date:20190512



sent from a phone

> On 12. May 2019, at 22:30, Volker Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Mi sembra che c'è consenso che un way separato highway=cycleway è 
> generalmente considerato il tagging più evoluto ed è preferibile in 
> particolare perché rende molto più facile il tagging delle proprietà  della 
> ciclabile e anche il posizionamento corretto degli attrversamenti ("strisce").


purtroppo questo consenso non è globale 


> Per me sostituire una mappatura fatta con separato highway=cycleway con 
> cycleway=track è borderline a vandalismo, se fatta di un mappatore esperto.


+1


Ciao, Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Changeset 69828472

2019-05-12 Per discussione Volker Schmidt

(la strada in questione è a Treviso)
Questa ciclabile è separata dalla strada. L'uso di cycleway=track è
considerata una prima approssimazione. Mi sembra che c'è consenso che un
way separato highway=cycleway è generalmente considerato il tagging più
evoluto ed è preferibile in particolare perché rende molto più facile il
tagging delle proprietà  della ciclabile e anche il posizionamento corretto
degli attrversamenti ("strisce").
Per me sostituire una mappatura fatta con separato highway=cycleway con
cycleway=track è borderline a vandalismo, se fatta di un mappatore esperto.
Nel presente caso propongo un revert del changeset coinvolgendo l'utente.
Inoltre ci sono anche problemi con il parallelo footway, che, secondo la
mia memoria è almano parxialmante un highway=service con traffico di
autoveicoli, possibilmente limitato a confinanti.

Volker
(Padova)

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 19:53, Andrea Enzo  wrote:

> Buongiorno,
> il mapper gmpf ha cancellato una ciclabile per questioni di rendering,
> anche se mi ha detto che: non è una questione estetica, ma più di
> leggibilità e fruibilità della mappa.
> Qualcuno della zona Trieste sa com'è la reale situazione della ciclabile?
> Grazie
>
> Andreas
> --
> Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la
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Re: [Talk-it] Tag presenti in Italia

2019-05-12 Per discussione mbranco2

@Ale:
la giornata di ieri a Bergamo con i ragazzi dell'Avogadro è stata veramente
notevole, conto di rendicontarla anche in ML dopo aver sistemato foto e
clip che ho fatto.
P.S. ieri i ragazzi dell'Avogadro erano stati invitati dal Sermig a
Bergamo, alla giornata mondiale che fanno annualmente (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFSoAlqCk8A)

@Andrea:
ottimo, grazie!!
Non ricordavo più di aver già visto quella pagina , è perfetta e mi
riprometto di tradurla in italiano quanto prima.
E anche la pagina collegata (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits), che rimanda ad un
video molto interessante di un intervento a SOTM 2016 relativo ai
mechanical edits (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrvcVAPdaWI)
Voglio però estendere il concetto e chiamarlo "modifiche massive": se uno
decide di "normalizzare" tutti i village/town/city italiani in base
all'unico parametro del numero di abitanti che trova in Wikipedia, non mi
interessa se vuole farlo con uno script o con Josm, modificando manualmente
- uno ad uno - tutti i centri abitati.
Qualunque sia la modalità, non deve farlo senza discuterne prima nella
comunità seguendo la procedura (e ovviamente, in questo esempio, sarà
stoppato).

@Martin:
il video che ho citato prima fa degli ottimi esempi che dovrebbero
convincere tutti su quanto siano da evitare gli edit automatici.
Per chi non ha tempo di vederlo riporto il banalissimo esempio di
modificare tutti i "Building=yes" in "building=yes; se si facesse una
modifica del genere in modo automatico, anzichè controllare uno ad uno gli
elementi da modificare:
- se il building è mal disegnato ed è sopra una strada, nella Mappa
comparirà un nuovo edificio in mezzo alla strada (che almeno prima non era
visualizzato)
- oppure se l'edificio è duplicato ed il tag sbagliato è solo su uno: dopo
compariranno due edifici sovrapposti
- oppure ancora se il tag sbagliato era messo per sbaglio - anzichè sulla
way - sui 4 vertici della way...

Sono d'accordo con te che il mappatore locale è quello più titolato a
mappare la sua zona, ma alcune caratteristiche (non tutte ovviamente) le
puoi anche desumere dalle foto satellitari o di Mapillary.
Se trovo un "water=piscina_condominiale" (www.osm.org/way/585448948)
oppure un "water=pesca_sportiva" (www.osm.org/way/27359016) mi sento
autorizzato a modificarli, anche se sono stati mappati da chi abita lì
vicino e io non conosco quel posto...

Oppure: se cerchi water=river, ne trovi 556 in Italia: posso proporre una
modica massiva per sistemarli in waterway=river oppure waterway=riverbank?
ovviamente esaminandoli uno per uno.

Gli esempi che sto facendo vengono fuori da una recente analisi che ho
fatto con Overpass: delle 44.158 way e 1.149 relazioni con il tag
natural=water che ci sono in Italia, 33.819 way e 701 relazioni non hanno
associato anche il tag water=... Se mettessimo anche questo tag non
rimuoveremmo dettaglio di conoscenza locale, ma aumenteremmo il dettaglio
(anche non avendo conoscenza locale)

Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 10:08 Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 11. May 2019, at 22:52, mbranco2  wrote:
> >
> > Nel tuo primo intervento dici che ci sono 836 tipi di shop: bene,
> facciamo finta che io sia molto sensibile all'argomento, mi metto a
> studiare la casisitica e decido come normalizzarla
>
>
> il problema di ogni modifica “remota” (senza conoscere la situazione
> reale) è che puoi solo immaginare da tags già presenti di cosa si potrebbe
> trattare, mentre non è detto che è giusto quello che ti immagini. Sono
> generalmente contro le generalizzazioni e “normalizzazioni” senza
> conoscenza diretta del luogo, perché tolgono le sfumature e spesso
> rimuovono dettaglio di conoscenza locale.
>
> Ciao, Martin
> ___
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMappers meeting in Norfolk

2019-05-12 Per discussione Rob Nickerson

Hi Nora,

I hope the Norfolk event went well yesterday. I hope to see some more in
the future.

P.S. Once again, my apologies to the readers of the list if this is not
properly threaded reply. I looked at nabble as suggested but firefox warns
me that it is not correctly https secured so I won't be using that. I am
also not planning to set up another email account for just this. For now
you will have to live with my non-threaded replies.

Best regards,
*Rob*
(From Warwick)
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Re: [Talk-transit] Ideas for a simplified public transportation scheme

2019-05-12 Per discussione Tijmen Stam


On 09-05-19 23:03, Markus wrote:

On Tue, 7 May 2019 at 21:15, Jarek Piórkowski  wrote:


7c. From what I'm understand, this bus stop node does not have to be
connected to a pedestrian highway either, with routers presumably
jumping from the nearest highway?


Yes, this is what OsmAnd does.


8. A stop_location (to use ptv2 terminology) on the way that vehicles
travel on could help with things like calculating and showing the
likely route the bus will take, but this can also be calculated
without the stop_location node by projection of other stop objects
onto the way


It can be calculated. So why complicating mapping and maintaining
public transportation routes needlessly? :)


Because sometimes it can't (think of a fence or ditch between ways that 
is not mapped - besides, for renderers it is relatively hard to 
calculate whether there is something between a node and a way and 
whether that constitutes a barrier.


Please take note that the stop_position is _optional_ in PTv2! It 
doesn't need to be mapped!



9. There are some cases that do not cleanly fit into hw=bus_stop
"PTv1" tagging, for example a sign-only stop served by both buses and
trams, or a waiting platform served by both buses and trams
9a. Because we must retain hw=bus_stop per #3 and #5, any
accommodation of these cases must either be initially of tags, or
guidance on how to place highway=bus_stop tags


If we go for the "improved PTv1" solution, my suggestion [1] was to
place both highway=bus_stop and railway=tram_stop beside the road.
Thus, highway=bus_stop and railway=tram_stop can and should be
combined on one node.


The PTv2 solution has this all and unifies tram and buses, while not 
being more complicated than bidirectional PTv1, except it has some 
optional features that make things unambiguous in difficult cases...



