subject:"Re\: system\-config\-date\?"

On 08/24/2018 01:34 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:

On Fri, 2018-08-24 at 12:00 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

You have to know the format of the zoneinfo directory for this to work.
Like start with Am to get American cities. Not start with H for
Helsinki; all you get is Hongkong and HST.

And you have to know a city in the list near where you are. Many times
my city is not included. Well we 'know' that San Diego and San
Francisco are in the same zone as Los_Angeles. But this is all stuff
you have to figure out for yourself when the list comes up. s-c-d is
very good at showing you a city near where you are looking for...

Mostly it works. There have been a few times I have been challenged and
had to look at my phone to confirm the timezone. Just a few. ;)

The zoneinfo/tzdata database is not formatted for human use. The way it
was explained to me one time, the basic principle is that an entry is
added to it any time some kind of new timezone definition or DST
variation or something happens, associated with the largest or most
prominent city related to that event, and these entries are never
removed (so the database acts as a record of *historical* as well as
*current* timezone variations).

This is basically why it has such an apparently-quixotic set of cities
in it, and explains a lot of the "why X but not Y?" questions -
basically because X at *some* point did something which was not yet
recorded in the zoneinfo database, but Y never did.

IMBW, that's just my memory of how it was explained to me. But
basically, it's *not* a big list of Cities You Might Possibly Know
About and the timezones they're currently in, but it looks sufficiently
*like* one that GUI apps often just take its city list and let you
search it, or something like that.

AIUI again, the way GNOME does it better is using libgweather:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libgweather

which has a gigantic database mapping cities (and other 'locations',
like airports and stuff) to tzdata timezones. That's why you can look
up just about anywhere in GNOME and find the time there, or set your
time for that place:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libgweather/tree/master/data

I don't know how heavy libgweather's deps are, but it'd probably be a
good idea for KDE and Xfce to consider using it to do something similar
to GNOME, or perhaps for the data to be split out if libgweather's deps
are inappropriately heavy just for this purpose...
Which is probably why Menominee, MI is in from back when the Michigan
Upper Peninsula was split between Eastern and Central. Menominee is west
of Gary Indiana and it was pretty bad up there during double daylight
days. I remember the news, including the children hit by cars in the
dark on their way to school.

Anyway, Adam, thanks for the historical reference. I have forwarded
this missive to the Xfce list and see what comes of it. At times I
think about where I left coding and what I might be contributing today
if I did code. Never learned C; only exposed to B on Honeywells. Lots
of years ago.

Back to my testing of EDDSA certs.

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Re: system-config-date?

2018-08-24 Thread Adam Williamson

On Fri, 2018-08-24 at 12:00 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> 
> You have to know the format of the zoneinfo directory for this to work.  
> Like start with Am to get American cities.  Not start with H for 
> Helsinki; all you get is Hongkong and HST.
> 
> And you have to know a city in the list near where you are.  Many times 
> my city is not included.  Well we 'know' that San Diego and San 
> Francisco are in the same zone as Los_Angeles.  But this is all stuff 
> you have to figure out for yourself when the list comes up. s-c-d is 
> very good at showing you a city near where you are looking for...
> 
> Mostly it works.  There have been a few times I have been challenged and 
> had to look at my phone to confirm the timezone.  Just a few. ;)

The zoneinfo/tzdata database is not formatted for human use. The way it
was explained to me one time, the basic principle is that an entry is
added to it any time some kind of new timezone definition or DST
variation or something happens, associated with the largest or most
prominent city related to that event, and these entries are never
removed (so the database acts as a record of *historical* as well as
*current* timezone variations).

This is basically why it has such an apparently-quixotic set of cities
in it, and explains a lot of the "why X but not Y?" questions -
basically because X at *some* point did something which was not yet
recorded in the zoneinfo database, but Y never did.

IMBW, that's just my memory of how it was explained to me. But
basically, it's *not* a big list of Cities You Might Possibly Know
About and the timezones they're currently in, but it looks sufficiently
*like* one that GUI apps often just take its city list and let you
search it, or something like that.

