Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-talk-ie] Mapping of footpaths and cycleways

[Dave Foley]

Personally I’m against separate mapping for the following reasons:


  1.  A highway/road shouldn’t be considered only for motor vehicles by default.
  2.  I don’t see any routing advantages to mapping it separately. If anything 
it makes the better cycleways, like the Dun Laoghaire coastal route, harder to 
find.
  3.  The area in question was around Adamstown - 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/53.33068/-6.45455, it was hard to see 
other features with three bridges, when in reality there is only one. With a 
Garmin device it was worse.
  4.  Some of the paths and cycleways tagged as part of the highway precede the 
individual paths.

On a different point the other user said he checked with the OSM Telegram 
account and people said it was ok to map separately. I don’t think it’s great 
to have two different places to discuss issues, or at the very least publish 
what was decided on the wiki so that people know what decisions were made.

Dafo

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows


From: Colm Moore 
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2023 4:18:12 PM
To: Donal Hunt ; davefo...@hotmail.com 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Mapping of footpaths and cycleways

Hi,

This is off-list again.

I'm preparing some notes. Can just the two of you send me some reasons to map / 
not map sidewalks?

Thank you

Colm

---
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the 
world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead


From: Colm Moore 
Sent: 10 February 2023 14:10
To: Donal Hunt ; davefo...@hotmail.com 

Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Mapping of footpaths and cycleways

Hi,

This is off-list.

It happens in places. Sometimes it is messy, sometimes it is trying to solve 
complicated situations.

I'll come back with a fuller answer later.

Colm

---
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the 
world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead


From: Donal Hunt 
Sent: 10 February 2023 13:28
To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland ; 
colmmoor...@hotmail.com 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Mapping of footpaths and cycleways

Hi Dave!

Thanks for raising this.

These are the type of quality issues we are hoping for the Quality Working 
Group (yet to be formally launched) to take a role in. I've CCed Colm who has 
worked on lots of quality issues over time and may be able to contribute to 
this discussion.

Do we know how widespread the issue is? There have been a few academic efforts 
in small geographic areas to map paths separately to capture access data.

In relation to how to proceed from here: with the increased funding for walking 
and cycling during the current government, there is a lot of interest in 
capturing data of completed projects, etc. I personally think that separate 
mapping makes sense if there are people willing to put the work in to capture 
and maintain it. There are lots of corner cases involving infrastructure being 
installed in a manner which results in separate mapping making sense.

I would suggest the following next steps:
- Discussion on best practice / community consensus on how to map (this email 
thread)
- Update of wiki documentation
- Data analysis to understand where these issues exist
- Cleanup tasks (via task manager)

Thoughts? Comments?

Donal

On Fri 10 Feb 2023, 13:07 Dave Foley, 
mailto:davefo...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,

An issue came up with the mapping of paths next to roads. If recall correctly 
it was on the wiki (or possibly somewhere else) that it was agreed to only map 
paths that were not beside a road or where there was cycleway running 
counter-flow to traffic. At some point people started mapping paths 
individually and now we have a mix of where the ‘sidewalk’ is mapped in the 
highway tag and some individual paths. Admittedly the wiki allows for both, 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sidewalks<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FSidewalks=05%7C01%7C%7C6452d2b5f8cd4a9275a108db0b6ac19d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C638116325354180695%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=NdALtON3TrvZGAATeT2iwJCmyobuu6pP%2BclPXBn6pco%3D=0>
 , but I don’t remember a discussion on changing to individual path mapping.

So if it was discussed and a decision was made can the Ireland wiki page be 
updated with this? If there is no consensus currently then I think it would 
better to reach one now.

Dafo

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Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986<https://emea01.safelink

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Counties missing townlands.ie

[Dave Foley]

The same user broke all the townlands around Casement Aerodrome as well - 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62861564

From: Killyfole and District Development Association 

Sent: Wednesday 6 November 2019 21:36
To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Counties missing townlands.ie

Yeah, there is a user going around removing admin_level from relations.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74220987 - County Derry/Londonderry
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74220718 - County Down and Ulster


On Wednesday, 6 November 2019 20:09:45 GMT Heikki Vesanto wrote:
> There were a couple of Counties missing from the main list on:
>
> https://www.townlands.ie/
>
> Down and Londonderry.
>
> They were also not appearing in the Counties download from
> https://www.townlands.ie/page/download/
>
> Looks like someone had removed the "admin_level" tag from them. I
> re-added the tag for Down yesterday and it is back up on the website,
> and added the tag for Londonderry today so should re-appear tomorrow
> once the site updates.
>
> Something to keep an eye on.
>
> -Heikki
>
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Administrative Boundary -v- Boundary

[Dave Foley]

I wouldn't worry about 'Administrative Boundary', it's just to distinguish the 
boundaries from other features on the map.  In Potlatch it shows as a purple 
line instead of the generic black line.