10. Meaning of public_transit=platform tag is dependent on context, it
unifies/duplicates some existing tags, arguably it sometimes describes
imaginary things, and it is disliked by many editors


As i understand it [2], public_transit=platform does not describe
imaginary things. On a node, it means the waiting area of a stop
(i.e., it is equivalent to highway=bus_stop or railway=tram_stop), and
on a way or area, it means a real platform that acts as a stop (i.e.,
it is a combination of highway=bus_stop/railway=tram_stop and
highway=platform/railway=platform).

However, in my opinion it would have been better to create a tag like
public_transport=stop that -- as with all other tags -- always
(regardless of whether used on a node, way or area) means the same
thing (waiting area of a stop) and that could be used in combination
with highway=platform/railway=platform if there is a platform.


I think that is being pedantic. In The Netherlands, most "platform" bus 
stops can not be discerned from a normal sidewalk if not for a slightly 
raised kerb or block markings that have a second meaning of parking 
(within a certain distance of that marking).
To check whether someone is in the dirt or on pavement, one could always 
add a surface tag to the platform.



12. Many of the currently mapped tram systems have a railway=tram_stop
+ public_transport=stop_position node on the rail, so we should
probably not change this scheme either without good reason


I think that a simpler mapping and maintaining of the routes as well
as a better routing are good reasons enough. :)


As well as unification of tram and bus mapping (and train for the same 
matter)



13. There is currently no clear way for tagging stops that also have
physical platforms, except for PTv2
13a. This exists as physical feature in real world and should be
supported, in a manner compatible with platform-less stops
13b. Should we add bus_stop/tram_stop on one of the nodes of the
platform way [4]? Next to the platform? As pointed out by Markus, we
can't do what might be the most intuitive method of the platform
way/area sharing bus_stop tag because the platform is also a highway=
tag.


In my opinion, if we decide to stick with PTv1 tags, the best way
would be to add a highway=bus_stop or railway=tram_stop in the middle
of the highway/railway=platform way or area.


I don't understand what you mean here, with add a highway=bus_stop in 
the middle of what? Of the highway way where the bus drives, or in the 
middle of the highway=platform way?


Why would we need this double-tagging of a way:highway=platform + 
node:highway=bus_stop?


Wouldn't it be simpler to have one tag that has the semantic meaning of 
"place where one waits to board/alights" that has the same meaning 
whether it is one spot, a linear element or an area, whether it is for a 
bus, tram or train? That would be public_transport=platform!


IIVQ

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] modification Wiki JOSM

2019-05-12 Per discussione Vincent Privat

C'est bien ça. La référence de chaque page du wiki est la version anglaise.
Sa version s'incrémente de 1 à chaque modification.
On détecte si les autres pages sont à jour ou non avec ce numéro de version.
Tu peux voir les pages qui nécessitent un mise à jour ici:
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Translations/Statistics

Le dim. 12 mai 2019 à 16:34, lenny.libre  a écrit :

>
> Le 12/05/2019 à 12:24, marc marc a écrit :
>
> Le 12.05.19 à 10:16, lenny.libre a écrit :
>
> J'ai modifié la page https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Fr%3AHelp/Menu/File 
> (/Je n'ai pas
> encore enregistré les modifications/)
>
> Dans la fenêtre d'édition, il y a une ligne
> [[TranslatedPages(revision=2)]]faut-il modifier le n° 2 ?
> Y a-t-il un rapport avec la première ligne de l’aperçu
> Translation not up to date: @2 - @63 ?
>
> je pense que c'est lié au fait que la page anglaise est en version 
> 63https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Menu/File?action=history
> je pense que "le système" s'attend que tu reprennes la version 63
> anglaise pour faire la traduction de ce qui manque ou ce qui a été
> modifié depuis lors.
>
> Je comprends
>
> si tout tu as tout inclus ce qui existe dans la version 63 anglaise,
> tu dois probablement modifier cela dans la ligne dont tu parles.
> s'il reste d'autre chose à traduire, je ne la modifierais pas
> p'tre que cela permet à qlq de détecter les pages oü il reste
> des traductions à faire (j'en doute un peu vu l'age de la version 2)
>
> En fait j'ai tout traduit (avec les termes présents dans le menu de JOSM),
> j'ai juste mis quelques liens qui vont vers la version anglaise (le wiki
> ajoute (en) comme
> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/SearchNotesDownload)
>
> ou vaut-il mieux laisser un lien vers une page française qui n’existe pas
> comme actuellement le wiki laisse en gris avec un ?
>
> Et la actuellement, la version de la page Fr: est 18
>
> Cordialement,
> Marc
>
> Merci Marc
>
> Leni
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Re: [Talk-transit] Ideas for a simplified public transportation scheme

2019-05-12 Per discussione Markus

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 18:06, Jarek Piórkowski  wrote:
>
> A requirement would be having one direction per relation, otherwise
> vehicles going in opposite directions might still be mapped to an
> incorrect stop_position if 2+ trip directions pass through a station.

Yes, this was the idea: PTv1 tags, but separate route relations per
direction and route variant, and bus and tram stops placed at the
waiting area.

Regards

Markus

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Association du souvenir français

2019-05-12 Per discussione Yannick

Le 12/05/2019 à 16:30, Gwenaël Jouvin via Talk-fr a écrit :
> Bonjour à tous,
> 
> 
> En ce qui concerne la cartographie des monuments aux morts, certains 
> connaissent déjà le tag ref:FR:MemorialGenWeb [1] qui permet de lier OSM à la 
> base de Memorial Gen Web.
> 
> Par ailleurs, il existe une association dénommée « Le souvenir français » 
> qui, entre autres, entretien certains monuments et tombes [2].
> J’aimerais savoir si, lorsqu’il est évident que le monument est entretenu ou 
> a été offert par cette association (cas de certaines plaques, présence de 
> cocardes) il serait approprié d’ajouter la combinaison :
> "operator"="le souvenir français"
> 
> Dans ce qui existe, je n’ai trouvé que 2 points par taginfo et sur "name" :
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=Le%20Souvenir%20Fran%C3%A7ais
> 
> Merci.
> 
> 
> Gwenaël
> 
> 1. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:ref:FR:MemorialGenWeb
> 2. http://le-souvenir-francais.fr/lessentiel/entretenir/

Bonsoir,

Les Monuments aux Morts des communes sont entretenus par celles-ci.
Par contre les nombreux monuments et plaques sises dans les rues et
routes de campagne sont sous un statut très aléatoire.
En cas que de besoin on signale à la mairie qui fait le nécessaire et
seulement si cela ne bouge pas on avise le Souvenir Français et/ou les
associations d'anciens combattants.
Les carrés militaires des cimetières sont aussi dans cette mouvance où
le SF intervient en cas de défaut de la mairie.
Les cimetières militaires sont entretenus par l'État sous le contrôle du SF

Amitiés

-- 
Yannick VOYEAUD
Nul n'a droit au superflu tant que chacun n'a pas son nécessaire
(Camille JOUFFRAY 1841-1924, maire de Vienne)
http://www.voyeaud.org
Créateur CimGenWeb: http://www.francegenweb.org/cimgenweb/
Journées du Logiciel Libre: http://jdll.org
Généalogie en liberté avec Ancestris http://www.ancestris.org




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[Talk-it] Changeset 69828472

2019-05-12 Per discussione Andrea Enzo

Buongiorno,
il mapper gmpf ha cancellato una ciclabile per questioni di rendering, anche se 
mi ha detto che:  non è una questione estetica, ma più di leggibilità e 
fruibilità della mappa.
Qualcuno della zona Trieste sa com'è la reale situazione della ciclabile? 
Grazie

Andreas
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Re: [Talk-transit] Old railways

2019-05-12 Per discussione Tijmen Stam


On 12-05-19 17:48, Jarek Piórkowski wrote:

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 07:54, Tijmen Stam  wrote:

In my environment, some people are adding old ("razed" railways to
openstreetmak, of which no trace is visible in the field.
It concerns both old railways which have been gone since 1933, e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/592259029 (Note that this piece still
is somewhat visible, as it is now a road and partially a cycle path).


Hi Tijmen,

The "canonical" answer is that things that no longer exist in real
life and there is no trace of them do not belong in OpenStreetMap.

