Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Maxim, On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:36:08 +0300 GMT (18/Sep/09, 16:36 PM +0700 GMT), Maxim Masiutin wrote: I meanwhile submitted it to Bugtrack: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=7723 MM Thank you very much, but we won't fix anything in the current MM IMAP implementation. LOL! we won't fix anything - be careful not to be quoted on this one... ;-) MM We will release the completely new IMAP implementation that will MM have no bugs previously reported. I'm looking forward to this. Make it real and timely, this time. You have lost a lot of credibility over the past years promising this again and again. It will be hard work to repair TB!'s reputation for IMAP support. Some people on this list say that TB!'s IMAP support is acceptable, but believe me, out there TB! is a POP client with superior filtering abilities. It is not even mentioned along Thunderbird and Outlook when IMAP clients are listed. And many people tell me that POP is the way of the past. While I don't agree that POP is the past, I will soon get an email account that is IMAP only (or webmail), and I would hate to have to install another software or use webmail. (I'll probably use webmail, but managing the account in TB! would be more to my liking.) -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.10.6 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Thomas, While I don't agree that POP is the past, Why not? There is general agreement that mobility is the future, everything goes mobile. People (will) access their email from their PC at home, their laptop, their netbook, their iPhone (or other smartphone), their TV, their cordless phone (already possible here) and so on. While this is more and more the case in people's personal lives, it's already an absolute necessity in business. And the solutions are - webmail (what most novices use) - Exchange (what most businesses use; TB's implementation being even worse than IMAP) - IMAP As you see, POP is not among those :-) I would even go as far to say that IMAP alone is not the future either. The trend in business goes definitely towards Exchange (not necessarily MS Exchange), as well as collaboration through at least a decent calendaring system (not to talk about synchronizing of contacts). Outlook is the leader here, and Thunderbird 3 will have calendaring integrated as well. -- Best regards, Carstenmailto:gutha...@gmail.com Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:02:48 +0200, Volker Ahrendt wrote: We will release the completely new IMAP implementation that will have no bugs previously reported. In other words the new implementation will have brandnew bugs? Cool! Yes, and when that finally happens the sole surviving Beta! tester will answer with: Up running. [sniff] Sounds like the Charge of the Light Brigade -- Rick In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell v4.2.10.12 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Carsten, On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:02:07 +0200 GMT (20/Sep/09, 1:02 AM +0700 GMT), Carsten Guthardt-Schulz wrote: While I don't agree that POP is the past, CGS Why not? There is general agreement that mobility is the future, CGS everything goes mobile. People (will) access their email from CGS their PC at home, their laptop, their netbook, their iPhone (or CGS other smartphone), their TV, their cordless phone (already CGS possible here) and so on. While this is more and more the case in CGS people's personal lives, it's already an absolute necessity in business. And the solutions are CGS - webmail (what most novices use) CGS - Exchange (what most businesses use; TB's implementation being even worse than IMAP) CGS - IMAP CGS As you see, POP is not among those :-) I didn't want to go into a discussion of POP vs. IMAP. Let's suffice it to say IMAP and webmail require bandwidths that are not available over here yet. A friend from Germany came over and checked his email by webmail and was going crazy with the waiting times when pages had to load. IMAP is not necessary in business over here, but it depends on your way of life. When I'm not in the office, webmail is still better than carrying a USB stick around with Voyager. If I did (and I used to), I would still prefer POP so as to have the messages with me. I can then at least search in the archive if I cannot access the server, which happens often enough. CGS I would even go as far to say that IMAP alone is not the future CGS either. The trend in business goes definitely towards Exchange CGS (not necessarily MS Exchange), as well as collaboration through CGS at least a decent calendaring system (not to talk about CGS synchronizing of contacts). Outlook is the leader here, and CGS Thunderbird 3 will have calendaring integrated as well. Maybe that's true in your privileged world. Over here, POP is the still the way to go for some time to come, as we can download the mails in the background, and once they have been downloaded, they are accessable quickly at any time. Once we have bandwidths that come close to yours, I will look into this again. In the meantime, kindly keep in mind that most people don't have that bandwidth. I just came back from Cambodia, where super-fast internet is being offered by the leading provider: 512kbps. Yes, that a k, not an M. It costs something like US$ 20 or 30/month, half a worker's salary. Welcome to the real world. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.10.6 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MESSAGE LOSS (was: Upload to IMAP folder broken)
