Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
Just went on the mobile website from my Nexus phone and it looks much better than before, really can't see a problem with the mobile version of the new osm. At the same time, you can never, ever, please everybody... Also, I don't think it wise to talk about turning others away when not many others have actually expressed concerns. I say, let's let the time tell, based on the website stats in a month or so. Chris F. On 1 Dec 2013 18:04, ael law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: In regards to the comment about wanting a [x] button on the welcome text, it does disappear for logged in users and small screen devices. As for non Now it has gone live, I have to say that it is a disaster and likely to turn me and others from OSM. We take all this trouble to create a beautiful and useful map and it is ruined by this stupid permanent window obscuring a large part of the map on small screen devices. It is a waste of time to login when I am not actively mapping and seriously unfriendly. Not to mention the bother of looking up my password (which is quite strong) each time. Now what was the fork of OSM called? Informationhighway? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
+1 for a close button. That box just screams at me to be closed - my brain wants to see what's behind it! Not sure what communication went out about this notifying the community of the date of implementation - I certainly wasn't aware of anything. I saw lots of discussion about the design but the first I knew about implementation was when I saw it live. Surely we can do better than this? Regards Brian On 1 December 2013 18:03, ael law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: In regards to the comment about wanting a [x] button on the welcome text, it does disappear for logged in users and small screen devices. As for non Now it has gone live, I have to say that it is a disaster and likely to turn me and others from OSM. We take all this trouble to create a beautiful and useful map and it is ruined by this stupid permanent window obscuring a large part of the map on small screen devices. It is a waste of time to login when I am not actively mapping and seriously unfriendly. Not to mention the bother of looking up my password (which is quite strong) each time. Now what was the fork of OSM called? Informationhighway? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
I think you've just summed up the real power of Open Data, specifically Open Map Data. If you don't like how it is rendered then choose another renderer or render the data yourself. So cool! Everyone's happy. Try viewing Google's or Microsoft's data some other way if you don't like their rendering! Jonathan http://bigfatfrog67.me On 01/12/2013 18:03, ael wrote: In regards to the comment about wanting a [x] button on the welcome text, it does disappear for logged in users and small screen devices. As for non Now it has gone live, I have to say that it is a disaster and likely to turn me and others from OSM. We take all this trouble to create a beautiful and useful map and it is ruined by this stupid permanent window obscuring a large part of the map on small screen devices. It is a waste of time to login when I am not actively mapping and seriously unfriendly. Not to mention the bother of looking up my password (which is quite strong) each time. Now what was the fork of OSM called? Informationhighway? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
But Brian, why aren't you logged in? It's not there then. Jonathan http://bigfatfrog67.me On 01/12/2013 18:45, Brian Prangle wrote: +1 for a close button. That box just screams at me to be closed - my brain wants to see what's behind it! Not sure what communication went out about this notifying the community of the date of implementation - I certainly wasn't aware of anything. I saw lots of discussion about the design but the first I knew about implementation was when I saw it live. Surely we can do better than this? Regards Brian On 1 December 2013 18:03, ael law_ence@ntlworld.com mailto:law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: In regards to the comment about wanting a [x] button on the welcome text, it does disappear for logged in users and small screen devices. As for non Now it has gone live, I have to say that it is a disaster and likely to turn me and others from OSM. We take all this trouble to create a beautiful and useful map and it is ruined by this stupid permanent window obscuring a large part of the map on small screen devices. It is a waste of time to login when I am not actively mapping and seriously unfriendly. Not to mention the bother of looking up my password (which is quite strong) each time. Now what was the fork of OSM called? Informationhighway? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
