Re: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options
Hi The On Saturday, September 28, 2019 8:34:37 AM you wrote: > Make it a graphic icon, and underlay it with an ALT text which on > hovering the mouse pointer over it, display the name of the language > Googling for "icons for languages" finds a lot of sources for such icons. But the graphic should not be the flag, it should be for latin the ISO letters and for non-latin (cyrillic, arabic, thai ...) a letter graphic as well. -- Best regards, Martin mar...@postzone.org TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) Pro (32bit, with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options
Hi The On Friday, September 27, 2019 11:09:22 PM you wrote: >> ISO639-1 writes "ar" and ISO639-2 "ara" for Arabic. > Would Somebody from Saudi Arabia know that? If so, then how about > from Morocco? TB does have Turkey, which I suspect is similar to and > different from other Arabic places. A person who uses the Turkish > variety would recognize the name of his own variant in the font used > in Turkey. >> For Russian it's "ru" resp. "rus" > Again, Latin ru/rus is not like the Cyrillic. ISO639 is not perfect - ISO stands for "International Organization for Standardization" and these standardized letters are much better than country flags. -- Best regards, Martin mar...@postzone.org TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) Pro (32bit, with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options
Hello everybody, on Samstag, 28. September 2019 at 06:08 Gleason wrote re [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options >>>> Would Somebody from Saudi Arabia know that? If so, then how about >>>> from Morocco? TB does have Turkey, which I suspect is similar to and >>>> different from other Arabic places. A person who uses the Turkish >>>> variety would recognize the name of his own variant in the font used >>>> in Turkey. >>> Besides which, I suspect Turks don't think of themselves as Arabs in >>> quite the same way that Egyptians and Lybians do. They are not Arabs, they are a people speaking a turcic language, leftover from one of those many nomadic horse riding invasions from the steppes in the North East of Asia, one of those peoples who suffered the fate that the door slammed shut behind them after they entered. >> They are not Arabs, they are Turks. And they changed from arabic >> letters to Latin letters almost 100 years ago. While the language we know as Turkish has incorporated a huge amount of words from Arabic (the most notable is kitap for book), it is a completely different language, part of the family of turkic languages which are spoken in Central Asia from Azerbaycan and Turkmenistan to Kazakstan and the Chinese province of Sinkiang, also known as East Turkestan. Side note on kitap: in original Arab it is kitab, with a voiced or sonant B at the end. Like German, the turkish language pronounces such endings voiceless, non-sonant. This is different from English (you recognize Germans speaking english this way). Kitab found its way into many languages, where ever the Islam penetrated. But the plural is language specific. In Arabic kuttub, in Turkish kitaplar, in Suaheli witab... Coming back to the issue discussed here: tr would be the sign for Turkish, in latin script. For Arab I would recommend the letter 'ain: ع Make it a graphic icon, and underlay it with an ALT text which on hovering the mouse pointer over it, display the name of the language Googling for "icons for languages" finds a lot of sources for such icons. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options
Thomas, > Hello Gleason, > On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 17:18:41 -0400 GMT (28-Sep-19, 04:18 +0700 GMT), > Gleason wrote: >> Gleason, >>> Martin, >>>> Hi The >>>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 10:46:57 PM you wrote: >>>>> Hello everybody, >>>>> on Freitag, 27. September 2019 at 18:46 Martin >>>>> wrote >>>>> re Icons for language options >>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 4:34:10 PM Gleason wrote: >>>>>>> Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I >>>>>>> suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. >>>>>> Why not use the letters of ISO 639? >>>>> I vote for that. >>>>> >>>>> DE for German. EN for English. >>>>> >>>>> But what about languages which are written in non-latin scripts? >>>>> >>>>> RU for Russian, but could this be in kyrillic script? How about Arabic? >>>> ISO639-1 writes "ar" and ISO639-2 "ara" for Arabic. >>> Would Somebody from Saudi Arabia know that? If so, then how about >>> from Morocco? TB does have Turkey, which I suspect is similar to and >>> different from other Arabic places. A person who uses the Turkish >>> variety would recognize the name of his own variant in the font used >>> in Turkey. >> Besides which, I suspect Turks don't think of themselves as Arabs in >> quite the same way that Egyptians and Lybians do. > They are not Arabs, they are Turks. And they changed from arabic > letters to Latin letters almost 100 years ago. No doubt they feel that way, sandwiched between Iran, the Middle East, Georgia on one side and Greece and Bulgaria on the other. Turkey is a complex place. The fact that they did at one time use the Arabic alphabet does say that they do share a good piece of that heritage. Wikkipedia says that minority languages in Turkey include the widespread Kurmanji, the moderately prevalent Arabic and Zazaki and a number of less common minority languages, some of which are guaranteed by the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne. So, yes, Arabic is spoken in Turkey even now, and that would mean the Arabic alphabet is used as well, but the only official language is Turkish, which itself has two variants in Turkey. > -- > Cheers, > Thomas. > Message reply created with The Bat! Version 8.8.9.12 (BETA) (64-bit) > under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 > > 'Using TBBETA' information: > http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Icons for language options
