Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Hi Jean-Marc, >2010/1/16 > > Take a look at tagstats : > > tagvalueuses > nodeway > > building collapsed 1,045 747 > 298 > > earthquake:damage collapsed_building 1,473 1,465 8 > > 2010/1/18 > tag value uses > buildingcollapsed 5,214 > earthquake:damagecollapsed_building3,107 > Looks to me that both variants got a huge increase in use over the last 2 days. So if you want to replace one variant with the other, you end up doing it constantly, as users seem to constantly add more collapsed buildings in both variants. Also it looks like the 'easier' variant is more accepted. Yes, it is 'ugly' in terms of data quality, but I see no problem so far. Maybe eventually it gets reasonable to unify those tagging variants, when the growing rate sinks significantly, but, in the long term the information will be removed from OSM anyway. We can learn from this and do it better the next time. Regards Micha ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Hi, > If the idea of removing one of the two does not generate enthusiasm, > would applying both tags everyhere be a better idea ? I don't believe > so, but I would love to read other opinions... Not in general. In this case it might be. > Actually, I'm surprised that no one else commented on this data quality > issue. Not a big issue mind you, but I'm wondering anyway... Looks like most other groups use our road data and do the damage assessment on buildings themselves. So it's probably not really important. Patrick "Petschge" Kilian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: > Micha Ruh wrote: >> 2010/1/16 Jean-Marc Liotier mailto:j...@liotier.org>> >> >> I tried to >> replace "building=collapsed" with "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" >> >> Please don't, it's useless, if not harmful. >> >> Why do you want to replace a simple, understandable, well established, >> broadly supported tag with something THAT complicated? >> >> It's ok, that another tag with the same meaning exists due to imports, >> but please DO NOT change well known and used tags with another one >> coming from an import. >> >> Especially not when the new tag is 35 chars long. Try editing that in >> potlatch. > > Take a look at tagstats : > > tag value usesnodeway > building collapsed 1,045 747 298 > earthquake:damage collapsed_building 1,473 1,465 8 > > We have two tags to describe the same thing. One is apparently more > widespread, more conformant to published standards and semantically > superior. > > What do others think ? Is tag length such an issue ? Doesnt > autocompletion solve the problem of tag length ? Is it desirable to > standardize ? Isn't it harmful to have two tags to describe the same > thing ? Is the value of harmonization inferior to the value of not > disturbing habits taken in the last few days ? Do we have past > experience or a policy for such things ? If the idea of removing one of the two does not generate enthusiasm, would applying both tags everyhere be a better idea ? I don't believe so, but I would love to read other opinions... Actually, I'm surprised that no one else commented on this data quality issue. Not a big issue mind you, but I'm wondering anyway... Tagstat update : http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/tagdetails.php?tag=building http://tagstat.hypercube.telascience.org/haiti/tagdetails.php?tag=earthquake:damage tag value uses buildingcollapsed 5,214 earthquake:damage collapsed_building 3,107 buildingyes 7,743 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Micha Ruh wrote: > 2010/1/16 Jean-Marc Liotier mailto:j...@liotier.org>> > > I tried to > replace "building=collapsed" with "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" > > Please don't, it's useless, if not harmful. > > Why do you want to replace a simple, understandable, well established, > broadly supported tag with something THAT complicated? > > It's ok, that another tag with the same meaning exists due to imports, > but please DO NOT change well known and used tags with another one > coming from an import. > > Especially not when the new tag is 35 chars long. Try editing that in > potlatch. Take a look at tagstats : tag value usesnodeway buildingcollapsed 1,045 747 298 earthquake:damage collapsed_building 1,473 1,465 8 We have two tags to describe the same thing. One is apparently more widespread, more conformant to published standards and semantically superior. What do others think ? Is tag length such an issue ? Doesnt autocompletion solve the problem of tag length ? Is it desirable to standardize ? Isn't it harmful to have two tags to describe the same thing ? Is the value of harmonization inferior to the value of not disturbing habits taken in the last few days ? Do we have past experience or a policy for such things ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
