Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 21/12/2020 11:14, Richard Fairhurst wrote: More philosophically, post towns violate the “on the ground” principle. No one here writes their address as Chipping Addresses used by local people can also violate the on the ground principle. The place name I was given when I moved in appears to

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

As others have said, having some uniform national scheme of places/areas that each address is assigned to is useful for anyone using addresses. No-one outside the local area will know which postal districts correspond to which areas, or even where many remote postal areas are. Local authorities

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

I agree. I suspect that the post town / dependent locality are correlated against the post code by the OCR processing. If there was no post town it would seriously degrade the scanning accuracy as the postcode OCR would need to be 100% accurate, which is not going to happen given the number of

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On Mon, 21 Dec 2020, at 4:35 PM, Colin Smale wrote: > London is the Post Town. Stratford and West Kensington are not relevant for > the delivery of post, apparently. Every day is a school day. You're right, those are Postal Districts, not towns. I was sure they used to recommend writing

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-21 17:11, Ken Kilfedder wrote: > If you search for an address on the RM website, I find that (at least in > London) it does not suggest the post town is used at all, just "London", not > "Stratford" or "West Kensington" or whatever. (I mean here- >

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 21/12/2020 15:48, Mark Goodge wrote: One of the reasons there are so many fields is that each field only ever contains a single type of data. There are no multi-purpose fields. So there are separate fields for name and number. And "number" is defined internally as an integer value,

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 21/12/2020 15:59, Adam Snape wrote: Hi, Post towns may be somewhat arbitrary, but they are at least a verifiable national scheme which we can use for addressing every location in the country. That has to have some benefits compared to each individual mapper deciding where they believe

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

If you search for an address on the RM website, I find that (at least in London) it does not suggest the post town is used at all, just "London", not "Stratford" or "West Kensington" or whatever. (I mean here- https://www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode ) ---

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

> I just add `name`="Fourth Row" to the `building=terrace` for simplicity, > although duplicating with `addr:housename` also seems OK. For these terraces in my neck of the woods, sometimes the numbering continues on the rest of the street. For these, I use a landuse=residential with name=

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Hi, Post towns may be somewhat arbitrary, but they are at least a verifiable national scheme which we can use for addressing every location in the country. That has to have some benefits compared to each individual mapper deciding where they believe each address falls - easy for many places,

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Hi, On 20/12/2020 15:50, Alan Mackie wrote: I'm also unclear how to tag numbered houses in named terraces. addr:housename doesn't seem appropriate if they are shared along an entire row and addr:street already has a value. In NE England there are a number of 1850ish - 1900ish terraces where

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 21/12/2020 15:07, Andy Mabbett wrote: On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 12:50, Colin Smale wrote: Royal Mail say that a house number must be numeric, and anything else (like Rose Cottage, 7A, 3-7, 11/13 etc) should go in the house name field. So in a row of three adjacent, identical houses,

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 21/12/2020 15:28, Colin Smale wrote: On 2020-12-21 16:07, Andy Mabbett wrote: On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 12:50, Colin Smale > wrote: Royal Mail say that a house number must be numeric, and anything else (like Rose Cottage, 7A, 3-7, 11/13 etc) should go in the

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-21 16:07, Andy Mabbett wrote: > On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 12:50, Colin Smale wrote: > >> Royal Mail say that a house number must be numeric, and anything else >> (like Rose Cottage, 7A, 3-7, 11/13 etc) should go in the house name field. > > So in a row of three adjacent, identical

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 12:50, Colin Smale wrote: > Royal Mail say that a house number must be numeric, and anything else > (like Rose Cottage, 7A, 3-7, 11/13 etc) should go in the house name field. So in a row of three adjacent, identical houses, known as 11, 11A, and 15, two have numbers and

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 12:02, Alan Mackie wrote: > > I struggle with what to call the in that example. > > A recent suggestion for named terraces was to use addr:street= > and addr:parentstreet=, but if the relates the > whole building to to parentstreet, then reconstructing an address seems

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-21 13:01, Alan Mackie wrote: > I struggle with what to call the in that example. > > A recent suggestion for named terraces was to use addr:street= > and addr:parentstreet=, but if the relates the > whole building to to parentstreet, then reconstructing an address seems >