Hello Dwight, Thursday, September 17, 2009, 7:38:12 PM, you wrote: If youi mean that you cannot move messages from a local folder to an IMAP folder, I don't know why one would do that. That's exactly what I mean. You right-click on the message (in the message list) of the local folder, select copy to folder and then select the IMAP folder. After a while the message should appear there. Try first with a small message, you will see that it works. Then try with a message 2MB. -- Best regards, Carstenmailto:gutha...@gmail.com Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
I meanwhile submitted it to Bugtrack: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=7723 -- Best regards, Carstenmailto:gutha...@gmail.com Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Carsten, Friday, September 18, 2009, 9:51:24 AM, you wrote: I meanwhile submitted it to Bugtrack: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=7723 Thank you very much, but we won't fix anything in the current IMAP implementation. We will release the completely new IMAP implementation that will have no bugs previously reported. -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutinmailto:m...@ritlabs.com Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
I meanwhile submitted it to Bugtrack: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=7723 Thank you very much, but we won't fix anything in the current IMAP implementation. We will release the completely new IMAP implementation that will have no bugs previously reported. Simple question: when? Gives us some hope... -- Vili The Bat 4.1.11.13 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Szervizcsomag 3 Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Kertész, A reminder of what Kertész Vilmos typed on: Friday, September 18, 2009 at 12:56:16 GMT +0200 KV Simple question: when? Gives us some hope... Yes please. -- Best regards, Stuartmailto:skcu...@fastmail.fm Using The Bat! v4.2.10.9 On Windows Vista 6.0 Build #6002 Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Maxim and group, on Friday, September 18, 2009 at 1:36 AM you wrote: Thank you very much, but we won't fix anything in the current IMAP implementation. We will release the completely new IMAP implementation that will have no bugs previously reported. And there was a glimmer of happiness and hope in his eye. :) -- Neal Laugman Using TheBat! 4.2.10.12 AntiSpamSniper 3.2.1.1 Windows XP Service Pack 3 Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
am Freitag, 18. September 2009 um 11:36 schrieb Maxim Masiutin: We will release the completely new IMAP implementation KV Simple question: when? Gives us some hope... Yes please. If it is possible, i would also like to get a little timeline for that - that would be much hope for us (waiting for it). -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Jens Franik mailto:je...@gmx.de The Bat! 4.2.10.12 + AntiSpamSniper 3.2.1.1 + Gaijin XMP Makro Plugin 1.2 Language-File-Checksum: E8E56F88 Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 2 AMD Athlon Dual Core 4850e 2,50 GHz, 4 GB RAM Debian Lenny + Windows XP @VirtualBox 3.0.6 r52128 non-OSE 8 POP3 Accounts - 1 IMAP - 170 (Common) Folders - about 10 Messages Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
[Reply to: »Maxim Masiutin« · 2009-09-18 · 11:36 h (CET)] Moin, Maxim! We will release the completely new IMAP implementation that will have no bugs previously reported. In other words the new implementation will have brandnew bugs? – Cool! SCNR! ;-) Cheers! VA - -- Volker Ahrendt | q...@ahrendt.net Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana! Using /\^o^/\! 4.2.10.12 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 3. »The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.« – Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001), »Mostly Harmless« Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
[Reply to: »Stuart Cuddy« · 2009-09-18 · 14:53 h (CET)] Moin, Stuart! [IMAP rework] Simple question: when? Gives us some hope... Yes please. Simple answer: Next release[1]! Cheers! VA [1] Which is not interrupted by an unexpected bugfix release. - -- Volker Ahrendt | q...@ahrendt.net Direct eMail without [tbb] in subject line will end in Nirvana! Using /\^o^/\! 4.2.10.12 [Pro] on Windows XP [Pro] Service Pack 3. »Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.« Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001), »The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy« Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:02:48 +0200, Volker Ahrendt wrote: We will release the completely new IMAP implementation that will have no bugs previously reported. In other words the new implementation will have brandnew bugs? Cool! Yes, and when that finally happens the sole surviving Beta! tester will answer with: Up running. Arjan -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Robert, Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 8:44:54 PM, you wrote: The option I would use if I had to do it again would be to export the folder from The Bat! as a Unix mailbox file and do the move on the server side -- much faster than doing it via TB!. But I guess it is not really an option for you, since you were asking specifically about TB!. A variation of this solution (still not fast but at least reliable) would be to import this mbox file into Thunderbird and do the move from there. Thanks for your help, the idea of moving instead of copying and doing in batches hadn't occured to me. I wonder, though, what will happen if I move the mails and TB disconnects even within a batch, will some of the mails be lost? I will give it a try (after making a backup of the backup). I do have full server access and could do it that way, too. But just as exporting to Thunderbird, it has the disadvantage that message flags get los, as TB doesn't export them. -- Best regards, Carstenmailto:gutha...@gmail.com Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
