribution on this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the data under ODbL? Cheers, Johan 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com @marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-) I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.comwrote: So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers m. On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really help us a lot either. Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data? Jo 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Hi Again, Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand. *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.* Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015 but that descision was still to be made... Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the response. Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert pieter.colpa...@okfn.org wrote: Hi Ben, there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince AGIV to start using the right ones: http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/flemish-open-data-licenses/ Kind regards, Pieter On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: Bad news! The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence. The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on it and not copying would be ok... In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-) I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just geocoding on the main OSM-website. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com mailto:ben.abelshausen@gmail.**comben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
2013/6/1 Pieter Colpaert pieter.colpa...@okfn.org Hi all, Question is, if you write a tool which compares data, and people can then choose the correct point inside both datasets, who is then the rightful owner of the resulting dataset? Both organisations? Or all the people who entered the correct data manually? Another question, what's the legal difference between: - going to each house manually and In this case we are taking note of our own observation independently of somebody's dataset. - comparing/scraping datasets? When comparing with somebody else's data it's important they are agreeable to such use of their data. Openstreetmap prefers to err on the safe side as far as this is concerned. It would be nice to have access to as many datasets as possible, so we can compare and try to draw conclusions from this. We are nice too, in the sense that we give all these sources the opportunity to check back and improve their own data in the process. Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers m. On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really help us a lot either. Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data? Jo 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Hi Again, Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand. *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.* Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015 but that descision was still to be made... Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the response. Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert pieter.colpa...@okfn.org wrote: Hi Ben, there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince AGIV to start using the right ones: http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/flemish-open-data-licenses/ Kind regards, Pieter On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: Bad news! The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence. The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on it and not copying would be ok... In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-) I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just geocoding on the main OSM-website. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com mailto:ben.abelshausen@gmail.**comben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
@marc: yes it's the best way to get accurate data anyway! :-) I'm not sure about the Flemish open data licenses, Pieter should know. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: So I'll keep on walking and surveying housenumbers m. On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:58 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not entirely convinced those Flemish open data licenses would really help us a lot either. Do they need a disclaimer shown on each and every rendering of the data? Jo 2013/5/30 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com Hi Again, Friday last week someone from AGIV called me to have a talk about the licence for CRAB and they will not change theirs for now. I also explained why we could not, similar to a commercial map provider, just add a disclaimer to our data. That is actually their only demand. *The orthofoto's is no problem, that has been confirmed again.* Anyway there was a bit of dissapointment on both sides about this. I also asked about the new Flemish open data licenses but they had no plans in that direction. There was even talk about closing the data again in 2015 but that descision was still to be made... Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: OK I will immediately reply with this to them. Curious about the response. Thanks again to open-data-Pieter! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Pieter Colpaert pieter.colpa...@okfn.org wrote: Hi Ben, there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince AGIV to start using the right ones: http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/**flemish-open-data-licenses/http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/flemish-open-data-licenses/ Kind regards, Pieter On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: Bad news! The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence. The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on it and not copying would be ok... In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-) I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just geocoding on the main OSM-website. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com mailto:ben.abelshausen@gmail.**comben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be __**_ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-behttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
Hi Ben, there is a clear deadline! The 14th of June they are doing the Flemish Open Data day on which they have to show their work. That day is going to advertise the Flemish open data licenses as well. We just need to convince AGIV to start using the right ones: http://okfn.be/2013/05/04/flemish-open-data-licenses/ Kind regards, Pieter On 05/17/2013 11:00 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: Bad news! The AGIV licence of the adressing data (CRAB) is NOT ok for reuse for OSM. I was in the process of requesting a licence. The story is: you can get the data but when a third person is reusing this they also need to sign a licence. This means that we cannot reuse this data in the OSM-database. At least not copying it, maybe mapping based on it and not copying would be ok... In my opinion this is not really open data, just free data as in beer! I did get a response that they are aware of this limitation and are working on this but there is no clear deadline. One day we will get this data, including reuse, but we are not really there yet. But maybe by then all addresses will be mapped already and OSM will be the reference! :-) I'm very sorry about getting everybody worked-up about finally being able to use this data but there was some misunderstanding about what usage in OSM meant. In our case mapping or copying the data instead of just geocoding on the main OSM-website. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com mailto:ben.abelshau...@gmail.com http://twitter.com/xivk ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
