On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Eric Haszlakiewicz e...@nimenees.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 04:51:51PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 09:47:43AM -0600, Eric Haszlakiewicz wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 01:15:47PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18,
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 01:15:47PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 07:46:21AM +0200, Alan Barrett wrote:
Assuming that there's no need to handle fields with embedded spaces,
perl's split() function will DTRT.
No, it does not because there are fields that can be empty.
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 09:47:43AM -0600, Eric Haszlakiewicz wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 01:15:47PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 07:46:21AM +0200, Alan Barrett wrote:
Assuming that there's no need to handle fields with embedded spaces,
perl's split() function
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 04:51:51PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 09:47:43AM -0600, Eric Haszlakiewicz wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 01:15:47PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 07:46:21AM +0200, Alan Barrett wrote:
Assuming that there's no need to
At Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:27:53 +0200, Alan Barrett a...@cequrux.com wrote:
Subject: Re: language bindings (fs-independent quotas)
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
Assuming that there's no need to handle fields with embedded
spaces, perl's split() function will DTRT.
No, it does
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 06:45:01PM -0500, Julio Merino wrote:
| On 11/17/11 1:07 PM, David Young wrote:
| I do think that a binary plist format would be a handy option, however,
| a binary plist is not as useful by itself as an XML plist, because there
| less that you can do to it
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:55:32AM +, David Holland wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 05:29:22PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
I still believe proplib is better. For example, you can go from a
32bit to a 64bit uid_t/gid_t without versionning (in the data structure
it's still
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:35:34AM +, David Holland wrote:
With a proplib format, the kernel knows it didn't get the right
argument (it didn't find a key quotafile with a string value in the
dictionary). Of course you can still do quotaon /boot if you really
wants to, but then it
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 07:46:21AM +0200, Alan Barrett wrote:
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, David Holland wrote:
The proposed standard format for quotas is an ordinary columnar
text file. The reason language bindings came up is that Manuel was
complaining, somewhat oddly, that it's hard to handle these
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
Assuming that there's no need to handle fields with embedded
spaces, perl's split() function will DTRT.
No, it does not because there are fields that can be empty.
The common way of dealing with that is to have a placehloder like
- for empty fields.
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 04:27:53PM +0200, Alan Barrett wrote:
what are you trying to do ?
I am just trying to enable quotas so that I can test some of the
quota-related commands.
quotaon won't do anything if / doesn't have the userquota or
groupquota keyword in the fstab, and you have to
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:52:58PM -0500, James K. Lowden wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:56:09 +0100
Manuel Bouyer bou...@antioche.eu.org wrote:
The actual quotactl interface has a version number embeeded, for this
reason. But, for example, some fields can be added to the strucure
without
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:50:17 +0100
Manuel Bouyer bou...@antioche.eu.org wrote:
In this context, text format means a key/value pair format, in which
some keys are optionnal and values can be of arbitrary types. Maybe you can
do this with a binary format too, but it doesn't exists yet.
This
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:54:12AM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
3. There's already been some discussion of the compat issues in this
thread. Basically it boils down to: if you send a program material
that it's not expecting to receive, it won't be able to cope with it
and will
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 01:02:33PM +, David Holland wrote:
Neither is good enough if you're providing backwards compatibility;
An error is still better than a crash.
...and neither is acceptable for the quotactl system call, either in
the kernel processing it or in userlevel
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 03:51:52PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 01:02:33PM +, David Holland wrote:
Writing language bindings for a simple and straightforward library is
a simple and straightforward undertaking.
OK, so prove it by writing a perl binding format :)
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 03:51:52PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 01:02:33PM +, David Holland wrote:
Neither is good enough if you're providing backwards compatibility;
An error is still better than a crash.
...and neither is acceptable for the quotactl
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:47:01AM -0500, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
Here is my concern: I think syntax and semantics are being confused here
in a way that makes it likely we will have a false sense of security
about bugs that could crash the kernel (or lead to severe security
issues, etc).
