Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Harry Wood]

I wanted to make some little improvements to your map display (more readable 
tags)
http://bl.ocks.org/harry-wood/raw/1c590b852dd2f43569c085dc554b9abd/

I'm not that familiar with 'gists'. They don't have 'pull requests' hey? Anyway 
my fork is 
here:https://gist.github.com/harry-wood/1c590b852dd2f43569c085dc554b9abd
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[Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Rob Nickerson]

>On 03/11/2017 20:42, Rob Nickerson wrote:
>> ... There is no way I see us OSM craft mappers visiting all of the
>> rest within sensible time-frames. ...
>
>Ah, silly me.  If only I (and everyone else here) had read that around
>10 years ago, then we needn't have bothered mapping all that stuff in
>OSM, and just used "official" sources instead. :)
>

Hi Andy,

I assume that the smiley face means you are just trying to bring some good
humour to this. Will post my "for the avoidance of doubt" reasoning direct
to you as don't want to sidetrack this thread again.

Bringing us back to my proposal:

1. How does this sound?
2. Is there any other systematic issues such as the refs as road names
issue?


Thanks,

Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Andy Townsend]

On 03/11/2017 20:42, Rob Nickerson wrote:
... There is no way I see us OSM craft mappers visiting all of the 
rest within sensible time-frames. ...


Ah, silly me.  If only I (and everyone else here) had read that around 
10 years ago, then we needn't have bothered mapping all that stuff in 
OSM, and just used "official" sources instead. :)


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...

[Christian Quest]

Petit chantier du soir: j'ai mis à jour la BD Carthage qui sert à la couche
"hydro"  avec la dernière version dispo... 2014.

Pour mémoire...
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/BDCarthage

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Richard]

On Fri, Nov 03, 2017 at 09:18:01PM +0100, Michael Kugelmann wrote:
> Am 01.11.2017 um 13:35 schrieb Richard:
> >On Wed, Nov 01, 2017 at 12:02:10AM +0100, Michael Kugelmann wrote:
> >>Warum grundlos ausschliessen? Warum irgendwelche Annahmen
> >>treffen die jetzt im Moment speziell für Dich logisch erscheinen, aber
> >>völlig unnötig und ohne Grund sind?
> >mal angenommen es gäbe dort ein nettes Japanisches Restaurant und der
> >tüchtiger Eigentümer erfindet einen Namen um Aufmerksamkeit von Japanischen
> >oder anderen Touristen anzuziehen oder einfach als Vanity Namen.
> >Findest Du das gut?
> Du willst aus der grundsätzlichen Furcht dass etwas vielleicht in einem
> Einzelfall falsch sein könnte grundsätzlich ausschließen dass etwas
> zugelassen ist? 

nein. Ich will ganz pragmatisch eine Lösung die z.B. auch für Japaner
brauchbar ist. Sicher wollen diese die Japanischen Namen von München,
Berlin und Hamburg auf ihrer Karte angezeigt sehen und sollen sie auch 
bekommen. Aber irgendein Kaff das weder in Deutschland noch in Japan 
jemand kennt? Was bringt es einen vermeintlichen Japanischen Namen 
anzuzeigen der nirgendwo auf einem Schild steht und in keiner
Fremdenverkehrsamtbroschüre und keinem Reiseführer zu finden ist?

Ich will es auch nicht generell ausschließen sondern sagen in der 
Regel gehören solche Namen eben nicht ins name:XX.

Richard

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[Talk-it] Targa di intitolazione di una strada

[Stefano]

Ciao,
come si inserisce l'intitolazione di una strada?
Ad esempio una ipotetica "Via Dante" ha sotto scritto "Poeta italiano"
name=Via Dante
XXX=Poeta Italiano

Grazie,
Stefano
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Re: [Talk-it] Tag wikipedia su via

[Stefano]

Ciao,
ho scritto una mail alla persona.

Stefano

Il giorno 3 novembre 2017 21:48, Dario Crespi  ha
scritto:

> Esiste anche questo tag per inserire il link a Wikipedia o Wikidata
> relativo al soggetto che ha dato il nome alla strada (ma si può usare anche
> senza link a Wikipedia): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:
> name:etymology
>
> Dario
>
> Il giorno 2 novembre 2017 15:50, Andrea Musuruane  ha
> scritto:
>
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-02 15:40 GMT+01:00 Federico Cortese :
>>
>>> 2017-10-11 16:54 GMT+02:00 Daniele Santini :
>>> > Nella mia città un utente ha aggiunto nel tag Wikipedia di una strada
>>> la
>>> > pagina wikipedia dedicata al personaggio a cui è intitolata la via. Ma
>>> > questo utilizzo non è sbagliato?
>>>
>>> Anche dalle mie parti succede la stessa cosa, ecco alcuni changeset:
>>>
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53322521
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53322273
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53322330
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53322492
>>>
>>> Anche secondo me l'utilizzo di description, wikidata e wikipedia in
>>> questo modo sono sbagliati.
>>>
>>
>> Concordo sull'utilizzo sbagliato. Avete provato a contattare l'utente (è
>> sempre lo stesso).
>>
>> Ciao,
>>
>> Andrea
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] Tag wikipedia su via

[Federico Cortese]

2017-11-02 15:50 GMT+01:00 Andrea Musuruane :
>
> Concordo sull'utilizzo sbagliato. Avete provato a contattare l'utente (è
> sempre lo stesso).
>

Ho scritto in uno dei changeset segnalando questa discussione.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in ...

[streckenkundler]

Guten Abend,

... ich hab lange überlegt, ob ich was dazu schreiben soll... 

Nun... ein Statement meinerseits...

Meine persönliche Meinung... Namen, die explizit nach 1933 vergeben worden
sind, bzw. die danach geändert worden sind haben in meinen Augen im
name:de=* Tag nichts zu suchen... wer es mag, dann einschlägige name-Tags
wie old_name:xx-yy=*benutzen... Namensvergaben in dieser Zeit (in der
Hauptsache nach 1937) waren politisch motiviert und haben mit der
geschichtlichen Entwicklung nichts zu tun.

Ich sehe es aber auch so, daß geschichtlich gegebene Ortsnamen ihre
Berechtigung im name:de - Tag haben... Viele Ortsnamen in Polen in Gebieten,
die mal deutsch waren, haben letzendlich heute nur die polnische
Schreibweise des deutschen Namen (der vielleicht einen sorbischen Wortstamm
hat). Ich selbst kenne etwas z.B. den alten Kreis Sorau, zwischen Neiße  und
Bober, der noch zur Niederlausitz gehört (u.a. auch wegen der Familie).

Ja und was Namen anbelangt, die nach 1937 "eingedeutscht" worden sind...
solche haben wir auch bei uns noch zur Genüge, die seit dem nicht (!!)
geändert worden sind...

Ansonsten... es gibt auch ein Leben außerhalb OSM... bei mir ist es das
Interesse für Schmalspurbahnen... in dem Zuge waren wir als Gruppe
Gleichgesinnter unter anderem in Friedland in Böhmen, in einem kleinen, aber
feinen und sehr rührigen Eisenbahnmuseum... 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.92069/15.06774=N
   

Wir als Gruppe bekamen eine Führung durch das Museum (auf Deutsch!!) und
auch sehr viele Exponate im Museum waren (wegen der Geschichte der
Bahnstrecke der Friedländer Bezirksbahnen)  auf Deutsch... Ohne Probleme mit
sich und allgemein benutzte unserer tschechischer Museumsführer in Bezug auf
Orts- und Bahnhofsnamen überwiegend die "alten" deutschen Namen... Ich hatte
das nicht erwartet, es war spannend, interessant und es war aber auch
einfach so... Schlicht und ergreifend Normalität!!

Wir sollten diese ganze Namensdisskussion endlich mal etwas entspannter
sehen und nicht das Thema nach Murmeltiermanier jedes Jahr neu aufwärmen...

Sven

...dem diese Disskussion jedesmal aufs Neue aufs Schwein geht...



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Germany-f5281960.html

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Re: [Talk-it] R: R: Import Dati regione Puglia

[Federico Cortese]

2017-11-03 22:19 GMT+01:00 Federico Cortese :
>
> Continuando l'esempio del litorale otrantino, nella zona dei laghi
> Alimini (link sotto) ho mappato 21 lidi su OSM; nel dataset regionale
> i lidi sono solo 5, dei quali due in posizione corretta, uno sbagliato
> di 600 m, uno sbagliato di 1,21 km e l'ultimo sbagliato di 1,82 km.
>

Mi correggo, ho trovato altri 3 lidi nel dataset, quindi arrivo a 8
contro i 21 mappati su OSM, solo che questi ultimi 3 sono posizionati
nel centro di Otranto, a distanza di oltre 8 km da dove sono realmente
:(

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Andrew Hain]

There is another dataset you can use, the food hygiene ratings 
[https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Food_Hygiene_Rating_System] at 
http://ratings.food.gov.uk that has postcodes for shops selling food, which 
includes many petrol stations. It includes Northern Ireland but not the Isle of 
Man or the Channel Islands.

--
Andrew

From: Chris Hill 
Sent: 03 November 2017 19:10:27
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

On 03/11/2017 18:45, David Woolley wrote:
> On 03/11/17 17:51, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> postcodes, should they be removed from the import? Is there a
>> database that I can check these against?
>
> There is a database, but one of OSM UK's big bug bears is that it is
> not licensed in a way that allows it to be used for OSM.  About the
> limit of what you could do is find wrong postcodes, and then use other
> means to correct them.  I think removing a postcode on a mismatch
> might be too close to using the data.
>
> I'm, of course, referring to Royal Mail's Postal Address File (PAF).
There is a list of GB postcodes (not Northern Ireland) which, being OGL,
is compatible with the OSM licence. I maintain an overlay of postcodes
using that data, which you can see more about here:
https://raggedred.net/codepoint/

I am, of course, referring to the dataset Codepoint Open, supplied from
Royal Mail and distributed on the Ordnance Survey open data page.
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/opendatadownload/products.html

There is a version also supplied by the Office of National Statistics
which is based on Codepoint Open, but with some extra information for
each postcode. This also contains expired postcodes too.

Both of these datasets do not show each delivery point, but just a
centroid (in OSGB grid ref) for all the delivery points.

--

cheers
Chris Hill (chillly)


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Re: [Talk-it] R: R: Import Dati regione Puglia

[Federico Cortese]

2017-11-03 20:23 GMT+01:00 :
>
> Per quanto riguarda le coordinate (o meglio i dati in generale) contenute nel 
> dataset, non posso confermare che siano corretti o sbagliati, o meglio io li 
> prendo per buoni… ma ovviamente mi fido di ciò che dici.
>

Ho aggiunto alla umap della precedente e-mail un altro layer coi lidi
già mappati in OSM, in modo da consentire un confronto visivo.
Purtroppo essendo la maggior parte dei lidi mappati come poligoni, non
risaltano immediatamente all'occhio, ma bisogna eseguire un buono zoom
per rendersi conto della situazione (non so se c'è la possibilità in
umap di sostituire le aree con singoli nodi, magari posizionandoli
automaticamente nel baricentro).

Continuando l'esempio del litorale otrantino, nella zona dei laghi
Alimini (link sotto) ho mappato 21 lidi su OSM; nel dataset regionale
i lidi sono solo 5, dei quali due in posizione corretta, uno sbagliato
di 600 m, uno sbagliato di 1,21 km e l'ultimo sbagliato di 1,82 km.

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/opendata-puglia_177387#15/40.2099/18.4569

Ma ci sono anche casi molto più eclatanti, tipo il Pole Pole Beach
(Lecce) che nel dataset regionale è spostato di 19 km nell'entroterra
(a Lequile) rispetto alla posizione che ho mappato su OSM, oppure il
Lido Marinelli (San Gregorio) che si trova a 4,1 km nell'entroterra (a
Patù).

