Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Brian Prangle]

Hi Ben

Congratulations! You will no doubt get much practical assistance from
individual OSMers but if there's any organisational assistance I'm sure the
OSM UK chapter will do its best to assist - after all this was one of our
first priorities!

Regards

brian

On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:

> Hi all
>
> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>
> This is our announcement
>
> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>
> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>
> We hope to:
> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
> project)
> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to encourage
> more mapping in Wales
> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
> language uses
>
> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>
> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but I'm
> conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>
> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any suggestions,
> insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc would be
> very gratefully received.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Ben Proctor
> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Miguel Sevilla-Callejo]

Very good news!

I was "fighting" last summer about the use of Welsh in OSM, here [0], here
[1] and here [2]

You could have a look in to the wiki [3] too

Have luck!

[0] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/50943658

[1a] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2017-July/020416.html
[1b]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2017-August/020465.html

[2] https://twitter.com/msevilla00/status/895940842321567744

[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Wales

--
*Miguel Sevilla-Callejo*
Doctor en Geografía

On 15 November 2017 at 15:55, Ben Proctor  wrote:

>
>
> On 15 November 2017 at 14:38, SK53  wrote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Good to hear.
>>
>> I actually have a version of Carto-CSS which displays welsh names when
>> present. It merely replaces all instances of name in the Carto-CSS queries
>> with a more complicated bit of SQL. For complicated logistical reasons I
>> haven't uploaded this to github, but can put aside some time to do so now.
>> The style also has blue motorways!
>>
>
> Hi Jerry
>
>
>
> That's excellent. Especially the motorways :-)
>
>
>>
>> Less successfully I have been trying to create a welsh name transparent
>> overlay. This would be useful for places like Leicester Liverpool and
>> London which have Welsh names but are outside the principality. A full set
>> of tiles covering the UK for a handful of names is overkill. Apart from
>> styling issues (finding colours and offsets which are legible with the main
>> carto style), the biggest issue is names of areas which are multi-line and
>> of variable size, and therefore more or less impossible to offset so that
>> both the Welsh name & the name on the Carto style are visible.
>>
>
> There are a number of things we'd like to get into once we've done this
> bit:
> - the idea of creating a Welsh language Atlas of the UK and the world is
> very attractive (but definitely a phase 2 development)
> - the discussion about how to handle English and Welsh side by side is
> something to work through. Though there is a use case for a Welsh language
> only render there are also use cases for Bilingual renders. (phase 2 again)
> a transparent overlay sounds like a very interesting angle...
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
>>> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>>>
>>> This is our announcement
>>>
>>> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>>
>>> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
>>> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
>>> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>>>
>>> We hope to:
>>> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
>>> project)
>>> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to
>>> encourage more mapping in Wales
>>> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
>>> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
>>> language uses
>>>
>>> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
>>> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
>>> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>>>
>>> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but
>>> I'm conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
>>> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>>>
>>> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any
>>> suggestions, insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc
>>> would be very gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ben Proctor
>>> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ben Proctor
> Technical Director
> b...@satorilab.org | @likeaword | 07904 1234 98
> *The Satori Lab*, 22 Windsor Place Cardiff. CF10 3BY Wales, UK
>
>
> The Satori Lab Ltd is a company registered in Wales.
> Registered number: 8857719.
> Registered office: 22 Windsor Place, Cardiff, CF10 3BY
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Andy Townsend]

https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=10=51.8697=-5.068 
also shows Welsh names in Welsh-speaking parts of Wales (using a .poly 
from Jerry, actually), but that's really a solution to a different 
problem (described at 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/42069 ).


On 15/11/2017 15:24, SK53 wrote:
I heartily agree that both english & welsh names need to be shown side 
by side, for this reason can I suggest that when editing names to add 
a Welsh name if the existing name is English (London Road for 
instance) also add a name:en tag. If we can work just with name:cy & 
name:en tags in rendering we can achieve a lot more.


"Displaying side by side" (perhaps one bracketed after the other) is 
very doable in lua; 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=18=53.233295=-0.991688 
is an example of that in another context.