Thomas, > Hello Gleason, > On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 10:34:10 -0400 GMT (27-Sep-19, 21:34 +0700 GMT), > Gleason wrote: >> Martin, >>> Hi >>> Please do not use flags for icons for language options. Country flags >>> don't reflect languages: German is spoken in Germany, Switzerland, >>> Austria and more. French is spoken in France, Switzerland, Canada and >>> much more. >>> So icon for language options shouldn't be a flag. There are better >>> icons for that. >>> Example: https://i.imgur.com/4dsdKej.png >> Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I >> suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. >> Maybe the best way is to spell out the word in the font and language >> it represents. That way you aren't requiring a foreign language user >> to at least be able to recognize the word for their language in English. >> Some groups, like French Canadians for instance, really really don't want to >> use >> English for anything, even if they can. >> Of course there are many variants, like French in Thailand, Spanish in >> the Philippines. The Philippines is tougher though because their Spanish >> laps over into indigenous languages like Tagalog. Maybe Thailand >> is similar. > Not really, because nobody in Thailand (except people who come from a > French-speaking country such as France, or who learned it at school as > a foreign language) speaks French. More people here can speak German > than French, in my personal experience. And of course English and > Chinese, the two most important foreign languages. > The symbol for Thai language is quite easy and commonly used: ก But not present in the Latin alphabet. It might be true that Thailand is not a good example of the difficulty of referring to languages around the world with one or two Latin characters though. > That's the first letter of the Thai alphabet. > The Philipines is in a different situation: It was a Spanish colony > for a couple oif centuries, and the colonists left their language and > their religion. Thailand never was a colony, so there is only one > language here. There was, at one time a French Indo-China which was composed of certain parts of Thailand that were ceded to France by King Chulalongkorn. So says Wikkipedia. That all got rearranged during WWII when France lost much control over its colonies when Germany invaded. That doesn't necessarily mean that a lot of people there speak French. > -- > Cheers, > Thomas. > Message reply created with The Bat! Version 8.8.9.12 (BETA) (64-bit) > under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 > > 'Using TBBETA' information: > http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Icons for language options
Hello Gleason, On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 10:34:10 -0400 GMT (27-Sep-19, 21:34 +0700 GMT), Gleason wrote: > Martin, >> Hi >> Please do not use flags for icons for language options. Country flags >> don't reflect languages: German is spoken in Germany, Switzerland, >> Austria and more. French is spoken in France, Switzerland, Canada and >> much more. >> So icon for language options shouldn't be a flag. There are better >> icons for that. >> Example: https://i.imgur.com/4dsdKej.png > Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I > suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. > Maybe the best way is to spell out the word in the font and language > it represents. That way you aren't requiring a foreign language user > to at least be able to recognize the word for their language in English. > Some groups, like French Canadians for instance, really really don't want to > use > English for anything, even if they can. > Of course there are many variants, like French in Thailand, Spanish in > the Philippines. The Philippines is tougher though because their Spanish > laps over into indigenous languages like Tagalog. Maybe Thailand > is similar. Not really, because nobody in Thailand (except people who come from a French-speaking country such as France, or who learned it at school as a foreign language) speaks French. More people here can speak German than French, in my personal experience. And of course English and Chinese, the two most important foreign languages. The symbol for Thai language is quite easy and commonly used: ก That's the first letter of the Thai alphabet. The Philipines is in a different situation: It was a Spanish colony for a couple oif centuries, and the colonists left their language and their religion. Thailand never was a colony, so there is only one language here. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! Version 8.8.9.12 (BETA) (64-bit) under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options
Hello Gleason, On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 17:18:41 -0400 GMT (28-Sep-19, 04:18 +0700 GMT), Gleason wrote: > Gleason, >> Martin, >>> Hi The >>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 10:46:57 PM you wrote: >>>> Hello everybody, >>>> on Freitag, 27. September 2019 at 18:46 Martin wrote >>>> re Icons for language options >>>> >>>>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 4:34:10 PM Gleason wrote: >>>>>> Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I >>>>>> suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. >>>>> Why not use the letters of ISO 639? >>>> I vote for that. >>>> >>>> DE for German. EN for English. >>>> >>>> But what about languages which are written in non-latin scripts? >>>> >>>> RU for Russian, but could this be in kyrillic script? How about Arabic? >>> ISO639-1 writes "ar" and ISO639-2 "ara" for Arabic. >> Would Somebody from Saudi Arabia know that? If so, then how about >> from Morocco? TB does have Turkey, which I suspect is similar to and >> different from other Arabic places. A person who uses the Turkish >> variety would recognize the name of his own variant in the font used >> in Turkey. > Besides which, I suspect Turks don't think of themselves as Arabs in > quite the same way that Egyptians and Lybians do. They are not Arabs, they are Turks. And they changed from arabic letters to Latin letters almost 100 years ago. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! Version 8.8.9.12 (BETA) (64-bit) under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options