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

I struggle with what to call the in that example. A recent suggestion for named terraces was to use addr:street= and addr:parentstreet=, but if the relates the whole building to to parentstreet, then reconstructing an address seems impossible. The closest existing tag seems to be

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

That's why RM have a Dependent Locality, to distinguish between cases like this. If the OSM addr:* tags are to represent postal addresses (and that seems to be the consensus) then OSM should offer a place for the Dependent Locality. RM say the Post Town is a mandatory component; why do you

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 21/12/2020 11:14, Richard Fairhurst wrote: More philosophically, post towns violate the “on the ground” principle. No one here writes their address as Chipping Norton unless PAF autocompletes it for them. No one has Chipping Norton on their letterhead. Trusting some remote third-party

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

At the risk of throwing another edge case into the pot (and mixing metaphors), can I ask how I should tag our flat? The Post Office Official postcode checker renders it as: Flat where refers to the whole block and is common to all the flats. I cannot see what the Post Office is calling the

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Robert Whittaker wrote: > On the basis that it's a required part of each address, I > would recommend that we do store the post town in OSM > addresses. There are significant advantages to storing it > in a consistent way, and the best existing tag to do this > would be addr:city. (We wouldn't

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-21 10:27, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: > Regarding properties (e.g. on named terraces or sub-streets), where > there are two street names (Thoroughfare and Dependent Throughourfare > in Rail Mail terminology) then we need a second key to store the other > street name under.

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Like it or not, in the UK addresses are defined by Royal Mail. They're introduced the concept of a "postal town", and this is one of the few common elements that each address must always have. Once you accept that the Post Town is intended to be a nearby significant place (to help with delivery

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 20/12/2020 23:21, SK53 wrote: I'm aware of a number of terraces which are discontinuous, demonstrating that individual houses in a terrace are not building:part. There is a set of maisonettes, which are both semi-detached horizontally, and split into four groups, with roads between them,

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

I don't think you can *deduce* the post town from the postcode, but you can look it up, using the (non-open) PAF. You will need to use the full postcode though, as sectors can be split amongst multiple post towns. Let's not drift too far from the original topic of how to represent addresses. How

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Personally, I think this is still a sort of kludge, although no worse than the ones I discussed in my blog pos t. I'm aware of a number of terraces which are discontinuous, demonstrating that individual houses in a

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 20:24, ipswichmap...@tutanota.com wrote: > The housenumber and street would be tagged on the "building:part=house" > > Is this housrnumber belonging to the terrace or is it belonging to the > street? If it belongs to the terrace, I think even with this tagging software > wouldnt

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

The housenumber and street would be tagged on the "building:part=house" Is this housrnumber belonging to the terrace or is it belonging to the street? If it belongs to the terrace, I think even with this tagging software wouldnt recognise this. In that case, this is the tagging O use (its not

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 20/12/2020 18:44, ipswichmapper--- via Talk-GB wrote: What you do is give the outline way "buildong=terrace" and "name=" and all the houses with "building:part=house". The software can then tell that all those houses are part of the terrace called This is a good solution. I usually

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 20/12/2020 16:09, Chris Hill wrote Using the two separate towns is not correct. The house (or whatever) is not in Largertown,it is in Smalltown. By convention addr:* tags are for addressing, not for mapping administrative boundaries. For the latter we can use is_in tags, although explicit

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

That still doesn't answer the addr: tag question. I don't think we'd normally expect consumers to need to do such detailed geometry parsing for address to interpretation. I think we need a firmer scheme for divisions of privately managed stuff e.g. business parks apartment 'complexes' and the

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 19:44, ipswichmap...@tutanota.com wrote: > What you do is give the outline way "buildong=terrace" and > "name=" and all the houses with "building:part=house". The > software can then tell that all those houses are part of the terrace called > So in the case like I referred to

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

What you do is give the outline way "buildong=terrace" and "name=" and all the houses with "building:part=house". The software can then tell that all those houses are part of the terrace called -- 20 Dec 2020, 17:30 by colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: > > On 2020-12-20 18:21, ipswichmapper--- via