The basic overlay idea works for street & place names (and one can 
offset welsh language names in one direction and english names in the 
opposite ones. Finding colours which dont create conflicts and 
legibility issues is another thing. I'll see if I can fish out an 
example from my carto rendering experiments.


I suspect that an overlay may not be the way to go (if possible) because 
you won't get collision avoidance between the overlay and the main 
map*.  Here's an example of that: 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=16=53.2387=-1.01152 
those two names apply to the same bit of track but Mapnik's clever 
enough to ensure there's no clash.


Best Regards,

Andy

* although maybe having the overlay also containing every other piece of 
text, but in "transparent on a transparent background", may work!


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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[SK53]

I heartily agree that both english & welsh names need to be shown side by
side, for this reason can I suggest that when editing names to add a Welsh
name if the existing name is English (London Road for instance) also add a
name:en tag. If we can work just with name:cy & name:en tags in rendering
we can achieve a lot more.

The basic overlay idea works for street & place names (and one can offset
welsh language names in one direction and english names in the opposite
ones. Finding colours which dont create conflicts and legibility issues is
another thing. I'll see if I can fish out an example from my carto
rendering experiments.

Jerry


On 15 November 2017 at 14:55, Ben Proctor  wrote:

>
>
> On 15 November 2017 at 14:38, SK53  wrote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Good to hear.
>>
>> I actually have a version of Carto-CSS which displays welsh names when
>> present. It merely replaces all instances of name in the Carto-CSS queries
>> with a more complicated bit of SQL. For complicated logistical reasons I
>> haven't uploaded this to github, but can put aside some time to do so now.
>> The style also has blue motorways!
>>
>
> Hi Jerry
>
>
>
> That's excellent. Especially the motorways :-)
>
>
>>
>> Less successfully I have been trying to create a welsh name transparent
>> overlay. This would be useful for places like Leicester Liverpool and
>> London which have Welsh names but are outside the principality. A full set
>> of tiles covering the UK for a handful of names is overkill. Apart from
>> styling issues (finding colours and offsets which are legible with the main
>> carto style), the biggest issue is names of areas which are multi-line and
>> of variable size, and therefore more or less impossible to offset so that
>> both the Welsh name & the name on the Carto style are visible.
>>
>
> There are a number of things we'd like to get into once we've done this
> bit:
> - the idea of creating a Welsh language Atlas of the UK and the world is
> very attractive (but definitely a phase 2 development)
> - the discussion about how to handle English and Welsh side by side is
> something to work through. Though there is a use case for a Welsh language
> only render there are also use cases for Bilingual renders. (phase 2 again)
> a transparent overlay sounds like a very interesting angle...
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
>>> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>>>
>>> This is our announcement
>>>
>>> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>>
>>> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
>>> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
>>> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>>>
>>> We hope to:
>>> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
>>> project)
>>> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to
>>> encourage more mapping in Wales
>>> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
>>> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
>>> language uses
>>>
>>> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
>>> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
>>> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>>>
>>> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but
>>> I'm conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
>>> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>>>
>>> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any
>>> suggestions, insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc
>>> would be very gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ben Proctor
>>> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ben Proctor
> Technical Director
> b...@satorilab.org | @likeaword | 07904 1234 98
> *The Satori Lab*, 22 Windsor Place Cardiff. CF10 3BY Wales, UK
> 
>
>
> The Satori Lab Ltd is a company registered in Wales.
> Registered number: 8857719.
> Registered office: 22 Windsor Place, Cardiff, CF10 3BY
> 
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Ben Proctor]

On 15 November 2017 at 14:38, SK53  wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> Good to hear.
>
> I actually have a version of Carto-CSS which displays welsh names when
> present. It merely replaces all instances of name in the Carto-CSS queries
> with a more complicated bit of SQL. For complicated logistical reasons I
> haven't uploaded this to github, but can put aside some time to do so now.
> The style also has blue motorways!
>

Hi Jerry



That's excellent. Especially the motorways :-)