AIUI again, the way GNOME does it better is using libgweather:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libgweather

which has a gigantic database mapping cities (and other 'locations',
like airports and stuff) to tzdata timezones. That's why you can look
up just about anywhere in GNOME and find the time there, or set your
time for that place:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libgweather/tree/master/data

I don't know how heavy libgweather's deps are, but it'd probably be a
good idea for KDE and Xfce to consider using it to do something similar
to GNOME, or perhaps for the data to be split out if libgweather's deps
are inappropriately heavy just for this purpose...
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
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Re: system-config-date?

On 08/24/2018 11:44 AM, Jon Ingason wrote:

Den 2018-08-24 kl. 16:46, skrev Ed Greshko:

On 08/24/18 22:32, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

On 08/24/2018 10:16 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/24/18 21:44, Gerald Henriksen wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:40:13 +0800, you wrote:

Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki timezone"
learn it
is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3. So, I would do "timedatectl
set-timezone Etc/GMT-3". I could not find a way to do that in the KDE GUI.
Yet it
does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.

Easiest way is right-click on the time in the task bar, Ajust Date and
Time, Time zones, and type in Helsinki. Benefit of this method is
essentaily the same process works on Windows or macOS so it is a
consistent method instead of hunting through system settings.

That is one way. But it seemed to me that the OP was also concerned about
landing in
a city that didn't exist in the list and not knowing what city in the
list was close to where he happens to be.

My comment was to highlight that there seems to be no way in the KDE GUI to
specify a
GMT offset.

Anyway, as the old saying goes, there is more ways than one to skin a
cat...especially in linux. Considering my background and length of service I
gravitate
towards command lines than GUI if at all possible.

And I earlier posted the tzupdate process that uses geolocation from your IP
address to set your timezone:

pip install -U tzupdate

But often this does not work with the IETF network as every meeting we have the
same address block in a different country, and someone is not making the geoloc
update. The NOC tries to get this done during setup, but they don't always get
the
cooperation from the host provider that they need. Thus we were in Singapore
with
the geoloc at first saying we were still in Prague. It was fixed by Tuesday of
the
meeting (or there abouts).

I wonder how this would work with the airlines gogo wifi? :)

Of course it won't work very well. If you're flying Delta your gateway address
exposed to the world (assuming IPv4) would probably put you in Atlanta no matter
where your plane is.

All of this is why I just ask the hotel clerk: What time is it? OK, I also
ask:
Where am I?

This not so difficult as you might think.

Click on clock with right button and choose "Properties". Then get a
window where the timezone is empty. All you need to do is to start with
a capital letter. If you are for instance in Europe all you need know is
in which country you are and know the capital of that country. I you are
in Finland you probably known that Helsinki is capital of Finland. You
type "Europe" and then you get list of capitals in Europe. There are
some exceptions so you can see all timezone in "/usr/share/zoneinfo".

I have tested this on vm with Xfce desktop and it works.

You have to know the format of the zoneinfo directory for this to work.
Like start with Am to get American cities. Not start with H for
Helsinki; all you get is Hongkong and HST.

Mostly it works. There have been a few times I have been challenged and
had to look at my phone to confirm the timezone. Just a few. ;)

Re: system-config-date?

2018-08-24 Thread Jon Ingason

Den 2018-08-24 kl. 16:46, skrev Ed Greshko:
> On 08/24/18 22:32, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 08/24/2018 10:16 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>>> On 08/24/18 21:44, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
 On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:40:13 +0800, you wrote:

> Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki 
> timezone"
> learn it
> is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3.  So, I would do 
> "timedatectl
> set-timezone Etc/GMT-3".  I could not find a way to do that in the KDE 
> GUI.  Yet it
> does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.
 Easiest way is right-click on the time in the task bar, Ajust Date and
 Time, Time zones, and type in Helsinki.  Benefit of this method is
 essentaily the same process works on Windows or macOS so it is a
 consistent method instead of hunting through system settings.
>>> That is one way.  But it seemed to me that the OP was also concerned about 
>>> landing in
>>> a city that didn't exist in the list and not knowing what city in the
>>> list was close to where he happens to be.
>>>
>>> My comment was to highlight that there seems to be no way in the KDE GUI to 
>>> specify a
>>> GMT offset.
>>>
>>> Anyway, as the old saying goes, there is more ways than one to skin a
>>> cat...especially in linux.  Considering my background and length of service 
>>> I
>>> gravitate
>>> towards command lines than GUI if at all possible.
>>
>> And I earlier posted the tzupdate process that uses geolocation from your IP
>> address to set your timezone:
>>
>> pip install -U tzupdate
>>
>> But often this does not work with the IETF network as every meeting we have 
>> the
>> same address block in a different country, and someone is not making the 
>> geoloc
>> update.  The NOC tries to get this done during setup, but they don't always 
>> get the
>> cooperation from the host provider that they need.  Thus we were in 
>> Singapore with
>> the geoloc at first saying we were still in Prague.  It was fixed by Tuesday 
>> of the
>> meeting (or there abouts).
>>
>> I wonder how this would work with the airlines gogo wifi?  :)
> 
> Of course it won't work very well.  If you're flying Delta your gateway 
> address
> exposed to the world (assuming IPv4) would probably put you in Atlanta no 
> matter
> where your plane is.
> 
> All of this is why I just ask the hotel clerk:  What time is it?    OK, I 
> also ask:
> Where am I?
> 