At least they could have the grace to spell licence correctly. On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote: +1 for a close button. That box just screams at me to be closed - my brain wants to see what's behind it! Not sure what communication went out about this notifying the community of the date of implementation - I certainly wasn't aware of anything. I saw lots of discussion about the design but the first I knew about implementation was when I saw it live. Surely we can do better than this? Regards Brian On 1 December 2013 18:03, ael law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: In regards to the comment about wanting a [x] button on the welcome text, it does disappear for logged in users and small screen devices. As for non Now it has gone live, I have to say that it is a disaster and likely to turn me and others from OSM. We take all this trouble to create a beautiful and useful map and it is ruined by this stupid permanent window obscuring a large part of the map on small screen devices. It is a waste of time to login when I am not actively mapping and seriously unfriendly. Not to mention the bother of looking up my password (which is quite strong) each time. Now what was the fork of OSM called? Informationhighway? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
Or at the very least choose one spelling and stick with it! http://bigfatfrog67.me On 01/12/2013 18:51, Richard Mann wrote: At least they could have the grace to spell licence correctly. On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com mailto:bpran...@gmail.com wrote: +1 for a close button. That box just screams at me to be closed - my brain wants to see what's behind it! Not sure what communication went out about this notifying the community of the date of implementation - I certainly wasn't aware of anything. I saw lots of discussion about the design but the first I knew about implementation was when I saw it live. Surely we can do better than this? Regards Brian On 1 December 2013 18:03, ael law_ence@ntlworld.com mailto:law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: In regards to the comment about wanting a [x] button on the welcome text, it does disappear for logged in users and small screen devices. As for non Now it has gone live, I have to say that it is a disaster and likely to turn me and others from OSM. We take all this trouble to create a beautiful and useful map and it is ruined by this stupid permanent window obscuring a large part of the map on small screen devices. It is a waste of time to login when I am not actively mapping and seriously unfriendly. Not to mention the bother of looking up my password (which is quite strong) each time. Now what was the fork of OSM called? Informationhighway? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
Brian, (I tried my best to communicate this change - oh, and it was also at SOTM 2013 :-P ) I agree that these changes should be communicated better which is exactly why I posted news of this change to both the talk and talk-gb mailing list a few weeks ago. I was only aware of it's imminent go-live the day before (when I spotted it was listed as merged, awaiting go live on the github pages). Sorry I didn't post here, but the feedback you guys provided had gone quiet. For most users, you just need to log-in and tick the always stay logged in button and the welcome box will go. As an often requested feature I am sure that someone will write the required code to add a close button (or my preference - an up/down arrow to roll it up/down as required), but there will also need to be a way to bring it back. Regards, Rob p.s. I have nothing to do this the redesign other than trying to communicate it to you, so please don't shoot the messenger. On 1 December 2013 18:45, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote: +1 for a close button. That box just screams at me to be closed - my brain wants to see what's behind it! Not sure what communication went out about this notifying the community of the date of implementation - I certainly wasn't aware of anything. I saw lots of discussion about the design but the first I knew about implementation was when I saw it live. Surely we can do better than this? Regards Brian On 1 December 2013 18:03, ael law_ence@ntlworld.com wrote: In regards to the comment about wanting a [x] button on the welcome text, it does disappear for logged in users and small screen devices. As for non Now it has gone live, I have to say that it is a disaster and likely to turn me and others from OSM. We take all this trouble to create a beautiful and useful map and it is ruined by this stupid permanent window obscuring a large part of the map on small screen devices. It is a waste of time to login when I am not actively mapping and seriously unfriendly. Not to mention the bother of looking up my password (which is quite strong) each time. Now what was the fork of OSM called? Informationhighway? ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
On 01/12/13 19:14, Brian Prangle wrote: @Rob - I know you communicated this change and asked for feedback for which I'm grateful- I'm just pissed off that there was no obvious communication of the date of implementation - at best that's just unprofessionally poor communication, at worst it's taking the community for granted. Why does the date of implementation matter? There was a long discussion with, thanks to Rob, much more community involvement that any previous changes. Those comments were discussed and many changes and improvements made and the discussion had largely come to an end so I did a technical review of the code and got a few more issues fixed and then merged it. I would probably have left it longer after the merge before going live except that yesterday was a a hack day when we had lots of people in one place and ready to fix issues and such like so it seemed like a sensible time to do it. What difference would it have made to you to have been told a specific date and time? That's not an attempt to be nasty or anything, it's a genuine question so we can try and do things better in the future. If we have announced it would go live at 11am yesterday what things would you have done differently as a result? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
