Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[Gregory]

I spotted a more interesting case in the pharmacy register: "HMP Durham"
(i.e. the prison).

I agree with mapping the pharmacy location in a hospital. Not only good for
finding which building it is, but also human reverse geocoding, e.g. "I'm
somewhere outside the hospital, by the pharmacy... okay, I'll pick you on
the road right outside that entrance".

How about the prison? I guess I can't get/order a prescription there, but
is it worth mapping just to aid cross checking? Should be something that
will avoid it being counted in pharmacy=yes. pharmacy=private... or
pharmacy=customers_only ;)

>From the North East,
Gregory.

On 24 May 2016 at 10:09, SK53  wrote:

> Given the size of larger district & regional teaching hospitals I think it
> will always be sensible to map the location of the pharmacy. For instance
> I've only recently discovered where decent coffee shops are in one my Mum
> was an in-patient for 2 weeks, and I have no idea where the pharmacy is
> located in the same hospital.
>
> I have friends who are consultants in the main teaching hospital in
> Nottingham: it is not unusual for newish members of the medical staff to
> get lost in the place. The front desk is never quite sure where the Day
> Case unit is & so on.
>
> Hospitals, along with shopping centres, are the two prime use cases for
> doing some more sophistcated indoor mapping.
>
> Jerry
>
> On 24 May 2016 at 08:29, Mark Goodge  wrote:
>
>> On 20/05/2016 16:42, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/05/2016 16:29, SK53 wrote:
>>>
 In my experience there are certain prescription which I can only get
 fulfilled by a hospital pharmacy (those written by a consultant).

>>>
>>> Agreed - and in the case of the one I'm familiar with it's not a stock
>>> issue but a bureacracy one - anything written "upstairs" by a doctor
>>> apparently has to be fulfilled by the (outsourced) hospital pharmacy.
>>> I've never tried to redeem a "regular" prescription there, but they do
>>> sell the normal high-street pharmacist add-ons, so they don't just rely
>>> on the closed shop of hospital-written prescriptions.
>>>
>>
>> All pharmacists offering the standard FP10 ("green form") prescription
>> service have to be able to dispense all drugs that can be prescribed via
>> it. That is a licence requirement. That doesn't mean holding a stock of
>> every drug - for the more esoteric ones, obtaining them to order is
>> acceptable - but it is good practice to hold stocks of all those that are
>> likely to be requested regularly. It's unlikely that a hospital FP10
>> pharmacy would have a stock policy that's significantly more limited than a
>> high street pharmacy.
>>
>> However, not all hospital pharmacies are FP10. This, for example, is not:
>>
>>
>> http://www.yorkhospitals.nhs.uk/our_hospitals/_the_york_hospital/facilities/
>>
>> As a rule of thumb, if the pharmacy provision is outsourced to one of the
>> regular High Street names (Stewart Pharmacy and Lloyds seem to be the most
>> common), then it's likely that it will offer an FP10 service. If it's
>> in-house, however, or run by a hospital pharmacy specialist, then it
>> probably won't.
>>
>> If you were going to map them, then you would need to now the difference.
>> But, personally, I don't think it is worth it. All hospitals have a
>> pharmacy of some sort, so mapping them separately is pointless.
>>
>> Mark
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[SK53]

Given the size of larger district & regional teaching hospitals I think it
will always be sensible to map the location of the pharmacy. For instance
I've only recently discovered where decent coffee shops are in one my Mum
was an in-patient for 2 weeks, and I have no idea where the pharmacy is
located in the same hospital.

I have friends who are consultants in the main teaching hospital in
Nottingham: it is not unusual for newish members of the medical staff to
get lost in the place. The front desk is never quite sure where the Day
Case unit is & so on.

Hospitals, along with shopping centres, are the two prime use cases for
doing some more sophistcated indoor mapping.

