[Talk-transit] Bus stops in North America from GTFS data
Currently bus tops mapped locally in Ottawa seem to be either untagged or tagged in different ways. Maperitive default rules displays the icon and the name field. The GTFS (General Transit Feed Specification was Google TFS at one time) has three relevant tags these are stop_code, stop_name, and stop_id. The *stop_code* field contains short text or a number that uniquely identifies the stop for passengers. Stop codes are often used in phone-based transit information systems or printed on stop signage to make it easier for riders to get a stop schedule or real-time arrival information for a particular stop. The *stop_name* field contains the name of a stop or station. Please use a name that people will understand in the local and tourist vernacular. The *stop_id* field contains an ID that uniquely identifies a stop or station. Multiple routes may use the same stop. The *stop_id* is dataset unique. I'm proposing that the name field be built by concatenating the stop_code and stop_name fields. In the case of Ottawa the stop code is four digits and is displayed on each bus stop. The stop_name is displayed to the driver so he can announce the stops. An example is below. http://picasaweb.google.ca/lh/photo/qETGqJTUCEYzFln-38ugXQ?feat=directlink Cheerio John ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Bus stops in North America from GTFS data
You may want to follow British/German standard. There is a tag that identifies stops uniquely, sorry can't recall at the moment. The last time I saw it was Siegburg/Bonn train station. Do you mean the ref tag as on node 160621? I'd strongly advice not to follow that way. The ref has also been used to list the lines stopping there and should not be used for something else. I've never seen any item that identifies bus stops uniquely in Germany or Britain and is visible to the ordinary passenger. It is also not needed - all bus stops with the same name in the same town are usually very close together (just stops for different directions). But being unique would be never stated as a formal constraint. Buses sometimes stop at two nearby stops with the same name. Thus there is nothing comparable to the stop_code here in Germany. John, I would advice you to just set name to the stop_code if this is the thing displayed on the bus stops. It is very different from the northern European system. But passenger (or traveller) information is the primary goal of the OSM data. Thus a useful information in the tag that is expected to be crucial (name) is probably the best solution for Ottawa. Cheers, Roland ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Bus stops in North America from GTFS data
Ottawa is different. The passengers complain if the bus is one minute early or five minutes late. Quite unlike London in the UK where I used to live. I think it stems from the minus 30c in winter time, with wind chill it can be even colder, the passengers typically turn up about two minutes before the bus. Thanks for your thoughts. Cheerio John On 10 June 2010 20:25, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote: You may want to follow British/German standard. There is a tag that identifies stops uniquely, sorry can't recall at the moment. The last time I saw it was Siegburg/Bonn train station. Do you mean the ref tag as on node 160621? I'd strongly advice not to follow that way. The ref has also been used to list the lines stopping there and should not be used for something else. I've never seen any item that identifies bus stops uniquely in Germany or Britain and is visible to the ordinary passenger. It is also not needed - all bus stops with the same name in the same town are usually very close together (just stops for different directions). But being unique would be never stated as a formal constraint. Buses sometimes stop at two nearby stops with the same name. Thus there is nothing comparable to the stop_code here in Germany. John, I would advice you to just set name to the stop_code if this is the thing displayed on the bus stops. It is very different from the northern European system. But passenger (or traveller) information is the primary goal of the OSM data. Thus a useful information in the tag that is expected to be crucial (name) is probably the best solution for Ottawa. Cheers, Roland ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] Bus stops in North America from GTFS data
On 11 Jun 2010, at 01:49, john whelan wrote:
Ottawa is different. The passengers complain if the bus is one
minute early or five minutes late. Quite unlike London in the UK
where I used to live. I think it stems from the minus 30c in winter
time, with wind chill it can be even colder, the passengers
typically turn up about two minutes before the bus.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Cheerio John
On 10 June 2010 20:25, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote:
You may want to follow
British/German standard. There is a tag that identifies stops
uniquely,
sorry can't recall at the moment. The last time I saw it was
Siegburg/Bonn train station.
Do you mean the ref tag as on node 160621? I'd strongly advice not
to follow
that way. The ref has also been used to list the lines stopping
there and
should not be used for something else.
I've never seen any item that identifies bus stops uniquely in
Germany or
Britain and is visible to the ordinary passenger. It is also not
needed - all
bus stops with the same name in the same town are usually very close
together
(just stops for different directions). But being unique would be
never stated
as a formal constraint. Buses sometimes stop at two nearby stops
with the same
name. Thus there is nothing comparable to the stop_code here in
Germany.
In the UK stops on either side of the road typically have the same
'name', a different indicator sometimes imported into OSM as a
'local_ref' (or naptan:indicator).
In London and some other places the 'indicator' is often a single
letter (or pair of letters) which is used on local maps and at the top
of the pole and is unique locally Notice the 'D' indicator on top of
this bus stop:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/route79/2937392/
Here is a node in OSM which a 'Local_ref' code ('K' in this case)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/469771254
And here is the same stop on an official TfL map used in bus shelters
in the area.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/pdf/londonbridge-2163.pdf
This stop is also in a relation with the stop across the road:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/203739
But stops can be part of larger relations for a transport interchange,
in this case a railway station (although not all elements associated
with the station are included in this example yet) including
platforms, other bus stops etc.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/205097
Every UK bus stops also has a unique 'Naptan:AtcoCode' which is used
by information systems but not by humans.
Here are some pages about the UK dataset and the import
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN
For comparison, here is a typical German stop
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/638614538
In the UK we imported all the relevant data into a naptan: namespace
and then copied elements with OSM tags into the main OSM space. This
could be a good way of working in other countries.
Finally here is a proposal for tagging some of the more complex aspects:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Stop_Area
Regards,
Peter Miller
ITO World
www.itoworld.com
John, I would advice you to just set name to the stop_code if this
is the
thing displayed on the bus stops. It is very different from the
northern
European system. But passenger (or traveller) information is the
primary goal
of the OSM data. Thus a useful information in the tag that is
expected to be
crucial (name) is probably the best solution for Ottawa.
Cheers,
Roland
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