On 1 December 2013 19:03, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: For most users, you just need to log-in and tick the always stay logged in button and the welcome box will go. As an often requested feature I am sure that someone will write the required code to add a close button (or my preference - an up/down arrow to roll it up/down as required), but there will also need to be a way to bring it back. What's the workaround for users that do not wish to retain cookies? Oliver ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
Hi, On 01.12.2013 21:00, Oliver Jowett wrote: What's the workaround for users that do not wish to retain cookies? GreaseMonkey could be an option. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
On 1 December 2013 20:19, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 01.12.2013 21:00, Oliver Jowett wrote: What's the workaround for users that do not wish to retain cookies? GreaseMonkey could be an option. The barrier to entry in setting that up is a bit high for me unfortunately (unless you have a script already prepared?) Richard's pull request sounds like it'll work for me (I don't mind clicking a close box each time), so +1 for that. Oliver ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
Hi, On 01.12.2013 21:32, Oliver Jowett wrote: The barrier to entry in setting that up is a bit high for me unfortunately (unless you have a script already prepared?) This'll do: // ==UserScript== // @name Remove OSM welcome box // @include http://www.openstreetmap.org/* // ==/UserScript== var welcome = $(div.welcome); if (welcome) welcome.remove (); Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Upcoming changes to OpenStreetMap.org website
On 1 December 2013 20:46, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 01.12.2013 21:32, Oliver Jowett wrote: The barrier to entry in setting that up is a bit high for me unfortunately (unless you have a script already prepared?) This'll do: Works like a charm! Thanks :) Oliver ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Ashamed to be a part of the OSM GB community
Richard Fairhurst wrote: Thirdly; there is no they, only we. OSM, all of it, map and code equally, is made by its contributors. So when Brian says Surely we can do better than this?: Yes. We can. But only if you're prepared to be part of the we. The main problem with that statement is that not all of us time time to learn yet another environment and method of working. I'm on github, mirroring to HG locally for compatibility with other projects, but I simply don't have time to dig into Ruby. Python and Java is bad enough to fix problems with my development tools which to some extent I'm driven to use to provide a good PHP development platform. I wasted many days playing with bits which were working at one time, but changes in other areas has broken them again. Unfortunately the playing field is not flat, so we have to live with what others 'provide' with little acceptance of other usages of the data. I'll repeat what I've said on the main talk list ... the new front end is TOO targeted at pushing visitors to become mappers. I don't actually have a problem with that ... however the follow up pages lack a LOT of sensible information for NEW mappers and that needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. The 'About' page is simply NOT 'Learn More' but is exactly 'About OSM', so some other path needs to be provided to help even for the tools ON the new front end. I'm trying to work out what 'Export' is intended to do, and some help on how things like the 'Share' now works would be nice ( my notes still relate to the OLD tools! ). HELP should be available on actually using the map as it is configured now ... But what I'm looking to providing is a decent 'Large View' which has promotional material and other links on the ONE page. If you come to the site from an embeded map it IS a case of 'what the f**k' ... I've had a second call about this already this weekend and I'm expecting many more tomorrow when users get back to work although it will probably over the next weeks as people come accross it :( THAT is why a proper announcement ON THE SITE ITSELF that it was going to change would have been helpful ... just like when the style change was dropped on us with little notification! Does no one learn? If I've got to create my own independent site to do this then OK. I did have OSRM running, but keeping our own mirrors up to date is simply NOT supported well currently !!! No way can I support a whole world map, I need something that mirrors the UK area in something less than the 2 or 3 week cycle of some mirrors :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