This not so difficult as you might think.

Click on clock with right button and choose "Properties". Then get a
window where the timezone is empty. All you need to do is to start with
a capital letter. If you are for instance in Europe all you need know is
in which country you are and know the capital of that country. I you are
in Finland you probably known that Helsinki is capital of Finland. You
type "Europe" and then you get list of capitals in Europe. There are
some exceptions so you can see all timezone in "/usr/share/zoneinfo".

I have tested this on vm with Xfce desktop and it works.


-- 
Regards

Jon Ingason
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Re: system-config-date?

2018-08-24 Thread Ed Greshko

On 08/24/18 22:32, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>
> On 08/24/2018 10:16 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> On 08/24/18 21:44, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:40:13 +0800, you wrote:
>>>
 Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki timezone"
 learn it
 is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3.  So, I would do 
 "timedatectl
 set-timezone Etc/GMT-3".  I could not find a way to do that in the KDE 
 GUI.  Yet it
 does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.
>>> Easiest way is right-click on the time in the task bar, Ajust Date and
>>> Time, Time zones, and type in Helsinki.  Benefit of this method is
>>> essentaily the same process works on Windows or macOS so it is a
>>> consistent method instead of hunting through system settings.
>> That is one way.  But it seemed to me that the OP was also concerned about 
>> landing in
>> a city that didn't exist in the list and not knowing what city in the
>> list was close to where he happens to be.
>>
>> My comment was to highlight that there seems to be no way in the KDE GUI to 
>> specify a
>> GMT offset.
>>
>> Anyway, as the old saying goes, there is more ways than one to skin a
>> cat...especially in linux.  Considering my background and length of service I
>> gravitate
>> towards command lines than GUI if at all possible.
>
> And I earlier posted the tzupdate process that uses geolocation from your IP
> address to set your timezone:
>
> pip install -U tzupdate
>
> But often this does not work with the IETF network as every meeting we have 
> the
> same address block in a different country, and someone is not making the 
> geoloc
> update.  The NOC tries to get this done during setup, but they don't always 
> get the
> cooperation from the host provider that they need.  Thus we were in Singapore 
> with
> the geoloc at first saying we were still in Prague.  It was fixed by Tuesday 
> of the
> meeting (or there abouts).
>
> I wonder how this would work with the airlines gogo wifi?  :)

Of course it won't work very well.  If you're flying Delta your gateway address
exposed to the world (assuming IPv4) would probably put you in Atlanta no matter
where your plane is.

All of this is why I just ask the hotel clerk:  What time is it?    OK, I also 
ask:
Where am I?


-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



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Re: system-config-date?




On 08/24/2018 10:16 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/24/18 21:44, Gerald Henriksen wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:40:13 +0800, you wrote:


Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki timezone" 
learn it
is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3.  So, I would do "timedatectl
set-timezone Etc/GMT-3".  I could not find a way to do that in the KDE GUI.  
Yet it
does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.

Easiest way is right-click on the time in the task bar, Ajust Date and
Time, Time zones, and type in Helsinki.  Benefit of this method is
essentaily the same process works on Windows or macOS so it is a
consistent method instead of hunting through system settings.

That is one way.  But it seemed to me that the OP was also concerned about 
landing in
a city that didn't exist in the list and not knowing what city in the
list was close to where he happens to be.

My comment was to highlight that there seems to be no way in the KDE GUI to 
specify a
GMT offset.