Dave

From: Colm Moore 
Sent: Tuesday 3 September 2019 00:31
To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Administrative Boundary -v- Boundary

Hi,

I tidied up the boundary of Cruiserath townland in Dublin 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5409087#map=15/53.4170/-6.3773 if 
someone could check it. I'm not happy that I got it all correct.

Looking at some of the adjacent townlands, especially those to the south, some 
seem to have an 'Administrative Boundary' while others have a 'Boundary'. I'm 
not sure what the difference is. I think they definitely need a look.

Colm

---
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries pulled to match ground features

[Dave Foley]

I fixed the Kilmashogue and Taylors Grange boundaries and did some tidy up on 
Marlay Park.


Dafo



From: Brian Hollinshead 
Sent: Saturday 1 September 2018 17:19
To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland
Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Townland boundaries pulled to match ground features

The boundary between Kilmashogue and Taylors Grange has been pulled out of
position to suit the Marlay Park golf course. Please see ways
openstreetmaps.org/way/563594212 and 213

Similarly openstreetmap.org/way/325217162 has been grossly pulled to fit
ground features.

These differences can be easily seen in JOSM using gsgs3906 image and in
maps.openstreetmap.ie which remains correct somehow.

I hope one of you knows please how to reverse this pull without hurting
other features and will do it. I do not regard it as within my competency
to undertake this.
Many thanks.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] NI Electoral Divisions and tagging schemes. A Suggestion.

[Dave Foley]

Good point, I don't think the wards are used anymore, maybe they could be 
included on the OSM townland map though?


Dave



From: Rory McCann 
Sent: 25 February 2017 17:07
To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] NI Electoral Divisions and tagging schemes. A 
Suggestion.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 25/02/17 12:10, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> Yes the white space for old Dublin City, on maps.openstreetmap.ie
> worries me gently from time to time. I wonder though whether if the
> townlands are so very old whether we should only tag city centre
> wards as admin-level=10 if they are the oldest wards we can find?

I don't think wards are still in current use, right? Tagging them as
admin_level=10 would mean that they were currently being used.

Adding them as "historic", like baronies, makes more sense.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] NI Electoral Divisions and tagging schemes. A Suggestion.

[Dave Foley]

I'm using 
http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/os_opendata.html?zoom=14=53.26797=-6.38816=B0FTTFF
 to compare the townlands, unfortunately it seems to end short of Dublin city 
centre. Can't remember who posted the link originally.


I see what you mean about the overlap around the South Circular Road, but I'm 
not certain the Dolphinsbarn townland is correctly mapped though 
http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=16=53.33313=-6.29108=BTF
 . I assume at some point the townlands and city wards matched up.


Dave



From: Brian Hollinshead <br...@hollinshead.net>
Sent: 25 February 2017 11:10
To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] NI Electoral Divisions and tagging schemes. A 
Suggestion.

Yes the white space for old Dublin City, on maps.openstreetmap.ie worries
me gently from time to time. I wonder though whether if the townlands are
so very old whether we should only tag city centre wards as admin-level=10
if they are the oldest wards we can find?

Dolphins Barn and Goldenbridge did extend in to South Circular Rd before
the city expanded to the Canal and Grangegorman East and West used exist, I
have seen them on 1837 OSI 6 inch in TCD.

Have been trying to find others and recently discovered that at least one
of the 9 Liberties had wards, (St Sephulchre's in particular,) have seen
names but not boundary detail yet.

More reading required.

Please Dave, which OSI data are you using, i would be interest to view Old
Dublin City.