Jerry

On 24 May 2016 at 08:29, Mark Goodge  wrote:

> On 20/05/2016 16:42, Andy Townsend wrote:
>
>> On 20/05/2016 16:29, SK53 wrote:
>>
>>> In my experience there are certain prescription which I can only get
>>> fulfilled by a hospital pharmacy (those written by a consultant).
>>>
>>
>> Agreed - and in the case of the one I'm familiar with it's not a stock
>> issue but a bureacracy one - anything written "upstairs" by a doctor
>> apparently has to be fulfilled by the (outsourced) hospital pharmacy.
>> I've never tried to redeem a "regular" prescription there, but they do
>> sell the normal high-street pharmacist add-ons, so they don't just rely
>> on the closed shop of hospital-written prescriptions.
>>
>
> All pharmacists offering the standard FP10 ("green form") prescription
> service have to be able to dispense all drugs that can be prescribed via
> it. That is a licence requirement. That doesn't mean holding a stock of
> every drug - for the more esoteric ones, obtaining them to order is
> acceptable - but it is good practice to hold stocks of all those that are
> likely to be requested regularly. It's unlikely that a hospital FP10
> pharmacy would have a stock policy that's significantly more limited than a
> high street pharmacy.
>
> However, not all hospital pharmacies are FP10. This, for example, is not:
>
>
> http://www.yorkhospitals.nhs.uk/our_hospitals/_the_york_hospital/facilities/
>
> As a rule of thumb, if the pharmacy provision is outsourced to one of the
> regular High Street names (Stewart Pharmacy and Lloyds seem to be the most
> common), then it's likely that it will offer an FP10 service. If it's
> in-house, however, or run by a hospital pharmacy specialist, then it
> probably won't.
>
> If you were going to map them, then you would need to now the difference.
> But, personally, I don't think it is worth it. All hospitals have a
> pharmacy of some sort, so mapping them separately is pointless.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[Mark Goodge]

On 20/05/2016 16:42, Andy Townsend wrote:

On 20/05/2016 16:29, SK53 wrote:

In my experience there are certain prescription which I can only get
fulfilled by a hospital pharmacy (those written by a consultant).


Agreed - and in the case of the one I'm familiar with it's not a stock
issue but a bureacracy one - anything written "upstairs" by a doctor
apparently has to be fulfilled by the (outsourced) hospital pharmacy.
I've never tried to redeem a "regular" prescription there, but they do
sell the normal high-street pharmacist add-ons, so they don't just rely
on the closed shop of hospital-written prescriptions.


All pharmacists offering the standard FP10 ("green form") prescription 
service have to be able to dispense all drugs that can be prescribed via 
it. That is a licence requirement. That doesn't mean holding a stock of 
every drug - for the more esoteric ones, obtaining them to order is 
acceptable - but it is good practice to hold stocks of all those that 
are likely to be requested regularly. It's unlikely that a hospital FP10 
pharmacy would have a stock policy that's significantly more limited 
than a high street pharmacy.


However, not all hospital pharmacies are FP10. This, for example, is not:

http://www.yorkhospitals.nhs.uk/our_hospitals/_the_york_hospital/facilities/

As a rule of thumb, if the pharmacy provision is outsourced to one of 
the regular High Street names (Stewart Pharmacy and Lloyds seem to be 
the most common), then it's likely that it will offer an FP10 service. 
If it's in-house, however, or run by a hospital pharmacy specialist, 
then it probably won't.


If you were going to map them, then you would need to now the 
difference. But, personally, I don't think it is worth it. All hospitals 
have a pharmacy of some sort, so mapping them separately is pointless.


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[Andy Townsend]

On 20/05/2016 16:29, SK53 wrote:
In my experience there are certain prescription which I can only get 
fulfilled by a hospital pharmacy (those written by a consultant).


Agreed - and in the case of the one I'm familiar with it's not a stock 
issue but a bureacracy one - anything written "upstairs" by a doctor 
apparently has to be fulfilled by the (outsourced) hospital pharmacy.  
I've never tried to redeem a "regular" prescription there, but they do 
sell the normal high-street pharmacist add-ons, so they don't just rely 
on the closed shop of hospital-written prescriptions.