Probabilmente ho preso un dataset affetto da errori particolarmente
grossolani (l'ho scelto perchè ero certo di poter avere abbastanza
dati in OSM di buona qualità per eseguire un controllo esteso), magari
ci sono dataset migliori, ma mi sentirei di scoraggiare comunque un
import automatizzato e usare quei dati solo per facilitare la
mappatura puntuale.
Penso alla predisposizione di un task manager simile a quello che
venne impostato qualche tempo fa per gli impianti di carburanti, che
mi permise di mapparne molti in provincia di Lecce.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2017-11-03 at 20:42 +, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> My thanks to Andy for finding that this data is not perfect. My
> thanks also to Phil for finding that the existing OSM data for Shell
> Porthmadog is, to use Phil's words from a later email, broken.

It was more the opening hours on Branting Hill, near Leicester. Filling
stations do not close at 16:00 on weekdays.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Talk-it] Tag wikipedia su via

[Dario Crespi]

Esiste anche questo tag per inserire il link a Wikipedia o Wikidata
relativo al soggetto che ha dato il nome alla strada (ma si può usare anche
senza link a Wikipedia):
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name:etymology

Dario

Il giorno 2 novembre 2017 15:50, Andrea Musuruane  ha
scritto:

>
>
> 2017-11-02 15:40 GMT+01:00 Federico Cortese :
>
>> 2017-10-11 16:54 GMT+02:00 Daniele Santini :
>> > Nella mia città un utente ha aggiunto nel tag Wikipedia di una strada la
>> > pagina wikipedia dedicata al personaggio a cui è intitolata la via. Ma
>> > questo utilizzo non è sbagliato?
>>
>> Anche dalle mie parti succede la stessa cosa, ecco alcuni changeset:
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53322521
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53322273
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53322330
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53322492
>>
>> Anche secondo me l'utilizzo di description, wikidata e wikipedia in
>> questo modo sono sbagliati.
>>
>
> Concordo sull'utilizzo sbagliato. Avete provato a contattare l'utente (è
> sempre lo stesso).
>
> Ciao,
>
> Andrea
>
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

My thanks to Andy for finding that this data is not perfect. My thanks also
to Phil for finding that the existing OSM data for Shell Porthmadog is, to
use Phil's words from a later email, broken.

Now that we have ascertained that neither data set is perfect, can we
please discuss whether there is value in adding Shell's/Navad's data.

My suggestion is that we ask Ilya to look in to the road naming issue where
we have a road ref as the name (e.g. resulting in things like "663-667 A46"
as an address), but otherwise allow the import of the proposed tag_new
values. We can then get a list of the proposed tag changes (tags_changed)
and check these manually.

This should give us new tags that have an error comparable to our own
mapping (we all make mistakes) with the potential to make improvements to
our data by investigating the proposed tag changes. It also reduces the
amount of work. By pure fluke I have actually visited all the Shell
stations that have been called out so far. There is no way I see us OSM
craft mappers visiting all of the rest within sensible time-frames.

How does this sound?

Is there any other systematic issues such as the refs as road names issue?

Thanks,
*Rob*

P.s. I checked those close to me. All look good.
P.p.s. By "sensible time-frames" I mean 12 months. The number of fuel
stations is reducing and shortly (thanks to the autonomous and electric
vehicle bill currently oing through parliament) they will have to start
adding EV charging points. That is, expect rapid changes and hence a target
of 12 months to keep our data fresh.
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Re: [Talk-de] Deutsche Namens-Tags in Polen

[Michael Kugelmann]

Am 01.11.2017 um 13:35 schrieb Richard:

On Wed, Nov 01, 2017 at 12:02:10AM +0100, Michael Kugelmann wrote:

Warum grundlos ausschliessen? Warum irgendwelche Annahmen
treffen die jetzt im Moment speziell für Dich logisch erscheinen, aber
völlig unnötig und ohne Grund sind?

mal angenommen es gäbe dort ein nettes Japanisches Restaurant und der
tüchtiger Eigentümer erfindet einen Namen um Aufmerksamkeit von Japanischen
oder anderen Touristen anzuziehen oder einfach als Vanity Namen.
Findest Du das gut?
Du willst aus der grundsätzlichen Furcht dass etwas vielleicht in einem 
Einzelfall falsch sein könnte grundsätzlich ausschließen dass etwas 
zugelassen ist? Da ist eigentlich nicht der Weg wie OSM in der 
Vergangenheit funktioniert hatte. OSM war immer ein offenes Projekt. Und 
wenn es zu einem Problem gekommen ist, hat man reagiert. Im Moment sehe 
ich die Grundsätzlichkeit und das massive Auftreten nicht dass es einer 
"absolutistischen Lösung" bedarf...
Im konkreten Fall würde das besser im Einzelfall korrigiert (löschen), 
so wie wir bis jetzt immer unsere Daten gepflegt hatten.


Grüße,
Michael.


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Re: [Talk-it] R: R: Import Dati regione Puglia

[Francesco Pelullo]

Il 03 nov 2017 20:24,  ha scritto:

Assolutamente, il remapping dei punti già presenti non è previsto. Quindi
se un dato è già presente su OSM, il corrispettivo in nostro possesso verrà
non trattato.


Intendi inserire un ID nei dati OSM per fare ricerche incrociate con i dati
della Regione?

Ciao
/niubii/
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2017-11-03 at 11:09 -0700, Paul Norman wrote:
> On 11/3/2017 10:51 AM, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> > Philip, the shell.co.uk website gives the same opening hours for
> > the Branting Hill station as the source dataset. Basically,
> > everything in the dataset is the same, except for locations, which
> > have been improved by the Navads team.
> 
> What percentage of the opening hours in Shell's dataset do you
> estimate 
> are wrong?

Thats the million dollar question, I have only looked at the ones
within my stamping ground. All it proves is the the source data is
broken.

I do not deny that the import matches the hours stated on shell.co.uk,
but applying a sanity check. It is on the outbound side on a commuter
route into a major city, would any business selling fuel hope to
survive if it closes at 16:00 on weekdays?

I can apply local knowledge, it does not only open Mon-Fri 08:00-16:00, 
Sat-Sun 10:00-18:00 and those hours should look wrong to any mapper
looking at them. 

And, as its not a field in the import or in OSM, I will just ignore the
spelling howler on http://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/station-
locator.html#iframe=Lz9sb2NhbGU9ZW5fR0IjL0A1Mi44NTEsLTMuMDU3MDQsMTV6LyF
ONFh5QT9faz1tMWk0dmI=
But I am going to survey it :D

Phil (trigpoint)
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[Talk-it] R: R: Import Dati regione Puglia

[l.riccardi90]

Assolutamente, il remapping dei punti già presenti non è previsto. Quindi se un 
dato è già presente su OSM, il corrispettivo in nostro possesso verrà non 
trattato.
Dunque io avevo pensato di fare in questo modo: prima di inserire un nodo, 
eseguo una query alle API OSM, sulle coordinate in mio possesso, andando a 
cercare tra i node e le relation ( considerando un delta di 200-500mt) se vi 
sia un qualche oggetto che combacia con buon ratio quello che voglio andare a 
inserire. Banalmente adesso questo controllo lo faccio solo sul nome in mio 
possesso e confrontandolo coi nomi (o al massimo anche sulla descrizione) del 
resulset della query. Proprio per evitare di inserire un oggetto doppio.

Ovviamente le soglie di discriminazione saranno scelte ponderatamente, andando 
a individuare quale sia il miglior valore. ( Diciamo che per ora, sto ottenendo 
discreti risultati!)

Per quanto riguarda le coordinate (o meglio i dati in generale) contenute nel 
dataset, non posso confermare che siano corretti o sbagliati, o meglio io li 
prendo per buoni… ma ovviamente mi fido di ciò che dici.

N.B.: ovviamente se i controlli possono essere perfezionati e migliorati… sono 
aperto a suggerimenti!

P.S. Vi aggiorno quanto riguarda le altre richieste.

lr


Inviato da Posta per Windows 10

Da: Federico Cortese
Inviato: venerdì 3 novembre 2017 19:32
A: openstreetmap list - italiano
Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] R: Import Dati regione Puglia

2017-11-03 11:14 GMT+01:00 :
>
> Non solo! sono contenuti anche monumenti (statue, obelischi, etc…), mentre 
> per viaggiareinpuglia ho individuato centri d’informazione  per il turismo, 
> stabilimenti balneari, chiese, cattedrali, ristoranti, etc. ... Quindi i dati 
> da importare sono molto variegati. C’è da considerare che i dataset sono 
> popolati ogni giorno con info nuove.
>

I dataset disponibili su http://www.dataset.puglia.it/ effettivamente
sono interessanti, li tengo d'occhio da un po' di tempo.

Mi pare che tutti quei dati siano rilasciati sotto la licenza IODL
2.0; spesso qui in lista si è detto che la stessa è direttamente
compatibile con OSM, ma come suggerito da Napo, un'autorizzazione
espressa della Regione Puglia che permetta di riusare i dati in
Openstreetmap non guasterebbe.

Per quanto riguarda l'import vedo molto difficile l'automatizzazione;
questo principalmente per due motivi:

1) anche se si tratta di entità puntuali, è necessario verificare caso
per caso se l'entità è già presente in OSM. Ad esempio un lido
balneare può essere già disegnato con un poligono, quindi caricando un
nuovo nodo si otterrebbe un duplicato, come se i lidi fossero due.
2) la posizione dei nodi deve essere verificata, perchè le coordinate
indicate nel dataset potrebbero non essere esatte.

A solo scopo di esempio ho predisposto una umap col dataset dei lidi
balneari che hai citato:
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/opendata-puglia_177387

Io ho mappato personalmente quasi tutti i lidi balneari di Otranto,
Salve, Ugento, Gallipoli.
Ad esempio il Balnearea di Otranto è in posizione sbagliata, ma ancora
di più la Spiaggia Azzurra che si trova in mezzo al lago.
Potete notare che non sono casi isolati, perchè buona parte dei nodi
si trova in posizione sbagliata rispetto alla localizzazione reale.

Dove i dati sono già mappati molto probabilmente sono più precisi
quelli presenti in OSM, dove non lo sono si rischia di introdurre solo
errori in mappa.
Per questo tipo di informazioni sono sempre più propenso alla mappatura on site.

Ad ogni modo la creazione di mappe come la umap che ho linkato a
titolo di esempio, può certamente essere utile per aggiungere dati non
presenti in OSM, ma sempre col supporto della conoscenza diretta dei
luoghi.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Chris Hill]

On 03/11/2017 18:45, David Woolley wrote:

On 03/11/17 17:51, Ilya Zverev wrote:
postcodes, should they be removed from the import? Is there a 
database that I can check these against?


There is a database, but one of OSM UK's big bug bears is that it is 
not licensed in a way that allows it to be used for OSM.  About the 
limit of what you could do is find wrong postcodes, and then use other 
means to correct them.  I think removing a postcode on a mismatch 
might be too close to using the data.


I'm, of course, referring to Royal Mail's Postal Address File (PAF). 
There is a list of GB postcodes (not Northern Ireland) which, being OGL, 
is compatible with the OSM licence. I maintain an overlay of postcodes 
using that data, which you can see more about here: 
https://raggedred.net/codepoint/


I am, of course, referring to the dataset Codepoint Open, supplied from 
Royal Mail and distributed on the Ordnance Survey open data page. 
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/opendatadownload/products.html


There is a version also supplied by the Office of National Statistics 
which is based on Codepoint Open, but with some extra information for 
each postcode. This also contains expired postcodes too.


Both of these datasets do not show each delivery point, but just a 
centroid (in OSGB grid ref) for all the delivery points.


--

cheers
Chris Hill (chillly)


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[Talk-cz] OpenAlt - SOTM CZ - jiz tento víkend!

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj,

konference OpenAlt v Brně a její sekce OSM začíná Mariánovou
přednáškou již zítra! Hlavní část je pak v neděli viz. program:

https://openalt.cz/2017/program_detail.php#track4

Těšíme se s Mariánem, Jakubem a VOPem na vás!