How strict you want to interpret this probably depends more on local
community consensus than on talk-transit guidance.

Tagging of removed railways that are now paths _in the same alignment_
seems relatively uncontroversial. https://osm.org/way/583243933 is an
example local to me.


Yeah, I hold that same thing too. Basically path and track I still 
double-tag as railway=abandoned, but when it becomes a proper highway, I 
generally don't.
I do tag razed when most of a longer railway is still (very) visible in 
the field, but short sections are no longer, as e.g. they have become a 
highway through/around a village. E.g. 
 or 
 (that latter should've 
been razed, not abandoned)



Your example of way 592259029 seems to me a bit
ambitious in that it traces alignment where it is no longer evident,
such as over houses, and https://osm.org/way/592259043 is a bridge
that no longer exists... I would not include this in OSM.



Another example is a tram line in Amsterdam that has been gone for a
year now , the area has
been completely redeveloped, no trace of the old tram tracks remains.


IMO this should not be in OSM.


Then we think alike.


I only recently found out about openrailwaymap, but I can't find much
information about it. It seems it gets its data from the OSM database.

Is there a way to store "razed" railways somewhere else, so they will
show up on openrailwaymap but not on OSM (they are rendered on some
renderers, e.g. OSMAND)


There does exist
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map which is a
separate database intended for things that used to exist but don't
anymore.

Although this would be technically and legally possible, I doubt that
OpenRailwayMap currently integrates data from OHM.


Thank you so much!

To not "lose" the hard work of others, I have copied (part of) the 
abandoned/razed railways from OSM to OHM, added it with data from 
Wikipedia. Now I have to remove the data from OSM, but that's quite some 
work so I will do that later.




Thanks for that!

Btw, do you know of a way to copy data from one layer in JOSM to 
another, while keeping it at the exact same position?


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[OSM-legal-talk] Colour your bits | Re: OSM for training ML machines

2019-05-12 Per discussione Rory McCann



On 10.04.19 16:39, Tom Lee via legal-talk wrote:
I have sometimes sene[sic] similar arguments about intellectual property 
brought up in engineering-focused conversations, which propose elaborate 
technical mechanisms by which data might be transformed, then recreated, 

> and in the process its intellectual property rights somehow purged.

I'm a techie, not a lawyer, but there's an interesting essay trying to
explain just this point to techies:

"What Colour are you bits?" https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23


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[Talk-br] RES: semanárioOSM Nº 459 2019-04-30-2019-05-06

2019-05-12 Per discussione Lucas Pereira

Para remover seu cadastro nessa lista de e-mail, acesse o site 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br e siga as orientações no final 
da página.

Enviado do Email para Windows 10

De: Mathilde Moaty por (Talk-br)
Enviado:sábado, 11 de maio de 2019 08:36
Para: OpenStreetMap no Brasil
Cc:Mathilde Moaty
Assunto: Re: [Talk-br]semanárioOSM Nº 459 2019-04-30-2019-05-06

Nao quero fazer parte dessa lista, por favor me tira, obrigada! 
Le 11 mai 2019 à 12:42, theweekly@gmail.com a écrit :

Bom dia,

O semanárioOSM Nº 459, o resumo de tudo o que acontece no mundo OpenStreetMap, 
está publicado *em português* : http://www.weeklyosm.eu/pb/archives/12067/

Aproveite!

Você sabia que também pode enviar mensagens para a nota semanal sem ser membro? 
Basta fazer login em https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/logincom sua conta OSM e 
usar a conta de convidado. Leia mais sobre como escrever um post aqui: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

semanarioOSM? 
Quem?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Onde?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Association du souvenir français

Bonjour,

Le 12.05.19 à 16:30, Gwenaël Jouvin via Talk-fr a écrit :
> J’aimerais savoir si, lorsqu’il est évident que le monument est entretenu ou 
> a été offert par cette association (cas de certaines plaques, présence de 
> cocardes) il serait approprié d’ajouter la combinaison :
> "operator"="le souvenir français"

si c'est entretenu par eux, oui c'est approprié.
si c'est offert sans être entretenu, bof

Cordialement,
Marc
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Re: [Talk-transit] Ideas for a simplified public transportation scheme

2019-05-12 Per discussione Jarek Piórkowski

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 09:57, Jarek Piórkowski  wrote:
> I can imagine calculating correct stop position being challenging in
> case of multi-lane bus stations like
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37096072 (looks like
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Islington_TTC_Bus_Barns.jpg in
> reality) or https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/617387384.

Follow-up: I've just re-read your other message where you mentioned
that with correct relation tagging, you would take a projection of
platform/bus_stop onto the nearest vehicle way which is in the route
relation.

In my experience the vehicle ways are included in route relations more
often than the stop/platform details, so it seems fair to expect that
if platform is mapped in detail, the routes using that platform will
have ways also included in the route relations. Of course route
relations are a bit prone to breaking, but so is detailed station
mapping.

A requirement would be having one direction per relation, otherwise
vehicles going in opposite directions might still be mapped to an
incorrect stop_position if 2+ trip directions pass through a station.

The possible edge cases I'm coming up with (trips where a vehicle
serves the same station twice _in one trip_ but on different
platforms) seem like they'd be incredibly rare so I am alright
ignoring them.

So I would agree that a strong case can be made for stop_position not
being necessary, provided we have a requirement that
platform/bus_stop/equivalent is not on the vehicle way, and that we
have only one trip direction in a route relation.

--Jarek

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Re: [talk-cz] Značení turistických trasy s tagem name = [barva] destinace

2019-05-12 Per discussione <0174

Ahoj,
díky za názory.

Aktuálně na tagging mailing listu probíhá na toto téma diskuse (hlavně o
jménech autobusových linek, ale názvy turistických tras se tam řeší
taky). Debata je stále živá, tak bych asi počkal, jestli to nějak
zkonverguje a pak se můžeme bavit o nějakém zákroku.

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-May/045180.html

Mimochodem, zaznělo tam, že v JOSM se dá nastavit, aby se v seznamu
relací ukazovaly i jiné věci, než jméno nebo ref:

Go to "Advanced settings" and search for the setting
"relation.nameOrder". There you can state a list of tags that JOSM
should try for the display name.

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2019-May/045242.html

Vojta

Dne 10. 5. 2019 v 9:11 Majka napsal(a):

V tomhle se asi neshodneme. Za mě to patří do description, jak pro editaci, tak
pro případné zobrazení přes render.

Protože jinak nemám možnost si to zobrazit jen v případě zájmu. Navíc name v
délce odstavce jen jen a pouze opruz.

A jaký je rozdíl pro editaci (v JOSM) mezi tím, mít to v name nebo description? Podle mě
žádný. Zobrazit si to můžu "v mapě" i tak, hledat v tom můžu taky...

10. května 2019 8:56:40 SELČ, Miroslav Suchy napsal:

Je pravda, že pracovat s relacemi, pokud nemají vyplněná jména je
šílený opruz.

Takže na mapování pro render (nebo mapovací nástroje) mám už trochu
volnější názor.

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Re: [Talk-transit] Old railways

2019-05-12 Per discussione Jarek Piórkowski

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 07:54, Tijmen Stam  wrote:
> In my environment, some people are adding old ("razed" railways to
> openstreetmak, of which no trace is visible in the field.
> It concerns both old railways which have been gone since 1933, e.g.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/592259029 (Note that this piece still
> is somewhat visible, as it is now a road and partially a cycle path).

Hi Tijmen,

The "canonical" answer is that things that no longer exist in real
life and there is no trace of them do not belong in OpenStreetMap.

How strict you want to interpret this probably depends more on local
community consensus than on talk-transit guidance.

Tagging of removed railways that are now paths _in the same alignment_
seems relatively uncontroversial. https://osm.org/way/583243933 is an
example local to me. Your example of way 592259029 seems to me a bit
ambitious in that it traces alignment where it is no longer evident,
such as over houses, and https://osm.org/way/592259043 is a bridge
that no longer exists... I would not include this in OSM.

> Another example is a tram line in Amsterdam that has been gone for a
> year now , the area has
> been completely redeveloped, no trace of the old tram tracks remains.

IMO this should not be in OSM.