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 18:21, ipswichmapper--- via Talk-GB wrote: > Tag the houses with addr:place maybe? IMHO a house is not a place > Or, better method is to use the alternative terrace taggong scheme where each > house is tagged as building:part=house within a larger building=terrace. > (Terracer

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Tag the houses with addr:place maybe? Or, better method is to use the alternative terrace taggong scheme where each house is tagged as building:part=house within a larger building=terrace.  (Terracer plugin lets you do this if you check "keep outline way") IpswichMapper-- 20 Dec 2020,

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 17:16, Chris Hill wrote: > On 20/12/2020 14:57, Colin Smale wrote: > > On 2020-12-20 15:41, Chris Hill wrote: > Addresses in OSM are not the same as Royal Mail's addresses. RM addresses are > all about their processes for delivering post to delivery points. The postal > town

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 17:09, Chris Hill wrote: > On 20/12/2020 15:30, ndrw wrote: On 20/12/2020 12:45, Dave Abbott wrote: > There is a page at > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/UK_Address_Mapping which > mentions "suggested tags" but there is no evidence that this is in use. If >

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 20/12/2020 14:57, Colin Smale wrote: On 2020-12-20 15:41, Chris Hill wrote: Addresses in OSM are not the same as Royal Mail's addresses. RM addresses are all about their processes for delivering post to delivery points. The postal town (Largertown in your example) is a convenience for

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 20/12/2020 15:30, ndrw wrote: On 20/12/2020 12:45, Dave Abbott wrote: There is a page at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/UK_Address_Mapping which mentions "suggested tags" but there is no evidence that this is in use. If correct I would be tagging as - addr:housenumber=99

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 16:30, ndrw wrote: > On 20/12/2020 12:45, Dave Abbott wrote: > >> There is a page at >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/UK_Address_Mapping which >> mentions "suggested tags" but there is no evidence that this is in use. If >> correct I would be tagging as - >>

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

I'm also unclear how to tag numbered houses in named terraces. addr:housename doesn't seem appropriate if they are shared along an entire row and addr:street already has a value. I've also run into this for blocks of flats. "Block B" doesn't seem like a housename either? The addr:block tags

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 20/12/2020 12:45, Dave Abbott wrote: There is a page at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Rjw62/UK_Address_Mapping which mentions "suggested tags" but there is no evidence that this is in use. If correct I would be tagging as - addr:housenumber=99 addr:street=Postal Street

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Postal Town may be "mandatory", but it is not really needed. When presenting a parcel at my local post office recently, to be sent by the "signed for" service, they wanted to have the senders address on the reverse, so that it could be used as a return address, in the event of non-delivery. All

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 15:41, Chris Hill wrote: > Addresses in OSM are not the same as Royal Mail's addresses. RM addresses are > all about their processes for delivering post to delivery points. The postal > town (Largertown in your example) is a convenience for RM that we have all > been persuaded is

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Addresses in OSM are not the same as Royal Mail's addresses. RM addresses are all about their processes for delivering post to delivery points. The postal town (Largertown in your example) is a convenience for RM that we have all been persuaded is useful, but RM have ceased to use postal towns

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 14:39, ipswichmap...@tutanota.com wrote: > It's not just administrative boundaries. If you mark points with > "place=suburb", "place=town" etc. that will also be used. > > In this case it is clearly difficult to tell which tags to use, so I would > just not use them and let

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

It's not just administrative boundaries. If you mark points with "place=suburb", "place=town" etc. that will also be used. In this case it is clearly difficult to tell which tags to use, so I would just not use them and let nominatim figure out. Unless someone else a clearer solution, that is.

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

On 2020-12-20 14:13, ipswichmapper--- via Talk-GB wrote: > Marking city, town etc is not necessary in UK because Geocoders like > nominatim can figure those out using afministrative boundaries. Postal addresses have no relation to administrative boundaries. They are simply "what you need to put

Re: [Talk-GB] UK street addressing

Marking city, town etc is not necessary in UK because Geocoders like nominatim can figure those out using afministrative boundaries. What is important is the housenumber and street: "addr:housenumber=99 addr:street= Postal Street" And postcode: "addr:postcode=XY9 7GY" Note, all postcodes are