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 05:10:24PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
With the old quotactl, the kernel has no way to tell if it really got a
string of a struct dqblk (or something else); it can just interpret the
pointer as a string and see if it works. If instead of a string it got
a dqblk whose
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 05:23:32PM +0100, Martin Husemann wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 05:10:24PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
With the old quotactl, the kernel has no way to tell if it really got a
string of a struct dqblk (or something else); it can just interpret the
pointer as a string
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 09:07:05AM -0600, Eric Haszlakiewicz wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 03:51:52PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 01:02:33PM +, David Holland wrote:
Writing language bindings for a simple and straightforward library is
a simple and
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:50:06AM -0600, David Young wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 09:07:05AM -0600, Eric Haszlakiewicz wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 03:51:52PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 01:02:33PM +, David Holland wrote:
Writing language bindings for a
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 05:22:24AM -0500, Matthew Mondor wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:50:17 +0100
Manuel Bouyer bou...@antioche.eu.org wrote:
In this context, text format means a key/value pair format, in which
some keys are optionnal and values can be of arbitrary types. Maybe you can
On 11/17/11 1:07 PM, David Young wrote:
I do think that a binary plist format would be a handy option, however,
a binary plist is not as useful by itself as an XML plist, because there
less that you can do to it without specialized tools.
This may be completely out of topic, but I just though
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 05:10:24PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
What am I missing?
the quotactl call has different commands, which takes different arguments.
For example, quotaon takes a string, while setquota takes a struct
describing the quotas to be set.
With the old quotactl, the
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 05:29:22PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
I still believe proplib is better. For example, you can go from a
32bit to a 64bit uid_t/gid_t without versionning (in the data structure
it's still integer/integer).
NO YOU CAN'T. Sorry for shouting, but this really annoys me.
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:50:06AM -0600, David Young wrote:
I don't think it matters whether it is simple and straightforward to
create a language binding or not.
The advantage to using some standard format for quotas, be it
tab-delimited tables or plists, is that if you know the
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, David Holland wrote:
The proposed standard format for quotas is an ordinary columnar
text file. The reason language bindings came up is that Manuel
was complaining, somewhat oddly, that it's hard to handle these
in Perl.
Assuming that there's no need to handle fields
On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:56:09 +0100
Manuel Bouyer bou...@antioche.eu.org wrote:
The actual quotactl interface has a version number embeeded, for this
reason. But, for example, some fields can be added to the strucure
without changing the version number. The consumer will just notice if
the new
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 01:48:17PM +, David Holland wrote:
3. There's already been some discussion of the compat issues in this
thread. Basically it boils down to: if you send a program material
that it's not expecting to receive, it won't be able to cope with it
and will
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:54:12AM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
An error is still better than a crash.
Why is a text-based format inherently less likely to cause a crash?
Do we expect NetBSD developers to be checking in handlers for
functionally equivalent binary formats that are *more* likely
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 01:39:10PM -0500, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:54:12AM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
An error is still better than a crash.
Why is a text-based format inherently less likely to cause a crash?
Because you use standard convertion functions,
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 07:42:18PM -0500, Mouse wrote:
The arguments that ufs_quota_entry (or whatever its name is) will be
good enough for any future filesystem is just not true.
You have asserted that.
I also explained why, I think.
Proof by repeated assertion is...unconvincing.
I
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 10:36:55PM +0100, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 05:14:30PM +, David Holland wrote:
[...]
3. Abolish the proplib-based transport encoding. Since it turns out
that the use of proplib for quotactl(2) is only to encode struct
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 05:14:30PM +, David Holland wrote:
[...]
3. Abolish the proplib-based transport encoding. Since it turns out
that the use of proplib for quotactl(2) is only to encode struct
ufs_quota_entry for transport across the user/kernel boundary,
The arguments that ufs_quota_entry (or whatever its name is) will be
good enough for any future filesystem is just not true.
You have asserted that.
Proof by repeated assertion is...unconvincing.