> I only recently found out about openrailwaymap, but I can't find much
> information about it. It seems it gets its data from the OSM database.
>
> Is there a way to store "razed" railways somewhere else, so they will
> show up on openrailwaymap but not on OSM (they are rendered on some
> renderers, e.g. OSMAND)

There does exist
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map which is a
separate database intended for things that used to exist but don't
anymore.

Although this would be technically and legally possible, I doubt that
OpenRailwayMap currently integrates data from OHM.

IMHO if they want to show historic railways they should also include
OHM data, to support not having undesirable data in OSM. But I realize
it'd be quite a lot of technical work.

> Funny anecdote: OSMAND showing abandoned railways has on one occasion
> led me to a detour because I thought I saw a footpath cross a canal
> where a razed railway has a very similar rendering.

Arguably this is a bug in OsmAnd - things that are explicitly tagged
as no longer existing should probably not be rendered by a
general-purpose renderer.

However this also depends on the tagging being correct - for instance
OSM-carto renders railway=disused (there is a clear sign of a railway
but it is no longer used) but not railway=razed (no railway exists) or
railway=abandoned (tagging seems inconsistent [1] so I guess they err
on side of not showing disused things).

--Jarek

[1] P.S. I just realized 3 months ago I tagged railway=abandoned on
stretches where there is no trace of track but its past presence can
be derived from track remaining on either end of the cleared stretch.
I currently find my past decision questionable, but I imagine there
was tagging guidance somewhere that made me choose this over
railway=razed.

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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari

2019-05-12 Per discussione Volker Schmidt

Un domanda simile da parte mia:
Due tipi diversi di paracarri (?)
paracarro all'angolo [1] (proteggicasa ?)
paracarri lungo la strada [2] (una antica versione del guardrail ?). Si
trovano ancora in tanti posti ad intervalli regolari su strade su
terrapieno e simili

[1] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/b-k0fiE0haI2__HDRi9_IA
[2] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/EUWYWYBw1LlKHxefv0TVUg

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 17:01, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 12. May 2019, at 16:48, Dario Crespi  wrote:
> >
> > Ci sono un centinaio di queste "stzioni" (quelle relative alla parte
> militare sono migliori).
>
>
> forse si potrebbero considerare insieme _un_ museo? (esempio multipolygon
> con tutte le aree individuali come outer membri)
>
>
> Ciao, Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Cartes historiques

2019-05-12 Per discussione Vincent Bergeot


Le 10/05/2019 à 12:20, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :


Sur la page en haut à droite, dans contact figure :

lutz@historic.place

Comme c'est sur la page en Français avec un peu de chance cette 
personne parle français.


Oui tu n'as pas bien cherché^^.



bon oui je n 'avais pas bien cherché mais par contre c'est corrigé 
(merci pour les contacts).


cela renvoie maintenant sur les bonnes pages POP (PlateformeOuverte du 
Patrimoine) : 
http://gk.historic.place/historische_objekte/translate/fr/index-fr.html?zoom=19=44.8379=-0.56713=HaHbHcSaHe=w80044733


Bonne journée







--
Vincent Bergeot


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Attribution : confusion des "quest"

2019-05-12 Per discussione PanierAvide


Le 12/05/2019 à 16:22, deuzeffe a écrit :

Mais est-ce que Mapquest est _vraiment_ utilisé, za iz ze couechtionne.


Les images viennent de (a|b|c).tile.openstreetmap.fr, par contre dans 
les fichiers chargés on retrouve bien aussi des appels à Mapquest... En 
creusant un peu dans le code JS, on dirait que MapQuest était utilisé 
précédemment pour le fond de carte, puis que le fond est passé sur 
OSM-FR, mais que les dépendances à MapQuest sont restées.


Adrien.


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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari

sent from a phone

On 12. May 2019, at 16:48, Dario Crespi  wrote:

>> anche questa pagina suggerisce historic=*
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Aexhibit
> 
> Ecco, proprio quello che cercavo. 

però dice di non usare “exhibit=*” e di usare invece historic=* quando ci sono 
reperti storici:
exhibit=history for exhibits about history (contrast with historic=* for 
exhibits of historic artifacts).

Ciao, Martin 

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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari



sent from a phone

> On 12. May 2019, at 16:48, Dario Crespi  wrote:
> 
> Ci sono un centinaio di queste "stzioni" (quelle relative alla parte militare 
> sono migliori).


forse si potrebbero considerare insieme _un_ museo? (esempio multipolygon con 
tutte le aree individuali come outer membri)


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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari

>
> Per i singoli reperti potresti trovare qualcosa in historic (taginfo) e
> anche questa pagina suggerisce historic=*
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Aexhibit
>

Ecco, proprio quello che cercavo.

sembra una sorta di museo, certo, se uno facesse 50 chilometri per
> arrivarci rimarrebbe probabilmente male, oppure è più grande di quanto si
> vede?
>

Ci sono un centinaio di queste "stzioni" (quelle relative alla parte
militare sono migliori). Si estende per più di 2 km all'interno del parco
naturale del Ticino e oltre a queste cose abbastanza artigianali ci sono
trincee, muri paraschegge, piste aeree. Quindi nel suo piccolo è
interessante :-)

Grazie ancora,

Dario

Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 16:12 Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> On 12. May 2019, at 15:53, Dario Crespi  wrote:
>
> Sempre lungo la stessa strada, che è una sorta di museo a cielo aperto, ci
> sono anche delle installazioni particolari: alcune raccolgono oggetti
> agricoli e altri artefatti di interesse etnografico, mentre altre
> raccolgono residui bellici della seconda guerra mondiale (punte di
> moschetto, proiettili, bombe da addestramento, eccetera): come fare per
> queste?
>
>
>
> sembra una sorta di museo, certo, se uno facesse 50 chilometri per
> arrivarci rimarrebbe probabilmente male, oppure è più grande di quanto si
> vede?
>
> Utilizzerei un’area per il museo, se tourism=museum va bene, anche fee=no
> e indoor=no che sta molto avanti a outdoor=only/yes
>
> Per i singoli reperti potresti trovare qualcosa in historic (taginfo) e
> anche questa pagina suggerisce historic=*
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Aexhibit
> (cfr. “history”)
>
> Ciao, Martin
> ___
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[OSM-talk-fr] Association du souvenir français

2019-05-12 Per discussione Gwenaël Jouvin via Talk-fr

Bonjour à tous,


En ce qui concerne la cartographie des monuments aux morts, certains 
connaissent déjà le tag ref:FR:MemorialGenWeb [1] qui permet de lier OSM à la 
base de Memorial Gen Web.

Par ailleurs, il existe une association dénommée « Le souvenir français » qui, 
entre autres, entretien certains monuments et tombes [2].
J’aimerais savoir si, lorsqu’il est évident que le monument est entretenu ou a 
été offert par cette association (cas de certaines plaques, présence de 
cocardes) il serait approprié d’ajouter la combinaison :
"operator"="le souvenir français"

Dans ce qui existe, je n’ai trouvé que 2 points par taginfo et sur "name" :
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=Le%20Souvenir%20Fran%C3%A7ais

Merci.


Gwenaël

1. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:ref:FR:MemorialGenWeb
2. http://le-souvenir-francais.fr/lessentiel/entretenir/

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] How to get geolocation without problem into Wikidata

provided you do it for a substantial part of OpenStreetMap data, from my 
understanding you would trigger ODbL, i.e. you would be creating a derivative 
database.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Community_Guidelines/Substantial_-_Guideline

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] modification Wiki JOSM

2019-05-12 Per discussione lenny.libre



Le 12/05/2019 à 12:24, marc marc a écrit :

Le 12.05.19 à 10:16, lenny.libre a écrit :

J'ai modifié la page
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Fr%3AHelp/Menu/File (/Je n'ai pas
encore enregistré les modifications/)
Dans la fenêtre d'édition, il y a une ligne
[[TranslatedPages(revision=2)]]    faut-il modifier le n° 2 ?
Y a-t-il un rapport avec la première ligne de l’aperçu
Translation not up to date: @2 - @63 ?

je pense que c'est lié au fait que la page anglaise est en version 63
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Menu/File?action=history
je pense que "le système" s'attend que tu reprennes la version 63
anglaise pour faire la traduction de ce qui manque ou ce qui a été
modifié depuis lors.