Tom.K

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[David Woolley]

On 03/11/17 17:51, Ilya Zverev wrote:

postcodes, should they be removed from the import? Is there a database that I 
can check these against?


There is a database, but one of OSM UK's big bug bears is that it is not 
licensed in a way that allows it to be used for OSM.  About the limit of 
what you could do is find wrong postcodes, and then use other means to 
correct them.  I think removing a postcode on a mismatch might be too 
close to using the data.


I'm, of course, referring to Royal Mail's Postal Address File (PAF).

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Re: [Talk-it] R: Import Dati regione Puglia

[Federico Cortese]

2017-11-03 11:14 GMT+01:00 :
>
> Non solo! sono contenuti anche monumenti (statue, obelischi, etc…), mentre 
> per viaggiareinpuglia ho individuato centri d’informazione  per il turismo, 
> stabilimenti balneari, chiese, cattedrali, ristoranti, etc. ... Quindi i dati 
> da importare sono molto variegati. C’è da considerare che i dataset sono 
> popolati ogni giorno con info nuove.
>

I dataset disponibili su http://www.dataset.puglia.it/ effettivamente
sono interessanti, li tengo d'occhio da un po' di tempo.

Mi pare che tutti quei dati siano rilasciati sotto la licenza IODL
2.0; spesso qui in lista si è detto che la stessa è direttamente
compatibile con OSM, ma come suggerito da Napo, un'autorizzazione
espressa della Regione Puglia che permetta di riusare i dati in
Openstreetmap non guasterebbe.

Per quanto riguarda l'import vedo molto difficile l'automatizzazione;
questo principalmente per due motivi:

1) anche se si tratta di entità puntuali, è necessario verificare caso
per caso se l'entità è già presente in OSM. Ad esempio un lido
balneare può essere già disegnato con un poligono, quindi caricando un
nuovo nodo si otterrebbe un duplicato, come se i lidi fossero due.
2) la posizione dei nodi deve essere verificata, perchè le coordinate
indicate nel dataset potrebbero non essere esatte.

A solo scopo di esempio ho predisposto una umap col dataset dei lidi
balneari che hai citato:
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/opendata-puglia_177387

Io ho mappato personalmente quasi tutti i lidi balneari di Otranto,
Salve, Ugento, Gallipoli.
Ad esempio il Balnearea di Otranto è in posizione sbagliata, ma ancora
di più la Spiaggia Azzurra che si trova in mezzo al lago.
Potete notare che non sono casi isolati, perchè buona parte dei nodi
si trova in posizione sbagliata rispetto alla localizzazione reale.

Dove i dati sono già mappati molto probabilmente sono più precisi
quelli presenti in OSM, dove non lo sono si rischia di introdurre solo
errori in mappa.
Per questo tipo di informazioni sono sempre più propenso alla mappatura on site.

Ad ogni modo la creazione di mappe come la umap che ho linkato a
titolo di esempio, può certamente essere utile per aggiungere dati non
presenti in OSM, ma sempre col supporto della conoscenza diretta dei
luoghi.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Paul Norman]

On 11/3/2017 10:51 AM, Ilya Zverev wrote:

Philip, the shell.co.uk website gives the same opening hours for the Branting 
Hill station as the source dataset. Basically, everything in the dataset is the 
same, except for locations, which have been improved by the Navads team.


What percentage of the opening hours in Shell's dataset do you estimate 
are wrong?


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

First, thanks everyone for checking the import. I've made some improvements 
regarding addresses, and I removed the "operator" tag. You can see the 
improvements on the same map. I'd like to join Richard in a search for a review 
tool, which would allow people from UK to participate.

Seeing that there are possibly ~2% of wrong postcodes, should they be removed 
from the import? Is there a database that I can check these against?

Andy, thanks for the explanations regarding the Markham Vale.

Brian, thanks for supporting this.

Frederik,
> It may be true that existing high requirements are partly responsible
> for bad imports being attempted, but I do not concur that this means we
> should lower our standards so more imports can pass. To me, this is like
> saying "let's get rid of speed limits, then nobody will be speeding any
> more". It is true but not desirable.

That is not the reason not to fix things. I live and Russia and have seen many 
issues with speed limits: 60 kph on 12-lane highways being the most common 
example. This is fixed not by ignoring the issue and appealing to extremes, but 
by changing the limit or the road. For now it seems that the better an import 
is described, the more people understand it, the harder it is to please 
everyone. Obfuscating it, e.g. presenting a raw json and a few Shell stations 
with better tagging in my case, looks to be the more productive option — and 
it's okay if in three years somebody finds a few wrong tags. (Not that I'd do 
it, of course.)

Philip, the shell.co.uk website gives the same opening hours for the Branting 
Hill station as the source dataset. Basically, everything in the dataset is the 
same, except for locations, which have been improved by the Navads team.

Ilya

> 3 нояб. 2017 г., в 18:35, Philip Barnes  написал(а):
> 
> Looking at some of the Shell stations locally
> 
> I would dispute that the operator is most locations is Shell and that
> the brand should be Shell, but they are independent businesses who have
> a franchise to sell Shell fuel, but Shell do not employ the cashier,
> the mechanics or supply what is sold in the shop.
> 
> The opening hours you propose to add to http://www.openstreetmap.org/wa
> y/200523446 is total bobbins.
> 
> Telford Services has two filling stations, separated by an access road.
> 
> Whilst not part of your import, I would be very surprised if Shell
> Porthmadog didn't sell diesel.
> 
> 
> Phil (trigpoint)
> 
> 
> On Fri, 2017-11-03 at 12:55 +0300, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of
>> Shell fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a
>> contract with Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked
>> me to proceed with the import and sent an updated list of the
>> stations. I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few
>> days.
>> 
>> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
>> 
>> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
>> 
>> And here is a list of changed tag values for existing fuel stations,
>> for your convenience:
>> 
>> https://pastebin.com/KvxiZ9mc
>> 
>> This import will be made from Zverik_imports account and will be
>> described at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Navads_Imports page.
>> 
>> Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Lester Caine]

On 03/11/17 11:20, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Ashton-under-Hill (postcode WR11 7QP, near Lester ;) ) is weird too - the
> addr:street is proposed to be changed to 'A46', which isn't a street name,
> it's a ref.

Actually Spar list it as Vale Service Station , A46 Ashton Under Hill
but it is really Cheltenham Road. All needs a bit of an update as the
Transport Cafe has been closed for a while and the lorry park is closed
off. But like many 'Shell' stations, it is operated by a third party,
not by Shell.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] E2C

[marc marc]

Le 03. 11. 17 à 17:40, Christian Quest a écrit :
 > tout est OK côté licence ?

N'a-t-on pas tjs le droit d'ajouter les infos qu'un poi donne sur 
lui-même ? il me semble avoir vu cela à de nombreuse reprise
pour par exemple corriger les numéros de téléphone invalide.

Le 03. 11. 17 à 17:35, Paul Desgranges a écrit :
>> certains tag aussi ces établissement avec une surface couvrant
>> l'ensemble des bâtiments.
> un peu plus difficile à réaliser du coup, ça serait une amélioration à 
> faire après le premier import par quelqu'un de local alors

oui c'est tout a fait possible de faire cela + tard.
avoir un nœud pour l’établissement avec les infos est déjà
une amélioration.

>> pour l'umap, où as-tu trouvé la localisation des différents
>> établissements ? c'est avec l'adresse ?
> J'ai récupéré la localisation en faisant view-source de 
> https://reseau-e2c.fr/cartographie-des-e2c : il y avait déjà les lat/lon 
> des établissements.
> Mais j'ai voulu aussi comparer avec le résultat du géocodeur 
> https://adresse.data.gouv.fr/csv#next : celui-ci me calcule des points 
> légèrement différents (bien évidemment ça tombe pas juste). Du coup je 
> comptais garder le premier, mais avant un import j'imagine qu'il 
> faudrait vérifier chacune des 125 E2C "à la main", j'entends par là un 
> contrôle visuel, voir si le point tombe sur le "building" qui correspond 
> à l'adresse et pas au milieu d'une rue ?

Vu la taille de l'import, oui le mieux à faire serrait de regarder 
chaque point "à la main" afin non seulement de vérifier sa localisation 
précise mais aussi vérifier s'il n'y a pas déjà un noeud présent avec 
une partie des infos et dans ce cas ajouter les infos au noeud existant

> Autres questions:
>   - Pour "contact:email" : si on renseigne ça, ne donne-t-on pas des 
> billes aux spammeurs ?

la règle (dont je ne retrouve plus la page) est que si l'email est dispo 
sur le site, alors on peux l'ajouter à osm.
si l'email sur le site est protégé (masquée, obscurcie dans du 
javascript, catcha ou autre système), alors ne pas l'ajouter dans osm

>   - Dans les adresses, en plus du nom de rue, et en plus du numéro dans 
> la rue, il y a parfois une indication du style "ZA trucmuch" ou "ZI 
> machin". Y-a-t-il un champ "addr:complement" ou équivalent pour 
> renseigner ceci ?

le laisse le soin à d'autre d'y répondre (perso j'aurais zapé ZA/ZI etc)

Cordialement,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] E2C

[Christian Quest]

Le 03/11/2017 à 17:35, Paul Desgranges a écrit :
J'ai récupéré la localisation en faisant view-source de 
https://reseau-e2c.fr/cartographie-des-e2c : il y avait déjà les 
lat/lon des établissements.
Mais j'ai voulu aussi comparer avec le résultat du géocodeur 
https://adresse.data.gouv.fr/csv#next : celui-ci me calcule des points 
légèrement différents (bien évidemment ça tombe pas juste). Du coup je 
comptais garder le premier, mais avant un import j'imagine qu'il 
faudrait vérifier chacune des 125 E2C "à la main", j'entends par là un 
contrôle visuel, voir si le point tombe sur le "building" qui 
correspond à l'adresse et pas au milieu d'une rue ?



Autres questions:
 - Pour "contact:email" : si on renseigne ça, ne donne-t-on pas des 
billes aux spammeurs ?
 - Dans les adresses, en plus du nom de rue, et en plus du numéro dans 
la rue, il y a parfois une indication du style "ZA trucmuch" ou "ZI 
machin". Y-a-t-il un champ "addr:complement" ou équivalent pour 
renseigner ceci ?


Et tout est OK côté licence ?

Il faut toujours commencer par ça... sinon on perd potentiellement du 
temps sur un truc inutilisable pour des raisons non techniques.


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] E2C

[Paul Desgranges]

Le 03/11/2017 à 17:13, marc marc a écrit :

Bonjour,

Le 03. 11. 17 à 16:46, Paul Desgranges a écrit :

1) Comment mapper une "école de la deuxième chance"  (E2C) ?
   Je suis tombé sur une E2C par hasard, je l'ai mappée de manière
basique au début, puis j'ai récupéré les infos de l'E2C de Grenoble ici
(voir https://reseau-e2c.com/ a-t-on le droit de le faire ?)  Donc cela
donne provisoirement https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5115866345
   Merci pour votre avis

En vrac :
la majorité des tag dans osm contiennent le nom long, comme par exemple
pour name=École de la Deuxième Chance
E2C se trouve lui déjà renseigné dans short_name

ok

on évite généralement de mettre le nom de la ville/pays dans
les différent tag sauf si cela fait vraiment partie de son nom

ok

le tag addr:country est (totalement) inutile

ok

certains tag aussi ces établissement avec une surface couvrant
l'ensemble des bâtiments.
un peu plus difficile à réaliser du coup, ça serait une amélioration à 
faire après le premier import par quelqu'un de local alors



2) Sinon, ça m'embête toujours de voir une cartographie comme celle-ci
https://reseau-e2c.fr/cartographie-des-e2c
   Et je voudrais essayer, à titre d'exercice, de produire la même
cartographie avec des données OSM et un fond de carte OSM ...
   Mais est ce une bonne idée tout ceci, je n'en sais rien ? Si je me
lançais dans ce truc, y-aurait-il une meilleure façon de faire ?
   A nouveau c'est plutôt un exercice pour moi, et je cherche seulement
la façon canonique de faire, la "bonne pratique", (et je n'ai aucune
action dans le réseau E2C).

l'idéal serrait que E2C diffuse ses données dans un fichier OpenData.
cela permettrait de gérer les maj après le premier import.
Mais à défaut, ton résultat me semble positif.

pour l'umap, où as-tu trouvé la localisation des différents
établissements ? c'est avec l'adresse ?
J'ai récupéré la localisation en faisant view-source de 
https://reseau-e2c.fr/cartographie-des-e2c : il y avait déjà les lat/lon 
des établissements.
Mais j'ai voulu aussi comparer avec le résultat du géocodeur 
https://adresse.data.gouv.fr/csv#next : celui-ci me calcule des points 
légèrement différents (bien évidemment ça tombe pas juste). Du coup je 
comptais garder le premier, mais avant un import j'imagine qu'il 
faudrait vérifier chacune des 125 E2C "à la main", j'entends par là un 
contrôle visuel, voir si le point tombe sur le "building" qui correspond 
à l'adresse et pas au milieu d'une rue ?