Anyway, as the old saying goes, there is more ways than one to skin a
cat...especially in linux.  Considering my background and length of service I 
gravitate
towards command lines than GUI if at all possible.


And I earlier posted the tzupdate process that uses geolocation from 
your IP address to set your timezone:


pip install -U tzupdate

But often this does not work with the IETF network as every meeting we 
have the same address block in a different country, and someone is not 
making the geoloc update.  The NOC tries to get this done during setup, 
but they don't always get the cooperation from the host provider that 
they need.  Thus we were in Singapore with the geoloc at first saying we 
were still in Prague.  It was fixed by Tuesday of the meeting (or there 
abouts).


I wonder how this would work with the airlines gogo wifi?  :)



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Re: system-config-date?

2018-08-24 Thread Ed Greshko

On 08/24/18 21:44, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:40:13 +0800, you wrote:
>
>> Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki timezone" 
>> learn it
>> is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3.  So, I would do 
>> "timedatectl
>> set-timezone Etc/GMT-3".  I could not find a way to do that in the KDE GUI.  
>> Yet it
>> does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.
> Easiest way is right-click on the time in the task bar, Ajust Date and
> Time, Time zones, and type in Helsinki.  Benefit of this method is
> essentaily the same process works on Windows or macOS so it is a
> consistent method instead of hunting through system settings.

That is one way.  But it seemed to me that the OP was also concerned about 
landing in
a city that didn't exist in the list and not knowing what city in the
list was close to where he happens to be.

My comment was to highlight that there seems to be no way in the KDE GUI to 
specify a
GMT offset.

Anyway, as the old saying goes, there is more ways than one to skin a
cat...especially in linux.  Considering my background and length of service I 
gravitate
towards command lines than GUI if at all possible.

-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



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Re: system-config-date?




On 08/24/2018 09:44 AM, Gerald Henriksen wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:40:13 +0800, you wrote:


Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki timezone" 
learn it
is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3.  So, I would do "timedatectl
set-timezone Etc/GMT-3".  I could not find a way to do that in the KDE GUI.  
Yet it
does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.

Easiest way is right-click on the time in the task bar, Ajust Date and
Time, Time zones, and type in Helsinki.  Benefit of this method is
essentaily the same process works on Windows or macOS so it is a
consistent method instead of hunting through system settings.


Which desktop is this on?  With Xfce, and its Clock applet, I have to 
type in the city/region.  It use to prompt along with what I am writing, 
but is not right now.


This is the challenge.  The OS is stepping away from features considered 
desktop items and each desktop environment is handling it a little 
differently (or not at all).


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Re: system-config-date?

2018-08-24 Thread Gerald Henriksen

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:40:13 +0800, you wrote:

>Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki timezone" 
>learn it
>is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3.  So, I would do "timedatectl
>set-timezone Etc/GMT-3".  I could not find a way to do that in the KDE GUI.  
>Yet it
>does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.

Easiest way is right-click on the time in the task bar, Ajust Date and
Time, Time zones, and type in Helsinki.  Benefit of this method is
essentaily the same process works on Windows or macOS so it is a
consistent method instead of hunting through system settings.
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Re: system-config-date?

2018-08-23 Thread Adam Williamson

On Thu, 2018-08-23 at 07:00 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?

https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/system-config-date/c/876438de1c42f10815081853775b4aa555def56e?branch=master

"Package not actively developed anymore."

(Note: I believe Nils was the developer of the app as well as the
packager).

As mentioned by other responders, the ancient system-config-* tools in
general are being / have been retired, with the intent that desktops
should provide replacement functionality. At least GNOME and KDE
usually do.

(Note that as well as being Python 2-only, s-c-d was also GTK+ 2 only.
Porting it to Python 3 *and* GTK+ 3 would've been rather an effort.)
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
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Re: system-config-date?




On 08/23/2018 11:32 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/23/18 23:05, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Actually, I typically set my timezone for my destination while in the air so 
that
the emails I am writing and will send as soon as I am connected show that I am
where I said I would be.  So I COULD google before I leave.  I am just 
comfortable
using the GUI for this item.


The reason I stopped changing my time zone on my laptop is that in reality the 
email
app displays all Dates/Times relative to my settings.  Typically, to where I 
am. And,
like I said, I rely on my phone telling me the time and sounding alarms.