Je comprends

si tout tu as tout inclus ce qui existe dans la version 63 anglaise,
tu dois probablement modifier cela dans la ligne dont tu parles.
s'il reste d'autre chose à traduire, je ne la modifierais pas
p'tre que cela permet à qlq de détecter les pages oü il reste
des traductions à faire (j'en doute un peu vu l'age de la version 2)


En fait j'ai tout traduit (avec les termes présents dans le menu de 
JOSM), j'ai juste mis quelques liens qui vont vers la version anglaise 
(le wiki ajoute (en) comme 
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/SearchNotesDownload)


ou vaut-il mieux laisser un lien vers une page française qui n’existe 
pas comme actuellement le wiki laisse en gris avec un ?


Et la actuellement, la version de la page Fr: est 18



Cordialement,
Marc


Merci Marc

Leni

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[Talk-de] Mediatek Logger (747) und GPS Datum Problem

2019-05-12 Per discussione Stephan Knauss


Hallo,

mit den Mediatek MT3329 basierten Loggern wurden Probleme bezüglich des 
GPS Datums nach dem GPS Week Rollover Anfang April gemeldet.


Betrifft die Transystem iBlue 747/747 A+ Modelle sowie auch baugleiche 
von Blumax oder QStarz.


Ich konnte bei einigen meiner Logger aus dem Archiv das Problem 
nachvollziehen.


Hier in den Kommentaren gibt es den Anfang der Diskussion:
https://www.technologyblog.de/2012/01/bt747-einstellungen-fur-i-blue-747a-gps-datenlogger/#comment-2493

Lösung war dann doch ganz einfach. Das Datum der RTC mit NMEA Befehl 
setzen, dann funktioniert es wieder.


Hier die genau Erklärung:

https://www.technologyblog.de/2019/05/gps-rollover-zerstoert-gps-logger/

Viel Spaß noch beim GPS Tracks aufzeichnen und nicht vergessen die auch 
sichtbar bei OSM hochzuladen.


Stephan


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Attribution : confusion des "quest"

2019-05-12 Per discussione deuzeffe


On 12/05/2019 12:30, marc marc wrote:

Le 11.05.19 à 15:47, deuzeffe a écrit :

http://www.crous-limoges.fr/restauration/carte-des-restaurants/ Le fond
me semble fortement être un fond osm-fr.

L'attribution est à MapQuest


j'ignore si la situation a changé depuis ton message


Non non, rien a changé, tout tout a continué :) Et ça ne date pas 
d'hier. Et comme le fait remarquer Adrien, ça doit être commun à tous 
les CROUS (donc dépendant du CNOUS ?)



   (l'api est appelée dans les en-têtes de la

page). Mais, quand on regarde en détail des url des tuiles, elles sont
en *.tiles.ospenstreetmap.fr. Comme si Quest avait été confondu avec
Quest.


il y a dan les attributions le (c) osm.org, ouf :)
je n'ai pas souvenir qu'osm-fr demande une attribution pour la
fourniture des tuiles même si c'est évidement sympa de le faire.


Mais est-ce que Mapquest est _vraiment_ utilisé, za iz ze couechtionne.

--
deuzeffe, toujours perplexe

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Attribution : confusion des "quest"

2019-05-12 Per discussione deuzeffe


Y a des chances, oui. Pas encore réussi à trouver qui est le concepteur.

Et j'aimerais bien savoir si je dis des bêtises ou s'il y a vraiment un 
micmac dans les sources des tuiles (et les attributions).


On 11/05/2019 16:57, PanierAvide wrote:
Pour info c'est aussi comme ça sur le site du CROUS de Rennes, donc 
possiblement sur tous les portails CROUS ?


http://www.crous-rennes.fr/cnous/carte-services-sc/

Adrien P.

Le 11/05/2019 à 16:08, deuzeffe a écrit :

Et pour l'attribution (à défaut des actions), tu en dis quoi ? :p

On 11/05/2019 15:55, Christian Quest wrote:

Et j'ai pas d'actions !

Le sam. 11 mai 2019 à 15:52, deuzeffe > a écrit :


    Hello,

    Soit la carte suivante :
http://www.crous-limoges.fr/restauration/carte-des-restaurants/ Le fond
    me semble fortement être un fond osm-fr.

    L'attribution est à MapQuest (l'api est appelée dans les en-têtes 
de la
    page). Mais, quand on regarde en détail des url des tuiles, elles 
sont

    en *.tiles.ospenstreetmap.fr . Comme
    si Quest avait été confondu avec
    Quest.

    C'est moi ou bien ?

    --     deuzeffe, illettrée en HTML et script mais intriguée.


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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari

sent from a phone

> On 12. May 2019, at 15:53, Dario Crespi  wrote:
> 
> Sempre lungo la stessa strada, che è una sorta di museo a cielo aperto, ci 
> sono anche delle installazioni particolari: alcune raccolgono oggetti 
> agricoli e altri artefatti di interesse etnografico, mentre altre raccolgono 
> residui bellici della seconda guerra mondiale (punte di moschetto, 
> proiettili, bombe da addestramento, eccetera): come fare per queste?

sembra una sorta di museo, certo, se uno facesse 50 chilometri per arrivarci 
rimarrebbe probabilmente male, oppure è più grande di quanto si vede?

Utilizzerei un’area per il museo, se tourism=museum va bene, anche fee=no e 
indoor=no che sta molto avanti a outdoor=only/yes

Per i singoli reperti potresti trovare qualcosa in historic (taginfo) e anche 
questa pagina suggerisce historic=*
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Aexhibit
(cfr. “history”)

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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari

>
> sicuro che non sono pietre miliari?
> E nemmeno di confine (forse il confine tra la strada e le particelle
> laterali)?
>

Sicurissimo. Indicano solo che è (ed era) una strada comunale. Per
inscription=s.c. ero già intenzionato a farlo. Grazie :-)

Dario

Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:57 Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> On 12. May 2019, at 15:04, Dario Crespi  wrote:
>
> dovrei inserire su OSM una serie di pietre poste lungo una antica strada
> che riportano la scritta "S.C." (che sta per Strada Comunale). Sul wiki ho
> trovato solo historic=milestone, ma non si tratta di pietre miliari.
>
>
>
> sicuro che non sono pietre miliari?
> E nemmeno di confine (forse il confine tra la strada e le particelle
> laterali)?
> In taginfo ho trovato historic=stone con 2300 (e =marker con 300).
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/historic=marker
>
> Market non ha definizioni
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dstone#Description
>
> in ogni caso aggiungerei sicuramente “inscription=s.c.” e se non dovessi
> scegliere historic=stone anche qualcosa come material=stone
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/material
>
> Ciao, Martin
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Re: [Talk-transit] Ideas for a simplified public transportation scheme

2019-05-12 Per discussione Jarek Piórkowski

On Thu, 9 May 2019 at 17:04, Markus  wrote:
> Could you please give some examples where the stop position can't be
> calculated from the waiting area? I'd also like to know for which use
> cases the stop positions are necessary.

I can imagine calculating correct stop position being challenging in
case of multi-lane bus stations like
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37096072 (looks like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Islington_TTC_Bus_Barns.jpg in
reality) or https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/617387384.

In case of Islington the individual stops/platforms are currently not
mapped, but if they were added, calculating the correct stopping
position will also require the router knowing if traffic in the region
is left hand or right hand - that is, on which side the buses have
doors, and thus in which lane they will be.

Then there is the weird case of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_station#Harvard_Bus_Tunnel where
buses run on the off-side, and some buses have doors on the off-sides
for historical infrastructure reasons.

Arguably the exact stopping position doesn't matter very much - does
it matter if you show the bus route on the next lane, 3 m over? But it
does complicate absolute correctness.