Autres questions:
 - Pour "contact:email" : si on renseigne ça, ne donne-t-on pas des 
billes aux spammeurs ?
 - Dans les adresses, en plus du nom de rue, et en plus du numéro dans 
la rue, il y a parfois une indication du style "ZA trucmuch" ou "ZI 
machin". Y-a-t-il un champ "addr:complement" ou équivalent pour 
renseigner ceci ?



Merci


Cordialement,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] E2C

[marc marc]

Bonjour,

Le 03. 11. 17 à 16:46, Paul Desgranges a écrit :
> 1) Comment mapper une "école de la deuxième chance"  (E2C) ?
>   Je suis tombé sur une E2C par hasard, je l'ai mappée de manière 
> basique au début, puis j'ai récupéré les infos de l'E2C de Grenoble ici 
> (voir https://reseau-e2c.com/ a-t-on le droit de le faire ?)  Donc cela 
> donne provisoirement https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5115866345
>   Merci pour votre avis

En vrac :
la majorité des tag dans osm contiennent le nom long, comme par exemple 
pour name=École de la Deuxième Chance
E2C se trouve lui déjà renseigné dans short_name

on évite généralement de mettre le nom de la ville/pays dans
les différent tag sauf si cela fait vraiment partie de son nom

le tag addr:country est (totalement) inutile

certains tag aussi ces établissement avec une surface couvrant 
l'ensemble des bâtiments.

> 2) Sinon, ça m'embête toujours de voir une cartographie comme celle-ci 
> https://reseau-e2c.fr/cartographie-des-e2c
>   Et je voudrais essayer, à titre d'exercice, de produire la même 
> cartographie avec des données OSM et un fond de carte OSM ...
>   Mais est ce une bonne idée tout ceci, je n'en sais rien ? Si je me 
> lançais dans ce truc, y-aurait-il une meilleure façon de faire ?
>   A nouveau c'est plutôt un exercice pour moi, et je cherche seulement 
> la façon canonique de faire, la "bonne pratique", (et je n'ai aucune 
> action dans le réseau E2C).

l'idéal serrait que E2C diffuse ses données dans un fichier OpenData.
cela permettrait de gérer les maj après le premier import.
Mais à défaut, ton résultat me semble positif.

pour l'umap, où as-tu trouvé la localisation des différents 
établissements ? c'est avec l'adresse ?

Cordialement,
Marc
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[David Woolley]

On 03/11/17 15:35, Philip Barnes wrote:

I would dispute that the operator is most locations is Shell and that
the brand should be Shell, but they are independent businesses who have
a franchise to sell Shell fuel, but Shell do not employ the cashier,
the mechanics or supply what is sold in the shop.


I wondered about this and tried to research it.  It looks as though 
Shell don't do a standard franchise operation, where they only provide 
the branding and branded products, but do something in between, where 
they supply the actual petrol station as well, but they then 
sub-contract the shop to a small local business, but with some branding 
conditions (I've actually seen the head office provided plans of what 
must be on each shelf, although I'm not sure if it was Shell at the time).


I guess it is closer to a tied pub than a Burger King franchise.  I'm 
not sure how to correctly code it.  Arguably Shell operate the station 
as a whole, but the shop and cash desk area has a different operator.


brand=Shell seems safe, but operator is confusing.

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[OSM-talk-fr] E2C

[Paul Desgranges]

Bonjour,

1) Comment mapper une "école de la deuxième chance"  (E2C) ?
 Je suis tombé sur une E2C par hasard, je l'ai mappée de manière 
basique au début, puis j'ai récupéré les infos de l'E2C de Grenoble ici 
(voir https://reseau-e2c.com/ a-t-on le droit de le faire ?)  Donc cela 
donne provisoirement https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5115866345

 Merci pour votre avis


2) Sinon, ça m'embête toujours de voir une cartographie comme celle-ci 
https://reseau-e2c.fr/cartographie-des-e2c
 Et je voudrais essayer, à titre d'exercice, de produire la même 
cartographie avec des données OSM et un fond de carte OSM ...


  2.1) Pour les données :
- il y a encore un peu à faire, mais j'ai "mouliné" les data 
récupérées sur https://reseau-e2c.com/ pour produire un .osm (en suivant 
le modèle provisoire de l'E2C de Grenoble présenté ci-dessus), avec 
l'idée que une fois bien vérifié, cela pourrait s'importer dans OSM ...  
(Ce .osm est visible dans l'umap ci-dessous en 2.2)


  2.2) Pour le fond de carte OSM :
- je comptais faire une umap avec une requête dynamique, mais cela 
ne sera possible que lorsque les données seront dans OSM. Provisoirement 
j'ai importé le .osm dans umap ce qui donne ce qui donne : 
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/e2c_177320



 Mais est ce une bonne idée tout ceci, je n'en sais rien ? Si je me 
lançais dans ce truc, y-aurait-il une meilleure façon de faire ?
 A nouveau c'est plutôt un exercice pour moi, et je cherche seulement 
la façon canonique de faire, la "bonne pratique", (et je n'ai aucune 
action dans le réseau E2C).



Merci
Paul







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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Philip Barnes]

Looking at some of the Shell stations locally

I would dispute that the operator is most locations is Shell and that
the brand should be Shell, but they are independent businesses who have
a franchise to sell Shell fuel, but Shell do not employ the cashier,
the mechanics or supply what is sold in the shop.

The opening hours you propose to add to http://www.openstreetmap.org/wa
y/200523446 is total bobbins.

Telford Services has two filling stations, separated by an access road.

Whilst not part of your import, I would be very surprised if Shell
Porthmadog didn't sell diesel.


Phil (trigpoint)


On Fri, 2017-11-03 at 12:55 +0300, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of
> Shell fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a
> contract with Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked
> me to proceed with the import and sent an updated list of the
> stations. I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few
> days.
> 
> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
> 
> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
> 
> And here is a list of changed tag values for existing fuel stations,
> for your convenience:
> 
> https://pastebin.com/KvxiZ9mc
> 
> This import will be made from Zverik_imports account and will be
> described at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Navads_Imports page.
> 
> Ilya
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

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[OSM-co] Becas para celulares/portatiles

[Rebecca Firth]

Estimado Amigos,

Este año HOT tiene una programa para reducir las barreras para comunidades
que quieren mapear pero no tienen los recursos. La programa es de
microbecas para celulares y portatiles para mapear. Queremos dar una beca a
un proyecto en Colombia. El proyecto necesita tener un enfoque en
sostenibilidad de la comunidad y incluyendo gente sin celulares/portatiles
en los procesos de mapeo. Dime si tienes ideas para un proyecto y quieres
hablar mas.

Gracias,

Rebecca

-- 
*Rebecca Firth*
Community and Partnerships Manager
rebecca.fi...@hotosm.org 
@RebeccaFirthy

*Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team*
*Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
web  | twitter  | facebook
 | donate 
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Re: [Talk-it] Import Dati regione Puglia

[Andreas Lattmann]

>E già che ci siamo anche una preghiera: sia in viaggiareinpuglia che in
>
>pugliadigitallibreary nelle mappe OSM che fanno bella vista non c'è 
>traccia di attribuzione. Potreste segnalarlo?

Glielo avevo già segnalato più di una volta senza esito positivo.
Provateci voi: Luca e Tommaso, forse a voi danno retta.
Grazie
Andreas Lattmann
-- 
Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità. 

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Andy Townsend]

On 03/11/2017 14:24, Steve Doerr wrote:


The postcode (S44 5HB) is certainly wrong. Probably should be S44 5HS. 
Euro Garages (operator of the Shell garage we're talking about) is 
certainly listed at that postcode, which is Markham Lane, as you say. 
(So are 59 other locations.) Strangely, KFC and The Little Castle, on 
the same site, have a postcode of S44 5FD, which is Enterprise Way. 
Markham Vale as a whole covers about four separate development sites 
(subdivided into plots) on both sides of the M1.


(as I may have said before) I think it's explained by the KFC and Little 
Castle (pub) being built after Enterprise Way was built, whereas the 
other businesses started to be built before it was complete.


Interestingly, Google have updated their POIs since May (maybe a Google 
contributor reads this list...). 
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.2433483,-1.3312846,16.5z looks now 
mostly correct if you compare it to 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/53.24411/-1.33530 .  Back in May, 
most of the POIs were clustered around what is now labelled as "Markham 
Vale Environment Centre", which interestingly if you believe 
http://www.chesterfield.co.uk/business/conferences/markham-vale-environment-centre/ 
has a different postcode altogether of S44 5HY.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 03.11.2017 11:59, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> I see many imports every day going unnoticed, and I see this kind of a harsh 
> reaction on proposed imports. It is easy to see why people are reluctant to 
> announce their imports and automated edits beforehand. 

Any import that goes unnoticed for now, and is noticed a year or two or
three later, is liable to be removed entirely without further discussion
at any time, by anyone.

An import that has been discussed beforehand and agreed to be a good
thing doesn't run this risk.

I think this is incentive enough for people to use the proper channels,
and I'm more than happy to revert a few 5-year-old imports just to prove
the point.

> Until we develop a polite, predictable and mature way of clearing imports, we 
> will continue seeing undiscussed imports and being angry at people who just 
> did not want to be yelled at.

I think it is a frequent error to mistake criticism of data or process
for insults or "being yelled at", and it is good on the whole to see
that the OSM community is protective of its data.

The imports process is not there to rubber-stamp anything that is
brought up, but to ensure it is of high enough quality. Simply saying
yes to anything is not "mature".

It may be true that existing high requirements are partly responsible
for bad imports being attempted, but I do not concur that this means we
should lower our standards so more imports can pass. To me, this is like
saying "let's get rid of speed limits, then nobody will be speeding any
more". It is true but not desirable.

Would-be importers can hope for help from the OSM community but they are
not entitled to it; the likelihood of such help forthcoming is probably
dependent on how interesting the data set is for the community.

On 03.11.2017 13:29, Brian Prangle wrote:
> I welcome this initiative from Ilya. We are never going to get a
totally correct data source, and even data originating from human
mappers can leave a lot to be desired.

We generally afford more goodwill to individual mappers than to imports
because even if the first steps of an individual mapper can be
imperfect, they can learn and improve and become a valuable resource
over time. An import, on the other hand, is usually done as a one-off
and we can either take it or leave it; there's rarely a situation where
we would say "ah, the importer will probably spend more time to fix that
in the future".

Specifically, some people have pointed out areas in which this
particular import would deteriorate existing data (replace landline with
mobile phone etc.); this is something not even a newbie mapper would get
away with. ("Saw this on the corporate web site and added it"...)