Thanks


On 24 February 2017 at 20:56, Dave Foley <davefo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Very nice page Brian. Just wondering since there were no townlands in
> Dublin city centre would it make sense to tag them as admin_level=10? I
> also noticed the OSI has townlands marked in Limerick where there are none
> on OSM. I assume Cork city also had wards?
>
>
> The OSI data is very useful for finding errors in the townland boundaries,
> I even found a missing townland in Dublin (Taylorsgrange).
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> 
> From: Brian Hollinshead <br...@hollinshead.net>
> Sent: 23 February 2017 05:07
> To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] NI Electoral Divisions and tagging schemes. A
> Suggestion.
>
> Hi
>
> re Admin and historic boundary tagging
>
> I have added four sets of Dublin City wards, as at c.1780, 1838, 1849 and
> 1946
> I tagged them as
>
> boundary=administrative
>
> date=1849
>
> historic=yes
>
> name=Trinity Ward (1849)
>
> political_division=city_ward
>
> type=boundary
>
> I accept I have mixed my admin with political but was quite unsure. I still
> need to re-visit the tagging to check all are the same.
>
> They can be viewed at http://hollinshead.net/maps/dublincitywards/   I
> know
> sources list is incomplete.
>
> My intention was to move them to histosm.org now recently restored.
>
> I tagged historic Dublin City as
>
> boundary=historic
>
> historic=yes
>
> name=
>
> type=boundary
>
> your suggestions most welcome.
>
>
>
> I will start a separate thread because I also have added
>
> Government and Dail constituencies 1798, 1947 etc (6544843)
> Police Districts (6650495)
> Townships, Rathmines etc (6144162)
> DLR and Township wards (6640701 and 6575092)
> City extensions (6144262)
>
> and need shared opinions re tagging and whether they should be on OSM or
> histosm or both and how to migrate them to histosm?.
>
>
>
> News of OSM feature, new to me recently, I think it is brilliant:
>
> open OSM, zoom well in on National Library, Kildare St Dublin
>
> select ? icon on the right, it will go green
>
> click anywhere in the vicinity of the library
>
> view the scope of detail now brought together in left margin.
>
> ( any other folk interested in Dublin City boundary detail please email me
> directly)
>
>
> On 22 February 2017 at 22:48, Cormac O Murchú <c...@iol.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > First of all Northern Irish EDs cannot be tagged like Southern ones. This
> > is
> > because they are no longer Administrative Units as they were abolished in
> > the early 920s and replaced by Wards.
> >
> >
> >
> > From what I can see no wards in NI (these are still Admin Boundaries )
> are
> > tagged at present. This is a separate issue but there is no point tagging
> > EDs without tagging wards as well. Wards will have to be injected into
> OSM
> > with admin_level=9 given their legal status.
> >
> >
> >
> > In the strict sense they were never known as Electoral Divisions as that
> > nomenclature dates from the 1990s in

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] NI Electoral Divisions and tagging schemes. A Suggestion.

[Dave Foley]

Very nice page Brian. Just wondering since there were no townlands in Dublin 
city centre would it make sense to tag them as admin_level=10? I also noticed 
the OSI has townlands marked in Limerick where there are none on OSM. I assume 
Cork city also had wards?


The OSI data is very useful for finding errors in the townland boundaries, I 
even found a missing townland in Dublin (Taylorsgrange).


Dave



From: Brian Hollinshead 
Sent: 23 February 2017 05:07
To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] NI Electoral Divisions and tagging schemes. A 
Suggestion.

Hi

re Admin and historic boundary tagging

I have added four sets of Dublin City wards, as at c.1780, 1838, 1849 and
1946
I tagged them as

boundary=administrative

date=1849

historic=yes

name=Trinity Ward (1849)

political_division=city_ward

type=boundary

I accept I have mixed my admin with political but was quite unsure. I still
need to re-visit the tagging to check all are the same.

They can be viewed at http://hollinshead.net/maps/dublincitywards/   I know
sources list is incomplete.

My intention was to move them to histosm.org now recently restored.

I tagged historic Dublin City as

boundary=historic

historic=yes

name=

type=boundary

your suggestions most welcome.



I will start a separate thread because I also have added

Government and Dail constituencies 1798, 1947 etc (6544843)
Police Districts (6650495)
Townships, Rathmines etc (6144162)
DLR and Township wards (6640701 and 6575092)
City extensions (6144262)

and need shared opinions re tagging and whether they should be on OSM or
histosm or both and how to migrate them to histosm?.



News of OSM feature, new to me recently, I think it is brilliant:

open OSM, zoom well in on National Library, Kildare St Dublin

select ? icon on the right, it will go green

click anywhere in the vicinity of the library

view the scope of detail now brought together in left margin.