MESSAGE LOSS (was: Upload to IMAP folder broken)
Hello Robert, You know what's funny: The Bat DOES continue uploaden the messages, but without showing it in the Connection Centre! I noticed this morning that a folder where the upload was aborted yesterday was suddenly filled. Trying your MOVE-method I just found out that after The Bat drops the IMAP connection the upload stops for a while. But as soon as it reconnects to the IMAP server for checking mail, the upload continues. Without the Connection Centre telling you! I just noticed by the decreasing message count of the folder I was moving from. Now here is the big drawback (and in fact a serious bug that should be fixed ASAP): Of a folder containing 610 messages, only 603 had arrived on the server! As I had MOVED the messages, 7 messages were lost. Some further testing showed that sometimes when The Bat drops the connection, it does delete the local message it was just uploading, even though it has not completely arrived at the server. So the server discards the half-uploaded message (which is correct) and The Bat deletes it also, even though it was not completely uploaded (which is a serious bug!). What a crappy implementation is this?! Imagine Windows moving files from one drive to another, suddenly stopping for no reason, then resuming in the background without telling you, and deleting some files even though they never arrive at the destination. And now the worst part: If this happened, Microsoft would fix it asap. However, I estimate the chances of this being fixed in The Bat within the next year at somewhere around 3%. -- Best regards, Carstenmailto:gutha...@gmail.com Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
On Thursday, September 17, 2009, 2:29:01 AM, Carsten Guthardt-Schulz wrote: I wonder, though, what will happen if I move the mails and TB disconnects even within a batch, will some of the mails be lost? I've never had a problem like that, but if it is a concern, you can always copy, then go back and delete, rather than just move. -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.2.10.12 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MESSAGE LOSS (was: Upload to IMAP folder broken)
Meanwhile I found out more about this: The Bat disconnects (claiming that the server ended the connection) whenever the message to be uploaded exceeds 2 MB. I checked the IMAP server for such a limit: There is none! Thunderbird uploads the bigger messages with no problem, it's TheBat that is broken. -- Best regards, Carstenmailto:gutha...@gmail.com Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MESSAGE LOSS (was: Upload to IMAP folder broken)
On Thursday, September 17, 2009, 7:04:09 AM, Carsten Guthardt-Schulz wrote: The Bat disconnects (claiming that the server ended the connection) whenever the message to be uploaded exceeds 2 MB. never had this happen to me. How can TB be broken because the server ends the connection? -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.2.10.12 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MESSAGE LOSS (was: Upload to IMAP folder broken)
Hello Dwight, Thursday, September 17, 2009, 2:25:23 PM, you wrote: never had this happen to me. How can TB be broken because the server ends the connection? As explained earlier in the thread: The server doesn't end the connection, TheBat just claims that that's the case. In reality, TheBat ends the connection (which is where it is broken), because - The ServerLog shows that the connection was terminated by the client - The Server doesn't have a 2 MB limit (this is not even possible with Dovecot) - Thunderbird works fine - Trying a different server (gmail.com) The Bat also claims that the server ended the connection. If you try to copy a message of 2 MB to an IMAP folder of your choice, does the upload work? There are actually 3 problems in TheBat that all come together here: 1) TB can't upload 2MB messages 2) Communication with the user is faulty (TB claiming that the server ended the connection; TB not showing in the connection center that it resumed uploading) 3) Message loss can occur, because if you choose MOVE then those messages 2MB get deleted from your local folder but not uploaded. 1 is a simple but annoying bug that can happen but should be fixed. 2 makes me doubt one thing that I previously appreciated: That TB actually tells the user what it does. 3 is a major problem, as messages can be lost unrecoverably. Can you also confirm 3? What happens if you move a message 2MB from a local folder to an IMAP folder? -- Best regards, Carstenmailto:gutha...@gmail.com Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MESSAGE LOSS (was: Upload to IMAP folder broken)