> When we imported Naptan data we added a review tag set to "no", so
that as the community verified the data it could be set to "yes" or just
deleted.

This can be a working strategy but it should always go hand-in-hand with
a plan on how to get the review done in a reasonable time. The 12
million "tiger:reviewed-no" in the US seem to have no intent of dying
out ;-)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj, jen odkazy, vic snad po vikendu pokud se Jachym ozve, co presne
by potreboval :-)

http://osm.fit.vutbr.cz/OsmHiCheck/gp/stats.php
pripadne lze vyuzit obcasne shrnuti ve weekly, pokud 2017, tak:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/8725
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/cz/archives/9415

Bye


Dne 2. listopadu 2017 23:52 Jachym Cepicky  napsal(a):
> statistiku prosím ;-)
>
> čt 2. 11. 2017 v 19:55 odesílatel Marián Kyral  napsal:
>>
>> Tak v tom případě bych určitě zmínil projekt mapování turistických tras a
>> sbírání fotek rozcestníků. Tom Kašpárek možná dodá i statistiku, kolik se
>> povedlo zmapovat.
>>
>> Marián
>>
>> -- Původní e-mail --
>> Od: Jachym Cepicky 
>> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
>> Datum: 2. 11. 2017 19:21:25
>> Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci
>>
>> No právě :-D
>>
>> já to beru prostě jako komunitu, občanskou iniciativu ze zdola, v podstatě
>> tenhle mailing list, bez formálního tělesa.
>>
>> Ale i tahle améba, kterou tvoříte vy, lidi, si zaslouží kredit a o ten mi
>> jde
>>
>> j
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Nov 2017, 19:04 Marián Kyral,  wrote:
>>
>> BTW: co se vlastně přesně myslí pojmem "openstreetmap.cz"? :-D
>>
>>
>> Marián
>>
>> -- Původní e-mail --
>> Od: Jachym Cepicky 
>> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
>> Datum: 2. 11. 2017 16:47:55
>> Předmět: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci
>>
>> Dámy a pánové,
>>
>>
>> dovolil jsem si proaktivně přihlásit OpenStreetMap.cz do soutěže "Společně
>> otevíráme data" - s nikým jsem to nekonzultoval, bylo to na poslední chvíli,
>> prostě jsem to udělal a čekal, co se bude dít.
>>
>> Teď se mi to trochu vrátilo, protože po mě chějí: "Co se za poslední rok
>> aktualizovalo/změnilo".
>>
>> Mohli byste mi prosím pomoct? Co se stalo zásadního v roce 2017, kvůli
>> čemu je OSM nejlepší otevřeně-datový projekt v ČR?
>>
>> Prosím moc neváhejte reagovat, chtějí to obratem.
>>
>> Díky za pomoc
>>
>> Jachym
>>
>> P.S. Prosím pište nejdřív konstruktivně, a nadávky co jsem si to dovolil
>> bez informování komunity do zvláštního vlákna, abych se v tom vyznal - díky.
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Lenka Kováčová 
>> Date: čt 2. 11. 2017 v 11:59
>> Subject: Re: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci
>> To: Jachym Cepicky 
>>
>>
>> Ahoj,
>>
>> to všechno chápu a OpenStreetMap samozřejmě považuji za skvělý projekt.
>> Jde mi ale o ten pojem Aktualizovaná. V pravidlech soutěže je totiž napsané
>> Aplikace "musí být nová či již existující avšak aktualizovaná, tzn. aplikace
>> nebo její aktualizace musí být publikována v období listopad 2016 - říjen
>> 2017. Aktualizovaná aplikace se musí výrazně lišit od předchozí verze."
>>
>> Můžete mi prosím napsat v čem se v daném období nejvíc změnila?
>>
>> Díky moc za pochopení.
>> L.
>>
>> Lenka Kováčová Koordinátorka Fondu Otakara Motejla
>>
>> FOND OTAKARA MOTEJLA
>>
>> Hradecká 18, 130 00 Praha 3
>>
>> t: +420 226 227 705 m: +420 728 863 039
>>
>> e: lenka.kovac...@motejl.cz | w: www.osf.cz
>>
>> fb: www.facebook.com/nadace.osf | t: @nadaceOSF
>>
>> Fond Otakara Motejla spravuje Nadace Open Society Fund Praha
>>
>>
>> Dne 2. listopadu 2017 10:44 Jachym Cepicky 
>> napsal(a):
>>
>> Ahoj,
>>
>> přihlásil jsem projekt OpenStreetMap jako celek (za Českou republiku).
>> Projekt, který čerpá  všechny dostupné státní/soukromé/lidské datové zdroje
>> do jednoho velkého, komplexního, udržovaného datasetu. Celá Česká republika
>> má momentálně 1GB zazipovaných dat a obsahuje celou mapu ČR. Data z OSM
>> používá na svých stránkách klub českých turistů, stejně jako Seznam.cz
>> (Seznam tedy pouze pro oblasti mimo ČR - jenom tím chci říct, že je to
>> uznávaný zdroj), často se k OSM utíkají i veřejné instituce, protože pořád
>> platí, že prostrová data si v ČR veřejná správa mezi sebou přeprodává,
>> IHned, https://www.vodafone.cz/mapa-pokryti/, a další. Pokud se vám do
>> soutěže v minulosti nebo součastnosti přihlásila nějaká mapová aplikace,
>> vsaďte se, že používá jako podklad právě OpenStreetMap
>>
>> Projekt je denně na dobrovolnické bázi ručně i poloautomaticky (pomocí
>> open source programů) udržovaný a aktualizovaný. Česká komkunita se točí
>> okolo stránek https://openstreetmap.cz/ a existuje aktivní forum
>> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=47  i mailing list
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-cz/
>>
>> Výsledkem je nejenom "tištěná" webová mapa, ale hlavně podkladová data, ze
>> kterých si každý může udělat svoji vlastní mapu, provádět analýzy,
>> konfrontovat se skutečností.
>>
>> Přihlásil jsem OpenStreetMap, protože by se tím ocenila komunita kolem
>> projektu, která ho udržuje na dobrovolnické bázi. Veřejnost často ani
>> netuší, kde se ty mapičky berou - 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...

[Christian Quest]

Le 03/11/2017 à 14:28, marc marc a écrit :

Merci pour tout le boulot effectué

Le 03. 11. 17 à 13:56, Christian Quest a écrit :

Reste à remettre en route des services annexes, liés à osmose ou
quelques exports quotidiens.

tu veux dire qu'une partie d'osmose est impacté ? si oui quoi ?


Mes petites analyses qui sont calculées par osm13... rien de très gênant 
(la preuve personne n'a remarqué).


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Steve Doerr]

On 03/11/2017 10:59, Ilya Zverev wrote:

3 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:21, Andy Townsend  написал(а):



Last time you proposed this it took only a few seconds to identify problems 
with the data.  It's the same this time - at least some of the changes that 
your map suggests you're proposing to import 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2917373098 are incorrect (address info in 
this example).

How is the address info there incorrect? Did you see the correct address of the 
building? Googling shows that amenities there are indeed addressed by Markham 
Lane, just like the Markham Vale, the business centre that contains these.




The postcode (S44 5HB) is certainly wrong. Probably should be S44 5HS. 
Euro Garages (operator of the Shell garage we're talking about) is 
certainly listed at that postcode, which is Markham Lane, as you say. 
(So are 59 other locations.) Strangely, KFC and The Little Castle, on 
the same site, have a postcode of S44 5FD, which is Enterprise Way. 
Markham Vale as a whole covers about four separate development sites 
(subdivided into plots) on both sides of the M1.


In any case, Markham Ln should be expanded to Markham Lane.

addr:housenumber = 29A also looks suspicious, as this development is at 
Junction 29A of the M1!


Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...

[marc marc]

Merci pour tout le boulot effectué

Le 03. 11. 17 à 13:56, Christian Quest a écrit :
> Reste à remettre en route des services annexes, liés à osmose ou 
> quelques exports quotidiens.

tu veux dire qu'une partie d'osmose est impacté ? si oui quoi ?
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[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM #380 2017-10-24-2017-10-30

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 380,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9595/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-us] weeklyOSM #380 2017-10-24-2017-10-30

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 380,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9595/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-GB] weeklyOSM #380 2017-10-24-2017-10-30

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 380,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9595/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-in] weeklyOSM #380 2017-10-24-2017-10-30

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 380,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9595/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[talk-ph] weeklyOSM #380 2017-10-24-2017-10-30

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 380,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9595/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-ca] weeklyOSM #380 2017-10-24-2017-10-30

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 380,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9595/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM? 
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] osm13 ne répond(ait) plus...

[Christian Quest]

Ça y est, les tuiles HOT sont de retour !

J'ai un peu galéré à cause des mises à jour des différents outils, en 
particulier mapnik qui est passé de la version 2 à la 3.


Le rendu HOT était TRES LENT depuis la mise à jour. Pour une même 
métatuile, le rendu HOT mettait 100s là où le rendu OpenRiverBoatMap 
mettait 2s !


Tout cela venait de la couche de dessin des limites administratives à 
cause d'un changement de comportement de mapnik qui ne "clipe" plus 
comme avant... ce qui a demandé par mal d'exploration !


Reste à remettre en route des services annexes, liés à osmose ou 
quelques exports quotidiens.



Le 01/11/2017 à 09:08, Christian Quest a écrit :
Quelques nouvelles du chantier: fin d'import du planet... il y a 
maintenant 8 jours de retard à rattraper...


Pendant ce temps, je m'attaque à la remise en route du rendu car il y 
a quelques trucs à reconfigurer car j'ai mis à jour pas mal de choses 
sur ce serveur (l'OS, mais aussi postgres passé en version 10, on 
était en 9.3).


Un peu de tuning à faire et ça repartira, j'espère encore mieux qu'avant !



Le 31 octobre 2017 à 08:02, Gaël Simon > a écrit :


Merci Christian pour ta disponibilité

Gaël

Le 30 oct. 2017 à 22:38, Christian Quest > a écrit :

Je lui ait demandé, mais ce coquin ne veut pas répondre !

Plus sérieusement, munin montre qu'il y a eu un pic sur la
latence, puis plus rien, kernel HS, machine bloquée.

Branché en USB sur mon laptop, il n'est pas détecté. Je ne pense
pas que ce soit un problème d'age de la mémoire flash, on était à
60% restant de durée de vie d'après le graph SMART de munin.


Le 30 octobre 2017 à 22:12, > a écrit :

Sait-on pourquoi il a lâché ?

Merci pour la réactivité.

Jean-Yvon


Le 30/10/2017 à 21:59, Christian Quest -
cqu...@openstreetmap.fr  a écrit :

SSD remplacé... OS mis à jour (maintenant Ubuntu 16.04),
ré-import base planet en cours...

Le 30 octobre 2017 à 11:28, Christian Quest
> a
écrit :

Le 28/10/2017 à 13:04, Christian Quest a écrit :

Depuis cette nuit, 3h52...

Pas de réponse aux ping, je contacte free pour voir si
il y a eu un pépin...

Du coup, plus de tuiles HOT

-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


Serveur planté grave (rien à l'écran, voyant du clavier
qui ne réagissent plus, kernel ?)... free l'a
éteint/rallumé et il a rebooté.

Reboot ok, mais il semble y avoir un problème avec le
deuxième SSD, celui de 1To qui contient la base
postgresql qui ne monte pas.

En fait, il n'est pas détecté, mais la carte PCIe sur
lequel il est branché est bien visible dans lspci et lshw

Possible que le SSD lui même soit HS... ce qui veut dire
que je vais devoir y aller, le changer.

Ça tombe bien j'ai remplacé le SSD de mon laptop ce
week-end et libéré un SSD 840 EVO de 1To que je peux
mettre à la place.


Je viens de rebooter une seconde fois la machine et SSD
toujours pas là...