( any other folk interested in Dublin City boundary detail please email me
directly)


On 22 February 2017 at 22:48, Cormac O Murchú  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> First of all Northern Irish EDs cannot be tagged like Southern ones. This
> is
> because they are no longer Administrative Units as they were abolished in
> the early 920s and replaced by Wards.
>
>
>
> From what I can see no wards in NI (these are still Admin Boundaries ) are
> tagged at present. This is a separate issue but there is no point tagging
> EDs without tagging wards as well. Wards will have to be injected into OSM
> with admin_level=9 given their legal status.
>
>
>
> In the strict sense they were never known as Electoral Divisions as that
> nomenclature dates from the 1990s in the RoI only. They were DED’s at
> abolition time.  There are no name:ga names either, all the names must be
> English only.  Furthermore EDs were known as Poor Law Electoral Divisions (
> 1850 – 1898) for longer than they were known as District Electoral
> Divisions
> ( 1899-c. 1923) although census data was produced on an ED as well as on a
> Ward basis in NI until the 1950s.
>
>
>
> Nevertheless they are of considerable historical interest and I think I
> know
> how to tag them.. Here is the suggested scheme so that Nominatim disgorges
> all the variants.
>
>
>
> boundary=electoral_division
>
> alt_name=Drumsnot DED
>
> alt_name_1=Drumsnot PLED
>
> name=Drumsnot
>
> name:en=Drumsnot District Electoral Division
>
> place=locality
>
> type=boundary
>
>
>
> Input most welcome from all.
>
>
>
> Rgds
>
>
>
> C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Broken Islands

[Dave Foley]

There are a few islands like this (Valentia Island and Inis Meanin for example).


For names I don't see any reason to differ from the Wiki - 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name . For 'Hare Island' it looks like 
'Heir Island' is the more used.


While on the subject of islands, there seems to be a lot of differences on what 
they should be a member of (County, Barony, Province, etc). It would be good to 
have something agreed.


Dave

Key:name - OpenStreetMap Wiki
wiki.openstreetmap.org
Key Value Element Comment name: User Defined The common default name. (Note: 
For disputed areas, please use the name as displayed on e.g. street signs for 
the name tag.





From: Colm Moore 
Sent: 22 September 2016 21:20
To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Broken Islands

Hi,
Can someone look at Cape Clear (island) and Sherkin Island? The boundaries seem 
to be set up (and many details added), but they aren't areas.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/389717766http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/389900878
In comparison, Hare Island appears as an area.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/190629034

In parallel, do we have a policy on Gaeltacht names?
Colm

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 80, Issue 1

[Dave Foley]

I'd be in favour of scanning and rectifying as much as possible. It may take 
some time to do but it would be a great resource to have for the future.

Dafo

> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 11:15:15 +
> From: br...@hollinshead.net
> To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 80, Issue 1
> 
> Following a deafening non-response to last my last week's mail I badly need
> advice from as many of you as possible as to how I distribute or dispose of
> about 270 paper OS sheets of County Meath, all except 10 of these were
> published prior to 1965 and so are considered out of copyright. Ciaran had
> posted a list of c.1200 maps last july which caused no response but I
> recently received a futher donation 39 maps for Meath.
> 
> *Please I really would welcome some sort of voiced consensus or even near
> consensus as long as it is voiced*.
> 
> Are these a useful source of data (new data or for correcting typos
> unreadable from GSGS sheets)?
> 
> Does anybody want to use them as paper sheets with Bing to add still
> existing burial places etc?
> 
> There are 84 6", 193  1:2500 and 2 1:1250 and a townplan of 'Innfield'
> dating from 1943.
> 
> Does anyone think we should somehow scan the townplan maps with a view to
> at some later date add them to a maps.openstreetmap.ie layer as we have the
> Barthomelew etc?
> 
> Does anybody want to take some to wring them dry of data useful to add to
> OSM and then either keep the sheet personally or pass it on to their local
> studies group at their local library?.
> 
> OR DO I PUT THEM ALL IN THE CAR *NEXT SATURDAY *AND HAND THEM ALL OVER TO
> MEATH COUNTY COUNCIL Local studies section?
> 
> Please post your relies here whether or not you also wish to air the matter
> on facebook or Twitter?
> 
> Enquires also sought re maps of 22 other counties (excluding the special
> case of Dublin for the time being.)
> 
> Apologies if I sound frustrated but would rather not make a decision on my
> own. So please share your opinion now before it is too late.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> On 3 January 2016 at 12:00,  wrote:
> 
> > Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to
> > talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > talk-ie-requ...@openstreetmap.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > talk-ie-ow...@openstreetmap.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Talk-ie digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >1. Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 79, Issue 10 (Brian Hollinshead)
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 10:52:20 +
> > From: Brian Hollinshead 
> > To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 79, Issue 10
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > canspjscqs39prfouad1ugv1_o+x8q+gigxp5+9dkkt1bb4b...@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Out of Copyright OS map paper sheets for OSM use, see   Talk-ie Digest, Vol
> > 79, Issue 10
> >
> > Thanks to JMKIE and Dafo43 the OOC maps for Kildare and Wicklow have been
> > handed over or bespoken.
> >
> > Meath, Tipperary and Westmeath are the ones I am most interested in next
> > being invited to share but will be delighted to be asked about any other
> > counties.
> >
> > As these maps are a wonderful resource for us I look forward to hearing
> > from lots of you please.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > On 31 December 2015 at 12:00,  wrote:
> >
> > > Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to
> > > talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > talk-ie-requ...@openstreetmap.org
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > talk-ie-ow...@openstreetmap.org
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Talk-ie digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >1. Re: Uploaded all the remaining GSGS3906 sheets to mapwarper
> > >   for rectification (Dave Corley)
> > >2. Out of Copyright OS map paper sheets for OSM use
> > >   (Brian Hollinshead)
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 15:13:20 +
> > > From: Dave Corley 
> > > To: Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland 
> > > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Uploaded all the remaining GSGS3906 sheets
> > >  