Gleason, > Martin, >> Hi The >> On Friday, September 27, 2019 10:46:57 PM you wrote: >>> Hello everybody, >>> on Freitag, 27. September 2019 at 18:46 Martin wrote >>> re Icons for language options >>> >>>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 4:34:10 PM Gleason wrote: >>>>> Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I >>>>> suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. >>>> Why not use the letters of ISO 639? >>> I vote for that. >>> >>> DE for German. EN for English. >>> >>> But what about languages which are written in non-latin scripts? >>> >>> RU for Russian, but could this be in kyrillic script? How about Arabic? >> ISO639-1 writes "ar" and ISO639-2 "ara" for Arabic. > Would Somebody from Saudi Arabia know that? If so, then how about > from Morocco? TB does have Turkey, which I suspect is similar to and > different from other Arabic places. A person who uses the Turkish > variety would recognize the name of his own variant in the font used > in Turkey. Besides which, I suspect Turks don't think of themselves as Arabs in quite the same way that Egyptians and Lybians do. >> For Russian it's "ru" resp. "rus" > Again, Latin ru/rus is not like the Cyrillic. -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options
Martin, > Hi The > On Friday, September 27, 2019 10:46:57 PM you wrote: >> Hello everybody, >> on Freitag, 27. September 2019 at 18:46 Martin wrote >> re Icons for language options >> >>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 4:34:10 PM Gleason wrote: >>>> Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I >>>> suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. >>> Why not use the letters of ISO 639? >> I vote for that. >> >> DE for German. EN for English. >> >> But what about languages which are written in non-latin scripts? >> >> RU for Russian, but could this be in kyrillic script? How about Arabic? > ISO639-1 writes "ar" and ISO639-2 "ara" for Arabic. Would Somebody from Saudi Arabia know that? If so, then how about from Morocco? TB does have Turkey, which I suspect is similar to and different from other Arabic places. A person who uses the Turkish variety would recognize the name of his own variant in the font used in Turkey. > For Russian it's "ru" resp. "rus" Again, Latin ru/rus is not like the Cyrillic. -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [SPAM] Re: Icons for language options
Hi The On Friday, September 27, 2019 10:46:57 PM you wrote: > Hello everybody, > on Freitag, 27. September 2019 at 18:46 Martin wrote > re Icons for language options > >> On Friday, September 27, 2019 4:34:10 PM Gleason wrote: >>> Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I >>> suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. >> Why not use the letters of ISO 639? > I vote for that. > > DE for German. EN for English. > > But what about languages which are written in non-latin scripts? > > RU for Russian, but could this be in kyrillic script? How about Arabic? ISO639-1 writes "ar" and ISO639-2 "ara" for Arabic. For Russian it's "ru" resp. "rus" -- Best regards, Martin mar...@postzone.org TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) Pro (32bit, with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Icons for language options
Hello everybody, on Freitag, 27. September 2019 at 18:46 Martin wrote re Icons for language options > On Friday, September 27, 2019 4:34:10 PM Gleason wrote: >> Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I >> suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. > Why not use the letters of ISO 639? I vote for that. DE for German. EN for English. But what about languages which are written in non-latin scripts? RU for Russian, but could this be in kyrillic script? How about Arabic? Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) Windows 7 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Icons for language options
Hi The On Friday, September 27, 2019 4:34:10 PM you wrote: > Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I > suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. Why not use the letters of ISO 639? -- Best regards, Martin mar...@postzone.org TheBat! 9.0.0.1 (ALPHA) Pro (32bit, with OTFE) on Windows 10.0 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Icons for language options
Martin, > Hi > Please do not use flags for icons for language options. Country flags > don't reflect languages: German is spoken in Germany, Switzerland, > Austria and more. French is spoken in France, Switzerland, Canada and > much more. > So icon for language options shouldn't be a flag. There are better > icons for that. > Example: https://i.imgur.com/4dsdKej.png Your image shows a Latin based A and something perhaps oriental. I suspect a single character font image won't be sufficient either. Maybe the best way is to spell out the word in the font and language it represents. That way you aren't requiring a foreign language user to at least be able to recognize the word for their language in English. Some groups, like French Canadians for instance, really really don't want to use English for anything, even if they can. Of course there are many variants, like French in Thailand, Spanish in the Philippines. The Philippines is tougher though because their Spanish laps over into indigenous languages like Tagalog. Maybe Thailand is similar. -- Gleason 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Icons for language options
Hi Please do not use flags for icons for language options. Country flags don't reflect languages: German is spoken in Germany, Switzerland, Austria and more. French is spoken in France, Switzerland, Canada and much more. So icon for language options shouldn't be a flag. There are better icons for that. Example: https://i.imgur.com/4dsdKej.png -- Best regards, Martin mailto:mar...@postzone.org TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) Pro (32bit, with OTFE) on Windows 7 6.1 7601 Service Pack 1 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html