Conséquences:

- la base postgres est indisponible

- les tuiles ne peuvent plus être calculées

Par contre:

- les tuiles en cache mod_tile sont bien disponibles
(elles sont sur l'autre SSD) et donc servies même si
elles ne sont pas fraiches


Donc service dégradé, mais service quand même.


Actions...

- remplacer le SSD

- re-importer la planet...

- en profiter pour mettre à jour toute la machine (ubuntu
un peu ancien dessus)


-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France





-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France



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-- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[ael]

On Fri, Nov 03, 2017 at 01:59:17PM +0300, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> 3 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:21, Andy Townsend  написал(а):
> > 
> > On 03/11/2017 09:55, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of Shell 
> >> fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a contract with 
> >> Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked me to proceed with 
> >> the import and sent an updated list of the stations.

I have also done a very quick check on a couple of stations. 

The import have "ref_coords" that differ from the existing OSM nodes
which are in good locations. If this implies that the exiting nodes be
moved, then that seems wrong.

The current nodes have proper source tags. The import appears to leave
them unmodified rendering them incorrect. They should append
";navads_shell" or some such if the import goes ahead.

ael




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] live.openstreetmap.fr down

[Éric Gillet]

Le 2 novembre 2017 à 23:47, Florian LAINEZ  a écrit :

> Hello,
> http://live.openstreetmap.fr/ est down, est-ce lié aux problèmes d'infra
> précédemment abordés par Chrisitian ou est-ce que je vous nourri gentiment
> d'un nouveau problème ? ;)
>

worksforme
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Andy Townsend]

On 03/11/2017 10:59, Ilya Zverev wrote:


How is the address info there incorrect? Did you see the correct address of the 
building? Googling shows that amenities there are indeed addressed by Markham 
Lane, just like the Markham Vale, the business centre that contains these.


I explained the likely chain of events the last time this was discussed:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2017-May/004985.html

Basically, when the place was built the road it is now on 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/393054254 (which based on the signage 
to the south and 
http://ris.dev.openstreetmap.org/oslmusicalchairs/map?osl_id=1001791 is 
called Enterprise Way) did not exist, and the site office was where 
Google thinks everything still is, in an office off Markham Lane.





I have received the list from the Shell UK. Are you suggesting I should buy a 
ticket and verify each of these on the ground? Are there any better sources for 
Shell fuel stations, or are you implying the UK is a special restricted 
no-imports-whatsoever territory?


No, I'm suggest that you (or whoever's doing this import) sanity-check 
the data that you get from third parties against what's already in OSM.  
David Woolley's already said "company head offices are notorious, in my 
view, for failing to map their branches at the correct location"; here 
it looked like someone at Shell had to fill in address details on a 
form, but couldn't use e.g. the correct road because it did not exist 
yet, so made up some values to fill in the fields to avoid "computer 
says no" and that's never been updated at Shell's end.





I assumed a week of heated discussions in imports@ and talk-gb@ mailing lists 
in May would be enough, and we won't start with the same arguments.


What would be good would be if you fixed the problems raised there. 
Street names were raised as an issue here:


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2017-May/004974.html




... I personally believe our map would be better by having more data 
from the original sources: 


Agreed, if the data is correct (and it's going to be maintained, as I 
presume it is here).  The problem here seems to be that it isn't correct 
in the first place.





I see many imports every day going unnoticed, and I see this kind of a harsh 
reaction on proposed imports. It is easy to see why people are reluctant to 
announce their imports and automated edits beforehand. Until we develop a 
polite, predictable and mature way of clearing imports, we will continue seeing 
undiscussed imports and being angry at people who just did not want to be 
yelled at.
You're not being yelled at.  You're being told that some data that you 
want to import is incorrect, as you were back in May.


Where data may be iffy / need conflation there are are lots of 
alternatives to "let's dump the data in OSM and let the community figure 
it out after the event" - for example look at the way schools (including 
in relatively unmapped areas) were mapped in the UK as part of a 
project.  Shell stations by there very nature tend to be on major roads; 
I'd be surprised if many of the new ones (and things like brand changes) 
weren't visible from e.g. Mapillary to at least verify the location.  
Similarly, any human that looks at the address example I gave ("house 
number 29a", which is obviously the motorway junction ref) is unlikely 
to be valid.  Similarly for the address issues that Richard has raised.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Philip Withnall]

On Fri, 2017-11-03 at 12:55 +0300, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of
> Shell fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a
> contract with Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked
> me to proceed with the import and sent an updated list of the
> stations. I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few
> days.
> 
> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
> 
> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/

I just checked the 4 nearest me (3 by Kendal, 1 at Newby Bridge):

http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/#12/54.3
005/-2.8400

The changes to Lound Road are all entirely correct. The changes to
Prizet services (on the A591) are mostly correct, although adding
addr:street=A591 is incorrect, since that’s a ref, not a street name.

The Newby Bridge services are a bit more of a mess. The import is
proposing to add a new node on top of a house. The garage already
exists in OSM, further to the south and incorrectly labelled as a
Texaco garage. Having checked, it’s now a Shell. The proposed tags for
the new node include the inappropriate addr:street=A591 — inappropriate
both because it’s a ref, and because the road it’s on is actually the
A590.

---

Overall, I think this is valuable data to add to OSM, and it’s great
that Shell are freely licensing it and working to get it included.
However, as others have said, once data is in the map it’s assumed to
be correct — spotting and fixing incorrect data is much harder than
adding missing data. So this import should be done carefully.

I’m not an expert, but I would suggest either:
 • Importing the data as nodes which are not tagged as amenity=fuel,
and letting the community merge them over time. This is how the NAPTAN
import was done.
 • Providing a comparison tool (like bl.ocks.org) and letting the
community manually reconcile the map with your data. If you provide
progress statistics (like http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postboxes/progr
ess/) that might encourage people.

---

Finally, the new nodes seem to have a navads_shell= ID on them. Perhaps
it would make more sense to use a Shell-specific ID, just in case Shell
decide to switch ad partners away from Navads at some point, which
would leave a load of orphaned IDs in OSM?

Philip

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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[David Woolley]

On 03/11/17 10:59, Ilya Zverev wrote:

I have received the list from the Shell UK. Are you suggesting I should buy a 
ticket and verify each of these on the ground? Are there any better sources for 
Shell fuel stations, or are you implying the UK is a special restricted 
no-imports-whatsoever territory?


Whilst I do sometimes think there is too much paranoia about bulk 
imports in parts of the UK community, company head offices are 
notorious, in my view, for failing to map their branches at the correct 
location, often using postcodes.  As such, I'd expect a very diligent 
attempt to find existing mappings, and that existing addresses which 
appear to have been surveyed on the ground should not be changed, but 
rather either the mapper notified through a changeset comment, or a map 
note added, to point out the discrepancy.


They will get locations wrong, even when using Google Maps on their own 
web site store finder pages.


Generally there is a strong presumption that something already on the 
map is correct, especially if surveyed on the ground.


Having said that, I'm not aware of any errors on the ones I personally 
know, one of which is new to the map.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Richard Fairhurst]

Ilya Zverev wrote:
> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/

Eek, this still looks a bit sketchy.

Choosing one of the two nearest affected petrol stations to me, the one on
Woodstock Road, Yarnton looks like it would be tagged "brand=Texaco;
operator=Shell" post-import, which is nonsensical.

I think it is actually a Shell now rather than a Texaco (not 100% sure,
neither my bike nor train need to use Shell stations) but in any case the
tag remapping isn't working.

Looking at a few other random ones, there are all sorts of odd little data
issues like this. For example, the phone tag on Shardlow South services is
proposed to be changed from 01332 794127 to 07880 078248. This looks really
unlikely - it's replacing a local geographic number with a mobile number
(and there are big notices at every petrol station telling you not to use
mobiles!). I just checked the number by calling it and the 01332 one is
correct.

Ashton-under-Hill (postcode WR11 7QP, near Lester ;) ) is weird too - the
addr:street is proposed to be changed to 'A46', which isn't a street name,
it's a ref. Oddly, further up the A46, we have Six Hills Services
Northbound, where addr:street is currently A46 in OSM, and the import has
'ref_unused_tags.addr:street' as 'Fosse Way', which would actually be
better. But the import proposes adding a house number, so it'd end up as
663-667 A46, which is just odd. (That said, I'm not sure anyone would ever
use a house number for an isolated rural petrol station like this anyway.)

There's clearly some good data in here and it would be a shame not to have
it. But all of these are data issues that would be spotted instantly by
anyone familiar with the UK yet are difficult to code around. So I'd suggest
this would be better done with manual review than by an automated import -
maybe someone can recommend a tool which works well for this?

Richard



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Great-Britain-f5372682.html

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[Talk-it] Call for Papers - Special Issue: Open Source Geospatial Software

[Marco Minghini]

Cari tutti,

scusandomi per il cross-posting, qui sotto trovate la Call for Papers di
una Special Issue sul tema del software geografico open source di cui sono
Guest Editor insieme a Amin Mobasheri, Victoria Rautenbach e Maria Antonia
Brovelli.

Tra i temi della Call, ho voluto fortemente inserire anche applicazioni
legate ad OpenStreetMap. Notate inoltre che, pur trattandosi di una rivista
scientifica, i contributi possono essere sottomessi anche nella forma di
"Software article”, ovvero articoli più brevi e focalizzati su una
specifica applicazione/software.

Vi chiedo cortesemente di fare circolare la Call for Papers ad eventuali
autori potenzialmente interessati.
Grazie e un saluto a tutti,

Marco (a nome dei Guest Editor)


Open Geospatial Data, Software and Standards (ISSN: 2363-7501)Special
Issue: Open Source Geospatial Software

Call for Papers (https://opengeospatialdata.springeropen.com/osgs)

The use of open source software has nowadays become well-established in our
society. In the geospatial domain, the creation and evolution of open
source software projects are typically based on a crowdsourcing mechanism
counting on communities (project leaders, users, developers, translators,
etc.) from all over the world. The importance of open source geospatial
software, also termed FOSS4G (Free and Open Source Software for
Geospatial), has become so high that the Open Source Geospatial Foundation
(OSGeo) was created to support and promote its development and widespread
adoption. In addition to being chosen for ethical reasons, nowadays open
source geospatial software is exploited in science and research, as the
transparency of code ensures reproducibility of analyses and results, and
in education, as it allows sustainability by avoiding dependence on
proprietary vendors. Open source geospatial software represents also an
established business model for many companies worldwide. With these
premises, this Special Issue of the Journal of Open Geospatial Data,
Software and Standards invites original research contributions and/or
software implementations on all aspects of open source geospatial software
and its applications, and particularly encourages submissions focusing on
the following themes:


   -

   Open source/open data policies for SDI development and implementation
   -

   Reproducibility of analyses and results in research and science
   -

   Quality of open geospatial data
   -

   Volunteered Geographic Information (VGI), Crowdsourcing and
   OpenStreetMap (OSM)
   -

   Sensor Web and Internet of Things (IoT)
   -

   Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing
   -

   Standardization and interoperability of open geo-data and services
   -

   Big geo-data storage, visualization and processing
   -

   Open source geospatial software in scientific research
   -

   Open source geospatial software in education and business
   -

   Management and sustainability of open source geospatial projects


The Journal of Open Geospatial Data, Software and Standards welcomes
submissions of various types, including “Original article”, “Review” as
well as “Database article”. Apart from these article types, the Journal has
a special type of article called “Software article”, where you can publish
a short article about services/software of broad utility that have been
developed within your project/institute. For more information about the
article types, please access the Journal’s online menu Submission Guidelines

and Preparing
your manuscript
.


Guest Editors:

Marco Minghini, Politecnico di Milano - DICA, Italy (
marco.mingh...@polimi.it)

Amin Mobasheri, Heidelberg University, Germany (
a.mobash...@uni-heidelberg.de)

Victoria Rautenbach, University of Pretoria, South Africa (
victoria.rautenb...@up.ac.za)

Maria Antonia Brovelli, Politecnico di Milano - DICA, Italy (
maria.brove...@polimi.it)

Deadline for submission of articles: November 15th, 2018

Special Issue publication date: articles will get published as soon as they
are accepted.