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 73, Issue 11

[Dave Foley]

I think that's a great idea, the more maps there are the better the mapping. It 
can be hard to read some parts of the GSGS maps so having a backup would be 
handy.

Dafo

--- Original Message ---

From: Brian Hollinshead br...@hollinshead.net
Sent: 20 June 2015 09:38
To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 73, Issue 11

Hi Dave et al
I look forward to the meetup in Swords.
I was recently approached to see if I was interested in some used OS sheets
for OSM use and said Yes please.

They include over 400 real OS sheets (a small number are copies), of 6
(75% or so) 25and few 50. 85%+ out of copyright by print date. Many 1840s
and others 1910s either new or revisions.  Offaly, Sligo, Tipp, Westmeath,
Wexford, Wicklow, Meath, Kilkenny, Limerick, Louth, Kildare, Waterford and
Dublin. Also some townland index sheets.

While the 6inch are more readable than the GSGS scans we already have they
are in effect duplicates. More interesting are the larger scale sheets
particularly in or on the edge of now urban areas. As a trial I took a
photo of the 5 feet = 1 mile 1903 sheet of Taghmon, Wexford and imported it
into JOSM and geo-rectified it in a few minutes using the piclayer plugin.
Worked very well.

I propose bringing a small sample of the sheets next week and some photos
(by camera) that can be experimented with/learnt on if there is any
interest. If those coming are working on a particular county please reply
here and I will try to include some in the samples I bring.

I suggest that we consider offering those still in copyright or those of no
benefit to us first
to the local county Libraries and perhaps then to Local history Societies.
Partly for safe archival reasons but also as an OSM publicity and goodwill
tool.  *Please discuss.*

Looking forward to your opinions and meeting up next week.

On 16 June 2015 at 13:00, talk-ie-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:

 Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to
 talk-ie@openstreetmap.org

 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
 talk-ie-requ...@openstreetmap.org

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 talk-ie-ow...@openstreetmap.org

 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of Talk-ie digest...


 Today's Topics:

1. (no subject) (Martin Costello)
2. Re: (no subject) (Donal Diamond)
3. Next OpenStreetMap Ireland Meet - 27th June (Dave Corley)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 16:11:29 + (UTC)
 From: Martin Costello murtcoste...@yahoo.co.uk
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] (no subject)
 Message-ID:
 383724496.2211213.1434384689937.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Could I have sheet 23/11NW please.  Murt

 --

 Message: 2
 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:51:09 +0100
 From: Donal Diamond donal.diam...@gmail.com
 To: Martin Costello murtcoste...@yahoo.co.uk,  Discussion of
 OpenStreetMap in Ireland talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] (no subject)
 Message-ID:
 
 cab4yhm5k+ucygxioxrpq0ymv982ggz4nk2u-itgaqhpc+du...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 On 15 June 2015 at 17:11, Martin Costello murtcoste...@yahoo.co.uk
 wrote:

  Could I have sheet 23/11NW please.  Murt
 

 Uploaded all 4:


 http://mapwarper.net/maps?field=titlequery=IRL-GSGS-3906-23-11show_warped=0

 D



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 --

 Message: 3
 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 18:19:37 +0100
 From: Dave Corley davecor...@gmail.com
 To: Discussion of Open Streetmap in Ireland
 talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Next OpenStreetMap Ireland Meet - 27th June
 Message-ID:
 
 cahwd_ahwqvza0_vo3y_k954eyf1ug1e_qoqrbsrdvcooq5p...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Hi all,

 Time for another meetup maybe? I think so :)

 Fingal County Council are kindly donating space (and wifi) for us to use in
 the council building in Swords on 27th Jun located here
 http://osm.org/go/etqCH~JbZ-?m=

 We have the space from 9:30am to 6pm. I'll be sticking around for a while
 in the evening also for anyone who wants to go for drinks or a bite to eat
 afterwards.

 There will be no food provided however you are welcome to bring your own or
 there are plenty of cafe's and shops within a short walk in Swords itself.

 As with all other events, its open to anyone, so if you are a long time
 editor / newbie / hacker / data user or just plain curious, you are more
 than welcome.

 For those using the bus, there 

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Where's the coastline?

[Dave Foley]

I'm in two minds about it myself, I guess I would lean towards the Ordinance 
Survey map since you could argue there is some vegetation there. I personally 
would mark it inside the coastline and as wetland=tidalflat.

Dafo

 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2015 17:13:33 +0200
 From: molto...@gmail.com
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Where's the coastline?
 
 On 06/06/2015, Killian Driscoll killiandrisc...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi, maybe I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, but why try and reinvent
  the wheel when you can just compare how the land or water is already
  interpreted
 
 It's more important to be self-consistent than to follow another
 project's lead, even a well-respected one. Or to phrase it
 differently, sticking with your decision is more important than what
 your actual decision is.
 
 That said, I think that the coastline is at mean high-water spring
 tide principle is the most common (sometimes using high-water mark
 instead, which is close enough).
 
  look at the EPA map http://gis.epa.ie/Envision /
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Corine_Land_Cover and see what is land,
  transitional waterbody, coastline.
 
 AFAIU Corine doesn't have a notion of coastline the way OS does. It
 just deals with landcover, and categorizes those as salt marsh, which
 is an easy decision in OSM too. The OSi map on that website shows the
 north part of the wetland as land and the south part as water, which
 is really bogus and a nice example of the official government-funded
 maps not always being the best :p
 
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[OSM-talk-ie] Map request

[Dave Foley]

Can I request all of 8/1 and 8/3 (8/3 nw seems to be there but can't find it in 
the search).

Thanks
Dafo
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries

[Dave Foley]

Some of the townlands did have their boundary updated, such as Rock Big in 
Wicklow (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.7749/-6.1459) , see 
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/si/0333.html . But that seems to be more 
of an exception than a rule. 

Personally I would put the boundary on the existing level of the lake but keep 
Inishfale with as much of the original boundary as possible. Maybe it's 
something that can be looked at again when all the townlands are mapped?

Dafo

 From: killiandrisc...@gmail.com
 Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 15:49:33 -0400
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with 
 changed lake levels and new boundaries
 
 Thanks, I've just read the earlier messages.
 
 For the most part it's not probematical to use the new lake level, but it
 does raise some anomalies. For example:
 At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level contained
 an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of Derrynadooey to the
 west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 (
 http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/) which is listed
 as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the national
 monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland outline.
 The traced townland on the osm
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517
 of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official sites and
 monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such townland as
 Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided by osm.
 
 

  
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Irish boundaries map layer updates

[Dave Foley]

Great work Donal, that's really useful for checking mistakes with the 
boundaries.

Dafo

 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 22:53:43 +
 From: donal.diam...@gmail.com
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Irish boundaries map layer updates
 
 The map layers showing Irish boundaries is now updated every 15 minutes.
 
 This includes county/barony/civil parish/ed and townlands.
 
 The map server starts updates at 05/20/35/50 minutes past the hour and
 should have all Irish edits up to 00/15/30/45 minutes past respectively.
 Updates should take about 2 minutes.
 
 I also updated the townland layer to show area in fractional acres from
 zoom 14 onwards. This may help you compare the acreage value shown on the
 GSGS3906 maps to help spot obvious errors.
 
 For example, I picked a spot at random below and you can see that there are
 a few areas that have the wrong acreage due to some townlands being missed:
 
 http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=15lat=53.71215lon=-6.91047layers=000B0TTFFF
 
 eg Barfordstown is reported as 482 acres as we actually included  two
 townlands Barfordstown 283 acres and Boolies 198 acres. There's a similar
 issue with Calliaghstown nearby.
 