Not that I think nuermic IDs will be good forever. But, given the lack
of any _okther_
Hi,
On Nov,Friday 11 2011, at 1:59 PM, David Holland wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 05:14:30PM +, David Holland wrote:
The new discovery that struct ufs_quota_entry is meant to be
fs-independent changes the complexion of things quite a bit.
ok, so my poor choice of wording and/or
On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 01:28:18PM -0400, James K. Lowden wrote:
- We still need suggstions for better terminology than quota classes
and quota types.
Our last words on that subject were on 20 October:
right...
Two pairs that strike me as more mnemonic:
id,
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 05:14:30PM +, David Holland wrote:
The new discovery that struct ufs_quota_entry is meant to be
fs-independent changes the complexion of things quite a bit.
ok, so my poor choice of wording and/or bikeshedding burnout has
caused this thread to run down, except for
On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 12:43:57PM -0500, David Young wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 06:09:27PM +, David Holland wrote:
So, a few months back we got a new improved quota format for FFS.
[...]
All right, I give up.
ok, I have been asked by Important People(TM) to
On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:49:29AM -0400, Matthew Mondor wrote:
Unless someone suggests a good word for limited thing, maybe the best
option is to invent a term of art and *define* it to mean what you
want, after the manner of Humpty Dumpty. To that end I suggest
quotar or quoton.
On 29 October 2011 19:14, David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote:
Among other things, I've been told that XML-based user
interfaces are specifically prohibited by act of Core.
Yay \o/
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 17:14:30 +
David Holland dholland-t...@netbsd.org wrote:
I have been asked by Important People(TM) to resurrect this and
not just let it all go.
Chalk up one for the good guys!
- We still need suggstions for better terminology than quota classes
and quota types.
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 05:14:30PM +, David Holland wrote:
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 08:25:44AM +, David Holland wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 06:09:27PM +, David Holland wrote:
So, a few months back we got a new improved quota format for FFS.
[...]
All right, I
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 08:25:44AM +, David Holland wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 06:09:27PM +, David Holland wrote:
So, a few months back we got a new improved quota format for FFS.
[...]
All right, I give up.
ok, I have been asked by Important People(TM) to resurrect
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 06:09:27PM +, David Holland wrote:
So, a few months back we got a new improved quota format for FFS.
[...]
All right, I give up. Apparently the commandment Thou Shalt Not
Question the use of the Holy Proplib is more important to the
community than sanity,
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:03:25PM +0200, Michal Suchanek wrote:
By the same token you can say that the hierarchy starts at type
because block quota is different from file quota and only within the
same quota type the (class,id) pair is unique but that's all grafting
artifical hierarchy to a
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:35:51PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
Yes, but I don't need to create a new syscall, with the versionning
issues this has.
Instead you force every (userland) consumer to do compat code itself,
and replace a simple structure conversion via copying with error prone
this
(ufs is unix filesystems, isn't it ?)
On the few occasions when I've seen it expanded (usually in Sun
documentation - my impression is that the name came to BSD from Sun),
the U has been expanded to User.
However, regardless of the expansion, the name has come to refer to
what is perhaps more
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:45:02PM +0200, Martin Husemann wrote:
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:35:51PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
Yes, but I don't need to create a new syscall, with the versionning
issues this has.
Instead you force every (userland) consumer to do compat code itself,
and
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 01:40:01PM +0200, Michal Suchanek wrote:
On 21 October 2011 12:35, Manuel Bouyer bou...@antioche.eu.org wrote:
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:03:25PM +0200, Michal Suchanek wrote:
By the same token you can say that the hierarchy starts at type
because block quota is
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 02:54:59PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
I don't understand this. The compat code (if any) is in the kernel.
And there's a whole class of compat code (type size change, or adding an
optional field) don't exist with a text-based format.
If you promise to keep the contents
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 03:14:19PM +0200, Martin Husemann wrote:
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 02:54:59PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
I don't understand this. The compat code (if any) is in the kernel.
And there's a whole class of compat code (type size change, or adding an
optional field) don't
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 03:37:43PM +0200, Michal Suchanek wrote:
Except that tools not aware of the new value or wider id will now see
non-unique entries or wrong values due to conversion wrap. I don't
think even this is workable.