Submission Instructions: Authors interested in submitting a paper to this
issue should carefully read the Open Geospatial Data, Software and
Standards submission
guidelines

and
submit their article to the Journal's submission system
. Submissions of
articles are open from now until November 15, 2018. The first round review
process will take approximately three weeks and the articles will be
published online as open access after receiving the final acceptance.
During the submission of the manuscript, please upload a cover letter
indicating that you are interested to publish your work in this Special
Issue. Furthermore, in case you have any questions, feel free to contact

Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

Thanks Ed, I have removed overriding streets and postal codes, so at least 
existing correct addresses won't be changed. I've updated the map.

If a majority of addresses in the import are wrong, then I would consider 
removing these tags even from the hundred of new objects.

Ilya

> 3 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:51, Ed Loach  написал(а):
> 
> I've checked the only one near me, in Clacton, and the address details in 
> OpenStreetMap are correct and the proposed address changes are wrong.
> 
> Ed
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Ilya Zverev [mailto:i...@zverev.info]
>> Sent: 03 November 2017 09:56
>> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing
>> of Shell fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a
>> contract with Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked
>> me to proceed with the import and sent an updated list of the
>> stations. I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few
>> days.
>> 
>> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
>> 
>> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
>> 
>> And here is a list of changed tag values for existing fuel stations, for
>> your convenience:
>> 
>> https://pastebin.com/KvxiZ9mc
>> 
>> This import will be made from Zverik_imports account and will be
>> described at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Navads_Imports
>> page.
>> 
>> Ilya
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> 


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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ilya Zverev]

3 нояб. 2017 г., в 13:21, Andy Townsend  написал(а):
> 
> On 03/11/2017 09:55, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of Shell fuel 
>> stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a contract with Shell for 
>> putting their stations on the map. They asked me to proceed with the import 
>> and sent an updated list of the stations.
> 
> Last time you proposed this it took only a few seconds to identify problems 
> with the data.  It's the same this time - at least some of the changes that 
> your map suggests you're proposing to import 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2917373098 are incorrect (address info in 
> this example).

How is the address info there incorrect? Did you see the correct address of the 
building? Googling shows that amenities there are indeed addressed by Markham 
Lane, just like the Markham Vale, the business centre that contains these. 

> 
> More serious than address vagueries, what evidence do we have that the new 
> stations that you're adding actually exist in the locations you suggest?  
> Last time there were serious problems where e.g. a Shell station in a 
> new-build area was allegedly located in the development office of a building 
> site (presumably the only valid address at the time of construction), not 
> conflated with it's actual mapped-in-osm location.

I have received the list from the Shell UK. Are you suggesting I should buy a 
ticket and verify each of these on the ground? Are there any better sources for 
Shell fuel stations, or are you implying the UK is a special restricted 
no-imports-whatsoever territory?

> 
>> I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few days.
> 
> "a few days" is nowhere near enough time for people to even read this message.

I assumed a week of heated discussions in imports@ and talk-gb@ mailing lists 
in May would be enough, and we won't start with the same arguments.

> 
>> 
>> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
>> 
>> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
> 
> Perhaps you could provide details of what review _you_ have done? Presumably 
> you're getting paid to do this, either directly or indirectly via MAPS.ME's 
> desire to be able to sell advertising based on location.  Why should we do 
> your data validation for you?

Oh for... Of course I'm being paid gigantic piles of money to break your map!

I have explained times and times again: while I do this by a request from 
Navads via Maps.me, and I get my paycheck from Maps.me monthly, that does not 
mean any mean intent for my every edit. If you believe otherwise, please set up 
the autoreverter script (which I open sources for your convenience) on my OSM 
accounts and show me the door.

We don't receive any money from Shell or Navads. We don't have any advertising 
contracts with them. We are merely helping Navads get their data on the map — 
as opposed to their own failed attempts, linked in the past discussions of the 
same subject. I personally believe our map would be better by having more data 
from the original sources: not just amenities mappers were lucky to see on 
their way, but with a comprehensive dataset from the owning company itself.

Do you believe the alternative, that no data belongs to OSM except personally 
surveyed data?

I have made a numerous talks at conferences this year highlighting this and 
other similar issues in OSM, and it saddens me that I have changed nothing.

I see many imports every day going unnoticed, and I see this kind of a harsh 
reaction on proposed imports. It is easy to see why people are reluctant to 
announce their imports and automated edits beforehand. Until we develop a 
polite, predictable and mature way of clearing imports, we will continue seeing 
undiscussed imports and being angry at people who just did not want to be 
yelled at.

Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Ed Loach]

I've checked the only one near me, in Clacton, and the address details in 
OpenStreetMap are correct and the proposed address changes are wrong.

Ed

> -Original Message-
> From: Ilya Zverev [mailto:i...@zverev.info]
> Sent: 03 November 2017 09:56
> To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing
> of Shell fuel stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a
> contract with Shell for putting their stations on the map. They asked
> me to proceed with the import and sent an updated list of the
> stations. I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few
> days.
> 
> Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:
> 
> http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/
> 
> And here is a list of changed tag values for existing fuel stations, for
> your convenience:
> 
> https://pastebin.com/KvxiZ9mc
> 
> This import will be made from Zverik_imports account and will be
> described at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Navads_Imports
> page.
> 
> Ilya
> ___
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Andy Townsend]

On 03/11/2017 09:55, Ilya Zverev wrote:

Hi,

You might remember a few months ago I discussed here importing of Shell fuel 
stations. The data provider is Navads, which has a contract with Shell for 
putting their stations on the map. They asked me to proceed with the import and 
sent an updated list of the stations.


Last time you proposed this it took only a few seconds to identify 
problems with the data.  It's the same this time - at least some of the 
changes that your map suggests you're proposing to import 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2917373098 are incorrect (address info 
in this example).


More serious than address vagueries, what evidence do we have that the 
new stations that you're adding actually exist in the locations you 
suggest?  Last time there were serious problems where e.g. a Shell 
station in a new-build area was allegedly located in the development 
office of a building site (presumably the only valid address at the time 
of construction), not conflated with it's actual mapped-in-osm location.



I have prepared an import and would like to do it in a few days.


"a few days" is nowhere near enough time for people to even read this 
message.




Please help me review the data. Here is the updated map:

http://bl.ocks.org/Zverik/raw/ddcfaf2da25a3dfda00a3d93a62f218d/


Perhaps you could provide details of what review _you_ have done? 
Presumably you're getting paid to do this, either directly or indirectly 
via MAPS.ME's desire to be able to sell advertising based on location.  
Why should we do your data validation for you?


Best Regards,

Andy


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[Talk-it] R: Import Dati regione Puglia

[l.riccardi90]

Non solo! sono contenuti anche monumenti (statue, obelischi, etc…), mentre per 
viaggiareinpuglia ho individuato centri d’informazione  per il turismo, 
stabilimenti balneari, chiese, cattedrali, ristoranti, etc. ... Quindi i dati 
da importare sono molto variegati. C’è da considerare che i dataset sono 
popolati ogni giorno con info nuove.


lr

Inviato da Posta per Windows 10

Da: Maurizio Napolitano
Inviato: venerdì 3 novembre 2017 11:06
A: openstreetmap list - italiano
Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] Import Dati regione Puglia

Ho dato una occhiata qui

> http://www.pugliadigitallibrary.it
> https://www.viaggiareinpuglia.it

molti dati mi sembrano collezioni museali quindi mi sembra più
materiale per wikipedia
Credevo si trattasse di punti di interesse.

Sicuramente ho dedicato poco tempo alla ricerca nei dataset, credo
però che un primo lavoro da fare è capire esattamente cosa si vuole
importare confrontando la pagina qui
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features

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Re: [Talk-it] Import Dati regione Puglia

[Maurizio Napolitano]

Ho dato una occhiata qui

> http://www.pugliadigitallibrary.it
> https://www.viaggiareinpuglia.it

molti dati mi sembrano collezioni museali quindi mi sembra più
materiale per wikipedia
Credevo si trattasse di punti di interesse.

Sicuramente ho dedicato poco tempo alla ricerca nei dataset, credo
però che un primo lavoro da fare è capire esattamente cosa si vuole
importare confrontando la pagina qui
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features

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Re: [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

[Lukas Sommer]

Note that it’s not -Latin"/-latin, but it is -Latn/-latn.

There is no monolithic OSM system. How these tags are recognized (or
not), each software project decides for itself.
Lukas Sommer


2017-11-03 9:15 GMT+00:00 Garam Gim :
> Hello.
>
> I agree with it. But I have a question in regard to this. The tag "-Latin"
> as capital letter is different to "-latin" small letter? In other words, do
> OSM system (or format?) recogize them differently?
>
> And I worry a little bit, because already so many people (and I) is using
> "ko_rm" in features until now.
>
> Thanks.
>
> 2017-10-27 0:23 GMT+09:00 Max :
>>
>> Agree, data consumers should read the tag case insensitive, just in case,
>> but for tagging we should follow one recommendation and that should be -Latn
>>
>>
>> On 2017년 10월 26일 23:47, Lukas Sommer wrote:
>>>
>>> Makes sense!
>>>
>>> (I’m not sure about lowercase. I would rather opt for ko-Latn because
>>> also also sr-Latn uses titlecase.)
>>> Lukas Sommer
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-10-26 3:06 GMT+00:00 Maarten van den Hoven :

 Dear OSM editors,


 This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
 tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent
 to
 their respective mailing lists.

 The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
 not
 the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
 ago
 because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
 seen
 here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
 The
 global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here
 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
 "ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves
 confusion
 over the use of the tag
 (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).

 This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above
 links
 and this one ->
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
 However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.

 Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
 procedure as defined here
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of
 changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the
 past as well
 (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).

 Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone
 has
 objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
 "ko-Latn" tag.

 We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
 here
 https://telegram.me/osmKorea.

 Kind regards.

 ___
 Talk-ko mailing list
 Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko

>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-ko mailing list
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>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cherche photos pour illustrer osm.fr

[PanierAvide]

Celle du musée a été prise par le chargé de comm' du musée, autrement 
non on a pas ça en stock. Tu peux peut-être piocher dans les photos du 
dernier SoTM-FR ?


Adrien.


Le 03/11/2017 à 10:41, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :

merci Adrien;
sans offense mais je cherche vraiment des photos de meilleure qualité 
genre photographe ... vous auriez ça ?


Le 3 novembre 2017 à 08:34, PanierAvide > a écrit :


Salut,

On a quelques photos sur la page de Rennes sur le wiki :
- Photo de groupe en janvier 2017 :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Contributeurs_OSM35_2017-01-09.jpg


- Atelier au musée de Bretagne :

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Atelier_indoor_mus%C3%A9e_bretagne_jep2017.jpg


- Carto de stations de métro :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Carto_metro_rennes_2015-04-19.jpg


Et en bonus :
- La galette des rois "corporate" :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Galette_2017_osm35.jpg


Adrien.



Le 02/11/2017 à 19:51, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :

Hello,
Nous avions parlé en début d'année d'une refonte du site internet
openstreetmap.fr 
Je m'y repenche en ce moment, et je cherche des photos pour
illustrer les pages.

Si vous en avez de très belles je suis preneur !

Ce qui m'intéresse :
-des photos de groupe / événements
-des photos de rencontre avec les collectivités / entreprises /
aux acteurs
-des contributeurs sur le terrain (avec smartphone / papier /
autre, à pied, à vélo, à cheval ! ...)
-des contributeurs qui mappent depuis leur ordi

Vous l'avez compris, je cherche de l'humain et des photos de qualité.
Merci par avance pour votre aide

-- 


*Florian Lainez*

@overflorian 


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cherche photos pour illustrer osm.fr

[Florian LAINEZ]

merci Adrien;
sans offense mais je cherche vraiment des photos de meilleure qualité genre
photographe ... vous auriez ça ?