--Jarek

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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari



sent from a phone

> On 12. May 2019, at 15:04, Dario Crespi  wrote:
> 
> dovrei inserire su OSM una serie di pietre poste lungo una antica strada che 
> riportano la scritta "S.C." (che sta per Strada Comunale). Sul wiki ho 
> trovato solo historic=milestone, ma non si tratta di pietre miliari.


sicuro che non sono pietre miliari? 
E nemmeno di confine (forse il confine tra la strada e le particelle laterali)?
In taginfo ho trovato historic=stone con 2300 (e =marker con 300).
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/historic=marker

Market non ha definizioni
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dstone#Description

in ogni caso aggiungerei sicuramente “inscription=s.c.” e se non dovessi 
scegliere historic=stone anche qualcosa come material=stone 
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/material

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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari

Credo che potrebbe andare, grazie.

Sempre lungo la stessa strada, che è una sorta di museo a cielo aperto, ci
sono anche delle installazioni particolari: alcune raccolgono oggetti
agricoli e altri artefatti di interesse etnografico, mentre altre
raccolgono residui bellici della seconda guerra mondiale (punte di
moschetto, proiettili, bombe da addestramento, eccetera): come fare per
queste?

Per farvi capire meglio, questa è una di quelle di carattere etnografico:
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Via_Gaggio_a_Lonate_Pozzolo_-_utensili_agricoli.jpg

Dario

Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:29 Andrea Enzo <
andrea.lattm...@ga-2.it> ha scritto:

> historic=stone se sono storiche. 樂
> Sbaglio?
>
> Il 12 maggio 2019 15:04:33 CEST, Dario Crespi  ha
> scritto:
>>
>> Ciao a tutti,
>>
>> dovrei inserire su OSM una serie di pietre poste lungo una antica strada
>> che riportano la scritta "S.C." (che sta per Strada Comunale). Sul wiki ho
>> trovato solo historic=milestone, ma non si tratta di pietre miliari. C'è
>> anche historic=boundary stone, ma le mie pietre non segnano nessun confine.
>> Come fare?
>>
>> Grazie,
>>
>> Dario
>>
>
> --
> Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità.
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Re: [Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari

2019-05-12 Per discussione Andrea Enzo

historic=stone se sono storiche. 樂
Sbaglio? 

Il 12 maggio 2019 15:04:33 CEST, Dario Crespi  ha 
scritto:
>Ciao a tutti,
>
>dovrei inserire su OSM una serie di pietre poste lungo una antica
>strada
>che riportano la scritta "S.C." (che sta per Strada Comunale). Sul wiki
>ho
>trovato solo historic=milestone, ma non si tratta di pietre miliari.
>C'è
>anche historic=boundary stone, ma le mie pietre non segnano nessun
>confine.
>Come fare?
>
>Grazie,
>
>Dario

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[Talk-it] Pietre miliari poco miliari

Ciao a tutti,

dovrei inserire su OSM una serie di pietre poste lungo una antica strada
che riportano la scritta "S.C." (che sta per Strada Comunale). Sul wiki ho
trovato solo historic=milestone, ma non si tratta di pietre miliari. C'è
anche historic=boundary stone, ma le mie pietre non segnano nessun confine.
Come fare?

Grazie,

Dario
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Re: [OSM-ja] What is Japan_tagging?(Re: Proposed Japan tagging/Road typesの投票について)

2019-05-12 Per discussione Shu Higashi

hayashiさん、石野さん、コメントありがとうございます。

もしかしたらおふたりともJOSMユーザーでしょうか。
OSMに初めて触れる方が多く使うであろうiDで編集する際には
このところプリセットがかなり充実しているためタグの値がどうなのかで
迷うことは少なくなっていて（と私は思っていますが）
日本語でそれらしいキーワードを入れると、対応するタグが自動的にセット
されるようになっています。
（iDは勝手にやり過ぎという批判もあり、それがベストだとは思いませんが）
例えば「銭湯」、「庚申塔」、「ゲームセンター」はその名称で
検索すると自動的にタグがセットされ、タグの具体的なキーや値が何かを
意識せずともマッピングできます。
「鳥居」はヒットしませんでしたが、ヒットさせるように
登録する機構は整備されているのでgithubでコミットすれば
ヒットさせる内容を登録できるようになっています。
JOSMは長いこと触っていないので状況がわかりませんが
タグ付けの際にはキーと値を直打ちするケースが多いのでしょうか。
JOSMプリセットを充実させると直打ちは減るのかもしれませんね。

とはいえ、引きやすい一覧があると便利なのは理解できますし
エディタの補助機能に依存しすぎるのも良し悪しだとは思います。
現在の「JA:How to Map A」一覧の問題点は更新が遅れがちなことと
ワリと個人の思い込みや古いタグ付け（私自身が書いたものを含め）
が残っていたりすることだという気がします。
そのあたりを改善していけると良いですね。

2019/05/12 石野貴之 :
> 石野です。
> 私もJA:How to map
> aが無くなると困る人の一人です。タグを迷いやすいPOIの確認(例えばゲームセンターはamenityとleisureのどっちだったかなとか、
> social_facility=day_careは下線が必要だったかな、といった場合)に重宝しています。
>
> また、新規に承認されたタグで日本国内でも役立ちそうなものを紹介するのにも役立つはずです。私もこの4月に承認されたばかりのshop=fashion_accessoriesを表に追加しています。
>
> 現在投票中のタグでは、tag;PoliceとKey:golf_cartが承認されそうな状況なので、これらもJA:How to map
> aに追記しようと思っています。
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/tag:Police
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:golf_cart
>
> 石野 貴之
> yumean1...@gmail.com
>
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[OSM-ja] 鳥取西道路のタグ付けについて検証お願いします。

2019-05-12 Per discussione 石野貴之

石野です。
今後の高速道路のタグ付けについて、試金石となりうるものが登場したので検証をお願いします。

5月12日17時に山陰自動車道の一部である鳥取西道路の鳥取西IC～青谷ICが開通しました。

http://www.cgr.mlit.go.jp/tottori/road/torinishi/index.html

OSM上で、この道路は17時40分くらいの段階ですでにマッピングされていましたが、タグがaccess=no,
motor_vehicle=noその他になっていました。これは、恐らく工事中の段階で通行止めを明記するために付けたタグだと思われ、Japan_taggingのImpliesにaccess=noがあるから付けたタグではないように私には感じられました。

私はこの道路について、変更セット
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70157182
にて、以下のようにタグを変更しました。
(1) access=noは残したままで、motorcar=designated, motorcycle=designatedを付加する。
(2) motor_vehicle=noは削除し、通行不能な車両種別(moped, mofa,agricultural)について個別にnoをつける。

私は
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging/Access_transportation_mode
で定められた車両種別の階層を考慮して上のようにタグ付けをしましたが、
その結果、
(a) 前後のウエイとのタグ付けの一貫性がない。
(b) タグ付けが冗長である。
(c) 地図上で破線付きでレンダリングされており、利用者に通行不能であるかの如き印象を与える。

といった問題が生じています。どうすれば良かったのでしょうか。
もちろん、(c)だけを理由にタグを変える(レンダラーのためのタグ付け)ことはしないつもりです。

石野 貴之
yumean1...@gmail.com
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[Talk-transit] Old railways

2019-05-12 Per discussione Tijmen Stam


Hello,

In my environment, some people are adding old ("razed" railways to 
openstreetmak, of which no trace is visible in the field.
It concerns both old railways which have been gone since 1933, e.g. 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/592259029 (Note that this piece still 
is somewhat visible, as it is now a road and partially a cycle path).


Another example is a tram line in Amsterdam that has been gone for a 
year now , the area has 
been completely redeveloped, no trace of the old tram tracks remains.


Although I am a great fan of abandoned railways, IMHO such "razed" 
railways or other objects of which no trace remains, don't belong on OSM 
(although there is much discussion, see 
). 



I only recently found out about openrailwaymap, but I can't find much 
information about it. It seems it gets its data from the OSM database.


Is there a way to store "razed" railways somewhere else, so they will 
show up on openrailwaymap but not on OSM (they are rendered on some 
renderers, e.g. OSMAND)


Funny anecdote: OSMAND showing abandoned railways has on one occasion 
led me to a detour because I thought I saw a footpath cross a canal 
where a razed railway has a very similar rendering.