2010/1/16 Jean-Marc Liotier > Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: > I tried to > replace "building=collapsed" with "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" > Please don't, it's useless, if not harmful. Why do you want to replace a simple, understandable, well established, broadly supported tag with something THAT complicated? It's ok, that another tag with the same meaning exists due to imports, but please DO NOT change well known and used tags with another one coming from an import. Especially not when the new tag is 35 chars long. Try editing that in potlatch. Thank you. Regards, Micha ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: > > Now we have : > > tag value uses > earthquake:damage collapsed_building 1,499 > fixme:buildingcollapsed 1,492 > building collapsed 787 > earthquake_damage collapsed 2 > > Time for harmonization ? > > "earthquake_damage" should obviously be "earthquake:damage". Corrected two occurences. Edit at http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3628429 > "fixme:building=collapsed" looks like it should be > "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" - but maybe there is a reason for > "fixme" that I'm not aware of. As explained earlier, there is a reason for that, so I did not touch anything with "fixme:" > "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" is the ITHACA way. Should we > convert all the "building=collapsed" to it ? I would say yes, because > "collapsed" is not a type of building but a building attribute - the > ITHACA way is semantically superior. Where a "building=collapsed" was present, I want to set "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" instead. This would touch about 815 objects. Everywhere "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" was present, I want to add "building=yes" which seems logical and helps proper rendering. This would touch 2290 objects. All that seems logical to me, and I embarked upon doing it. I managed to make clean selections and edit them - but then on uploading my changeset would conflict with other data. I tried to get http://labs.geofabrik.de/haiti/latest.osm.bz2 and then as fast as I could (that is - not so fast on my four years old laptop) to replace "building=collapsed" with "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" and then add "building=yes" everywhere "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" was set... And everytime a conflict would prevent upload. I tried again five times... I give up for now - I'm going to bed - feel free to take it from there. Am I doing something wrong ? Is JOSM the right tool for editing tags on 3k objects or is there another way I sould use ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Jonas Krückel wrote: > Am 16.01.2010 um 00:08 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier: > [..] >> "fixme:building=collapsed" looks like it should be >> "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" - but maybe there is a >> reason for "fixme" that I'm not aware of. > [..] > > Please have a look at the information here: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import > Please do not change this tags right now. We are still not sure how > to work on further updates of the data and Ithaca might also still > need this tags. The text from the wiki at the above adresse : --- After checking the data, please remove the fixme tags in front of the other tags. Please keep the source tags. To find data that needs fixing (data with FIXME= ), open the ithaca-import-fixme.gpx from here in JOSM and zoom to the little crosses. --- So yes, there is definitely a reason for "fixme" that I was not aware of. I'll leave them alone ! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Am 16.01.2010 um 00:08 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier: > Jonas Krückel wrote: >> Am 15.01.2010 um 23:32 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier: >> >>> Talking about the ITHACA data set... I just took a look at the >>> dedicated Haiti Tagstats and I just found that the import of >>> "earthquake:damage" tags has been done with a value of >>> "collapsed_buiding" that of course should be "collapsed_building" : >> >> I think I've fixed it. Using http://www.petschge.de/osm/fixme_haiti/ >> and JOSM. No conflicts when uploading, 14xx objects changed. > > Now we have : > > tag value uses > earthquake:damage collapsed_building 1,499 > fixme:buildingcollapsed 1,492 > building collapsed 787 > earthquake_damage collapsed 2 > > Time for harmonization ? > > "earthquake_damage" should obviously be "earthquake:damage". > > "fixme:building=collapsed" looks like it should be > "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" - but maybe there is a reason for > "fixme" that I'm not aware of. > > "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" is the ITHACA way. Should we > convert all the "building=collapsed" to it ? I would say yes, because > "collapsed" is not a type of building but a building attribute - the > ITHACA way is semantically superior. > > If no one is depending on "fixme:building=collapsed" or > "building=collapsed" then I'll convert them. Does the map rendering of > collapsed buildings such as http://zvenzzon.mine.nu:81/map.html > understand "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" ? Considering the > number of icons represented, it would appear so. Please have a look at the information here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import Please do not change this tags right now. We are still not sure how to work on further updates of the data and Ithaca might also still need this tags. Jonas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Jonas Krückel wrote: > Am 15.01.2010 um 23:32 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier: > >> Talking about the ITHACA data set... I just took a look at the >> dedicated Haiti Tagstats and I just found that the import of >> "earthquake:damage" tags has been done with a value of >> "collapsed_buiding" that of course should be "collapsed_building" : > > I think I've fixed it. Using http://www.petschge.de/osm/fixme_haiti/ > and JOSM. No conflicts when uploading, 14xx objects changed. Now we have : tag value uses earthquake:damage collapsed_building 1,499 fixme:building collapsed 1,492 buildingcollapsed 787 earthquake_damage collapsed 2 Time for harmonization ? "earthquake_damage" should obviously be "earthquake:damage". "fixme:building=collapsed" looks like it should be "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" - but maybe there is a reason for "fixme" that I'm not aware of. "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" is the ITHACA way. Should we convert all the "building=collapsed" to it ? I would say yes, because "collapsed" is not a type of building but a building attribute - the ITHACA way is semantically superior. If no one is depending on "fixme:building=collapsed" or "building=collapsed" then I'll convert them. Does the map rendering of collapsed buildings such as http://zvenzzon.mine.nu:81/map.html understand "earthquake:damage=collapsed_building" ? Considering the number of icons represented, it would appear so. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Hi all, >> But I don't know yet how to perform mass edits to correct such >> typo... Can anyone do that - and tell us how it is done ? > > I think I've fixed it. Using http://www.petschge.de/osm/fixme_haiti/ > and JOSM. No conflicts when uploading, 14xx objects changed. Looks good. Only 4 collapsed_buiding left. Patrick "Petschge" Kilian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
2010/1/16 Jean-Marc Liotier : > But I don't know yet how to perform mass edits to correct such typo... > Can anyone do that - and tell us how it is done ? Use the search function in JOSM and just edit the tag in the tag pane. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Am 15.01.2010 um 23:32 schrieb Jean-Marc Liotier: > Jonas Krückel wrote: >> Am 15.01.2010 um 23:06 schrieb nicolas chavent: >>>* ITHACA >>> o Data model from ITHACA shp >>> o Categories - Classes >>>+ collapsed buildings >>>+ damaged infrastructure >>>+ landslide >>>+ spontaneous camp >> >> This data has been imported and I already got newer data. Help and >> suggestions for syncing and merging data in the future is needed. >> >> More info on >> that: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import > > Talking about the ITHACA data set... I just took a look at the dedicated > Haiti Tagstats and I just found that the import of "earthquake:damage" > tags has been done with a value of "collapsed_buiding" that of course > should be "collapsed_building" : > > tag value usesnode > earthquake:damage collapsed_buiding 1,496 1,495 > > But I don't know yet how to perform mass edits to correct such typo... > Can anyone do that - and tell us how it is done ? I think I've fixed it. Using http://www.petschge.de/osm/fixme_haiti/ and JOSM. No conflicts when uploading, 14xx objects changed. Jonas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Jonas Krückel wrote: > Am 15.01.2010 um 23:06 schrieb nicolas chavent: >> * ITHACA >> o Data model from ITHACA shp >> o Categories - Classes >> + collapsed buildings >> + damaged infrastructure >> + landslide >> + spontaneous camp > > This data has been imported and I already got newer data. Help and > suggestions for syncing and merging data in the future is needed. > > More info on > that: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import Talking about the ITHACA data set... I just took a look at the dedicated Haiti Tagstats and I just found that the import of "earthquake:damage" tags has been done with a value of "collapsed_buiding" that of course should be "collapsed_building" : tag value usesnode earthquake:damage collapsed_buiding 1,496 1,495 But I don't know yet how to perform mass edits to correct such typo... Can anyone do that - and tell us how it is done ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Tagging for Haiti: Humanitarian Data Models in support of OSM tagging for Haiti EQ
Am 15.01.2010 um 23:06 schrieb nicolas chavent: > > Hi there > > Here's a set of humanitarian data models for consideration in the making of > the OSM tags for the Haiti Operation to make our data easily readable and > interoperable with other established thematic data sets of relevance and used > by the hum mapping community in the response to the Haiti EQ. > > [...] > > See attached in html the UNOSAT and ITHACA data models from their last > releases. > > Damage Assessment Data model in support of OSM tagging > > UNOSAT > Data model from UNOSAT KML > IDP Sites > Bridges > Obstacles > Operational Status > Closed > Restricted > ITHACA > Data model from ITHACA shp > Categories - Classes > collapsed buildings > damaged infrastructure > landslide > spontaneous camp This data has been imported and I already got newer data. Help and suggestions for syncing and merging data in the future is needed. More info on that: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Haiti#Ithaca_Import Jonas___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