No, if there is an id that doesn't fit in 32bits they will get
Nor in the tree-based dictionnary, or in the multidimentionnal array.
No, in an array the unused locations do exist.
I don't understand this. If you have a 2-dimention array
quota[id][type], and quota[class=group] doesn't exist for this
filesytem, you have quota[class=group]=NULL and no
On 21 October 2011 15:48, Manuel Bouyer bou...@antioche.eu.org wrote:
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 03:37:43PM +0200, Michal Suchanek wrote:
Nor in the tree-based dictionnary, or in the multidimentionnal array.
No, in an array the unused locations do exist.
I don't understand this. If you have a
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 06:09:27PM +, David Holland wrote:
support to other filesystems (tempfs, perhaps v7fs) or even add other
filesystems that have or may have their own native quota handling
(zfs, Hammer, you name it).
zfs - does it really have quota?
All the demos I've seen talk
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:20:23PM +, David Holland wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 09:22:02PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
So, a few months back we got a new improved quota format for FFS.
Unfortunately, one of the side effects of this was to sprinkle
specific knowledge of the new
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 06:43:47AM +0200, Emmanuel Dreyfus wrote:
It seems to me that quotas are fundamentally a special-purpose
key/value store; that is, you look up quota information for a
particular thing (the key) and get back the quota settings and current
usage information (the
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 11:57:04AM +0200, Ignatios Souvatzis wrote:
support to other filesystems (tempfs, perhaps v7fs) or even add other
filesystems that have or may have their own native quota handling
(zfs, Hammer, you name it).
zfs - does it really have quota?
I don't know...
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 05:23:14PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
That's way more complicated than necessary. Think of it as like
VOP_READDIR - you get passed a position, you send back some number of
items, and update the position.
Depending on how the data are stored on disk, the
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 03:47:26PM +, David Holland wrote:
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 05:23:14PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
That's way more complicated than necessary. Think of it as like
VOP_READDIR - you get passed a position, you send back some number of
items, and update the
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 06:00:28PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
It's certainly less trouble to send back to userland the whole set of
data - especially if what userland wants is the whole set of data
(I can't see what a partial read of quota would be usefull for).
No, no it
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 04:39:21PM +, David Holland wrote:
We're talking a few MB of ram here, isn't it ? the kernel can certainly
allocate this without troubles (other subsystems do).
The proplib'd and XMLified complete dump for 50,000 users will
probably make a blob of between 10
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 05:35:16PM +, David Holland wrote:
I can't parse this, can you explain ? The tools needs to be aware of the
format to do something usefull with the data, isn't it ?
The tools can and should work with a filesystem-independent abstract
schema. This should be
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 06:54:54PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 04:39:21PM +, David Holland wrote:
We're talking a few MB of ram here, isn't it ? the kernel can certainly
allocate this without troubles (other subsystems do).
The proplib'd and XMLified
Ignatios Souvatzis i...@netbsd.org writes:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 06:09:27PM +, David Holland wrote:
support to other filesystems (tempfs, perhaps v7fs) or even add other
filesystems that have or may have their own native quota handling
(zfs, Hammer, you name it).
zfs - does it
So, a few months back we got a new improved quota format for FFS.
Unfortunately, one of the side effects of this was to sprinkle
specific knowledge of the new format through all the userlevel quota
tools and quota support logic. To be fair, this was alongside the
existing specific knowledge of the
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, David Holland wrote:
- the quota key is:
the quota *class*
the id
the quota *type*
- the quota value is:
the configured hard limit
the configured soft limit
the configured grace period
the current usage
the current
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 06:09:27PM +, David Holland wrote:
So, a few months back we got a new improved quota format for FFS.
Unfortunately, one of the side effects of this was to sprinkle
specific knowledge of the new format through all the userlevel quota
tools and quota support logic. To
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 09:22:02PM +0200, Manuel Bouyer wrote:
So, a few months back we got a new improved quota format for FFS.
Unfortunately, one of the side effects of this was to sprinkle
specific knowledge of the new format through all the userlevel quota
tools and quota support
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