Cheers,

Andy

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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[SK53]

In my experience there are certain prescription which I can only get
fulfilled by a hospital pharmacy (those written by a consultant).

I've never tried to get my regular prescriptions at such locations, so
possibly we need a tag to discriminate between them. In a large teaching
hospital it's certainly worthwhile to know where these are located.

Jerry



On 17 May 2016 at 18:30, Tim Waters  wrote:

> Are the some hospitals that do not have pharmacies?  Would these be
> the smaller clinics, or would they be tagged differently anyhow?
>
> Tim
>
> On 15 May 2016 at 21:51, Andrew Black  wrote:
> > I notice the list of registered pharmacies includes hospital pharmacies.
> > Not sure these are worth adding as the area should already be marked as a
> > hospital. And i don't believe the process GP prescriptions.
> >
> > On 9 May 2016 7:36 p.m., "Rob Nickerson" 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Nice work Robert.
> >>
> >> Out of interest how does that data compare to the healthcare data is all
> >> available at:
> >>
> >> http://systems.hscic.gov.uk/data/ods/datadownloads
> >>
> >> For example, do the reference numbers match?
> >>
> >> Rob
> >>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[Tim Waters]

Are the some hospitals that do not have pharmacies?  Would these be
the smaller clinics, or would they be tagged differently anyhow?

Tim

On 15 May 2016 at 21:51, Andrew Black  wrote:
> I notice the list of registered pharmacies includes hospital pharmacies.
> Not sure these are worth adding as the area should already be marked as a
> hospital. And i don't believe the process GP prescriptions.
>
> On 9 May 2016 7:36 p.m., "Rob Nickerson"  wrote:
>>
>> Nice work Robert.
>>
>> Out of interest how does that data compare to the healthcare data is all
>> available at:
>>
>> http://systems.hscic.gov.uk/data/ods/datadownloads
>>
>> For example, do the reference numbers match?
>>
>> Rob
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[Andrew Black]

I notice the list of registered pharmacies includes hospital pharmacies.
Not sure these are worth adding as the area should already be marked as a
hospital. And i don't believe the process GP prescriptions.
On 9 May 2016 7:36 p.m., "Rob Nickerson"  wrote:

> Nice work Robert.
>
> Out of interest how does that data compare to the healthcare data is all
> available at:
>
> http://systems.hscic.gov.uk/data/ods/datadownloads
>
> For example, do the reference numbers match?
>
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[Rob Nickerson]

Nice work Robert.

Out of interest how does that data compare to the healthcare data is all
available at:

http://systems.hscic.gov.uk/data/ods/datadownloads

For example, do the reference numbers match?

*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[Eric Grosso]

Fantastic tool! Thanks so much Robert.

2. If it's a big supermarket or shopping centre, it's generally a polygon.
So it's possible to add a POI which is the amenity. In case the supermarket
is already a POI, your option, as written as well in the OSM wiki
discussion, i.e. pharmacy=yes could work but isn't a common OSM
specification. So why not using shop=supermarket and amenity=pharmacy
together. I don't see any incompatibility in using both tags.

3. I checked few pharmacies in Edinburgh and indeed, some of the red
circles in link with Boots are wrongly tagged as amenity=pharmacy. The
Boots website indicates if there are pharmacy services or in-store services
+ pharmacy services. The ones in red have no pharmacy services. It seems
that some of them aren't even chemists. So the tag will have probably to be
decided for each case.

4. (same remark than above) Why not using both amenity=pharmacy and
shop=chemist?