Le 3 novembre 2017 à 08:34, PanierAvide  a écrit :

> Salut,
>
> On a quelques photos sur la page de Rennes sur le wiki :
> - Photo de groupe en janvier 2017 : https://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/File:Contributeurs_OSM35_2017-01-09.jpg
> - Atelier au musée de Bretagne : https://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/File:Atelier_indoor_mus%C3%A9e_bretagne_jep2017.jpg
> - Carto de stations de métro : https://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/File:Carto_metro_rennes_2015-04-19.jpg
>
> Et en bonus :
> - La galette des rois "corporate" : https://wiki.openstreetmap.
> org/wiki/File:Galette_2017_osm35.jpg
>
> Adrien.
>
>
>
> Le 02/11/2017 à 19:51, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :
>
> Hello,
> Nous avions parlé en début d'année d'une refonte du site internet
> openstreetmap.fr
> Je m'y repenche en ce moment, et je cherche des photos pour illustrer les
> pages.
>
> Si vous en avez de très belles je suis preneur !
>
> Ce qui m'intéresse :
> -des photos de groupe / événements
> -des photos de rencontre avec les collectivités / entreprises / aux acteurs
> -des contributeurs sur le terrain (avec smartphone / papier / autre, à
> pied, à vélo, à cheval ! ...)
> -des contributeurs qui mappent depuis leur ordi
>
> Vous l'avez compris, je cherche de l'humain et des photos de qualité.
> Merci par avance pour votre aide
>
> --
>
> *Florian Lainez*
> @overflorian 
>
>
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing 
> listTalk-fr@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
>
> --
> PanierAvide
> Géomaticien & développeur
>
>
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing list
> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
>


-- 

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@overflorian 
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Re: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci

[Marián Kyral]

-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Lukas Gebauer 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 3. 11. 2017 10:06:47
Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci
"> Ok, ale to je od stavu BEFORE nejspíš změna i faktická. Pro presentaci
> "odvedené práce" se víc hodí oblast, která se sama o sobě v terénu moc
> nezměnila, ale v OSM se změnila výrazně. Jsem to myslel..

Tak zkuste tohle kousicek za Prahou... tam je zmena, kam se podivas.

http://pierzen.dev.openstreetmap.org/hot/leaflet/OSM-Compare-before-af
ter.html#15/49.9125/14.6509

"



Jen jestli to není až moc zpátky. Before je z fosm.org , takže cca 6 let. A
v tom požadavku je pokrok za poslední rok.




Marián




"

--
Lukas Gebauer.

http://synapse.ararat.cz/ - Ararat Synapse - TCP/IP Lib.
https://www.geoget.cz/ - Geocaching solution


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Re: [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

[Garam Gim]

Hello.

I agree with it. But I have a question in regard to this. The tag "-Latin"
as capital letter is different to "-latin" small letter? In other words, do
OSM system (or format?) recogize them differently?

And I worry a little bit, because already so many people (and I) is using
"ko_rm" in features until now.

Thanks.

2017-10-27 0:23 GMT+09:00 Max :

> Agree, data consumers should read the tag case insensitive, just in case,
> but for tagging we should follow one recommendation and that should be -Latn
>
>
> On 2017년 10월 26일 23:47, Lukas Sommer wrote:
>
>> Makes sense!
>>
>> (I’m not sure about lowercase. I would rather opt for ko-Latn because
>> also also sr-Latn uses titlecase.)
>> Lukas Sommer
>>
>>
>> 2017-10-26 3:06 GMT+00:00 Maarten van den Hoven :
>>
>>> Dear OSM editors,
>>>
>>>
>>> This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
>>> tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent
>>> to
>>> their respective mailing lists.
>>>
>>> The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
>>> not
>>> the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
>>> ago
>>> because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
>>> seen
>>> here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
>>> The
>>> global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here
>>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
>>> "ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
>>> over the use of the tag
>>> (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).
>>>
>>> This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
>>> and this one ->
>>> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
>>> However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.
>>>
>>> Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
>>> procedure as defined here
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of
>>> changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the
>>> past as well (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
>>> /wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).
>>>
>>> Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone
>>> has
>>> objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
>>> "ko-Latn" tag.
>>>
>>> We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
>>> here
>>> https://telegram.me/osmKorea.
>>>
>>> Kind regards.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-ko mailing list
>>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>
>>
>
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[Talk-it] Fwd: Import Dati regione Puglia

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

inoltro a tutti...

sent from a phone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "l.riccardi90" 
> Date: 3. November 2017 at 09:18:27 CET
> To: dieterdre...@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Import Dati regione Puglia
> 
> ciao a tutti, 
> grazie per le numerose risposte ed interessamento. seguirò il più possibile i 
> consigli ed approfitterò della vostra disponibilità per operare nel modo più 
> corretto possibile.
> 
> per quanto riguarda la licenza, non credo ci siano problemi ad avere una 
> "concessione di utilizzo dati".
> 
> quello che mi piacerebbe discutere con voi riguarda il tool per l'import 
> bulk, dato che il processo deve essere più automatizzato possibile( 
> ovviamente i contenuti caricato saranno dapprima verificati se sono presenti 
> in OSM e conformi ai metatag più utilizzati). il tool ideale che ricerchiamo 
> è un tool che in seguito all'import avvenuto con successo restituisca la 
> lista dei nodeid assegnato da OSM ( caricheremo solo POI). Tra gli strumenti 
> disponibili, ve n'è uno che opera in tal modo?
> 
> lr
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Re: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci

[Lukas Gebauer]

> Ok, ale to je od stavu BEFORE nejspíš změna i faktická. Pro presentaci
> "odvedené práce" se víc hodí oblast, která se sama o sobě v terénu moc
> nezměnila, ale v OSM se změnila výrazně. Jsem to myslel..

Tak zkuste tohle kousicek za Prahou... tam je zmena, kam se podivas.

http://pierzen.dev.openstreetmap.org/hot/leaflet/OSM-Compare-before-af
ter.html#15/49.9125/14.6509



-- 
Lukas Gebauer.

http://synapse.ararat.cz/ - Ararat Synapse - TCP/IP Lib.
https://www.geoget.cz/ - Geocaching solution


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[Talk-it] Ospedali a Napoli

[Alessandro]

Ciao lista,
ho notato che a Napoli, tra Napoli Centrale e Chaia (1), si vedono ben 
16 icone di ospedali tra i quali anche l'Ospedale delle Bambole :-)


Qualcuno in zona potrebbe dare una sistemata?

Grazie
  Alessandro

1) http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/40.8444/14.2499

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[OSM-talk] All the metro systems of the world, continued

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi again,

You know how people introduce proposals with zero tag usages on the map? Well, 
I've been fixing metro systems, and now you cannot say the "Metro Mapping" 
proposal is too abstract. I have reworded a few sections, and improved some, 
thanks to commenters. The "What This Affects" section now has only five items, 
all on point. There are illustrations! I plan to start the voting next week.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Metro_Mapping

The validator is run twice a day, at 5 and 13 UTC. It showed 3 acceptable 
networks a month ago (of 180), now it has 40, with 22 in Europe. Yesterday I 
finally made London Underground network pass. It serves as a good example of a 
properly-mapped metro network, with 270 stations and 25 "type 2" interchanges 
(types are outlined in the proposal). If you're from the UK, the DLR network is 
still mostly unmapped.

http://osmz.ru/subways/

I have been improving the subway processor / validator almost daily. It does 
not simply count the stations and routes. It builds the whole network in 
memory: cities to routes to route variants to route stops (including a stop 
positions projected on tracks) to stop areas to stations. Tracks are taken from 
OSM and extended using stop positions. There are distances between stops by the 
tracks and separate platforms for entering and leaving a train. I am pretty 
proud of the result.

https://github.com/mapsme/subways

Yes, you can use the script to make a GTFS feed for every well-mapped metro 
network in OSM. The only thing you would miss is an exact schedule. My plan is 
to try merging the OSM data with an existing GTFS feed, maybe even for railway 
networks.

Thanks,
Ilya
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cherche photos pour illustrer osm.fr

[PanierAvide]

Salut,

On a quelques photos sur la page de Rennes sur le wiki :
- Photo de groupe en janvier 2017 : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Contributeurs_OSM35_2017-01-09.jpg
- Atelier au musée de Bretagne : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Atelier_indoor_mus%C3%A9e_bretagne_jep2017.jpg
- Carto de stations de métro : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Carto_metro_rennes_2015-04-19.jpg


Et en bonus :
- La galette des rois "corporate" : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Galette_2017_osm35.jpg


Adrien.


Le 02/11/2017 à 19:51, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :

Hello,
Nous avions parlé en début d'année d'une refonte du site internet 
openstreetmap.fr 
Je m'y repenche en ce moment, et je cherche des photos pour illustrer 
les pages.


Si vous en avez de très belles je suis preneur !

Ce qui m'intéresse :
-des photos de groupe / événements
-des photos de rencontre avec les collectivités / entreprises / aux 
acteurs
-des contributeurs sur le terrain (avec smartphone / papier / autre, à 
pied, à vélo, à cheval ! ...)

-des contributeurs qui mappent depuis leur ordi

Vous l'avez compris, je cherche de l'humain et des photos de qualité.
Merci par avance pour votre aide

--

*Florian Lainez*

@overflorian 


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[OSM-talk-fr] LibDay 2017 : Logiciel libre et Opendata au service des collectivités avec OpenStreetMap - jeudi 9 novembre 2017 à Marseille

[Jean-Christophe Becquet]

Bonjour,

Jean-Christophe Becquet, directeur d'APITUX animera une conférence
intitulée « Logiciel libre et Opendata au service des collectivités avec
OpenStreetMap » dans le cadre du Libday 2017. La journée de conférences
autour du Libre pour les professionnels est hébergée cette année au sein
du DevOpsDDAY, jeudi 9 novembre 2017 à Orange Vélodrome Marseille.

Tourisme, transports, santé... OpenData et Systèmes d’Information
Géographique (SIG libres) offrent des ressources indispensables, en
appui aux métiers de la collectivité.

Après une introduction sur l’importance d’animer la communauté locale
afin d’encourager la contribution et de partager ses données sous
licence libre (opendata), je présenterai les outils à la disposition des
collectivités autour d’OpenStreetMap.

Je montrerai plusieurs réalisations concrètes en région PACA dans
lesquelles APITUX est intervenu en expertise, conseil ou formation.

 - Dessine ta ville

   - Transports Urbains Dignois, les bons plans des bus
   - Carte prospective pour l’amélioration des déplacements à vélo
   - Le bon plan touristique de Digne-les-Bains
   - Cartopartie des services de santé

 - Cartosaixy, une méthode innovante de production de cartes pour les
petites communes

 - Geopcropping, un logiciel libre pour cultiver nos données locales

Voir et relayer :
https://2017.libday.fr/sessions/logiciel-libre-et-opendata-au-service-des-collectivites-avec-openstreetmap-apitux/
https://twitter.com/sebfox/status/924985560338444288

Merci et bonne journée

JC
-- 
Cartopartie : Libre information sur les services de santé,
tous acteurs, tous concernés ! jeudi 16 novembre 2017 à Digne
http://ferme.animacoop.net/wikis/afnicarto/wakka.php?wiki=CartoSante

==APITUX : le choix du logiciel libre==

APITUX - Jean-Christophe Becquet
BP 32 - 04001 Digne-les-Bains Cedex
06 25 86 07 92 - j...@apitux.com - http://www.apitux.com
SIRET : 452 887 441 00031 - APE : 6202A

===




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Re: [Talk-cz] Fwd: DŮLEŽITÉ_Doplnění infa k aplikaci

[Petr Holub]

Porad jeste se generuje tohle"
http://osm.kyblsoft.cz/statistiky/

Petr


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