Re: [Talk-us] USA Rail: Calling all OSM railfans! (especially in California)

[Eric H. Christensen]

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On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 12:56:29PM -0700, stevea wrote:
> Especially if you are a "railfan" in California, please have a look. Or, if
> you are a rail enthusiast in another state, and want a template with which
> to jump-start better OSM rail completion in your neck of the woods, please
> copy what you might from this wiki.  It is a little bit "stubby" (some
> missing elements in the tables...) but it should provide a good launch pad
> for either a California railfan or an OSM mapper who wants to ignite a
> similar venture in another state.

Wow, this is starting to look good.  I mapped the tracks around Eastern North 
Carolina but there is still much to do.  I wonder if anyone has any information 
on Norfolk Southern or CSXT lines in North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland 
that I could use to help determine main lines versus branch lines.

- --Eric
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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Kevin Kenny]

On 03/17/2015 05:25 AM, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Alex Barth > wrote:


What do people think about how to properly retag place=hamlet in
US urban areas?

My colleague Eliane rendered out a map of all hamlets in urban
areas in the US:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/samely/diary/34541

I just posted how we could fix this:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/samely/diary/34541#comment29931


I'm in favor of a bulk edit for US hamlets within city boundaries to 
be retagged as place=neighbourhood




Careful with this!

In New York, hamlets are very often quite well-defined entities. They 
have road signs at their borders, the people who live in them 
self-identify as residents of the hamlet, they frequently have post 
offices named for them, and so on. What they lack is a distinct local 
government. Instead, their government is that of the township that 
contains them.


I would be quite annoyed if the hamlet that was my home town when I was 
growing up (Inwood, New York) were to be tagged as a "neighbourhood" of 
"Hempstead".  "Town of Hempstead," in the present day, has very little 
land in Hempstead - limited to a smallish tract surrounding the town 
hall. The rest of Hempstead is "Village of Hempstead" - whose residents 
self-identify as living in Hempstead. The residents of the 
unincorporated areas of the township do NOT identify as living in Hempstead.


Some of these "hamlets" are in fact medium-sized cities that never 
troubled to incorporate. Levittown, New York, for instance is a hamlet 
with a population of over fifty thousand.


And - local mappers have already done considerable tidying with respect 
to New York hamlets. This sort of mechanical edit means that the local 
mappers would have to go back and retag the hamlets yet again.


--
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin


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[Talk-us] USA Rail: Calling all OSM railfans! (especially in California)

[stevea]

http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/California/Railroads now documents an "early 
alpha" state of OSM rail in California.


Especially if you are a "railfan" in California, please have a look. 
Or, if you are a rail enthusiast in another state, and want a 
template with which to jump-start better OSM rail completion in your 
neck of the woods, please copy what you might from this wiki.  It is 
a little bit "stubby" (some missing elements in the tables...) but it 
should provide a good launch pad for either a California railfan or 
an OSM mapper who wants to ignite a similar venture in another state.


As is true of so many things OSM:  there remains much more to do, but 
look what we've already done!


http://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=en&lat=37&lon=-96&zoom=5&style=standard

Regards and happy mapping (whether rail or another sort),

SteveA
California

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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging (in general)

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Greg Morgan  wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Richard Weait  wrote:
>>
>> My initial reaction to any automated edit is to break out in a rash.
>
>
> I don't have the same reaction.  A long time ago I added building=entrance
> to buildings.  That tag was deprecated in favor of entrance=* at some point.
> A mapper comes along and changes building=entrance to entrance=main with a
> script.  I was about to send the mapper a thank you because he saved me a
> bunch of time, when his work was backed out.  So there I am left making the
> same changes manually that the script had already made.  My manual edits
> added no additional value to what the script had already accomplished other
> than wasting my time.  I could have worked on other more important issues.

+1 on this.
I see a strong benefit to careful mechanical tag gardening.

The argument gets hauled out that "this will impact data consumers".  That's
short sighted.  Over longer periods of time data consumers benefit
from consistent
tagging.

Instead we could create a low volume
"data-evolution-ale...@openstreetmap.org" mailing
list, where tag changes could be announced in advance.  Data consumers could
do what they are doing now, or register for alerts regarding the tags
they care about.

building=entrance to entrance=main is  particularly easy case because
there is no semantic change.
type and wood to leaf_type and leaf_cycle is harder, because of a
(probably beneficial) semantic change.

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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Bryce Nesbitt]

Would you put "bender's corner" on a map today?

If the barrier to cleaning is too great, not enough cleaning will happen.