Hello Carsten, Thursday, September 17, 2009, 11:49:06 AM, you wrote: I estimate the chances of this being fixed in The Bat within the next year at somewhere around 3%. That's about 1000 times more generous than my estimate would be :) -- Best regards, Robert Tomanek mailto:tbb...@mail.robert.tomanek.org Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Carsten, Thursday, September 17, 2009, 9:29:01 AM, you wrote: I do have full server access and could do it that way, too. But just as exporting to Thunderbird, it has the disadvantage that message flags get los, as TB doesn't export them. Good catch. A very good one, indeed. -- Best regards, Robert Tomanek mailto:tbb...@mail.robert.tomanek.org Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MESSAGE LOSS (was: Upload to IMAP folder broken)
Hello Carsten, Thursday, September 17, 2009, 2:04:09 PM, you wrote: Meanwhile I found out more about this: The Bat disconnects (claiming that the server ended the connection) whenever the message to be uploaded exceeds 2 MB. I checked the IMAP server for such a limit: There is none! Thunderbird uploads the bigger messages with no problem, it's TheBat that is broken. I vaguely recall I had a similar problem. I had a different procedure at that time, though (if the message count after copy was not OK then I would discard the whole batch and start over). -- Best regards, Robertmailto:tbb...@mail.robert.tomanek.org Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MESSAGE LOSS (was: Upload to IMAP folder broken)
On Thursday, September 17, 2009, 9:12:43 AM, Carsten Guthardt-Schulz wrote: If you try to copy a message of 2 MB to an IMAP folder of your choice, does the upload work? I'm not sure what you are trying to do. I have no problem sending messages larger than that, and just successfully sent a 34MB message. I had no problem moving some large messages from one mailbox to another within my IMAP account (which doesn't make TB! do much). If youi mean that you cannot move messages from a local folder to an IMAP folder, I don't know why one would do that. My problem is keeping up with archiving so that I don't go beyond my limit at my IMAP account. (As far as I know, I have never lost a message when doing this.) -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.2.10.12 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hi, CGS Does anyone have any experiences with uploading to IMAP folders? Indeed I do. Recently, when I converted a bunch of local folders to remotly stored IMAP-folders for a client I ran into exactly the same problem. It seems to me that the problem isn't only volume-related, but timeout-related as well: Whenever a transfer takes longer than a certain time, TheBat chokes on it the way you describe. Of course, this tends to happen more often if there are many large messages involved. My workaround was to move the messages in small chunks, each about two minutes worth of transfer time. Such chunks were usually (not always) transfered all right, and afterwards even the connection to the server was still active so I could move the next chunk right away. As to expecting a fix for the IMAP bugs - I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Such fixes for the whole IMAP section have been promised for almost right now many times. Of course, voices such as see? they lied to us once again on hearing the rumors that the focus now is on windows system integration are not only speculative but also (to date) completely unfounded. -- MfG, Altomailto:a...@treadstone79.de The Bat! 4.2.10.1 Windows XP 5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 2 pgpNGJeRWMLz2.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Tbbeta, When I upload a certain number of messages to an IMAP folder I repeatedly get problems: - it's usually several hundred, in one case 10,000 messages - I have them in a local folder in The Bat and would like to move them to an IMAP account. The way to go is to select all messages, and then copy to folder. In theory this works, TB starts uploading them. However, after a few minutes it stops, TB saying Server closed connection. On the server side, looking at Dovecot's log, the IMAP server says Disconnect in APPEND, which means that the Client, aka TB, has terminated the connection. What now? I believe that TB closes the connection, as the upload works just fine with Thunderbird. Does anyone have any experiences with uploading to IMAP folders? -- Best regards, Carsten mailto:gutha...@gmail.com Current beta is 4.2.10.11 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Upload to IMAP folder broken
Hello Carsten, Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 7:55:29 PM, you wrote: What now? I believe that TB closes the connection, as the upload works just fine with Thunderbird. Does anyone have any experiences with uploading to IMAP folders? I do. The option I used was to first COPY the messages to a temporary local folder (so that nothing is lost in case something breaks) and then MOVE them from this temporary local folder to the actual IMAP folder -- the key thing here is to do it in (smallish) batches. Braindead, yes, but that's The Bat!'s IMAP support for you. The option I would use if I had to do it again would be to export the folder from The Bat! as a Unix mailbox file and do the move on the server side -- much faster than doing it via TB!. But I guess it is not really an option for you, since you were asking specifically about TB!. A variation of this solution (still not fast but at least reliable) would be to import this mbox file into Thunderbird and do the move from there. -- Best regards, Robert Tomanek mailto:tbb...@mail.robert.tomanek.org Current beta is 4.2.10.11 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