So, even though your message shows a raw Date of Thu, 23 Aug 2018 11:05:03 
-0400 I
see it as Thu, 23 Aug 2018 23:05 because I'm in Taiwan and have my settings for
Taiwan.  If you move it matters not to me if you change your settings or not.  
I will
still see it in the time frame of how I have defined my settings.  (Assuming of
course your settings are accurate)  My reality will be skewed if I move to a
different time zone but don't adjust my settings.  Yet, as displayed in 
Thunderbird,
things would still be chronologically sorted correctly.


plus there is the tzupdate app.  I do wonder how that would work on a 
plane's wifi?  :)


pip install -U tzupdate

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Re: system-config-date?

On 08/23/18 23:05, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> Actually, I typically set my timezone for my destination while in the air so 
> that
> the emails I am writing and will send as soon as I am connected show that I am
> where I said I would be.  So I COULD google before I leave.  I am just 
> comfortable
> using the GUI for this item.


The reason I stopped changing my time zone on my laptop is that in reality the 
email
app displays all Dates/Times relative to my settings.  Typically, to where I 
am. And,
like I said, I rely on my phone telling me the time and sounding alarms.

So, even though your message shows a raw Date of Thu, 23 Aug 2018 11:05:03 
-0400 I
see it as Thu, 23 Aug 2018 23:05 because I'm in Taiwan and have my settings for
Taiwan.  If you move it matters not to me if you change your settings or not.  
I will
still see it in the time frame of how I have defined my settings.  (Assuming of
course your settings are accurate)  My reality will be skewed if I move to a
different time zone but don't adjust my settings.  Yet, as displayed in 
Thunderbird,
things would still be chronologically sorted correctly.

-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



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Re: system-config-date?




On 08/23/2018 09:33 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/23/18 21:23, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/23/18 20:06, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

On 08/23/2018 07:42 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/23/18 19:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?

I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit too long 
and
jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it in the Fedora 29 
beta.
See my bug report: 1583850

BTW, I am using the Xfce desktop.

Would using timedatectl from the command line be sufficient for you?

No.

We had this discussion on the Fedora users list.

I land in Helsinki, and have to figure out what to put in the command line?

I am in the Michigan Upper peninsula vacationing.  None of the cities are 
listed,
but where is the timezone line?  Am I still in Eastern or crossed to Central.
Indiana also spans zones.  Cell phone does help some on this and I can fake it.

I do use the command line on my servers.  See my Centos-arm howto a:

http://www.htt-consult.com/Centos7-armv7.html

But for my notebooks that travel to various parts of the world with me, a GUI is
great improvement over guess work.

I will be testing a F29-arm build perhaps today or tomorrow.  I will try 
installing
the F25 noarch rpm and see if it works.



Oh, OK.  I've done quite a bit of travel as well.  When I arrive at my 
destination
I'd just set my TZ to a UTC/+- based on what time the hotel clerk told me it 
was.  I
grew to hate letter designation for time zones as Taiwan calls theirs CST and 
when I
would travel to Minneapolis it would also be CST.  Confused the hell out of some
folks I communicate with.  :-)


I meant to say "set my TZ to a city with a UTC/+- based on what time...".  And 
I knew
where I was going to end up so I was prepared before leaving.

Anyway, these days I don't bother changing my laptop's time settings.  I just 
leave
it on Taiwan time.  I rely on my mobile phone for the correct local time which 
gets
set by the network provider.

Hope the F25 rpm works for you.


It works in F28.  I will test in F29, and now since rawhide is split for 
F30, I could even test with that.


So there may be some life left in the old code while I work on matters 
in Xfce.  There is actually old work there, but was dropped as there was 
an alternative.  Namely system-config-date!


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Re: system-config-date?




On 08/23/2018 10:40 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/23/18 22:09, Gerald Henriksen wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 08:06:18 -0400, you wrote:


On 08/23/2018 07:42 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/23/18 19:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?

I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit too long 
and
jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it in the Fedora 29 
beta.
See my bug report: 1583850

BTW, I am using the Xfce desktop.

Would using timedatectl from the command line be sufficient for you?

No.

We had this discussion on the Fedora users list.

I land in Helsinki, and have to figure out what to put in the command line?