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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Richard Welty]

On 3/18/15 2:51 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> Aren't some of these "hamlets" still used as postal addresses?
> In that sense, they still exist.
> Also, in the West we have the phenomenon of old rail
> infrastructure, such as watering stations, that were named. A good
> example is Adamana near the Petrified Forest. There are still a couple
> of houses there. Would will still consider those "hamlets"?
>
those are pretty much exactly one of the things that makes a hamlet.

richard

-- 
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Charlotte Wolter]

Everyone,

Aren't some of these "hamlets" still 
used as postal addresses? In that sense, they still exist.
Also, in the West we have the phenomenon 
of old rail infrastructure, such as watering 
stations, that were named. A good example is 
Adamana near the Petrified Forest. There are 
still a couple of houses there. Would will still consider those "hamlets"?


Charlotte


At 11:07 AM 3/18/2015, you wrote:

On 3/18/15 1:29 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Martin 
Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:


or maybe keep it as a historical place name, 
something like place=locality and 
old_name="Bender's Corner"? I agree that this 
is something local mappers with local knowledge should decide upon


I'm inclined to delete or move it to OpenHistoricalMap.Â

i'd like to see more of us thinking in terms of moving things to OHM, but...

1) make sure they really existed at some point in time

2) when possible, come up with at least years to 
use in start_date and end_date

tags.

richard

--
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 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
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Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techl...@techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Richard Welty]

On 3/18/15 1:29 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> or maybe keep it as a historical place name, something like
> place=locality and old_name="Bender's Corner"? I agree that this
> is something local mappers with local knowledge should decide upon
>
> I'm inclined to delete or move it to OpenHistoricalMap. 
i'd like to see more of us thinking in terms of moving things to OHM, but...

1) make sure they really existed at some point in time

2) when possible, come up with at least years to use in start_date and
end_date
tags.

richard

-- 
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search



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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Paul Johnson]

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
> 2015-03-18 3:48 GMT+01:00 Bryan Housel :
>
>> (IMO the “Bender’s Corner” hamlet should probably just be deleted
>> outright.  I live near it and there really is no such thing.)
>
>
>
> or maybe keep it as a historical place name, something like place=locality
> and old_name="Bender's Corner"? I agree that this is something local
> mappers with local knowledge should decide upon.
>

I'm inclined to delete or move it to OpenHistoricalMap.  Nonextant places
are annoying at best, dangerous at worst.  Insert anecdote about my father
who likes to take a motorcycle and his wife well into the Mojave, Sonoran
or Cimarron Desert and find random spots on the map hoping to find ghost
towns.  Usually he finds out how broken whatever map it is he's using is.
Granted, dad's smart about it and travels with a lot of gear in case they
gotta tough it out, but he legitimately worries about people who go out
there following a GPS blindly.  I'm trying to get him involved in the
project, if even only by Walking Papers or georeferenced photos and a GPS
tracker, though so far aerial imagery and "Dude, I gotta tell you where I
went on my last trip..." phone calls have been major help in the desert
southwest.
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Re: [Talk-us] On advocacy. (Rant-ish) Was: Retagging hamlets in the US

[Richard Weait]

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Greg Morgan  wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Richard Weait  wrote:

>> 3) New mapper fixes the BadHamlet and starts mapping their favourite
>> restaurants, bowling alleys and coffee shops.
>
> This is a great idea but I believe that you have the experience backwards. I
> can only speak for myself but as a new mapper but I had no interesting in
> fixing things.  I mapped features of interest or where I found the most
> rewards.

By all means keep doing what works for you.  Build on the suggestions
from many sources, of how best to talk to your friends / colleagues /
neighbours and get them mapping.

And, "thanks!"  It's not a new idea, of course.  This is the same way
Steve Coast started OpenStreetMap; talk to people you know and get
them to map things near them.  This part hasn't changed at all.

What has changed is that we have it way easier than Steve did in the
early days.  We can point to working renderings of OpenStreetMap data,
we can point to applications that consume or even edit OpenStreetMap
on most any device imaginable, we can point to tutorials and blogs
about this or that arcane aspect of the project that holds the
interest of our colleague, but perhaps not ours.  We can even point to
mailing lists and IRC channels in dozens of languages for help when we
don't have exactly the right words in common.

It's way easier to get a potential new mapper started today than it
was when Steve started all of this, over a decade ago.

What hasn't changed is that advocacy is a deliberate choice.  You have
to decide to do it.  But that decision can be as easy as reaching out
to a old contact on your favourite social network,saying, "What's up?"
and asking if they want to know about the mapping thing you do.

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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Your opinion about SOTM US

[SomeoneElse]

On 15/03/2015 23:20, Mikel Maron wrote:
On Saturday, March 14, 2015 9:59 PM, Alex Barth  wrote:
>Yeah, that's just setting up a HOT tasking manager right? Except the 
HOT tasking manager will probably choke on one half hour tasks for all 
of US :)


Set up multiple projects on the OSMTM, say 1 (or more) per state...




For info, the German community runs a joint mapping project every couple 
of weeks:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wochenaufgabe

http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2015/01/wochenaufgabe-kw-0607-apotheken/

Perhaps it's worth pitching a few counties where there's good aerial 
coverage to them for a future task?


