entally
an architecture-dependent notion.
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s broken. I see changes of
this sort as defense against broken disks if nothing else.
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as possible, rather than to allocate
maximum-sized buffers, whose total size will be as big as possible?
I'm presumably missing something here, but what?
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different. To be better.
Except, of course, that (I assume) you don't think it _would_ be
better.
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> however, disklabel fails at >2TiB for 512 byte sector,
If _that_'s what you're concerned about, then just grow the relevant
fields (and, presumably, change the magic number).
Or fix sector sizes other than 512 bytes.
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The current state is a
rather ad-hoc mishmash of all three of the above, with all the issues
that inconsistency brings.
Personally, I don't like (1), because I find such tools too useful; I'm
not sure whether I prefer (2) or (3).
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ng since the late '70s, been making my living programming
and/or sysadminning since 1984. Been involved with UNIX as a user
since BSD 4.1c, with NetBSD since shortly before the split that led to
OpenBSD.
My portfolio? Look for "der Mouse" in mail-index.n.o's archives for my
past pr
the arguments presented.) Your
arguments are convincing, but what they are convincing me, for one, of
is not what you appear to want to convince people of.
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actual use" is, apparently, nothing but various wild
guesses at the actual proportion. Based on what I've seen in this
thread, it looks as though the use rate is around 1/2 (two users, two
non-users) - but, of course, that has no statistical validity; the
sample is ludicrously small and ent
anisms in place that would allow
tracking compat usage.
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paged-in executable continues to
work as long as it stays paged in even if its backing file is
destroyed; perhaps that's changed in -current.)
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t one let you corrupt the fs.
Depends on what operations are defined on such a descriptor, and how
they are implemented.
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[top-posting damage repaired manually]
>> If you can get a file desriptor to a symlink, it will work; I don't
>> think that we have a way to do this now.
> FYI - XNU has O_SYMLINK for this.
What operations does it support on fds open onto symlinks?
/~\ The ASCII
y names pointing to it, at
least not unless it's got no other references to it (in which case it
would be freed if it had no names).
Given the list of smart people I've seen discussing this, I'm
presumably just missing something, but what?
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ystems.
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those point in the same direction: close it iff CLOEXEC is
set on it.
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his?
Certainly. I would count that as "something capabilityish" - after
all, assuming it's per-process, in what ways, aside from the APIs used
to control it, does that differ from a capability?
Or, to return for a moment to my roots,
$ SET PROC/PRIV=FEXECVE
/~\ The ASCII
ibraries.
How does fexecve() make anything possible here that wasn't possible
before? It seems to me that updating .so libraries has always carried
this risk, so I must be missing something.
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> Here's a simple fexecve(2) implementation. Comments?
Strikes me as a very good thing to have optionally available.
I'd need to think a good deal more to decide whether I think it's a
reasonable thing to have enabled by default.
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ecause I was really talking about link(2), not ln(1).
I've since verified that changing 1 to 0 in the do_sys_link() call made
by sys_link() produces the old behaviour from ln without touching
userland, so it wasn't a kernel change required by a userland change.
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ans little.
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ography, and even then only those so sloppily
designed that they (a) have no fallback for systems that don't export a
strong random-number interface and (b) trust that interface to perform
up to its advertised design specs.
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> "Just get a 128GB RAM 32 core machine like me, and then you can use
> netbsd"
Hasn't that been NetBSD's stance since 2011-03-30? (Okay, it's an
exaggeration, but not all that much of an exaggeration.)
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what?
I would argue against the first one: just because something is being
misused is not, in itself, a reason to get rid of it entirely, at least
not when it still has good extant uses.
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other namespace. The _right_ fix, it seems to me, is to move network
interfaces into /dev (possibly in a subdirectory?), where they should
have been all along, and then use ln, ln -s, mv, whatever, there.
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's what the person actually doing the work
implements
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iptions.
Of course, this means special handling for a zero-length description,
or else that a zero-length description is different from no
description, but I think that is the lower price.