Best wishes,
Eric



On 9 May 2016 at 18:02, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This quarter's Healthcare project doesn't seem to have got as much
> traction as the Schools one. Possibly due to the fact that there's
> isn't a single obvious data-source to employ, and there's little scope
> for arm-chair mapping.
>
> I posted previously about a comparison tool I built for defibrillators
> at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ similar to the one I
> made previously for schools [1]. The data comes from the Easter
> Ambulance Service, and theirs is the only dataset I could find in a
> useful format. I've made FOI requests to a couple of other Ambulance
> trusts [2],[3], but they haven't got back to me yet.
>
> I've recently noticed that the General Pharmaceutical Council publish
> a list of registered pharmacies. I think this list should be complete
> (i.e. any dispensing pharmacy in Great Britain must be registered) so
> I've built a similar tool at
> http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/pharmacy/progress/ . (There's a similar
> Register for Northern Ireland, but the complete list isn't published.)
>
> I've asked for permission to re-use the information in the list to
> help improve OSM [4], but haven't had a response yet. I don't think
> any permission is needed to run the comparison, but it would be needed
> to use the information directly in OSM. (e.g. adding registration
> numbers, and using the address information). However, the tool can
> still be used at the moment to indicated possible places to survey.
>
> A few initial observations and tagging questions:
>
> 1/ I think it's interesting how relatively uniform our coverage of
> pharmacies is.
>
> 2/ There are a lot of pharmacies within supermarkets that aren't
> currently tagged in any way. Currently the tool will pick up
> pharamacy=yes, but I'm open to other options is there's a better way
> of adding this information to e.g. a shop=supermarket.
>
> 3/ There seem to be a number shops (particularly Superdrug stores)
> tagged as amenity=pharmacy that aren't on the register. I presume
> these are chemist / drug-store type outlets that do not have
> dispensing pharmacies. Do we want to agree on whether these should be
> tagged as shop=chemist or amenity=pharmacy + dispensing=no ?
>
> 4/ Should stores like larger Boots (which have a lot more besides the
> pharmacy counter and off-the-shelf medicines) be tagged as
> amenity=pharamcy or shop=chemist + pharmacy=yes, or something else, or
> should it depend on the individual store?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Robert.
>
> [1] http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/schools/progress/
> [2]
> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca
> [3]
> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca_2
> [4]
> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/re_use_request_for_register_of_p
>
> --
> Robert Whittaker
>
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[Talk-GB] Quarterly Project (Health): Pharmacies and Defibrillators

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

This quarter's Healthcare project doesn't seem to have got as much
traction as the Schools one. Possibly due to the fact that there's
isn't a single obvious data-source to employ, and there's little scope
for arm-chair mapping.

I posted previously about a comparison tool I built for defibrillators
at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ similar to the one I
made previously for schools [1]. The data comes from the Easter
Ambulance Service, and theirs is the only dataset I could find in a
useful format. I've made FOI requests to a couple of other Ambulance
trusts [2],[3], but they haven't got back to me yet.

I've recently noticed that the General Pharmaceutical Council publish
a list of registered pharmacies. I think this list should be complete
(i.e. any dispensing pharmacy in Great Britain must be registered) so
I've built a similar tool at
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/pharmacy/progress/ . (There's a similar
Register for Northern Ireland, but the complete list isn't published.)

I've asked for permission to re-use the information in the list to
help improve OSM [4], but haven't had a response yet. I don't think
any permission is needed to run the comparison, but it would be needed
to use the information directly in OSM. (e.g. adding registration
numbers, and using the address information). However, the tool can
still be used at the moment to indicated possible places to survey.

A few initial observations and tagging questions:

1/ I think it's interesting how relatively uniform our coverage of
pharmacies is.

2/ There are a lot of pharmacies within supermarkets that aren't
currently tagged in any way. Currently the tool will pick up
pharamacy=yes, but I'm open to other options is there's a better way
of adding this information to e.g. a shop=supermarket.

3/ There seem to be a number shops (particularly Superdrug stores)
tagged as amenity=pharmacy that aren't on the register. I presume
these are chemist / drug-store type outlets that do not have
dispensing pharmacies. Do we want to agree on whether these should be
tagged as shop=chemist or amenity=pharmacy + dispensing=no ?

4/ Should stores like larger Boots (which have a lot more besides the
pharmacy counter and off-the-shelf medicines) be tagged as
amenity=pharamcy or shop=chemist + pharmacy=yes, or something else, or
should it depend on the individual store?

Best wishes,

Robert.

[1] http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/schools/progress/
[2] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca
[3] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca_2
[4] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/re_use_request_for_register_of_p

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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