It's not really a base OS issue, it is functionality that should be
part of the desktop environment (as it is at least with KDE).

FWIW, as a KDE user I'm not a fan of the changes made in settings since KDE3.  I
recall KDE3 being a bit more flexible when it comes to locale settings.

Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki timezone" 
learn it
is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3.  So, I would do "timedatectl
set-timezone Etc/GMT-3".  I could not find a way to do that in the KDE GUI.  
Yet it
does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.


Actually, I typically set my timezone for my destination while in the 
air so that the emails I am writing and will send as soon as I am 
connected show that I am where I said I would be.  So I COULD google 
before I leave.  I am just comfortable using the GUI for this item.


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Re: system-config-date?

On 08/23/18 21:23, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 08/23/18 20:06, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>
>> On 08/23/2018 07:42 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>>> On 08/23/18 19:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
 Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?

 I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit too 
 long and
 jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it in the Fedora 
 29 beta.
 See my bug report: 1583850

 BTW, I am using the Xfce desktop.
>>> Would using timedatectl from the command line be sufficient for you?
>> No.
>>
>> We had this discussion on the Fedora users list.
>>
>> I land in Helsinki, and have to figure out what to put in the command line?
>>
>> I am in the Michigan Upper peninsula vacationing.  None of the cities are 
>> listed,
>> but where is the timezone line?  Am I still in Eastern or crossed to 
>> Central. 
>> Indiana also spans zones.  Cell phone does help some on this and I can fake 
>> it.
>>
>> I do use the command line on my servers.  See my Centos-arm howto a:
>>
>> http://www.htt-consult.com/Centos7-armv7.html
>>
>> But for my notebooks that travel to various parts of the world with me, a 
>> GUI is
>> great improvement over guess work.
>>
>> I will be testing a F29-arm build perhaps today or tomorrow.  I will try 
>> installing
>> the F25 noarch rpm and see if it works.
>>
>>
> Oh, OK.  I've done quite a bit of travel as well.  When I arrive at my 
> destination
> I'd just set my TZ to a UTC/+- based on what time the hotel clerk told me it 
> was.  I
> grew to hate letter designation for time zones as Taiwan calls theirs CST and 
> when I
> would travel to Minneapolis it would also be CST.  Confused the hell out of 
> some
> folks I communicate with.  :-)
>
I meant to say "set my TZ to a city with a UTC/+- based on what time...".  And 
I knew
where I was going to end up so I was prepared before leaving.

Anyway, these days I don't bother changing my laptop's time settings.  I just 
leave
it on Taiwan time.  I rely on my mobile phone for the correct local time which 
gets
set by the network provider.

Hope the F25 rpm works for you.


-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



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Re: system-config-date?

On 08/23/18 22:09, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 08:06:18 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>
>> On 08/23/2018 07:42 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>>> On 08/23/18 19:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
 Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?

 I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit too 
 long and
 jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it in the Fedora 
 29 beta.
 See my bug report: 1583850

 BTW, I am using the Xfce desktop.
>>> Would using timedatectl from the command line be sufficient for you?
>> No.
>>
>> We had this discussion on the Fedora users list.
>>
>> I land in Helsinki, and have to figure out what to put in the command line?
> It's not really a base OS issue, it is functionality that should be
> part of the desktop environment (as it is at least with KDE).

FWIW, as a KDE user I'm not a fan of the changes made in settings since KDE3.  I
recall KDE3 being a bit more flexible when it comes to locale settings. 

Anyway, were I to land in Helsinki today I would google "helsinki timezone" 
learn it
is currently "summer time" there and it is GMT+3.  So, I would do "timedatectl
set-timezone Etc/GMT-3".  I could not find a way to do that in the KDE GUI.  
Yet it
does show up in the GUI after I set it in that manner.

-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



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Re: system-config-date?




On 08/23/2018 10:17 AM, Gerald Henriksen wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 07:00:59 -0400, you wrote:


Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?

I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit
too long and jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it
in the Fedora 29 beta.  See my bug report: 1583850

Looking at the bug report, big problem is that it is Python2 which is
in the process of being phased out given upstream ending support in
2020.  So even if it wasn't better in the desktop environment it would
need to be modified / rewritten to use Python3.


Good to know.  So it was a cognitive decision.  Oh sorts.

I will push the Xfce people some more on this, as it is a desktop issue.