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is entirely
reasonable to speak of understanding the code's behaviour in many cases
when it is, formally, undefined.
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doesn't? It seems to me, from the lack of consensus I'm seeing
here, that that remains to be seen.
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do
what I want done.
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t in the code we had. I had
no way to tell whether this was simple version skew, bugs, or what, and
in any case had no idea what, if anything, could be done about it.
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ew
something additional the answer to that would be obvious?
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you hung out?
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he rest of
my life around that as first priority. If that's what you mean, then,
yes, probably nobody cares deeply about it. But I don't think I care
deeply about _anything_ in computers by that criterion.
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y contributions;
they certainly have in the last decade or two demosntrated a notable
lack of care about the things that attracted me to past NetBSD.
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gt; for convenience of language, design a SPARC ABI which is in some
>> ways similar to the Ultrix ABI for VAX, then use that to test
>> COMPAT_ULTRIX on SPARC.
But you say it's "[n]ot quite that". Could you explain the
difference(s) you see to me? I'm missing them.
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S that struggles to implement features of 2020 because of
> the burden from 1990.
Nice! Cogent, convincing, well-reasoned argument, that.
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something wrong that
showed up on native builds but not cross-builds? People got used to
thinking that because it cross-built, it was fine. It's one reason I
insist on self-hosting on all my machines.
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hat would it even mean to be compatible
with it?
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r, but still
human-scale.
> its sad to say that directly, but as businessman, NetBSD is not an
> option for now.
Then why are you here?
NetBSD is an option for at least two companies I know of.
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, just using (very)
different layers 1 and 2.
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son to avoid it except habit.
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ave two writes. What am I missing?
(The reading of val1 and val2 in the first case, and the calls to
ufetch_64 in the second case, may be switched, but that doesn't affect
the counts.)
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as even malloc(), never mind a kernel.
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enerate only ENOSPC
and EINVAL? Reading the source, or looking at documentation, or what?
In particular, if it's documentation, don't trust it too much; I've
seen documentation lie far too often.
Also, don't forget that successful calls normally don't touch errno,
though I _think_ that doesn't matter here.
setups like two I know of
for an embedded product where /sbin/init is not a normal init(8) and
/dev has only eight entries in one case or thirty in the other.
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urn the abstract return value in retval[0]
like most other syscalls that return a simple integer value, but for a
special case like this to have survived this long, I can't help feeling
there must be _something_ behind it.
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rrupt or
what is close to irrelevant; getting the bits into the kernel machinery
via mmap rather than write still provides both speed and latency
advantages - just not as much as if it were the hardware's output
buffer being mapped into user VM.
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h dividing the ring buffer size.
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one is arguing that programs should not be able to
work with pre-1970 times. The most I've seen anyone say is that time_t
need not be suitable for representing such times.
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you can get
much the same effect by making time_t a (positive) unsigned value and
redefining the epoch to be 1901-12-13 20:45:54 UTC.
But, if you're going to redefine the epoch, there are a whole lot of
options available.
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X
the
undecorated 64-bit type.
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what it's trying to defend against. I can easily imagine some uses,
but for the ones I've come up with so far, timing leaks are completely
irrelevant.)
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ome asymmetric crypto algorithms require nothing more complex than
large-number arithmetic. (Slow, yes, but not particularly complex.)
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ference between times is an interval, or duration, not a time,
> and should not be stored in a time_t, ever.
So, what type _should_ be used for it?
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_t, you can't
go before late 1901 even with full support for negative time_t anyway.)
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something else?
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n specifically told to" behaviour is
probably more useful than the documented (and actual) behaviour.
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MD, presumably the driver, has to be involved if
MSI is to be used.
And how can a driver do this without knowing whether it's supported?
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overwritten by garbage which happens to contain
reasonable-looking type and size values?
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ed
> BSD 4.3.