Tijmen / IIVQ

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[OSM-talk] Downsides of storing QA data in OSM data, Way ids! | Re: iD invents nosquare=yes for buildings which should not be squared

2019-05-12 Per discussione Rory McCann



There certainly is benefit to piggybacking QA data on the OSM databases,
but there are downsides. Moving a node will not change the way's version
id. This change can make the building square/notsqure/overlap/whatever.
The way needs to be rechecked by the QA tool. But it can't know know
that from the way version.

On 10.05.19 22:17, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 3:39 PM Yves > wrote:


Some validation tools, like Osmose, make great efforts to maintain a
'false positive' database.


If the same validation is done by multiple tools, they need to share the 
"false positive" data, otherwise only one tool would know not to change 
something, while another tool will encourage the user to make the same 
mistake.


So we either have to set up an OSM shadow database that contains all 
exceptions, e.g. "object  is exempt from validation ", or this 
data should be stored in the object itself, which seems to be a far more 
robust approach (same data store allows data consistency / versioning / 
user management / tracking / consistency between tools / same processing 
pipeline / ...).


If the objection to this is that users don't want to see junk data, I 
agree -- but we could simply dedicate a key namespace to validations, 
and hide it by default in JOSM and iD.


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Attribution : confusion des "quest"

Le 11.05.19 à 15:47, deuzeffe a écrit :
> http://www.crous-limoges.fr/restauration/carte-des-restaurants/ Le fond 
> me semble fortement être un fond osm-fr.
> 
> L'attribution est à MapQuest

j'ignore si la situation a changé depuis ton message

  (l'api est appelée dans les en-têtes de la
> page). Mais, quand on regarde en détail des url des tuiles, elles sont 
> en *.tiles.ospenstreetmap.fr. Comme si Quest avait été confondu avec 
> Quest.

il y a dan les attributions le (c) osm.org, ouf :)
je n'ai pas souvenir qu'osm-fr demande une attribution pour la 
fourniture des tuiles même si c'est évidement sympa de le faire.
Sur d'autre couche (hot entre autre), il y a
données (c) les contributeurs osm.org style (c) ybon, tuiles fournie
par osm-fr ou qlq chose du genre
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] modification Wiki JOSM

Le 12.05.19 à 10:16, lenny.libre a écrit :
> J'ai modifié la page 
> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Fr%3AHelp/Menu/File (/Je n'ai pas 
> encore enregistré les modifications/)

> Dans la fenêtre d'édition, il y a une ligne
> [[TranslatedPages(revision=2)]]    faut-il modifier le n° 2 ?
> Y a-t-il un rapport avec la première ligne de l’aperçu
> Translation not up to date: @2 - @63 ?

je pense que c'est lié au fait que la page anglaise est en version 63
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Menu/File?action=history
je pense que "le système" s'attend que tu reprennes la version 63 
anglaise pour faire la traduction de ce qui manque ou ce qui a été 
modifié depuis lors.
si tout tu as tout inclus ce qui existe dans la version 63 anglaise,
tu dois probablement modifier cela dans la ligne dont tu parles.
s'il reste d'autre chose à traduire, je ne la modifierais pas
p'tre que cela permet à qlq de détecter les pages oü il reste
des traductions à faire (j'en doute un peu vu l'age de la version 2)

Cordialement,
Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Modif majeure merdique

maps.me est un éditeur très limité (on ne peux ajouter qu'un nombre
très limité d'objet). dire qu'il utilisateur de maps.me n'est pas 
familier d'osm, du cadastre, de bano est un euphémisme puis
que tout ce cela est masqué ou absent dans maps.me

être "le vilain méchant", c'est bien ca défoule, et ca permet
à JB d'avoir des copains :-) mais après ca quelle solution ?

Si nouveau contributeur un a un vieux trognon, quel solution
la communauté lui propose-t-elle pour contribuer ?
OsmAnd plante sur les trognons (et n'est p'tre pas très adapté pour les 
débutants), GoMap n'est pas trèa adapté pour les débutants, autre idée ?
lui dire de s'acheter un Android ou de se balader avec un netbook
pour contribuer avec iD ou josm n'est pas une réelle solution.
Donc au final, c'est de sa faute si rien de + adapté n'est dispo ?

La communauté ne l'a pas accueillit + tôt pour le guider
dans ses premiers pas, tu te proposes pour aider ?
Malgré de nombreux appel, on ne semble être que 4 à le faire
régulièrement, le besoin est criant.
idem pour les changeset "review_request".
un rien moins pire mais besoin énorme aussi pour les notes.

Par contre pour la source, je suis d'accord avec toi,
il y a un soucis d'avoir utilisé l'ign pour leur position.
une partie des infos peuvent sans doute être blanchi
en vérifiant s'ils elles sont dans fantoir/cadastre (qui a envie
de le faire ?)
pour le reste, je vois pas d'autre solution que le revert en effet.


Le 10.05.19 à 20:22, jabali a écrit :
> Je vais passer pour le vilain méchant de service mais tant pis, j'assume.
> 
> Quelqu'un qui rentre des lieux-dits sous forme office=government ;
> shop=travel agency avec mapsme comme outil et ceci pour 100% de ses
> contributions n'est pas un familier d'OSM ni de son fonctionnement et des
> ses règles.
> Les BD  bano, fantoir, cadastre lui sont vraisemblablement inconnues.
> D'ailleurs, celui qui est familier de ces sources ne travaille pas avec
> MapsMe
> 
> Reste "arpenter" le terrain...
> Il n'y a pas d'infos sur le terrain. Certes on peut bien connaitre et
> reconnaitre  son coin mais de là à rentrer environ 1200 nodes lieux-dit  en
> seulement 14 jours en allant voir tous les paysans; forestiers; "gens du cru
> " sur une zone aussi grande, intervenants qui, bien sûr, connaissent 100%
> des lieux-dit de la carte IGN et au mêmes endroits. ( même ceux sur le
> terrain d'aviation ).
> 
> Je ne crie pas "au loup" car se sont des erreurs de débutant souvent
> sincères, mais le recoupage avec la carte IGN est troublant, pour ne pas
> dire sans appel.
> IGN
> https://i.postimg.cc/G3D0kD0K/beauvais-aerodrome.jpg
> A comparer avec osm.
> 
> Perso, sans infos plus convaincantes, je ferais un revert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/France-f5380434.html
> 
> ___
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Re: [Talk-transit] Ideas for a simplified public transportation scheme

2019-05-12 Per discussione Dave F via Talk-transit

For reasons I've already stated I disagree with everything in this post, 
but this epitomises why the public transport schema concept was a 
complete cock-up:



I think it is suitable to go the way of unifying it as much as possible under 
the p_t-umbrella.


 * It wasn't to enable routers to design software
 * It wasn't to add anything new to the database
 * It wasn't to make it mapping easier.
 * It wasn't to simplify tagging (the PT equivalent of highway=bus_stop
   requires 100% more tags!)

It was purely to satiate the compulsive desire to compartmentalize, 
group obsessively into boxes. The jumbled up mess of PT's wiki pages 
show It failed to simplify matters; to the extent even those who were on 
board at the beginning are confused.


Think of all that wasted time which could have been spent on 
productively adding quality to the OSM database.


DaveF



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Re: [Diversity-talk] OSMF seeks input for the upcoming board meeting

2019-05-12 Per discussione Heather Leson

Dear Colleagues, still time to give input. Also, I thought you might be
humoured that the F2F takes place in Brussels this weekend. This is
concurrent with Pride.


Heather

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 11:55 AM Heather Leson 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> OpenStreetMap Foundations' board is meeting next weekend in Brussels.
> There is a short survey to get your input. Note - Allen Gunn of Aspiration
> Tech will be reviewing this and guiding us.
>
> Details:
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2019/05/09/osmf-board-face-to-face-meeting-suggest-the-topics-and-issues-that-matter-to-you/
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Leson
> heatherle...@gmail.com
> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com
>
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Re: [OSM-ja] What is Japan_tagging?(Re: Proposed Japan tagging/Road typesの投票について)

2019-05-12 Per discussione 石野貴之

石野です。
私もJA:How to map
aが無くなると困る人の一人です。タグを迷いやすいPOIの確認(例えばゲームセンターはamenityとleisureのどっちだったかなとか、
social_facility=day_careは下線が必要だったかな、といった場合)に重宝しています。

また、新規に承認されたタグで日本国内でも役立ちそうなものを紹介するのにも役立つはずです。私もこの4月に承認されたばかりのshop=fashion_accessoriesを表に追加しています。

現在投票中のタグでは、tag;PoliceとKey:golf_cartが承認されそうな状況なので、これらもJA:How to map
aに追記しようと思っています。

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/tag:Police
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Key:golf_cart

石野 貴之
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Re: [talk-cz] POI - bivak

2019-05-12 Per discussione Vit Semenec via talk-cz

Napsal jsem mail na registrátora domény, jestli dotaz kolem využití dat 
přepošle. Jiný kontakt tam nevidím. On to je takovej web běžící 
setrvačností, ale evidentně ho pár lidí používá.