>
> Less successfully I have been trying to create a welsh name transparent
> overlay. This would be useful for places like Leicester Liverpool and
> London which have Welsh names but are outside the principality. A full set
> of tiles covering the UK for a handful of names is overkill. Apart from
> styling issues (finding colours and offsets which are legible with the main
> carto style), the biggest issue is names of areas which are multi-line and
> of variable size, and therefore more or less impossible to offset so that
> both the Welsh name & the name on the Carto style are visible.
>

There are a number of things we'd like to get into once we've done this bit:
- the idea of creating a Welsh language Atlas of the UK and the world is
very attractive (but definitely a phase 2 development)
- the discussion about how to handle English and Welsh side by side is
something to work through. Though there is a use case for a Welsh language
only render there are also use cases for Bilingual renders. (phase 2 again)
a transparent overlay sounds like a very interesting angle...


>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
> On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
>> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>>
>> This is our announcement
>>
>> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>>
>> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
>> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
>> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>>
>> We hope to:
>> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
>> project)
>> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to
>> encourage more mapping in Wales
>> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
>> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
>> language uses
>>
>> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
>> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
>> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>>
>> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but
>> I'm conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
>> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>>
>> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any suggestions,
>> insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc would be
>> very gratefully received.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> --
>> Ben Proctor
>> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>>
>


-- 
Ben Proctor
Technical Director
b...@satorilab.org | @likeaword | 07904 1234 98
*The Satori Lab*, 22 Windsor Place Cardiff. CF10 3BY Wales, UK


The Satori Lab Ltd is a company registered in Wales.
Registered number: 8857719.
Registered office: 22 Windsor Place, Cardiff, CF10 3BY
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Re: [Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[SK53]

Hi Ben,

Good to hear.

I actually have a version of Carto-CSS which displays welsh names when
present. It merely replaces all instances of name in the Carto-CSS queries
with a more complicated bit of SQL. For complicated logistical reasons I
haven't uploaded this to github, but can put aside some time to do so now.
The style also has blue motorways!

Less successfully I have been trying to create a welsh name transparent
overlay. This would be useful for places like Leicester Liverpool and
London which have Welsh names but are outside the principality. A full set
of tiles covering the UK for a handful of names is overkill. Apart from
styling issues (finding colours and offsets which are legible with the main
carto style), the biggest issue is names of areas which are multi-line and
of variable size, and therefore more or less impossible to offset so that
both the Welsh name & the name on the Carto style are visible.

Regards,

Jerry

On 15 November 2017 at 13:31, Ben Proctor  wrote:

> Hi all
>
> The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
> some work around the Welsh language on OSM.
>
> This is our announcement
>
> In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
> and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
>
> In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at
> the last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
> getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.
>
> We hope to:
> - create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
> project)
> - do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to encourage
> more mapping in Wales
> - encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
> more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh
> language uses
>
> The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be
> looking for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
> infrastructure viable into the medium term.
>
> We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but I'm
> conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
> Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.
>
> We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any suggestions,
> insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc would be
> very gratefully received.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Ben Proctor
> ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Welsh language map

[Ben Proctor]

Hi all

The Welsh Government announced yesterday a grant to ODI-Cardiff to fund
some work around the Welsh language on OSM.

This is our announcement

In English http://cardiff.theodi.org/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/
and in Welsh http://cardiff.theodi.org/cy/2017/11/14/map-i-gymru/

In the way of these things, the funding application was put together at the
last minute and, though we heard a couple of weeks ago that we would be
getting the grant we couldn't talk about it publicly until yesterday.

We hope to:
- create a Welsh language tileserver (building on the excellent cysom
project)
- do some work to encourage tagging in the Welsh language and to encourage
more mapping in Wales
- encourage organisations in Wales (including the public sector) to make
more use of OSM including by demonstrating one or two simple Welsh language
uses

The funding covers a project until end of March and we will also be looking
for opportunities for ongoing funding/support to keep the server
infrastructure viable into the medium term.

We have contacted a few people off list to talk about this project but I'm
conscious that there are people who have been very actively mapping in
Wales for some time who we haven't had the chance to contact.

We really hope to work with the whole community on this. Any suggestions,
insights, ideas, "definitely don't do this..." experiences etc would be
very gratefully received.

Cheers

-- 
Ben Proctor
ODI-Cardiff / The Satori Lab
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