Also, the West Midlands group in the UK have started having similar 
(quarterly) projects:


http://www.mappa-mercia.org/2015/01/suggestion-for-osm-uk-quarterly-projects.html

Cheers,

Andy

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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-03-18 3:48 GMT+01:00 Bryan Housel :

> (IMO the “Bender’s Corner” hamlet should probably just be deleted
> outright.  I live near it and there really is no such thing.)



or maybe keep it as a historical place name, something like place=locality
and old_name="Bender's Corner"? I agree that this is something local
mappers with local knowledge should decide upon.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Your opinion about SOTM US

[Greg Morgan]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Alex Barth  wrote:

>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:00 PM, Mike Thompson 
> wrote:
>
>>  The editor visits a site which accesses the JOSM remote
>>> control protocol. They fix up the TIGER date and indicate "Yes, I'm
>>> done" or "Needs more work", and after a couple of Yes votes, it gets
>>> taken out of rotation.
>>>
>> Sounds similar to the HOT OSM Tasking Manager?
>>
>
> Yeah, that's just setting up a HOT tasking manager right? Except the HOT
> tasking manager will probably choke on one half hour tasks for all of US :)
>
> Here's a map showing where TIGER is better than OSM:
>
> https://api.tiles.mapbox.com/v4/lxbarth.647bc246/page.html?access_token=pk.eyJ1IjoibHhiYXJ0aCIsImEiOiJFVXdYcUlvIn0.bbaHTEWlnAwGgyVwJngMdQ#5/39.724/-99.360
>
>
> Alex,

Thanks for another TIGER tool.  I used it to look at some areas and made
changes.  The map reminds me of another map that MapBox produced several
years ago using a slider tool.
Useful features:
* Timely updates.  The old slider map was never updated and lost value
after a couple of edits.  Oh! I see that my edits showed up.  The problem
is how do you remove the yellow TIGER data?
* iD, Potlach, JOSM, remote control features.

Interesting problems:
* The Census staff got the news of "sub-prime rate" subdivisions.  These
were plated but are still farmland.  It is too early to try and map the
subdivision.
* I added a "sub-prime rate" subdivision that had the grading in place with
construction tags.  The existing Tiger layers provided the names.
* I found some areas that had explosive growth.  I recall adding the areas
because of interesting buildings, etc.  The TIGER data still shows roads
that have been removed via new development.  For example a new commercial
area has yellow TIGER roads going through a building.
*  The false positives that I saw were related to "new construction"--well
it is several years old now.  An area was developed.  All the existing
roads were removed and folded into the new development. The yellow lines
remaining were, say, between the secondary road and the first road of the
subdivision.  The yellow road may have been the original alignment of the
secondary or possibly a farm road.

HTH,
Greg
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Re: [Talk-us] Retagging hamlets in the US

[Greg Morgan]

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Richard Weait  wrote:

> My initial reaction to any automated edit is to break out in a rash.
>

I don't have the same reaction.  A long time ago I added building=entrance
to buildings.  That tag was deprecated in favor of entrance=* at some
point.  A mapper comes along and changes building=entrance to entrance=main
with a script.  I was about to send the mapper a thank you because he saved
me a bunch of time, when his work was backed out.  So there I am left
making the same changes manually that the script had already made.  My
manual edits added no additional value to what the script had already
accomplished other than wasting my time.  I could have worked on other more
important issues.


>
> 3) New mapper fixes the BadHamlet and starts mapping their favourite
> restaurants, bowling alleys and coffee shops.
>

This is a great idea but I believe that you have the experience backwards.
I can only speak for myself but as a new mapper but I had no interesting in
fixing things.  I mapped features of interest or where I found the most
rewards.  I didn't start "fixing" issues until I had a great deal of
experience.  In addition, I think some of these hamlets might require more
research than a new mapper would be willing to stomach.  I believe that you
might just run the new mapper off.

Regards,
Greg
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Re: [Talk-us] Weigh stations on Interstates

[Greg Morgan]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> 2015-03-16 17:33 GMT+01:00 Harald Kliems :
>
>> In continuing mapping destination tag on highways based on Mapillary
>> imagery, I've come across the problem of how to tag weigh stations on
>> Interstate highways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_station). I
>> haven't found anything in the wiki, and I don't know enough how they work
>> to come up with reasonable tagging.
>>
>
> For those weighing stations I'd see them as a bigger object with the scale
> just being a part of it (if I understand that correctly), could be
> something like amenity or highway=weighing_station
>
>
I've used the amenity=weighbridge for weigh stations and "truck scales" at
farms and, say, quarries.   weighbridge was odd for may American thinking.
That may be the reason that it is hard to find in the OSM wiki.  The tag
page has a list of variations.  The page also wonders if the feature was
ever voted on.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dweighbridge
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Truck_scale
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_Features/Truck_scale

HTH,
Greg
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