 When comparing fractional acres and  ARP (acres,roods, perches) on the map,
 bear in mind that:
 1 acre = 4 roods
 1 rood = 40 perches
 
 You'll also notice a small difference in the acreage size reported by
 townlands.ie and the map layer. That is due to the map layer transforming
 to Irish Grid when calculating the area to get a slightly more accurate
 calculation. Townlands.ie has to do a lot more analysis so uses a different
 spatial reference system.
 
 Anyway hope it helps.
 
 D
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] rectifying map

[Dave Foley]

It doesn't seem too bad to me, it's hard to get the map to exactly match in all 
points. Obviously maps with mostly water will be harder to align but even on  
inland maps I still refer back to Bing aerial photos to make edits and use the 
townland maps mainly for names and to get a rough idea of the boundaries.

Dafo

 From: carolinele...@eircom.net
 Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:42:48 +
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] rectifying map
 
 Hi everyone
 I am really struggling to rectify a map (05-05 SW) as it is so misaligned i 
 can’t add many control points - i have 11 but one is in the ocean to see if 
 it would help match the maps
 I have been adding and deleting control points all day to try and get a 
 erasable coverage but the map has been doing some peculiar warping.
 It is mainly ocean so its hard to get a good spread and there are not many 
 roads to match - 
 should i keep trying to find vaguely matched control points or is there some 
 technique to overcome this problem
 thanks
 c.
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request

[Dave Foley]

Thanks Donal, I should be able to work out the baronies from this.

 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 14:29:36 +
 From: donal.diam...@gmail.com
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request
 
 On 20 January 2015 at 19:35, Dave Foley daf...@outlook.ie wrote:
 
 
  3. I've seen some low-res maps for baronies, are there any other maps for
  this?
 
 
 Uploaded  wicklow barony map from Philips' Handy Atlas of the Counties of
 Ireland
 http://mapwarper.net/maps/7958
 
 D
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request

[Dave Foley]

There's a few in Wicklow, Aghavanagh and Bahana being 2 examples.
Well spotted on the typo. I'm planning to compare the townlands with the 
Wikipedia list at the end so I'll hopefully find all my typos then.
I did look at the videos but I don't remember everything that was mentioned and 
it would still be handy to be able to refer to the FAQ at times rather than 
trying to remember what video to look at. Just a suggestion anyway.

 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 14:25:51 +0100
 From: r...@technomancy.org
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 21/01/15 14:08, Donal Diamond wrote:
  Looking at townland index - both are in Ballykine Civil parish,  so
  their names actual are name=Sheeanabeg (Whaley)and
  name=Sheeanabeg (Robeck) .  That's an odd one all right.
  
  http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1901/Irelandactive=yesmno=453tocstate=expandnewdisplay=sectionsdisplay=tablesdisplay=pagetitlespageseq=845
 
 I've
  
 seen that in Clare. There's 4 Drumellihy (X)'s beside each other.
 
 http://www.townlands.ie/clare/drumellihy-cunningham/
 http://www.townlands.ie/clare/drumellihy-mac-donnell/
 http://www.townlands.ie/clare/drumellihy-westby/
 http://www.townlands.ie/clare/drumellihy-westropp/
 
 I presumed they used to be one townland and were then split donkey's
 years ago. Sorta like all the X West/X East townlands.
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 Version: GnuPG v1
 
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 =CcEu
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request

[Dave Foley]

Thanks for that Donal, I am looking for the 29-17 sheets as well if possible.
Regarding the townland in a separate civil parish, would it not technically be 
the same townland just with internal borders? Sorry for being pedantic and 
possibly this was already discussed but I just want to be sure.

 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 23:43:19 +
 From: donal.diam...@gmail.com
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request
 
 On 19 January 2015 at 19:58, Dave Foley daf...@outlook.ie wrote:
 
  Can I request sheets 32/17 SW and SE. Planning to complete Wicklow once I
  have the missing sheets.
 
 
 Uploaded IRL-GSGS-3906-32-17-SW-Arklow.tif
 
 http://mapwarper.net/maps/7933
 
 32/17 SE doesn't exist - Are you looking for 29-17 sheets?
 
 
 
  I also came across a townland that seems to have the same name as an
  adjacent townland, Ashtown, beside Wicklow town -
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/52.97393/-6.06740 . Anyone know why
  this would be and how I should map it?
 