That's pretty much my own perspective on COMPAT_43. Probably should
have been called COMPAT_BSD43 or some such
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ngs like COMPAT_* and ddb, but
I suspect it may well be worth trying trimming it back. I don't know
what made the biggest difference for me, but I suspect it was the reams
and reams of drivers I knew I didn't need.
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powerful tools"? I haven't been following the state of
the art in open-source profiling tools.)
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echanisms, so perhaps it
doesn't entirely count.
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rything in between.)
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y enough that I wouldn't even bother checking if it were
me in that situation.
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erhaps one could help?
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>> I have recently been working on adding a new boot flag for disabling
>> ASLR during boot. [...useful for some userland stuff...]
What's wrong with just configuring a kernel without any ASLR at all for
such work?
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A
compiler that doesn't, whether because it's broken or because it takes
advantage of latitude in the languageg spec, simply is not suitable for
that use.
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is a fool's dream.
Programs such as undefined-behaviour detectors are tools to serve us,
not shackles to bind us. Intelligence should be applied when using
their results, including not expecting portability from inherently
nonportable code.
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ced.
Similarly, sets should depend on the main build.
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nteresting ways for full world builds if you run into a
> problem, cvs up and try an update build again.
I submit that, if that is the case, the build is already broken and you
just haven't yet tripped over a case that makes it unmistakeable.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ /
, principally NetBSD's.
I've got an inquiry in to Realtek, but past experiences with vendors
make me not too optimistic about getting help from that quarter.
Any pointers?
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less true of i2c.
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roduct. (Of course,
I'm sure there are lots of buses out there I've never heard of, or
don't know enough about.)
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for a loop more like
for (;timeout>0;timeout--).
Is the bug in the code? Or in my brain?
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it to
you? What I have is a commit in my based-at-5.2 src git tree. I can
extract diffs easily, or you can clone the git repo and look at the
commit (git://git.rodents-montreal.org/Mouse/netbsd-fork/5.2/src commit
3bc0da98f79eb0115f5c4992d7b42b6623ae7b78), or if you have something
else to su
rent CPU" tracepoint?
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oser to correct.
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e you can't do any of the usual post-fork
pre-exec prep).
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unshare(CLONE_VFORK) (which doesn't seem to exist).
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the above details; thoughts on the
general idea would also be interesting to me.)
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top a
> process from going just that.
Isn't the VAX pmap code in a position to reject attempts to allocate
virtual space it doesn't support?
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cal lookups are not based directly
on the userland address, the way they would be with a typical two-level
page table system (as I understand them), but rather they are ordinary
system->physical lookups based on the PTE's (system) virtual address.
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sn't
support rtVAXen, but I don't recall looking in detail.)
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icable to the version in question) for
all my kernels. I'm even slightly uncomfortable with BPF, though I
trust the verifier enough, and find the facility useful enough, that I
do keep that enabled.
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roll their own based on it.
But, if you want NetBSD to continue to serve the niche it appears to
have decided to carve out for itself, I think such changes would be in
exactly the wrong direction.
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ot;
choice, but it would be easy to do and could be useful for something
like using normally-sandboxed environments for running
known-non-malicious code.)
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e out in the
field that _some_ kind of mitigation measure is appropriate - but
workarounds should not be confused with fixes.
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stand the
other point of view.
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tre variants a CPU bug or
just a misfeature that makes sandboxing more difficult (in that it
provides unobvious ways to read memory).
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n't see why not - or, at least, I don't see the ksyms change as
being relevant. Just read /dev/ksyms at startup (at the same time as
you open /dev/kmem, probably), before dropping group kmem. Isn't that
all this change (making /dev/ksyms 440 root:kmem) requires?
/~\ The ASCII
same reasons I dislike kaslr, which
are fairly specific to my use aptterns.)
> Maybe group kmem read, but that might require more elevated
> privileges in the programs that uses ksyms.
What program uses ksyms now that doesn't require at least group kmem?
/~\ The ASCII
for description.
I have no particular authority here. I'm speculating based on what
I've seen people say and what seems likely to me.
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even vaguely appropriate to this list).
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