--

K importu do Locusu je třeba ještě smazat jedno lomítko. Je to krásně 
popsáno zde:

https://www.locusmap.eu/cz/locus-adventures-tip-an-open-database-of-mountain-huts-shelters-and-bivouacs/

V.

Dne 12.05.2019 v 8:46 Tom Ka napsal(a):
> Ahoj, na strankach neni (aspon na prvni pohled) vubec resena licence,
> takze do OSM to nejde jen tak vzit a nacpat.
>
> Jinak web je uzitecny, uz jsem parkat vyuzil, do OSM by se data
> hodila, takze jestli chce nekdo zkusit komunikovat s
> majitelem/provozovatelem, tak to bude chvalyhodne (ale jestli licenci
> neresi, tak by byl potreba souhlas vsech prispevatelu, coz je asi
> nerealne)
>
> Bye
>
> so 11. 5. 2019 v 16:20 odesílatel Vit Semenec via talk-cz
>  napsal:
>> Ahoj,
>> jestli to může být užitečné pro OSM nevím, ale třeba to někdo nezná a v
>> terénu použije.
>> http://boudy.info/
>> Pro Garmin i Locus  je potřeba GPX editovat a
>> nahradit v editoru  "https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz


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Re: [OSM-ja] What is Japan_tagging?(Re: Proposed Japan tagging/Road typesの投票について)

2019-05-12 Per discussione yuu hayashi

hayashiです

>> How to map a
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:How_to_map_a
> 必要性が薄れている気もしますが、無くなったとしたら困りますかね？

３．の「How to map a」は、日本的な地物のタグを検索する際にまだ使っています。（「銭湯」とか「庚申塔」「鳥居」など）
また、OSM wiki を検索するより簡単なので、OSMをやり始めた人にとっては手軽ななチートシートだと思います。

五十音順より良いまとめ方があるのかもしれませんが、現時点で「How to map a」がなくなると困るひとがいると思います。
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[OSM-talk-fr] modification Wiki JOSM

2019-05-12 Per discussione lenny.libre


Bonjour.

J'ai modifié la page 
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Fr%3AHelp/Menu/File (/Je n'ai pas 
encore enregistré les modifications/)
pour ajouter le nouveau menu "télécharger le long", j'en ai profité pour 
ajouter les icônes disparus, mis en cohérence avec josm et ajout des 
menus manquants.


Mais avant d'enregistrer les modifications je me pose des questions :

Dans la fenêtre d'édition, il y a une ligne
[[TranslatedPages(revision=2)]]    faut-il modifier le n° 2 ?

Y a-t-il un rapport avec la première ligne de l’aperçu
Translation not up to date: @2 - @63 
    
?


cordialement

Leni

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Re: [Talk-it] Tag presenti in Italia

sent from a phone

> On 11. May 2019, at 22:52, mbranco2  wrote:
> 
> Nel tuo primo intervento dici che ci sono 836 tipi di shop: bene, facciamo 
> finta che io sia molto sensibile all'argomento, mi metto a studiare la 
> casisitica e decido come normalizzarla

il problema di ogni modifica “remota” (senza conoscere la situazione reale) è 
che puoi solo immaginare da tags già presenti di cosa si potrebbe trattare, 
mentre non è detto che è giusto quello che ti immagini. Sono generalmente 
contro le generalizzazioni e “normalizzazioni” senza conoscenza diretta del 
luogo, perché tolgono le sfumature e spesso rimuovono dettaglio di conoscenza 
locale.

Ciao, Martin 
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Re: [Talk-it] Tag presenti in Italia

2019-05-12 Per discussione Andrea Musuruane

Ciao Marco,

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 5:46 PM mbranco2  wrote:

> Vedo che tutti di focalizzano sull'esempio che ho fatto, ma voleva essere
> solo un esempio!
> Il punto importante è avere una procedura per poter fare "modifiche
> massive" con il consenso della comunità, se no l'argomento iniziale
> sollevato da Ale non avrà risposte...
>

Mi sembra che la procedura ci sia già:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct

Oppure non ho capito.

Ciao,

Andrea
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Re: [talk-cz] cyklostezka skrz vojenský újezd Libavá

2019-05-12 Per discussione Tom Ka

ne 12. 5. 2019 v 0:44 odesílatel Majka  napsal:
>
> Za mě je to zmapované špatně.
>
> Tohle přece není cyklotrasa, natož pak cyklostezka. Je to v podstatě trasa 
> závodu.

Souhlasim, tady ma smysl to max. vyuzit pro zmapovani presnosti tech
cest a stezek, kudy to vede ale to je tak vsechno.

Bye

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Re: [Talk-it] Tag presenti in Italia

2019-05-12 Per discussione Alessandro via Talk-it


Il 11/05/19 23:08, mbranco2 ha scritto:

OPS, invio prematuro stavo dicendo:

Riterrei opportuno scrivere nella wiki, sotto "Modifiche massive" 

...
, e allora uno si sentirà autorizzato a fare una modifica
massiva, con gli strumenti che avrà indicato nella pagina wiki (fosse 
anche modificare manualmente, un elemento alla volta, in Josm...)




Sì, avevo capito, ma non so se lo sforzo di scrivere una pagina wiki con 
obbiettivi così generici abbia un senso.
E lo dico anche perchè se qualcuno si vuole dedicare alla wiki ci 
sarebbero molte altre pagine da aggiornare o migliorare.


Vista l'eterogeneità io vedevo più logico eseguire modifiche a mano.
Per fare questo chi ha un pc decente può scaricare l'estratto 
dell'Italia su Geofabrik (eh già, il comodo sito italiano degli estratti 
è ancora giù) e con osmium (1) facendo un tags-filter estrae i tag da 
correggere e li apre con JOSM per vedere dove sono (poi scarica 
quell'area e corregge il tag).


Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT

1) https://osmcode.org/osmium-tool/manual.html


P.S.: Marco, poi ci racconti com'è andata ieri con gli studenti 
dell'Avogadro?


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Re: [talk-cz] POI - bivak

2019-05-12 Per discussione Tom Ka

Ahoj, na strankach neni (aspon na prvni pohled) vubec resena licence,
takze do OSM to nejde jen tak vzit a nacpat.

Jinak web je uzitecny, uz jsem parkat vyuzil, do OSM by se data
hodila, takze jestli chce nekdo zkusit komunikovat s
majitelem/provozovatelem, tak to bude chvalyhodne (ale jestli licenci
neresi, tak by byl potreba souhlas vsech prispevatelu, coz je asi
nerealne)

Bye

so 11. 5. 2019 v 16:20 odesílatel Vit Semenec via talk-cz
 napsal:
>
> Ahoj,
> jestli to může být užitečné pro OSM nevím, ale třeba to někdo nezná a v
> terénu použije.
> http://boudy.info/
> Pro Garmin i Locus  je potřeba GPX editovat a
> nahradit v editoru  "https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz

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[Talk-ca] hebdoOSM Nº 459 2019-04-30-2019-05-06

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 459 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/12067/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-ht] hebdoOSM Nº 459 2019-04-30-2019-05-06

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 459 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/12067/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Notez! Vous pouvez utiliser Google Translate (http://translate.google.com) pour 
traduire les messages.

[OSM-talk-fr] hebdoOSM Nº 459 2019-04-30-2019-05-06

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 459 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/12067/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login avec votre compte OSM. Pour en savoir plus 
sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-africa] hebdoOSM Nº 459 2019-04-30-2019-05-06