There was actual interest in doing it.  I will have to test out the F29 
environment.


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Re: system-config-date?

2018-08-23 Thread Gerald Henriksen

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 07:00:59 -0400, you wrote:

>Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?
>
>I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit 
>too long and jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it 
>in the Fedora 29 beta.  See my bug report: 1583850

Looking at the bug report, big problem is that it is Python2 which is
in the process of being phased out given upstream ending support in
2020.  So even if it wasn't better in the desktop environment it would
need to be modified / rewritten to use Python3.
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Re: system-config-date?

2018-08-23 Thread Gerald Henriksen

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 08:06:18 -0400, you wrote:

>
>
>On 08/23/2018 07:42 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> On 08/23/18 19:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?
>>>
>>> I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit too 
>>> long and
>>> jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it in the Fedora 
>>> 29 beta.
>>> See my bug report: 1583850
>>>
>>> BTW, I am using the Xfce desktop.
>>
>> Would using timedatectl from the command line be sufficient for you?
>
>No.
>
>We had this discussion on the Fedora users list.
>
>I land in Helsinki, and have to figure out what to put in the command line?

It's not really a base OS issue, it is functionality that should be
part of the desktop environment (as it is at least with KDE).
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Re: system-config-date?

On 08/23/18 21:33, Ed Greshko wrote:
> Hope the F25 rpm works for you.


Oh, since it has been a long time since I changed my laptop's time zone, I just
recalled I would change it to Etc/GMT(+-)whatever so as not to care about the 
city.

-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



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Re: system-config-date?

On 08/23/18 20:06, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>
> On 08/23/2018 07:42 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> On 08/23/18 19:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?
>>>
>>> I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit too 
>>> long and
>>> jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it in the Fedora 
>>> 29 beta.
>>> See my bug report: 1583850
>>>
>>> BTW, I am using the Xfce desktop.
>>
>> Would using timedatectl from the command line be sufficient for you?
>
> No.
>
> We had this discussion on the Fedora users list.
>
> I land in Helsinki, and have to figure out what to put in the command line?
>
> I am in the Michigan Upper peninsula vacationing.  None of the cities are 
> listed,
> but where is the timezone line?  Am I still in Eastern or crossed to Central. 
> Indiana also spans zones.  Cell phone does help some on this and I can fake 
> it.
>
> I do use the command line on my servers.  See my Centos-arm howto a:
>
> http://www.htt-consult.com/Centos7-armv7.html
>
> But for my notebooks that travel to various parts of the world with me, a GUI 
> is
> great improvement over guess work.
>
> I will be testing a F29-arm build perhaps today or tomorrow.  I will try 
> installing
> the F25 noarch rpm and see if it works.
>
>
Oh, OK.  I've done quite a bit of travel as well.  When I arrive at my 
destination
I'd just set my TZ to a UTC/+- based on what time the hotel clerk told me it 
was.  I
grew to hate letter designation for time zones as Taiwan calls theirs CST and 
when I
would travel to Minneapolis it would also be CST.  Confused the hell out of some
folks I communicate with.  :-)

-- 
Conjecture is just a conclusion based on incomplete information. It isn't a 
fact.



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Re: system-config-date?




On 08/23/2018 07:42 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 08/23/18 19:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Is there some reason this was dropped from Fedora?

I had it up to Fedora 24, and see it was in 25.  I stayed on 24 a bit too long 
and
jumped to 28 and no system-config-date, and I do not see it in the Fedora 29 
beta.
See my bug report: 1583850

BTW, I am using the Xfce desktop.


Would using timedatectl from the command line be sufficient for you?


No.

We had this discussion on the Fedora users list.

I land in Helsinki, and have to figure out what to put in the command line?

I am in the Michigan Upper peninsula vacationing.  None of the cities 
are listed, but where is the timezone line?  Am I still in Eastern or 
crossed to Central.  Indiana also spans zones.  Cell phone does help 
some on this and I can fake it.


I do use the command line on my servers.  See my Centos-arm howto a:

http://www.htt-consult.com/Centos7-armv7.html

But for my notebooks that travel to various parts of the world with me, 
a GUI is great improvement over guess work.


I will be testing a F29-arm build perhaps today or tomorrow.  I will try 
installing the F25 noarch rpm and see if it works.


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Re: system-config-date?