 
 You can link to GSGS sheets here:
 http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=16lat=52.97418lon=-6.07083layers=BTTFFF
 
 Map them as seperate townlands -  they are in different civil parishes.
 
 D
 
 
 
  Dafo
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request

[Dave Foley]

Thanks for that, makes a lot more sense now. I was wondering why they didn't 
give some name in brackets to distinguish between the 2 townlands, so I guess 
the map was only concerned with duplicates in the same civil parish?
Dafo

 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:58:24 +
 From: donal.diam...@gmail.com
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request
 
 On 20 January 2015 at 09:23, Dave Foley daf...@outlook.ie wrote:
 
  Thanks for that Donal, I am looking for the 29-17 sheets as well if
  possible.
  Regarding the townland in a separate civil parish, would it not
  technically be the same townland just with internal borders? Sorry for
  being pedantic and possibly this was already discussed but I just want to
  be sure.
 
 
 Not pedantic at all - correctness requires us to tease out all the finer
 details. In OSM being pedantic is a virtue ;-)
 
 Townlands in separate civil parishes are still legally townlands in their
 own right:
 
 see
 
 http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1901/Irelandmno=453pageseq=46
 
 You can also check the 1911 supplement to see if there were any subsequent
 changes.
 
 http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/TOC?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1911/Irelandactive=yesmno=460tocstate=expandnewdisplay=sectionsdisplay=tablesdisplay=pagetitles
 
 In the case of baronies, as they were not changed as townland boundaries
 changed  there are cases where  the boundary will just go through the
 middle of a townland though.
 
 D
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request

[Dave Foley]

I've been tagging the townlands with the brackets included, this is based on 
what others have been mapping. I usually also add a placename in the center of 
the townland but do not include the (ED FOOBAR) on those.

A few more questions if nobody minds:
1. Why do townlands have ARP written underneath them?
2. How are people mapping EDs currently? I can see some ED boundaries but I 
find it hard enough even to see townland boundaries without trying to work out 
EDs. I don't see any names either.
3. I've seen some low-res maps for baronies, are there any other maps for this? 
4. Are there maps for Civil Parishes?

 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:19:12 +
 From: donal.diam...@gmail.com
 To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request
 
 Yes - a townland name is unique in each civil parish.
 
 The problem you'll see when you get to mapping civil parishes is that EDs
 started to be used more in the 1901 and 1911 censuses so the paper trail
 disappears.
 
 On the GSGS map you will see  Townland FOO (ED BAR)  and Townland FOO (ED
 FOOBAR)  to distingush different townlands with the same name.
 
 For both  you should do name=FOO  and maybe add a note=ED BAR until you get
 to mapping the EDs  themselves.
 
 D
 
 
 
 
 On 20 January 2015 at 14:48, Dave Foley daf...@outlook.ie wrote:
 
  Thanks for that, makes a lot more sense now. I was wondering why they
  didn't give some name in brackets to distinguish between the 2 townlands,
  so I guess the map was only concerned with duplicates in the same civil
  parish?
  Dafo
 
   Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:58:24 +
   From: donal.diam...@gmail.com
   To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
   Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request
  
   On 20 January 2015 at 09:23, Dave Foley daf...@outlook.ie wrote:
  
Thanks for that Donal, I am looking for the 29-17 sheets as well if
possible.
Regarding the townland in a separate civil parish, would it not
technically be the same townland just with internal borders? Sorry for
being pedantic and possibly this was already discussed but I just want
  to
be sure.
   
  
   Not pedantic at all - correctness requires us to tease out all the finer
   details. In OSM being pedantic is a virtue ;-)
  
   Townlands in separate civil parishes are still legally townlands in their
   own right:
  
   see
  
  
  http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1901/Irelandmno=453pageseq=46
  
   You can also check the 1911 supplement to see if there were any
  subsequent
   changes.
  
  
  http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/TOC?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1911/Irelandactive=yesmno=460tocstate=expandnewdisplay=sectionsdisplay=tablesdisplay=pagetitles
  
   In the case of baronies, as they were not changed as townland boundaries
   changed  there are cases where  the boundary will just go through the
   middle of a townland though.
  
   D
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[OSM-talk-ie] FW: Sheet request

[Dave Foley]

Can I request sheets 32/17 SW and SE. Planning to complete Wicklow once I have 
the missing sheets.
I also came across a townland that seems to have the same name as an adjacent 
townland, Ashtown, beside Wicklow town - 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/52.97393/-6.06740 . Anyone know why this 
would be and how I should map it?
Dafo
  
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